Automotive News, Media & Press - Camaro Chief Engineer on the LSA ZL1 vs 2013 5.8L GT500

Camaro chief claims ZL1 will outperform Shelby GT500

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2012/01/al-oppenehieser-camaro-zl1-.jpg

By John Neff
Posted Jan 20th 2012 2:00PM

It would seem on paper that the 2013 Ford Shelby Mustang GT500 should easily slay the heavier and less powerful 2012 Chevy Camaro ZL1. The former weighs 3,850 pounds and brings 650 horsepower and 600 pound-feet of torque to the table, the latter carries 4,120 pounds and 580 hp/556 lb-ft.

Not so fast, says Camaro Chief Engineer Al Oppenheiser (above). Speaking with Autoblog at an Arizona drive event for the Camaro ZL1, Oppenheiser told us, "We've done simulations. We predict that the ZL1 will be quicker to 60 than the [2013] GT500... We ran the Nürburgring and released a time. Ford took the GT500, too, and never released a time. I guess you can draw your own conclusions."

When asked point-blank if he thought the ZL1 would be quicker around the 'Ring, Oppenheiser replied, "No question."

Them sounds like fighting words, especially in the face of data that suggests the opposite is true. Remember, this is the same guy who told Mustang fans "you're welcome" for encouraging Ford to throw everything it can at the Camaro.

But we're not counting Oppenheiser among the crazy just yet. All that power generated by the GT500's supercharged 5.8-liter V8 will be for naught if it can't reach the ground without turning into tire vapor, and let's not forget that the Blue Oval's bomber is still dragging around a solid rear axle, compared to the all-independent suspension sporting third-generation Magnetic Ride shocks on the ZL1. And who's doing the driving can always be the great equalizer when talking 'Ring times.

We're still inclined to put our chips on the blue square, but nothing's certain until these two titans of Detroit meet head-to-head.

http://www.autolinedetroit.tv/journal/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/autoblog_logo_new_web.jpg (http://www.autoblog.com/2012/01/20/camaro-chief-claims-zl1-will-outperform-shelby-gt500/)

since when did we all become autocross warriors???? thats the only argument GM has been claiming, "the ZL1 is faster at the Nürburgring..." who gives a flyin flip if its faster at the Nürburgring, most people here are gonna drag race it, and to that point, it will get its ass dragged down the track by the GT500.

We shall see...

since when did we all become autocross warriors???? thats the only argument GM has been claiming, "the ZL1 is faster at the Nürburgring..." who gives a flyin flip if its faster at the Nürburgring, most people here are gonna drag race it, and to that point, it will get its ass dragged down the track by the GT500.

Because we live in the twenty teens and expect cars to do more than just shoot down the road in a straight line.

since when did we all become autocross warriors???? thats the only argument GM has been claiming, "the ZL1 is faster at the Nürburgring..." who gives a flyin flip if its faster at the Nürburgring, most people here are gonna drag race it, and to that point, it will get its ass dragged down the track by the GT500.

Sure drag racing is fine but why be one-dimensional? Yeah the GT500 may have 70 more horse but will that alone give it a victory? I highly doubt it and you'd be a fool to think otherwise.

he also claimed a faster 0-60. that seems reasonable with a probable traction advantage.

ZL1 will win the magazine tests. GT500 will dominate at your local strip...if the buyer knows to fit it with DRs. GT500 will win the my dick is bigger than yours battle.

Sure drag racing is fine but why be one-dimensional? Yeah the GT500 may have 70 more horse but will that alone give it a victory? I highly doubt it and you'd be a fool to think otherwise.

70 more horses plus about 300 pounds lighter. Hell, the weight difference alone is why the LS1 Vette outruns the LS1 F-body.

If both cars get traction at the drag strip, this is seriously a no-brainer. The 'Ring time is what is up for debate. My guess is Ford can't match the ZL1's time, and that's why it hasn't released a time yet. With the technology in the ZL1, I don't doubt that it will be the better car for all-around performance. But to deny that the GT500 will hand the ZL1 its ass on the drag strip (assuming good traction) is a bit naive.

