Tools & Fabrication - After 85 years of USA Made, Craftsman hand tools now Chinese

I did a search and didnt notice any mention of this, so I figured I should post up. Apparently Craftsman hand tools are switching to Chinese manufacture.

http://garagejournal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=153020&d=1322365826

I found out yesterday from a tool forum. I know they have been selling imported supplies and larger items for years, but the hand tool line has been synonymous with Made in USA, and since they have other tool lines, I never thought they would ruin the Craftsman line.

To me this undercuts what I have spent decades buying into as part of their warranty, as they will no longer be able to back up the products I've bought with an acceptable replacement.

Its also very underhanded how they plan to take advantage of everyones assumption that Craftsman = USA. They have apparently been subtly removing Made in USA off packaging on US made tools so that as the switch rolls out, it will be even harder to notice. The tools will come in the same basic shape (although as the link below shows, thicker to make up for lesser quality steel, rougher finishing quality and less gear lube), with the same packaging part numbers and price. It doesnt look to be stamped with its new country of origin, they just removed the USA and leave you to assume its the same tool you have been buying for 85 years.

Just thought everyone should know. To me, its an absolute deal breaker. I only support American made tools.

For more pix/info:
http://garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=126875

With the economy the way it is this was bound to happen. Sell it for full original price and make it for pennies on the dollar. So sad, even some Matco and Snap on tools are made over seas. I'm a Diesel mechanic and stopped wasting my money after i saw some of my high end tools having made in taiwan labels. Its bull. but as a society we'll still keep buying them just like the high priced gas, cars and houses.

I havent fully checked this site out yet, but it came up on another forum, providing a list of USA tool manufacturers:
http://www.stillmadeinusa.com/tools.html


And for contacting customer service at Craftsman:
http://www.craftsman.com/shc/s/nb_10155_12602_NB_CScontactus

Havent bought anything craftsman in several years.... graduated to Snap On Mac and and some Matco...

I do know that the craftsman "evolve" series are made in china. If craftsman are going this route why not buy harbor freight as they too have a lifetime warranty. I might have to stop by the company hq since its about an hour away. But snap on is like 10 min from my house though

The Kobalt [Lowes] tools I have, have a much nicer finish, fit the bolts and have the same warranty that the Crapsman have.
I've noticed that the Crapsman stuff has been on a down hill slide, for several yrs..The results of Sears going in the toilet??? Who knows.

I keep a couple sets of harbor frieght wrenches and sockets on my truck to bend and cut up as I need them and thats what I used my craftsman for too. They dont hold up very well at work but I still use them at home. As far as my work goes I only use Snap On because they are at every jobsite I go to, even remotely located mines. The day they start trying to sell me chinese stuff ill start buying somewhere else.

That's BS. I break every cheap Chinese tool I use.

This country has gone to hell in a handbasket.

I use a fair amount of Craftsman hand tools, they're screwdrivers are junk & so are the ratchets. Just the other day i was using a 1/4 in drive ratchet & the head of it just fell apart. Now I'm done buying Craftsman tools & as my stuff breaks, I'll replace it with something better.

Every tool manufacturer is going overseas. Ever take a look at the new Snap-on ratchets?? They no longer say "Made in USA" anymore.........

Check out Sunex brand if you want a good quality product that's made overseas but will still hold up to daily abuse. I've abandoned Snap-on/Matco and went to Sunex. Literally 1/4 the price and professional grade.

Yeah craftsman has been there for a while. Danaher tool group manufactures about 80% of the ratchets, sockets, and wrenches for all the big name brand stuff. Proto, snapon, craftsman, kobalt, armstrong, etc just about every name out there.

Try to get Taiwan, its 5x the quality of anything coming from China.

Proto and armstrong and some others have US Made tools and they are 5-10x the money and about 100x the quality.

It's sad that our corp. are selling their soul to the devil for cheap profits today. We will be in a war with them in the near furture , but won't have any manuf. left to build equipment. We have fought them twice Korea, and Vietnam. In both conflicts we have left and now consider them a friendly nation. I guess its all part of the NWO. Sorry for the rant.

...
Try to get Taiwan, its 5x the quality of anything coming from China.
...


I was just saying something similar the other day about Taiwan. It's amazing how we never had this much trouble with products from Taiwan. Seems like the Chinese produce only crap. The final straw was their fucking pet food that had melamine in it. They were already on my shit list, but that crap was completely unacceptable.

I use HF tools sometimes. Their impact sockets and a few other things are great. It's like a crap shoot when you go in there though. Craftsman....I just replaced my 1/4in ratched because I lost my old one, and this new one feels like fucking junk. I hate it.

Thank self made billionaire Eddy Lambert, He is the Chairman of sears, The largest retail seller of tools in the USA, He is also the largest share holder of Autozone, which is secretly the second largest retail seller of hand tools in america.(at least they were a few years ago) This guy has more control of the hand tool industry that any other single person.

This country has gone to hell in a handbasket.

This^^^^^! I find it so frustrating trying to find USA made products anymore. When are we gonna say enough is enough and make a statement to these companies?? I won't buy any hand tools that aren't made in the USA. I'll go to yard sales and find used USA tools before I buy Chinese crap! Fuck craftsman,snap-on,mac,matco,and the rest of them that have deserted us!

The problem is when its made in the USA it cost more which in turn costs the customer. Since it costs the customer more the customer doesn't buy it and heads to Harbor Freight for chinese junk. If they are having trouble selling USA made higher price tools they switch to lower cost chinese tools to make it more affordable to the customer and cheaper for the retailer to make. As a society we tend to look for the "better deal".

The problem is when its made in the USA it cost more which in turn costs the customer. Since it costs the customer more the customer doesn't buy it and heads to Harbor Freight for chinese junk. If they are having trouble selling USA made higher price tools they switch to lower cost chinese tools to make it more affordable to the customer and cheaper for the retailer to make. As a society we tend to look for the "better deal".

I hope that people are finally starting to see that they are not actually saving any money by buying the chinese crap.

