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who has successfully welded extra head bolt mounts to an iron block?

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Old 01-14-2012, 07:39 PM
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Default who has successfully welded extra head bolt mounts to an iron block?

For 6 bolt heads.

Is there any kind of kit that sells the mounts that get welded to the block?

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Old 01-14-2012, 07:51 PM
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Orings would b easier. Cheaper too
Old 01-14-2012, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Bobsmyuncle
Orings would b easier. Cheaper too
Maybe do both.....

I'm just curious if it works perfectly or like most other mods....it really doesn't work.....

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Old 01-14-2012, 08:01 PM
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I've actually thought about welding the extra "ears" on for 6bolt heads, but it depends what bore u are lookin for. In my case, it'd b on a 5.3, so 6bolt head and 6bolt gasket options are virtually non-existent. I believe o rings work and hold alot better than just 6 bolt alone, but like u said, both would be the beat case scenario.

But to answer ur post, I don't believe there is a kit, but it CAN b done w the right rod, heat ect. My brother in law has about every single cert possible for welding and he said it can easily b done. But it'd cost some coin bc of the steps that have to be taken to do so.
Old 01-14-2012, 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Bobsmyuncle
I've actually thought about welding the extra "ears" on for 6bolt heads, but it depends what bore u are lookin for. In my case, it'd b on a 5.3, so 6bolt head and 6bolt gasket options are virtually non-existent. I believe o rings work and hold alot better than just 6 bolt alone, but like u said, both would be the beat case scenario.

But to answer ur post, I don't believe there is a kit, but it CAN b done w the right rod, heat ect. My brother in law has about every single cert possible for welding and he said it can easily b done. But it'd cost some coin bc of the steps that have to be taken to do so.
I have a welder thats like your brother-in-law.....he can literally do anything and has done it all. 40 years experience.

So where do you get the "ears", or do you start with raw blocks of iron and weld them into position, then drill and tap?

I want to do it.....what costs so much and how do I get him started? The one thing has never done is this......but he did weld one of my started mounts back onto my aluminum block.....thats the only thing he has done with an engine block.

Whats the expensive part of the job?

.

Last edited by LS6427; 01-14-2012 at 08:26 PM.
Old 01-14-2012, 11:21 PM
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Well depends if u got hookups or not, but the process is usually done by "blocking" o using an oven. Bc to weld the iron, u have to heat it before u weld it, ad after u weld it, u have to keep it hot. The longer it takes to cool the better and stronger it wil b. And as we all know time is money. But the best way I think to do the process would be to find a head or buy a set of 6 bolt heads, get the dimensions of the stud location(center to center). Once u have the stud location, get ur "blocks" welded to the block, then locate ur holes and drill em(this will b done on a mill) and then tap them to the appropriate thread. THEN, I would go back and deck the surface of the block so the added peices are perfectly flat w the deck. And that should get a pretty noce product
Old 01-14-2012, 11:30 PM
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But honestly, I would go for a double oring, or oring and receiver groove ect. That combined with studs or even machine for 1/2" studs and she won't ever push water!!
Old 01-15-2012, 12:00 PM
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Its probably expensive because its risky, cast iron is brittle and a lot of times cracks. The people that do this probably charge a lot in case they have to replace the block.

Copied from http://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-us...on-detail.aspx

Cast iron is difficult, but not impossible, to weld. In most cases, welding on cast iron involves repairs to castings, not joining casting to other members. The repairs may be made in the foundry where the castings are produced, or may be made to repair casting defects that are discovered after the part is machined. Mis-machined cast iron parts may require repair welding, such as when holes are drilled in the wrong location. Frequently, broken cast iron parts are repaired by welding. Broken cast iron parts are not unusual, given the brittle nature of most cast iron.

While there are a variety of types of cast iron, the most common is gray cast iron, and these guidelines are directed toward this type of material.

A few facts about cast iron help in understanding the welding challenges. Cast iron typically has a carbon content of 2% - 4%, roughly 10 times as much as most steels. The high carbon content causes the carbon to form flakes of graphite. This graphite gives gray cast iron its characteristic appearance when fractured.

When castings are made, molten iron is poured into a mold and allowed to slowly cool. When this high carbon material is allowed to cool slowly, crack free castings can be made. Remembering this is helpful when welding cast iron: during and after welding, the casting must either be allowed to cool slowly, or should be kept cool enough that the rate of cooling is not important.

A critical temperature in most cast iron is about 1450 degrees F. When at this temperature, conditions that can lead to cracking occur. While the arc will heat the casting to temperatures above this level, it is important that the casting not be held at this temperature for long periods of time.

Electrode Selection
If the part is to be machined after welding, a nickel-type electrode will be required. Use Lincoln Softweld® 99Ni stick electrode for single pass, high dilution welds. Softweld 55 Ni is preferred for multiple pass welds. Sometimes, root passes are put in with Softweld 99 Ni, followed by fill passes with Softweld 55 Ni. For welds where machining is not required, and where the weld is expected to rust like the cast iron, Lincoln Ferroweld® stick electrode can be used.