ZL1 will win the magazine tests. GT500 will dominate at your local strip...if the buyer knows to fit it with DRs. GT500 will win the my dick is bigger than yours battle.

or the bigger wallet.

If both cars get traction at the drag strip, this is seriously a no-brainer. The 'Ring time is what is up for debate. My guess is Ford can't match the ZL1's time, and that's why it hasn't released a time yet. With the technology in the ZL1, I don't doubt that it will be the better car for all-around performance. But to deny that the GT500 will hand the ZL1 its ass on the drag strip (assuming good traction) is a bit naive.

It's a horrible debate though. Driver matters more at a track like the ring then the car does, and Chevy has an awesome driver.

I think it's funny how this guy keeps trying to defend the ZL1 against a car that hasn't been released yet, while all Ford has said is they made it to increase the gap between the Boss and the GT500. I think that shows that this guy already knows the ZL1 is going to get its ass handed to it everywhere.

I can't recall the last time the chief engineer of a car was bench racing his car against one that hasn't come out yet, only to talk about how much better his car is then one he and nobody else hasn't tested. :lol:

Eagerly awaiting for this match.

lol why is this dude always talking shit.

The best thing about this argument is that we can have it in the first place.

Just think about the stock performance figures of these cars, they are both remarkable vehicles and it`s nothing short of a miracle that we have cars with this type of performance. Everyone should keep defending and debating both cars, it fuels the fire of competition.

The stock performance numbers are mostly for bragging rights and that does sell cars, but we all know how long someone will keep a car stock if they are racing it on a regular basis.:chug:

I like both cars, but I`m a GM guy, so I will be buying the ZL1(I Wish). I`m sure there are a lot of Ford guys who will buy the GT500, because it`s a Ford and that brand association will probably factor into the majority of the sales figures.

We still have it good, never forget that!!

GM should have just went with the LS9 engine in the ZL1.

GM should have just went with the LS9 engine in the ZL1.
They probably would have had they known about this 650 hp surprise.

No way GM would stick the engine from their $100k+ Corvette into the $55k Camaro.

No way GM would stick the engine from their $100k+ Corvette into the $55k Camaro.

That's why corvette needs to share the spot! If corvette didn't have to be "king of the hill" the fbody probably would've never died in the first place.

lol GM is saying all of this because of their "simulations." Give me a break. They sound extremely butt-hurt about the new gt500. I'm really looking forward to some real world tests to come out. I love how the chevy guys are always about raw horsepower and the street performance, but now that the tables have turned it's all about which one sells more and a track that's 7000 miles away.

That's why corvette needs to share the spot! If corvette didn't have to be "king of the hill" the fbody probably would've never died in the first place.

performance between both wasnt all that much different as far as c5 and 4th gens LSs.

why the fbody died had nothing to do with vettes. they just werent appealing to a wide range of buyers.

5th gens and c6s coexist just fine now.

I know there are a ton of fast GT500s out there I just never see any at my local track. I see a bunch of "I have XYZ hp" but run 13s. Just saying...

The best thing about this argument is that we can have it in the first place.

Just think about the stock performance figures of these cars, they are both remarkable vehicles and it`s nothing short of a miracle that we have cars with this type of performance. Everyone should keep defending and debating both cars, it fuels the fire of competition.

The stock performance numbers are mostly for bragging rights and that does sell cars, but we all know how long someone will keep a car stock if they are racing it on a regular basis.:chug:

I like both cars, but I`m a GM guy, so I will be buying the ZL1(I Wish). I`m sure there are a lot of Ford guys who will buy the GT500, because it`s a Ford and that brand association will probably factor into the majority of the sales figures.