The problem is when its made in the USA it cost more which in turn costs the customer. Since it costs the customer more the customer doesn't buy it and heads to Harbor Freight for chinese junk. If they are having trouble selling USA made higher price tools they switch to lower cost chinese tools to make it more affordable to the customer and cheaper for the retailer to make. As a society we tend to look for the "better deal".

Yup! Until American workers start working for and matching Chinese worker wages this is what we have to deal with and we know that isn't going to happen.
It's all a downward spiral for us that is now correcting itself in the last few years, financial change is painful especially when one isn't prepared for it.

China will go through this same thing we are sooner or later in the future. Plus if we can unstrangle and bring back heavy industry to the US, support the local businesses, be it a mom or pop place or companies that use American workers or products and things will get better. It sucks to see people whining about the rich people in this country and saying the should spread the wealth around. Most are when the create or run a business. Has anyone ever work for a poor person?
I'm an not rich but that is because I am somewhat lazy and it's my own fault and I admit it but I dont expect handouts either...

Rant off, Flame suit on.

Buy american when you can...and when you cant buy the cheapest chinese crap you can find. Now what craftsman will expect is that you pay top dollar for chinese crap because it has a craftsman label on...instead of going to harbor freight where you can buy the exact same chinese crap without the craftsman label on it.
As for keeping it usa...Import tariffs!!! its what the chinese do. And for craftsman building overseas to save money???? Lets close our factory to save cash...but now you layoff a bunch of people who no longer have money to buy your tools, so you loose business, so you lay off more workers...who have less money still...who buy less stuff...so you layoff more workers.....downward spiral....until the chinese have so much money and we so little, that it becomes cheaper again to make it here....this is long after we're all dead of course....or like I said you put an import tariff in place.

Yup! Until American workers start working for and matching Chinese worker wages this is what we have to deal with and we know that isn't going to happen.
It's all a downward spiral for us that is now correcting itself in the last few years, financial change is painful especially when one isn't prepared for it.

China will go through this same thing we are sooner or later in the future. Plus if we can unstrangle and bring back heavy industry to the US, support the local businesses, be it a mom or pop place or companies that use American workers or products and things will get better. It sucks to see people whining about the rich people in this country and saying the should spread the wealth around. Most are when the create or run a business. Has anyone ever work for a poor person?
I'm an not rich but that is because I am somewhat lazy and it's my own fault and I admit it but I dont expect handouts either...

Rant off, Flame suit on.

As for keeping it usa...Import tariffs!!! its what the chinese do.

I don't disagree necessarily, but it won't work. Firstly that will just raise the prices on everything. Secondly GWB tried that early in his first term with steel imports from China and Russia... where there is no EPA or OSHA. It was beginning to revitalize the steel industry here. Then the WTO got their knickers in a twist and threatened a trade war with us when we were effectively already feeling the effects of a trade war. Frankly that was one of the few things GWB did that I applauded. I just wish he stood up to those asshats and maybe we would be on an entirely different track right now. It's not like we avoided an economic meltdown anyway so maybe we would have brought back more manufacturing in response to a trade war. This trade deficit BS needs to stop. We import everything and export nothing. We need a balance where Americans can: go to work, build shit, make a decent wage and still be able to afford the stuff we make. I don't see that happening when the American dream now consists of everyone being a CEO.

I don't disagree necessarily, but it won't work. Firstly that will just raise the prices on everything. Secondly GWB tried that early in his first term with steel imports from China and Russia... where there is no EPA or OSHA. It was beginning to revitalize the steel industry here. Then the WTO got their knickers in a twist and threatened a trade war with us when we were effectively already feeling the effects of a trade war. Frankly that was one of the few things GWB did that I applauded. I just wish he stood up to those asshats and maybe we would be on an entirely different track right now. It's not like we avoided an economic meltdown anyway so maybe we would have brought back more manufacturing in response to a trade war. This trade deficit BS needs to stop. We import everything and export nothing. We need a balance where Americans can: go to work, build shit, make a decent wage and still be able to afford the stuff we make. I don't see that happening when the American dream now consists of everyone being a CEO.

Firstly that will just raise the prices on everything." -Yes....but thats kind of the point...who cares if it raises prices, IF it raises jobs, salaries, economy, etc....Yes making things in China makes them cheaper and more affordable, but who cares if to get that cheaper good your job got exported. See what I mean? You can have a $5 China wrench and no job, or a $20 made in USA wrench made here where you get paid 50k a year working on the line that makes it.

"Then the WTO got their knickers in a twist and threatened a trade war with us when we were effectively already feeling the effects of a trade war"
-F- the WTO. The US is responsible for 15% of their funding anyway...let see how much they whine when that gets cut. We've been in a trade war for years and we're loosing.

"This trade deficit BS needs to stop"
-right on!

-Yes....but thats kind of the point...who cares if it raises prices, IF it raises jobs, salaries, economy, etc....

Sadly it's a chicken and egg problem. We can't afford to raise prices until we create more jobs and raise salaries. We can't start bringing manufacturing back to the US and create those jobs until we start making it less advantageous for imported products. Frankly it'll never happen unless we're forced to do it because these jackass politicians (R's & D's) won't bother to fix the symptoms let alone the fundamental problems. They're too busy worrying about carbon footprints, whether or not evolution is real and making sure the sauce on pizza is a vegetable.


Yes making things in China makes them cheaper and more affordable, but who cares if to get that cheaper good your job got exported. See what I mean? You can have a $5 China wrench and no job, or a $20 made in USA wrench made here where you get paid 50k a year working on the line that makes it.


That's the balance to which I referred.
We need a balance where Americans can: go to work, build shit, make a decent wage and still be able to afford the stuff we make.

Frankly it'll never happen unless we're forced to do it because these jackass politicians (R's & D's) won't bother to fix the symptoms let alone the fundamental problems.

Amen!

has anyone considered perhaps making it cheaper for companies to operate in the us?

maybe reduce corporate tax rates, penalties, and epa garbage?

the labor alone isn't the reason companies are moving to china.