To Heat, or not to Heat
In general, it is preferred to weld cast iron with preheat--and lots of it. But, another way to successfully weld cast iron is to keep it cool--not cold, but cool. Below, both methods will be described. However, once you select a method, stick with it. Keep it hot, or keep it cool, but don't change horses in the middle of the stream.

Welding Techniques with Preheat
Preheating the cast iron part before welding will slow the cooling rate of the weld, and the region surround the weld. It is always preferred to heat the entire casting, if possible. Typical preheat temperatures are 500-1200 degrees F. Don’t heat over 1400 degrees F since that will put the material into the critical temperature range. Preheat the part slowly and uniformly.

Weld using a low current, to minimize admixture, and residual stresses. In some cases, it may be necessary to restrict the welds to small, approximately 1-inch long segments to prevent the build up of residual stresses that can lead to cracking. Peening of weld beads can be helpful in this regard as well.

After welding, allow the part to slowly cool. Wrapping the casting in an insulating blanket, or burying it in dry sand, will help slow cooling rates, and reduce cracking tendencies.

Welding Techniques without Preheat
The size of the casting, or other circumstances, may require that the repair be made without preheat. When this is the case, the part needs to be kept cool, but not cold.

Raising the casting temperature to 100 degrees F is helpful. If the part is on an engine, it may be possible to run it for a few minutes to obtain this temperature. Never heat the casting so hot that you cannot place your bare hand on it.

Make short, approximately 1” long welds. Peening after welding is important with this technique. Allow the weld and the casting to cool. Do not accelerate the rate of cooling with water or compressed air. It may be possible to weld in another area of the casting while the previous weld cools. All craters should be filled. Whenever possible, the beads should be deposited in the same direction, and it is preferred that the ends of parallel beads not line up with each other.
Old 01-15-2012, 02:44 PM
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How much power are you expecting to make ?

If you really insist you need more clamping effort, uprating to larger head studs would be more effective, and easier.
Old 01-15-2012, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by stevieturbo
How much power are you expecting to make ?

If you really insist you need more clamping effort, uprating to larger head studs would be more effective, and easier.
1000+ RWHP....psi, not sure. But I think I'm going with the 6.0 iron block (.030 over bore = 370ci) and an ST80 or maybe s91 turbo.


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Old 01-15-2012, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Bobsmyuncle
But honestly, I would go for a double oring, or oring and receiver groove ect. That combined with studs or even machine for 1/2" studs and she won't ever push water!!
Cool, thanks for the info. I'll chat with my builder Tuesday.

But just curious...what does o-ringing cost, generally.

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Last edited by LS6427; 01-15-2012 at 05:38 PM.
Old 01-15-2012, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by pwrtrip75
Its probably expensive because its risky, cast iron is brittle and a lot of times cracks. The people that do this probably charge a lot in case they have to replace the block.

Copied from http://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-us...on-detail.aspx
Cool info.......not that I know anything about welding.....lol

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Old 01-15-2012, 05:29 PM
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I can't imagine this being more cost effective than an after market block.
Old 01-15-2012, 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Cronic_Moronic
I can't imagine this being more cost effective than an after market block.
Well, I'm not paying $2,000+ for an iron LSX (before machining) or $4,000 for a complete rip-off RHS aluminum block.

What else is there?

The iron 6.0L block is $600.00, if o-ringing is the answer, then that seems the most cost effective for 20-25psi......


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Old 01-15-2012, 05:42 PM
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I'd just go for bigger studs.

I just dont see welding being anywhere near as successful. As even the best weld will be difficult, expensive, and still offer limited extra clamp simply because the welded portion is never going to be as strong as a fully cast piece.

Provided the heads you use have a thick deck, then bigger head studs will allow a lot more clamp.
Old 01-15-2012, 05:48 PM
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I made over 1100rwhp with an aluminum LS2? I don't think there is a reason to do anything other than just do the APR 2000 head studs or L19's but I prefer the 2000. Don't think you will have a probelm at all! GL!
Old 01-15-2012, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by stevieturbo
How much power are you expecting to make ?

If you really insist you need more clamping effort, uprating to larger head studs would be more effective, and easier.
are you sure about that?

in any case, this is something that is completely doable and has been done before. you'll need a capale welder and the right filler rod, along with pre/post heat. if the weld is exicuted well it'll be stronger than the base metal.

also, that lincoln link that was provided covers stick welding. tig would be the best process in this case.

have i done it? no. would i do it? yes, i wouldnt hesitate.

Last edited by kmracer; 01-15-2012 at 07:38 PM.
Old 01-15-2012, 08:15 PM
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What does your builder say? If you trust the builder that person is the only one you should be asking these questions too.
Old 01-15-2012, 08:48 PM
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believe AES does this process in house as well..
Old 01-15-2012, 09:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Inspector12
I made over 1100rwhp with an aluminum LS2? I don't think there is a reason to do anything other than just do the APR 2000 head studs or L19's but I prefer the 2000. Don't think you will have a probelm at all! GL!
I went with LS2 block, single oring, 1/2 arp studs with ls9 gaskets But we dont dyno until Tuesday so Ill let you know how it turns out. jeff


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