We still have it good, never forget that!!:werd: I think that both cars are just so full of win that it simply makes me smile like this: :D ;)
Certainly good times to be a car guy. :thumb: :cool:

since when did we all become autocross warriors???? thats the only argument GM has been claiming, "the ZL1 is faster at the Nürburgring..." who gives a flyin flip if its faster at the Nürburgring, most people here are gonna drag race it, and to that point, it will get its ass dragged down the track by the GT500.

When I was young, drag racing was king.
Now that I have been through all that, I see that Drag racing just breaks things.
OK if that's what you want but, handling is where it's at now.
ANyone can stuff a monster motor into a brick and make it fast down a straight.
It just takes a certain amount of motor.
Taking a vechicle and making it corner, accellerate, brake and handle better than anyone else is much more worthy of my dime and is more impressive from a performance / engineering standpoint.:engarde:
PS. anyone can get an extra 60 HP out of that Camaro no problem once purchased.

70 more horses plus about 300 pounds lighter. Hell, the weight difference alone is why the LS1 Vette outruns the LS1 F-body.

If both cars get traction at the drag strip, this is seriously a no-brainer. The 'Ring time is what is up for debate. My guess is Ford can't match the ZL1's time, and that's why it hasn't released a time yet. With the technology in the ZL1, I don't doubt that it will be the better car for all-around performance. But to deny that the GT500 will hand the ZL1 its ass on the drag strip (assuming good traction) is a bit naive.

On paper there is no debate but races don't happen on paper. How many high horsepower cars have you seen lose to cars with less power because they had the right combination of driver mod and traction? I see it all the time and it's always funny when a 500HP car beats a 700HP car, hell for the sake of the argument I beat a few high hp cars in my trans am when it wasn't making much power. Once these two cars are on the strip together we will see what happens.

I know there are a ton of fast GT500s out there I just never see any at my local track. I see a bunch of "I have XYZ hp" but run 13s. Just saying...

My point exactly. :chug:

OH NO! Not simulations!

:eyes:

GM should have just went with the LS9 engine in the ZL1.

Wholeheartedly agree with this.

When I was young, drag racing was king.
Now that I have been through all that, I see that Drag racing just breaks things.
OK if that's what you want but, handling is where it's at now.
. that's always been the case overseas. Americans just caught on 40 years later. I'm glad we caught on though.

Ring times are cool, but I more care about performance you can access everyday aka point and shoot/drag racing.

Wow, Big talk from GM hopefully they can back that up when the 2013 GT500 starts to get tested and tested against the ZL1.

Such a great time to live in, and a few years back people were saying the muscle car era would soon die.....doesn't look like it. :jest:

Wow, Big talk from GM hopefully they can back that up when the 2013 GT500 starts to get tested and tested against the ZL1.

Such a great time to live in, and a few years back people were saying the muscle car era would soon die.....doesn't look like it. :jest:

theres been talk of performance vehicles going away for decades. gas prices, high insurance and regulations almost finished them off many times.

look how many choices a buyer had back in the 60s. theres a lot less choices now. but theres enough.

Wholeheartedly agree with this.

And the MSRP would probably jump another $10K or more.

And the MSRP would probably jump another $10K or more.

I'm sure it could be kept in line with the GT500.

He definitely sounds butt-hurt to me, there's no need in all of these speculations, simulations, claims, etc., etc., I just want to see what happens when these cars are available to the public, talk is cheap.

I heard those simulations where on forza 4.

Another shot taken at Ford. :lol:

http://jalopnik.com/5878012/chevys-anti+gt500-pro+camaro-zl1-smack+talking-powerpoint

Another shot taken at Ford. :lol:

http://jalopnik.com/5878012/chevys-anti+gt500-pro+camaro-zl1-smack+talking-powerpoint

And the plot thickens.

The rumor is Ford is having a problem making the new GT500 stick. It wants to wheel hop.

When I had a 69 Camaro 30 years ago Ford had the same problem then. Then again so did I. I don't now

not gonna lie id take a auto ZL1 and trade in my c5z. get rid of my pickup truck and only have one vehicle.