Innovation is always cheaper than labor. Hand made tools by children in sweatshops will still be under quality of tools made by machines in the us. There's a reason beyond labor that companies aren't building these factories here in the us and using this innovation to do it. Operating costs.. your overhead is up because of government regulations.

disappointing to see craftsman jump ship on us like this. I thought they were better than this.

has anyone considered perhaps making it cheaper for companies to operate in the us?

maybe reduce corporate tax rates, penalties, and epa garbage?

the labor alone isn't the reason companies are moving to china.

Innovation is always cheaper than labor. Hand made tools by children in sweatshops will still be under quality of tools made by machines in the us. There's a reason beyond labor that companies aren't building these factories here in the us and using this innovation to do it. Operating costs.. your overhead is up because of government regulations.

disappointing to see craftsman jump ship on us like this. I thought they were better than this.

Id be in favor of ZERO coorporate tax! We dont want to tax business...but we ought to tax the money that the owners of those business' try to take home as income.
Also, Sears may not really have had a choice...if they try to manufacture here, but are forced to compete with another company that the US govt allows to make overseas at 1/10th the labor costs ad re-import to the US for free...what else can they do but play ball? That being said...they are no longer made in USA and as such are on my Sh-t list

yea.. it's sad really..

I would say they could survive as a niche market, but not at all not he scale the operate now.

average joe nobody just wants a cheap wrench to work on his 97 town & country so his wife can take the kids to soccer or whatever. So cheap always wins out over quality.

Ya know in my last job, we had a long talk in a manager's office about quality vs quantity.

Since i had started the job I had focused on the quality of my work, as such my volume suffered, but out of that volume the success rate was much higher.

believe it or not.. I was being given a talking to for focusing on quality. I was told to IGNORE quality and focus on quantity.

it made me lose faith in that company, and pride in my work.

I don't work there anymore.. by mutual agreement pretty much. It's a shame but most major companies look at life through this prism these days. quantity, get the product out and sell it for as much of a price hike over costs as possible.

My dad was very badly injured a few years back due to his own stupidity and horrible cheap chinese made craftsman mower he owned. The stupid mower wheels were falling off, carb plate completely broke, exhausts bolts broke of in mower and transmission seezed up. Probably 5 other things went wrong and it was barely over 2 years old.
I have not purchased any craftsman/ sears product since. Craftsman cheaped out years ago. Cheap chinese steel is everywhere. Next is radiated metal from Japan.

Man, don't get me started on Craftsman's cheap ass lawn and garden tools. I had a mower, trimmer and blower (3rd blower) all break on me within a short amount of time. The asshat in the store had given me grief the last time I needed a new blower which was under fucking warranty. I got so pissed off I smashed them all to pieces, loaded them in the truck, and dropped them off at Sears front door. The satisfaction of doing that drastically outweighed anything they possibly could have offered me including new free equipment.

I just wrote into the company....I used to sell Craftsman too - saddens me to hear this.

Somehow I didn`t hear about craftsman selling out and going chinese until the last week or so. I`m really disappointed. I had ordered a microtorque wrench 2 years ago when they were on a black friday sale and ended up really kicking myself for not ordering the other 2 sizes so I had a complete set. Last year I saw they were on sale for black friday again so I picked up the other 2 sizes. Right away when I got them I noticed that instead of coming in a nice case like the previous years one these came in a crappy tray with no lid. Didn`t think much of it till I used them the first time. When I used them I noticed that the new style lock does not work for crap and tends to go from the unlocked position and slip into locked as you try to adjust the wrench. After reading this thread and a couple on garage journal I checked the torque wrenches this morning.........my older one is USA made and when I flipped the newer ones over they are POS china made:eek2:.

This will be the last time I ever buy a craftsman torque wrench.

Got a 154 piece craftsman tool set for christmas. Lust checked the box and it still says made in the usa. Guess I got some of the last "good" craftsman tools...

Every tool manufacturer is going overseas. Ever take a look at the new Snap-on ratchets?? They no longer say "Made in USA" anymore.........

I had a Snap on Rep. And a Snap On Franchise holder tell me the same explanation to this. They said, Snap On's reasoning for this is because they consider themselves a "Global Company" and that the "Made In USA" Makes there Ratchets less Desirable overseas. Maybe its BS I don't know but they gave me the same story, and I've yet to use a better Ratchet.

On the Subject, for the Money Craftsman tools are a rip off. There Quality, fit, and finish is a joke. I only buy Snap on for the tools I use everyday, and Matco for the specaility tools I don't use very often with a few exceptions(Matco Pry-bars and Digital Tire Inflator are WAY better than the Snap on In my Opinion.) Buyer Beware, Matco tools are made by many different suppliers so do your research on them before buying them. Example: You can buy the Lisle tools at O'riellys for a fraction of the price as the Same Matco tool(Built by Lisle) with the Matco Name on it.

I noticed a downslide in the quality of Craftsman tools over the last 5 years. I used to save broken tools and go every couple of months to Sears to swap out. The tools would usually include a couple of screwdrivers, a couple of sockets and definitely several ratchets, especially of 3/8 and 1/4 inch size. I use to walk around grabbing replacement tools and then swapout at the register without problem. Now, especially when it comes to ratchets, I have to swap for rebuilt stuff that generally doesn't work right the second it hits my hand. One time I got a ratchet that had someone's initials engraved in the head. The sockets break very easily now. Wrenches don't fit the bolts as good as they once did. I use Craftsman and Snap-on hand tools, and have given up on replacing my Craftsman. I just buy from Snap-on every week when my Craftsman junk breaks. Not sure about origin of Snap-on tools, but the quality is there.
I think Americans in general (if informed about how it ultimately effects them) would choose the US built stuff even if priced higher, but the issue seems to be that everything seems to be foreign built now - there is not much choice. Very sad situation.
Americans also are too proud. I know several that lost their job due to economy problems with the last few years. One guy made 45k/year and was getting unemployment. He couldn't find a job that paid that, so he just collected unemployment money and sat on his ass. I knew of a position at a local store and told him about it. He told me it didn't pay enough ($9/hour). It's the attitude that we, as Americans, generally have "I'm better than the guy taking your fast food order" or "I'm worth more than that". But in a country where everyone wants to make the most money and pay the least for goods I don't see us getting out of this predicament anytime soon.