Another shot taken at Ford. :lol:

http://jalopnik.com/5878012/chevys-anti+gt500-pro+camaro-zl1-smack+talking-powerpoint

HAHA! love it....in case you want to use the car the way we intended it to be...make all of the mods and we'll take our warranty back.

Another shot taken at Ford. :lol:

http://jalopnik.com/5878012/chevys-anti+gt500-pro+camaro-zl1-smack+talking-powerpoint

HAHA! Wow, this guy is clearly really scared of what the 2013 GT500 is going to do to his ZL1 when it comes out.

HAHA! Wow, this guy is clearly really scared of what the 2013 GT500 is going to do to his ZL1 when it comes out.True.
Sort of like how some current/2012 GT500 owners might be scared of what the ZL1 will do to their cars when it comes out? ;) :D

On paper there is no debate but races don't happen on paper. How many high horsepower cars have you seen lose to cars with less power because they had the right combination of driver mod and traction? I see it all the time and it's always funny when a 500HP car beats a 700HP car, hell for the sake of the argument I beat a few high hp cars in my trans am when it wasn't making much power. Once these two cars are on the strip together we will see what happens.

Now we're using the argument of "good driver in the ZL1 beats an average driver in the GT500," which is an apples to oranges comparison. That's why in my scenarios I'm assuming both drivers are good. I'm sure people in stock Chevy Tahoes have outrun F-Bods due to a bad driver, but that doesn't mean I consider the Tahoe to be the superior performance vehicle.

True.
Sort of like how some current/2012 GT500 owners might be scared of what the ZL1 will do to their cars when it comes out? ;) :D

Meh, all they have to do is buy a set of tires and they won't have a problem. 2011/12 GT500s still have a better power/weight ratio then the ZL1 does, which is pretty sad on Chevys part for not even beating the current car.

since when did we all become autocross warriors???? thats the only argument GM has been claiming, "the ZL1 is faster at the Nürburgring..." who gives a flyin flip if its faster at the Nürburgring, most people here are gonna drag race it, and to that point, it will get its ass dragged down the track by the GT500.

Since the fact the straight line performance is only one dimension, nurburg ring is respect around the world as the ultimate test because it tests EVERYTHING, breaks, handling, acceleration ect.

Half-assing a car to make it go only fast in a straight line you'll end up with a plastic box with a big engine, a stereotypical american car, were trying to get away from that reputation, to say we make "all around" great cars.

It's a horrible debate though. Driver matters more at a track like the ring then the car does, and Chevy has an awesome driver.

I think it's funny how this guy keeps trying to defend the ZL1 against a car that hasn't been released yet, while all Ford has said is they made it to increase the gap between the Boss and the GT500. I think that shows that this guy already knows the ZL1 is going to get its ass handed to it everywhere.

I can't recall the last time the chief engineer of a car was bench racing his car against one that hasn't come out yet, only to talk about how much better his car is then one he and nobody else hasn't tested. :lol:

Yea cause there is only 1 expert Ring driver out there and GM happen to have him right? :eyes: Not Vipers, Ferraris, Lambos, Porsches, Zondas ect.? Ford can't find another "good" driver? You have funny logics

Yea cause there is only 1 expert Ring driver out there and GM happen to have him right? :eyes: Not Vipers, Ferraris, Lambos, Porsches, Zondas ect.? Ford can't find another "good" driver? You have funny logics

I have funny logics? How can you say Ring times have any weight in a debate when they are done by different drivers on different days? And we are talking about an almost 13 mile race track here, where I would bet a great driver could easily have a 10-20sec difference between his own laps. The only thing Ring times are good for is fuel for a fanboys fire.

I have funny logics? How can you say Ring times have any weight in a debate when they are done by different drivers on different days? And we are talking about an almost 13 mile race track here, where I would bet a great driver could easily have a 10-20sec difference between his own laps. The only thing Ring times are good for is fuel for a fanboys fire.