Its funny that tariffs came up in this thread. Hilariously enough back in the late 1800's early 1900's we still had a tariff. Hmm country was not in debt.

Bunch of retards in unions cried for the tariff to go away, for what reason who the hell knows, and wanted income tax.

Thanks early 1900's retards!:lol: Way to open the door to destroy the economy in less than 100 years....

YOU CAN STILL DO SOMETHING! Buy Channel Lock pleirs they have needle nose and side dyces etc.. Its not to late. for them. yet...

They even sell them at sears and home depot, I love their logo "Fiercely made in the USA!"

Devillbiss Finishline spray guns are the best around for painting cars and are USA made. Be careful though the entry level Devillbiss Starting line guns are Chinese garbage.

Sharpe and Dynabride. are USA

Buy starrett and let the foreigners buy the damn mititoyo precision measuring tools god know they are too patriotic to buy starrett over there!!!

Gear Wrench stuff rocks and is USA made.

Look around patriot!

How many wimps today would have had the BALLS to throw the foreigners tea in the harbor and start shooting them when they tried to come over here. Lol
God bless General Washington's sharp shooters!

Its funny that tariffs came up in this thread. Hilariously enough back in the late 1800's early 1900's we still had a tariff. Hmm country was not in debt.

Bunch of retards in unions cried for the tariff to go away, for what reason who the hell knows, and wanted income tax.

Thanks early 1900's retards!:lol: Way to open the door to destroy the economy in less than 100 years....

To which 'retards in unions' are you referring?

Tariffs are meant to protect domestic production. Unions==Protectionism. That kind of tactic/plan is *exactly* what unions want. When Bush lifted those steel tariffs he really pissed off the steel union.

BTW, towards the end of the 19th century we were the Chinese to the British economy. We were undercutting them terribly.

So then I'm finished with Craftsman!

amen to all who like to buy american made tools and cars i am a porsche tech and have some german hazzette tools there equilvalant to snap on they suck and MAC TOOLS is an awesome tool company they stopped with the bullshit on there wrenches impacts ratchets prybars etc most of there new stuff is made in THE USA I BUY FROM THEM and thats it sure some of there stuff is chinese but its cheaper and breaks way more often i have mac ratchet that my dad used whenhe was a kid just had to replace the selector lever and as for crafsman i have there sockets great ratchets suck so do screwdrivers but there professional series wrenches are great

This really sucks to hear. I was looking to buy my first mechanics tool kit from Craftsman this summer. Now that I know they're going to be made in China, I'd like to try to save for something else such as a Snap On set. As people said though, even some of Snap On tools are made out of country. It's terrible to hear that you can tell the quality change in the Craftsman hand tools because they are being made in China and not in the USA anymore. Now a days, it seems that nothing is made the way it used to be and quality is getting thrown away so companies can make more profit on their products.

the machanics tool sets like the 56, 94, 118, 154, 182, 192, 200, 255, 260, 283, etc are all still made in america but thats it. once you get into the gearwrench and evolv line, then its chinese shit. all the wrenches, drivers, sockets, marked craftsman are also made in america. but nothing else is now.

and all those sets do have a lifetime waranty as to any screwdrivers, drivers, wrenches, and sockets. keep in mind that its only products marked craftsman only. and yeah sears isnt doing so good we closed 120 BIG stores this year, not just the little ones that sell a few appliences and lawn and garden equipement. this last black friday our store only made $750,000 in sales. every other year we have made $1,000,000,000+. im going to stop now before coorprate gets on my case :bash:

and all those sets do have a lifetime waranty as to any screwdrivers, drivers, wrenches, and sockets. keep in mind that its only products marked craftsman only. and yeah sears isnt doing so good we closed 120 BIG stores this year, not just the little ones that sell a few appliences and lawn and garden equipement. this last black friday our store only made $750,000 in sales. every other year we have made $1,000,000,000+. im going to stop now before coorprate gets on my case :bash:

One billion?! Or did you mean One MILLION+?

Haha million. My bad I guess I wasn't counting my zeros

I ve been told....that virtually all the cranks we use (for strokers) are all from china. Even the made in usa ones....in some cases. They all come from the same building.....the made in usa cranks, are finish machined here is all, and they can say made in usa.

I also was told that there is now a small Provence in china called usa.....so they can put made in usa and not be wrong. I never checked, but the guy that told me, deals directly with the chinese in the industry.

I also was told that there is now a small Provence in china called usa.....so they can put made in usa and not be wrong. I never checked, but the guy that told me, deals directly with the chinese in the industry.

I have never heard of that, but there was a usa japan years ago. They stopped making tools in that city probably 20-30 years ago after the government told them that if they were going to export them to the US it had to be clearly marked made in usa japan.

I have to agree we are our own worst enemy....EPA,Clean Air Act,NHTA,Free Trade Agreement...........

Funny how China has none of it to my knowledge...so YES, it's a lot cheaper to make anything since there's no "minimum wage",Illegal Immigrants looking for FREE hand-outs (let alone a whole class of people living their entire life off the Government's tit and teaching their kids to do the same) Just look at the Aunt of Obama...never paid one penny into Social Security, was here illegally....but was getting a check every month and thought she deserves it ?????? WTF ????????

So yes... we screwed ourselves by being PC :( :sad:

Keep buying at Wal-Mart! Like the chinese say...Americans are so stupid. We deserve everything we get.

This really sucks to hear. I was looking to buy my first mechanics tool kit from Craftsman this summer. Now that I know they're going to be made in China, I'd like to try to save for something else such as a Snap On set. As people said though, even some of Snap On tools are made out of country. It's terrible to hear that you can tell the quality change in the Craftsman hand tools because they are being made in China and not in the USA anymore. Now a days, it seems that nothing is made the way it used to be and quality is getting thrown away so companies can make more profit on their products.

Saving up for a craftsman tool set and than deciding to switch to a snapon set is like saving up for a cavailier than switching to c6 corvette. Quite the difference in price. I don't know how often you wrench, but you certainly do not need to get your first starter kit from snapon. I've seen a few people do that though. But hey, you will learn soon enough just as I did, the markup for the basic stuff from the big dogs is not worth it at all.

Welcome to corporate America.

this last black friday our store only made $750,000 in sales. every other year we have made $1,000,000,000+

You better demand a raise, haha. Even so, a million in sales annually is quite a bit if you ask me, but not good enough for greedy corporate executives. Do you know how much it costs to put insurance on a Ferrari? lolz.

I have to agree we are our own worst enemy....EPA,Clean Air Act,NHTA,Free Trade Agreement...........

Funny how China has none of it to my knowledge...so YES, it's a lot cheaper to make anything since there's no "minimum wage",Illegal Immigrants looking for FREE hand-outs (let alone a whole class of people living their entire life off the Government's tit and teaching their kids to do the same) Just look at the Aunt of Obama...never paid one penny into Social Security, was here illegally....but was getting a check every month and thought she deserves it ?????? WTF ????????

So yes... we screwed ourselves by being PC :( :sad:

Where did you hear all that, from the reliable and truthful media?

this last black friday our store only made $750,000 in sales. every other year we have made $1,000,000,000+. im going to stop now before coorprate gets on my case :bash:

You meant a million, right? Not a billion. :cheers:

I have to agree we are our own worst enemy....EPA,Clean Air Act,NHTA,Free Trade Agreement...........

Funny how China has none of it to my knowledge...so YES, it's a lot cheaper to make anything since there's no "minimum wage",Illegal Immigrants looking for FREE hand-outs (let alone a whole class of people living their entire life off the Government's tit and teaching their kids to do the same) Just look at the Aunt of Obama...never paid one penny into Social Security, was here illegally....but was getting a check every month and thought she deserves it ?????? WTF ????????

So yes... we screwed ourselves by being PC :( :sad:

Not exactly "WE", our rich company owners.
They lobbied for this crap so they didn't have to give into "our" demands.
Your making a XXXXXXXXXXX dollars a year why can I get XX a hour more.
OK, will just take it offshore since "we" lobbied for it and won. "WE" will make fortunes of the backs of others that have rules that "WE" did in the 1920's and you'll end up poor.
Actually the way China is growing/changing it'll take 1/4 the time the USA did to demand change then the companies will take it elsewhere.

Actually from what I have seen if a US company imports stuff not completely assembled and finish assembly here with cheap help then it can be said MADE IS US!!
City of Industry California is riddled with these import assemblers!

Not exactly "WE", our rich company owners.
They lobbied for this crap so they didn't have to give into "our" demands.
Your making a XXXXXXXXXXX dollars a year why can I get XX a hour more.
OK, will just take it offshore since "we" lobbied for it and won. "WE" will make fortunes of the backs of others that have rules that "WE" did in the 1920's and you'll end up poor.
Actually the way China is growing/changing it'll take 1/4 the time the USA did to demand change then the companies will take it elsewhere.

Actually from what I have seen if a US company imports stuff not completely assembled and finish assembly here with cheap help then it can be said MADE IS US!!
City of Industry California is riddled with these import assemblers!

Yes it is Exactly "WE". We are the ones that put these politicians in office and "WE" can vote them out!!!

As much as we want that, and as much as our candidates SAY they want that..

china holds the purse strings of the us..

the only way we can really bring manufacturing back home without pissing off china is to first get our upper hand away from them economically.

Financial interests run washington, we saw that with sopa and pipa.. and the now ACTA that the president recently ratified by circumventing congress.. money talks.. and china has almost all of ours.

It's a sad state of affairs tho.. americans SAY they want made in america goods.. they SAY they won't support chinese goods..

then they get up from the computer after saying it and go to walmart because that misc. item they wanted earlier at the other store was too expensive. (the other one was made in the usa.. walmart's is china.. for the sake of my analogy..)

I'm not pointing my finger either.. I do the same thing. I TRY to buy made in america, but I don't always try THAT hard..

unfortunately, we as a country are suckers for a good deal, even if it's not to our benefit.

Yes it is Exactly "WE". We are the ones that put these politicians in office and "WE" can vote them out!!!


Doesn't matter who get elected.
One party or the other actually because each party has its own rich people whom support it.
Now I would say "WE" if our politicians were doing what the country's system was founded upon was being "OUR" representative, speaking for "OUR" voice and that's the problem. Doesn't matter what "WE THE PEOPLE WANT" its what the rich want and bribe, shit I mean support them for.

I'm in the machine trades industry and while I do shop at Walmart for stuff that should be cheap, it scares me on the metal end of things. Outside the USA and European nations the game of close comes into play and close does not suffice when safety is involved.

You meant a million, right? Not a billion. :cheers:

Haha yeah I'm retarded I know. If we made a billion on that day I damn well better be making atleast $20 an hour. A million is a descent amount to sell in 1 day but for large coorperations that ain't shit. You also have to consider some products are actually being sold for less than we buy them for and our profits on each product are very low on black Friday. And add in commissions for all salesman and hourly wages for everyone working profit can't be too amazing in corporations eyes. But of course, in America we are all about money. We don't live in Bangladesh haha

I just use harbor freight for everything. Ive gone by the point of caring. The harbor freight is just as good as craftsman,snap on,etc. Nowadays

This is pretty sad, I got a stable of craftsman that my late father left me that he bought back in the 70s/80s when he worked as a diesel mechanic, those ratchets/wrenches/sockets are nearly 40 years old now and still work great granted most of it is standard, I buy nothing but snap on now.

As far as the moving things overseas goes its sad that it is more cost effective to mine the iron here ship it to china build the said item and ship the said item back to the US, all the while keeping the cargo ships running most are gas turbine engines, I know a lot about this as I am currently active duty NAVY it costs a ton of money in fuel alone just to run these things. The government needs to do two things.