You have funny logic because

a.you think GM has THE ONE only good driver that can do a lap? Ford doesn't have "good" drivers? and

b. you don't think they hold their cars tests for days that the weather is clear? So it gives the best lap result to brag about to the media? You are 100% incorrect to think Ford(or any company) doesn't wouldn't even out the playing field, that's why you've got funny logic.

All the sudden it's 75 and sunny at the Ring when GM is testing with their test driver michael shoemaker vs. Ford testing in a hail and an 87yr old grandma driving their GT500?

Stop denying the fact that the Ring is a wold wide respectable bench mark for a reason...

Even if the GT500 wins at the strip but loses Ring, ZL1 still wins, because it shows it's overall ability.

I'm not talking ish, I'm just saying "what-ifs". Because the Ring is respected around the world, where as drag-strips are mainly for america.

The simple fact is no of us are gonna go to ring to test the two cars. Hell, 99.99% of the racing will be straight line battles and not circuit track racing.

The simple fact is that this is all for bragging rights, my car is better than your car ect. Even if I don't go to the ring, I'd like to know that my car is faster in a OVERALL test versus just acceleration.

Are you gonna do 200+ mph top speed of the GT500 on the road? Maybe... but majority wont actually, it's the principle of the fact that "My car can do XYZ" ect.

What good is it knowing its faster OVERALL if you would'nt be able to exploit it...just as you stated. We dont even know if the ZL1 will be faster than the 2012 GT500, muchless the 2013.

You have funny logic because

a.you think GM has THE ONE only good driver that can do a lap? Ford doesn't have "good" drivers? and

b. you don't think they hold their cars tests for days that the weather is clear? So it gives the best lap result to brag about to the media? You are 100% incorrect to think Ford(or any company) doesn't wouldn't even out the playing field, that's why you've got funny logic.

All the sudden it's 75 and sunny at the Ring when GM is testing with their test driver michael shoemaker vs. Ford testing in a hail and an 87yr old grandma driving their GT500?

Stop denying the fact that the Ring is a wold wide respectable bench mark for a reason...


I never said Ford had a shitty driver and GM a great one, simply that GMs driver is more than likely better as the ZR1 and Z06 have posted some amazing times. And I never said they were testing on days where the weather was shitty for one and good for the other, but 75 and sunny for both days doesn't mean the track is going to be in the same condition. It doesn't matter even if they both have great drivers, like I said even with the same driver around a THIRTEEN MILE road course is going to have a fairly large difference in time one lap to the next, you are talking two different drivers on two different days.

I don't think any educated gear head, regardless of where they are from, is going to use Ring times as an argument for which car is better. Nutswinggers and fanboys, yes, but true car guys are smart enough to know they are useless.

One thing is for sure though, the ZL1 can't outrun ugly.

One thing is for sure though, the ZL1 can't outrun ugly.

well, thats your opinion ;)

well, thats your opinion ;)

^^^ What he said!

Another shot taken at Ford. :lol:

http://jalopnik.com/5878012/chevys-anti+gt500-pro+camaro-zl1-smack+talking-powerpoint

Wow, you have got to be kidding me. At first I was neutral about this, but now I kind of want the GT500 to whoop up on the ZL1 just so I can look back and laugh at all of this nonsense.

I never said Ford had a shitty driver and GM a great one, simply that GMs driver is more than likely better as the ZR1 and Z06 have posted some amazing times. And I never said they were testing on days where the weather was shitty for one and good for the other, but 75 and sunny for both days doesn't mean the track is going to be in the same condition. It doesn't matter even if they both have great drivers, like I said even with the same driver around a THIRTEEN MILE road course is going to have a fairly large difference in time one lap to the next, you are talking two different drivers on two different days.

I don't think any educated gear head, regardless of where they are from, is going to use Ring times as an argument for which car is better. Nutswinggers and fanboys, yes, but true car guys are smart enough to know they are useless.

I think the Ring is just a representation of "handling". If the magazines did their test at Laguna Seca(for example) and the GT500 won, then you can blame "THIRTEEN MILES" factor. Until then we patiently wait...

someone needs to fire him..