1. Impose a Import tax, we are one of the few countries that doesn't have one, to hell with NAFTA, make it enough to where its not cost effective to build overseas, if the companies raise the price raise of goods then raise the tax, the companies will get the point. They wont last without the #1 consumer of goods in the world buying.

2. Reduce corporate taxes, you can make up for the deficit with the import tax, that will make it even more desirable to have the stuff built here, enough said.

It would probably be twenty years of hard times but companies will come back to the USA because it would be more cost effective, Once that happens we as a county will export more, therefore more export tax revenue, More Americans will have jobs therefore more Income tax and more money spent to tax, Then and only then will we be able to start to pay back the deficit and that wont be finished until are grandchildren are old at this point.

Just bought a washing machine, dryer, new windows for the entire house, couple pairs of channel locks, etc. All of them are made in the USA. There are still a handful of everyday products being manufactured and sold in our country. It's YOUR responsibility to seek out these products and support them.

1. Impose a Import tax, we are one of the few countries that doesn't have one, to hell with NAFTA, make it enough to where its not cost effective to build overseas, if the companies raise the price raise of goods then raise the tax, the companies will get the point. They wont last without the #1 consumer of goods in the world buying.

2. Reduce corporate taxes, you can make up for the deficit with the import tax, that will make it even more desirable to have the stuff built here, enough said.

It would probably be twenty years of hard times but companies will come back to the USA because it would be more cost effective, Once that happens we as a county will export more, therefore more export tax revenue, More Americans will have jobs therefore more Income tax and more money spent to tax, Then and only then will we be able to start to pay back the deficit and that wont be finished until are grandchildren are old at this point.

Import tax = tariff = duty - we have them... plenty of them. We don't export and that's the problem. Since we import mostly everything these days, how are we going to survive the catastrophic depression and unemployment that results from the trade war that ensues from us hiking tariffs? You'd have to get government involved to subsidize economic programs (not unlike those communist bailouts everyone hates) in order to put people back to work. <--- That sound like anything familiar? Two things contributed to companies sending the work overseas: increased labor costs and diminishing profits. The two are linked but inflation cannot be controlled therefore this was an inevitability i.e. it is a vicious circle. Eventually this happens even on a global scale. At *some* point there is no other country that can do it for cheap[er]. E.g. 10 years ago off shoring to India became very popular, but 10 years later that has diminished because India is becoming more expensive so now places like Vietnam, China, Russia, and Ukraine are the 'hot' places to go.

Instant reduction in corporate taxes *always* results in corporations provisioning that surplus into dividends. You need to provide companies with long term incentives to grow their business. They hire when they need more people to do more work if their business grows and that should be the goal.

Deficit != debt. Budget deficits contribute to our national debt which keeps rising, but you meant debt there, not deficit. In other words this year's deficit is the amount of shortfall in the budget. Towards the end of the Clinton administration it was a surplus, but the national debt was still there.

thats sad, I have always supported craftsman hand tools. I like snap on and SK also, but i've always had good luck with sears. I did purchase a metric tap and die set recently and saw they were made in china.

I was bound to happen. All the companies are soon it and the only way to compete is to do the same. Sadly, in some cases Made in China doesn't always mean horrible quality. The iPhone I'm using right now works great and it was assembled in China...

I just use harbor freight for everything. Ive gone by the point of caring. The harbor freight is just as good as craftsman,snap on,etc. Nowadays

ughhh, I use Harbor Freight for disposable tools....They should not be in the same post as snap on, there is absolutely no comparison. Even the chinese made blue point line is about 3 times better that anything from the freight.

I hate to see this happen, but to be honest the quality of craftsmen tools have been going down hill for some years now.

I bought a few of the their floor jacks a couple years back and they have not lasted at all. I'm very disappointed with there performance.

can we blame the decline in quality on the now made in china?

Ive seen it on several other automotive sites... people say what a great deal and how awesome HF is...but yet they complain about craftsman going overseas...its like driving by a Blockbuster and bitching because its closing as a stack of netflix DVD's slide around on the passenger seat of your car...

I was bound to happen. All the companies are soon it and the only way to compete is to do the same. Sadly, in some cases Made in China doesn't always mean horrible quality. The iPhone I'm using right now works great and it was assembled in China...

I often wonder if at some point, "Made in China" will actually meet and possibly surpass the height at which most people currently regard "made in USA", "made in Germany", "made in Japan", etc... I mean, we are giving them all the technology (and $$$) and they are developing their own proprietary stuff (as are the Taiwanese, where I've toured factories) to soon have facilities where some things can only be made there, and in some ways, made better.


Can't complain too hard, we as a whole are just straight handing it to them, whether you like it or not.











back to the Craftsman tool thing, I also just noticed the other day that ACE hardware sells craftsman tools too, but at quick glance they seemed to be more like those "evolve" line tools too... don't really know though.

Also, it sounds like most of you who are pissed off about it seem to be professional mechanics by trade... where to me it seemed most professionals didn't use Craftsman anyway, whether USA made or not!!!
Kind of ironic.
I'm just a weekend mechanic, and throughout all my experiences I have been mostly satisfied with Craftsman cost/quality/warranty in general. Have had complaints here and there, but to be expected IMO. Cannot justifty paying Snap on prices.

Wright tools are made in america and are very fine quality piece

Wright tools are made in america and are very fine quality piece

Good call, they have really impressed me lately. I have a few hand-me-down Wright tools, so I checked them out and found this on their site:

"Made Entirely in the U.S.A.
From the design and engineering to the forging and finishing, all work on Wright tools is performed in the United States by skilled American workers. We do not use foreign blanks or forgings. Even the steel we use is American-made."


This is an excellent point they are making. I'm sick of hearing about the tool quality from different countries of origin, who cares. I expect quality, but I'm purchasing USA made for a reason, and if you are telling me the whole process is USA made from the design to materials to assembly, I commend that.

I have some old Craftsman ratchets that my dad handed down to me. He bought them back in 1977 before I was born,1979. He was required to buy his own tools for his new job, building a power plant for LG&E, Louisville Gas and Electric. The way I look at it these tools have built a power plant and are now in my tool box. They are some of my favorite ratchets. They are not made like any other Craftsman ratchet I have seen as long as I can remember.

Some good news from my employer though...

http://www.whas11.com/news/business/Unveiling-at-Appliance-Park-139077389.html

http://www.wlky.com/money/30425398/detail.html?fb_ref=story_top&fb_source=profile_oneline

Also, it sounds like most of you who are pissed off about it seem to be professional mechanics by trade... where to me it seemed most professionals didn't use Craftsman anyway, whether USA made or not!!!
Kind of ironic.
I'm just a weekend mechanic, and throughout all my experiences I have been mostly satisfied with Craftsman cost/quality/warranty in general. Have had complaints here and there, but to be expected IMO. Cannot justifty paying Snap on prices.

Even for the "professional" mechanic, not all tools need to be high quality. You don't need to spend $30 on a regular screwdriver by going to snapon. When you can get it from a store such as sears or menards for a couple bucks. I remember browsing a matco catalog one day, and they wanted $100 for this large pair of regular, ordinary pliers. I later found a similar pair of pliers that was actually much bigger in size at menards for like $15. Never had an issue with it. For basic hand tools, the big name brands are so overpriced it's sickening.

Soon it will be easier to make a list of USA-made products than it will the Made in China stuff.

craftsman sucks, and has for a while. I gave up years ago. I dont even like matco or snap on anymore. Now I go to lowes for some kobalt stuff and I've yet to break a kobalt anything in 3 years. I also go get ratchets and stuff from harbor freight, have yall been lately? they have lifetime warranty on tools, and several things that are actually nice. I have a gearwrench swivel head ratchet that was my fav, till it broke and now I have a harbor freight one that works better and cost like 14.99, and i've tried to break it, AND it has the button that holds the socket on. I find myself using the cheap stuff day to day, and saving good tools for certain things.

I used to be anti cheap tools, but dam, they are all cheap junk now. Only thing ive broken at harbor freight is their multi colored sockets...but at 10.99 for a set, i'll go get more...if I didnt use an impact and 3/8-1/2 reducer, I prob wouldnt have broken it. Of course, HF electric anything is still junk

I will be sticking with Wright and S-K, as they are American made and fall in between the cheap stuff and the Snap-on/Matco/Mac tools as far as price goes. Hopefully S-K is under stable ownership now. All I do is play in the garage, but I sure don't want to be rounding off nuts and breaking tools when I'm playing...makes me grumpy.

Harbor Freight socket organizers are the bomb!!!

Ive seen it on several other automotive sites... people say what a great deal and how awesome HF is...but yet they complain about craftsman going overseas...its like driving by a Blockbuster and bitching because its closing as a stack of netflix DVD's slide around on the passenger seat of your car...

Yeah, folks dont have much choice these days. The steadily decilning dollar value along with jobs shipping overseas, and forcing the American worker with an American standard of living to compete with a Chinese worker with a much lower standard of living, basically means that most Americans cannot afford american made with out serious sacrifices from somewhere else in their budget. Especialy, if buying American really only delays the inevitable...that jobs will continue to be exported until, an equalibrium is reached..where americans become a lot poorer (just middle class...the rich have never had it better), third world labor pools become a little bit richer, and all of us have the same mediocre somewhere-between-medeival-and-modern standard of living(again, not including rich folks). OR.....we could put the axe to all of these free trade agreements. just a thought

go to Menards... you will find they are selling Craftsmen stuff.

also.. look at the Masterforce Wrenches... they say made in the USA and the fit and finish on them is better that Craftsman IMO..

I have thousands of dollars worth of Craftsman. When they fail I wont be accepting replacements from China. I will be expecting reimbursement.

I Have alot of dollars tied up in my Snap-On tools I bought early in my career a long time ago. I gladly paid the premium for Snap-On but I'll be damned if I'll pay it for Chineese Snap-On tools. I have a few Wright tools, Ill look to them for new stuff but in reality I don't need alot any more.
IVe always used Craftsman at home started with the remains of my dads set from the '60s. They were convienent to buy when you needed something in the middle of a job. I won't buy any that are'nt made here.
A while back when I heard Vise Grip was closing their plant in the USA after 85 years to move production to China (thats right check the label) I imediately went out and bought some of the last made in USA Vise Grips I had been wanting and I e-mailed Vise Grip and told them what I thought of them closing their USA plant. Never got a response.
KD Tools is also moving to China.

I have thousands of dollars worth of Craftsman. When they fail I wont be accepting replacements from China. I will be expecting reimbursement.

Yep same here. Such a shame. I mean where esle could you go while you were right in the middle of a job and get a good USA made tool.

I have thousands of dollars worth of Craftsman. When they fail I wont be accepting replacements from China. I will be expecting reimbursement.


they will just give you that typical stupid look when you say you wont accept the replacement since its not US made, and tell you to go either take that one or leave with your broken one.
needless to say, my broken one got thrown in the parking lot.:ripped:

I was lucky as hell to have a gear head grandfather who passed this year and left me all his tools so i got a ton of replacement stuff so i have like 20 more ratchets to break before i gotta swallow my pride and get china replacements.
I will say this, comparing all the old stuff i got to anything made in the last 10 years is night and day, face it, even the Made in USA craftsman stuff wasnt great.
still, too bad to see them go.

Keep buying at Wal-Mart! Like the chinese say...Americans are so stupid. We deserve everything we get.

seriously!

So many people rant about "buy American", then turn around and buy their housewares, electronics and kid's shoes at Wal-Mart. Damn hypocrites.

A company has to make money. PERIOD. That is the ONLY purpose of a company. Unions be damned, they will go elsewhere if they have to.

As a consumer, I generally won't buy made-in-China hand tools, but purely from a quality point of view.

Went to sears today and all the new tools coming in are from china :( Only the old stock is USA. Such a shame...

Went to sears today and all the new tools coming in are from china :( Only the old stock is USA. Such a shame...

I verified the same thing today. So far, its only the "new style" ratches and wrenches. the "old style" all still say made in usa.