^ agree

What good is it knowing its faster OVERALL if you would'nt be able to exploit it...just as you stated. We dont even know if the ZL1 will be faster than the 2012 GT500, muchless the 2013.

Let it go, obviously the car doesn't appeal to you. Someone who likes to autocross their car on any given time or drive the car hard and still have a warranty, are the ones who take those numbers into account. People who like to push they're cars to the limits will take those numbers into account. And going from your logic why would anyone buy a Ferrari? Very few owners will actually push those cars to their limit.

shitbox

So the ZL1 might be faster to 60 due to traction issues on the GT500's part. But as soon as those tires hook up to the ground the GT500's lighter weight and additional horsepower will pull ahead. I expect the ZL1 to get raped in the 1/4 mile against the GT500, and since the car isn't officially released yet...they will probably do more laps at the Nurburgring.

Let it go, obviously the car doesn't appeal to you. Someone who likes to autocross their car on any given time or drive the car hard and still have a warranty, are the ones who take those numbers into account. People who like to push they're cars to the limits will take those numbers into account. And going from your logic why would anyone buy a Ferrari? Very few owners will actually push those cars to their limit.

Why do people buy Ferrari??? Wild guess, but thats more of a status symbol thing than anything else. I have nothing againt the ZL1, its a great car. What i do have a problem with is the way GM is marketing it. I understand they want to reassure the camaro fans they have nothing to worry about just to keep the pre-orders coming in..but numbers dont lie. Why did they choose to release and test it at a 3rd world track that doesnt keep timed runs of previously tested cars(like VIR,Leguna Seca, etc. do)...Ford debuted the Boss at Leguna Seca. Seems like GM didnt want to have the ZL1 compared to other tested vehicles. Why didnt GM find a GT500 to test against the ZL1 since they claimed it is its direct competition??? I would think that GT500s are more readily available than the Leguna Seca Boss And before anyone brings up 'But they ran it at the Ring'..i dont put much stock in those Ring numbers cause we all know that most manufacuters skew test results (blame Nissan for discrediting testing procedures). Also, i think GM tried to tilt the results in their favor by testing both cars in high altitude. But like i said before, i understand GM claiming that the ZL1 will beat the GT500 just to avoid order cancellations, but i think its a punk move on their part.

I think its pretty funny everyone is getting worked up about the cheif engineer being confident in his vehicle. Everyone is jumpin to conclusions like two rival car clubs before a street race or something. Seems to me the zl1 has more technology in it from what ive read. It beat the BOSS 302 Laguna Seca by 2.5 secs around Laguna Seca, and not because of power. Maybe Ford can get their gt500 to hook up.. only time will tell.. BUT if the zl1 came out with the ls9 everyone would have a different story. I'm sure if the chief engineer woulda known about the power rating of the new gt500 they woulda thrown the ls9 in it, there cant be that much difference in between lsa and ls9 price wise from a production standpoint. I thought the powerpoint was pretty funny noting that gt500 owners will have to do extra for track duty or it would void their warranty and the Camaro is fully backed straight off the show room floor. If he didnt make it known, I'm sure someone else would have on the internet somewhere.. I love the new mustangs I would own one, probably before I bought a 5th gen Camaro, and I'm hardcore chevy. They are impressive. But the zl1 is a pretty awesome piece of machinery.

Because we live in the twenty teens and expect cars to do more than just shoot down the road in a straight line.

Seriously...
Right...because I chase cars through all of the curvy roads on my way to work to see if I can pass them or not.....

I love the "we did simulatios" line and saying the Z is faster to 60. It sounds like they know it's not faster anywhere else, lol.

It seems they are trying pretty hard to get press for the car in the wake of the GT500s debut. I can't wait for the head to head amtchups to roll in!!!

70 more horses plus about 300 pounds lighter. Hell, the weight difference alone is why the LS1 Vette outruns the LS1 F-body.