At least we make the best fast food.. That's something to be proud of.. Right?:eyes:

I hate to see this happen, but to be honest the quality of craftsmen tools have been going down hill for some years now.


This, but there electric tools have been made in China for some town now.

go china or go home.welcome to corporate America population screwed.

I think their sockets are still USA made, but their wrenches are for sure chinese. I have a set of their older professional series that are of nice quality, I recently bought their professional flare wrenches and the quality is not nearly as nice, and they have in tiny print on the back of the box "made in china" yet still carry the same made in USA prices :eyes:

Went to sears yesterday to pick up a 1/2" drive long handle ratchet before the chinese stuff took over on the racks.........TOO LATE!!! Every 1/2" drive was made in china! I am officially done with craftsman. So I went to Lowes and bought cobalt made in Tiawan? F@%k me!

Most the stuff at my sears was still USA made, a few things were china or tiawan but not much. I know all there new evol sets are.

I'm gonna have to start hitting up the yard sales to pick up tools.

Looks like I will not be buying Craftsman tools anymore.
Armstrong Tools is one company I will be looking at.
http://www.armstrongtools.com/locatedistributors.aspx

I try to buy only AMERICAN made products as much as I can.


.

S & K handtools

http://www.skhandtool.com/getconnected.aspx

If only more Americans thought about this..........poor quality will still be there long after you forget about the great price you think you got.

seriously!

So many people rant about "buy American", then turn around and buy their housewares, electronics and kid's shoes at Wal-Mart. Damn hypocrites.

I bought my socks at Walmart because they were made in the USA while the ones at Meijer were made in India, go figure :huh:

Electronics you really don't have much of a choice on. We don't make very many semiconductors here in the US anymore.

FWIW, I broke my craftsman breaker bar (I didn't think I was that strong but I torqued it real good and sheared it off). Took it back, got another one, it still has "made in USA" stamped on it.

Interesting.

this got me thinking, and i looked at my NOS set of craftsman wrenches, and they say JAPAN on them...they are also chromoly---no cr-v

Dammitt!! I JUST bought a 260 pc set of tools, and a compressor and air tools.

This shit really makes me want to return them. Well, at least the compressor. Apparently 12 gallon isn't enough for more than 20 second bursts.

Awesome.. I didn't see this one coming!

If Craftsmen is made in china..whats the point? Just buy the same harbor freight china tool for half.

Really wish people would get on an American Spirit of Manufacturing kick and actually look where their items come from.

Well to be fair there are levels of Chinese-made stuff. Some is utter crap and some isn't quite as crappy :P

Well to be fair there are levels of Chinese-made stuff. Some is utter crap and some isn't quite as crappy :P

China does have some of the most advanced manufacturing plants in the world, so its not like a quality tool is impossible to be made in China. It really depends on whether the company is just shifting it to China for cheaper labor costs, or if they are going to cut corners on inferior manufacturing processes too.

China does have some of the most advanced manufacturing plants in the world, so its not like a quality tool is impossible to be made in China. It really depends on whether the company is just shifting it to China for cheaper labor costs, or if they are going to cut corners on inferior manufacturing processes too.

Thanks to industries manufacture link readjustment , now Chinese factories can also manufacture high-tech gear for everything from cell phone to car .

Sign this petition asking Craftsman to make all hand tools in America and to bring the jobs home.

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/298/224/331/tell-craftsman-we-want-tools-made-in-america/

Sign this petition asking Craftsman to make all hand tools in America and to bring the jobs home.

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/298/224/331/tell-craftsman-we-want-tools-made-in-america/


done!

There are still a number of American made hand tools out there. They are just harder to find at your average Lowes. Channellock is awesome for pliers, wrenches, etc. Their steel is even made here in Meadville, PA. They do make some of their code blue line overseas, so check for the American flag on the packaging before you buy. For hammers and prybars, Estwing and Vaugh are both totally USA made and their quality is excellent. Hardcore Hammers are higher end framing hammers. Wright Tool and Klein Tools are American made. They make screwdrivers, wrenches, pliers, sockets and more. Eklind and Mayhew are other American tool manufacturers, and make hex keys, punches, chisels, etc. Lie Nielsen makes high end wood working equipment domestically. MagLite is still American, and of course makes great flashlights. Dasco makes chisels, prybars and punches. Johnson Level still makes some American made levels, but check the label. Some of them may be a little pricey, but wouldn't you rather know you are getting quality tools while supporting American jobs at the same time? Ace Hardware carries some of these tool lines, as well as Home Depot (although HD is not my favorite). Sears does also offer some of these tool lines in limited numbers. Online ordering is about the only way to get full access to some of these tools now.

I had just noticed that Craftsman was selling Chinese made wrenches and sockets in the last couple of months. Hadn't needed anything for awhile. Asked a salesman if there sales had suffered - he said yes.

I scour pawn shops and auctions for any odd items I need. Every tool I have is Craftsman, Channel Locks, etc - always try to buy US made.

I had just noticed that Craftsman was selling Chinese made wrenches and sockets in the last couple of months. Hadn't needed anything for awhile. Asked a salesman if there sales had suffered - he said yes.

I scour pawn shops and auctions for any odd items I need. Every tool I have is Craftsman, Channel Locks, etc - always try to buy US made.

Not really surprised. There are still enough of us out there that care and are moving on to another that is still made here.

I'm not sure if its been posted here but a lot of craftsman stuff is still made here its just their econo lines that are made overseas. Their quality stuff still has made in USA stamped on it

I'm not sure if its been posted here but a lot of craftsman stuff is still made here its just their econo lines that are made overseas. Their quality stuff still has made in USA stamped on it

Isnt their Econoline Evolv or something like that? Craftsman Ratchets, extensions and wrenches are China now. My local Sears has them, maybe your Sears has some old stock if you see USA on the Craftsman ratchets, wrenches or extensions.

Craftsman tools are always have their worth in the world, whatever the century it may be. Some times they are often far better than the Automated work. It is hearing that Japan has also started work on this, have anyone of you has confirmation of this !!!