If both cars get traction at the drag strip, this is seriously a no-brainer. The 'Ring time is what is up for debate. My guess is Ford can't match the ZL1's time, and that's why it hasn't released a time yet. With the technology in the ZL1, I don't doubt that it will be the better car for all-around performance. But to deny that the GT500 will hand the ZL1 its ass on the drag strip (assuming good traction) is a bit naive.

Ford did not rent the track out and close it down in an attempt to get a "record run".

I'm sure it could be kept in line with the GT500.

The price difference of 13k msrp between the shortblocks would probably lead to a little higher sticker.....People are already complaiing about 55k.

True.
Sort of like how some current/2012 GT500 owners might be scared of what the ZL1 will do to their cars when it comes out? ;) :D

lol

Hardly.....I will post pics of my new plates when they come in ;)

Dodge just announced a 685 hp 7 speed dct Challenger for 2013. This will be interesting.

One thing is for sure though, the ZL1 can't outrun ugly.Well, for that matter, no car can LOL. :D
But I would NEVER call the ZL1 (or any 5th gen) ugly, but that too is merely an opinion.
Do I like it's looks more than the current Mustang's (especially the GT500)?
I'm not sure as I think both cars look awesome and pay a very honorable homage to their respective original counterparts. :nod:

Dodge just announced a 685 hp 7 speed dct Challenger for 2013. This will be interesting.:eek2: :werd: :cool:

I'm so happy to hear that not only for the usual/obvious reasons (I like Challengers, all SRT8 vehicles in general for that matter and, it will also keep that current fire lit underneath the Camaro's and Mustang's asses) but also for what it could mean for the next Viper and Corvette as far as transmissions go. :thumb:

http://youtu.be/4rqeCLYxy9k
http://youtu.be/NnfSktB4j_I
http://youtu.be/HzEwp4GoSZo
http://youtu.be/7ABSlnD_OsQ
http://youtu.be/qdPOF9TV5lU
http://youtu.be/39JKb77FrjA

Just look at the engineering that went into the Zl1. They turned a Camaro into a factory race car that could compete with the best! Idk what Ford has done with the new GT500 besides the new powerplant, but I feel very confident the ZL1 will be a much better car even if it won't win in a straight line! The complete build specs of the ZL1 from bumper to bumper is just jaw-dropping. I will give GM it's credit for this one even though I could never see myself owning one (I'm much rather get a Z06).

I wouldn't hesitate to put 800rwhp through the factory drivetrain in the ZL1 and I bet you it would handle it with no sweat at the drag strip, road course, or even daily driving. Usually, the car makers cheap out on a lot of components when building a car, there's countless examples of this (4L60E, 10-bolt anyone? Other manufactures have faults to I'm sure but I'm giving the Fbody examples). Not on the ZL1 though, everything is beefed up and stronger to handle the 580HP in the most outrageous conditions. If anyone knows, the real test of a car is on the road course. Not because of handling or timeslips, but the amount of stress every single nut and bolt on the car will be exposed to. Nothing compares to a race track. If there's a weakpoint, it will find it!

IMO the ZL1 is 10 times the car. My .02 cents! Cheers :chug:

http://youtu.be/4rqeCLYxy9k
http://youtu.be/NnfSktB4j_I
http://youtu.be/HzEwp4GoSZo
http://youtu.be/7ABSlnD_OsQ
http://youtu.be/qdPOF9TV5lU
http://youtu.be/39JKb77FrjA

Just look at the engineering that went into the Zl1. They turned a Camaro into a factory race car that could compete with the best! Idk what Ford has done with the new GT500 besides the new powerplant, but I feel very confident the ZL1 will be a much better car even if it won't win in a straight line! The complete build specs of the ZL1 from bumper to bumper is just jaw-dropping. I will give GM it's credit for this one even though I could never see myself owning one (I'm much rather get a Z06).

I wouldn't hesitate to put 800rwhp through the factory drivetrain in the ZL1 and I bet you it would handle it with no sweat at the drag strip, road course, or even daily driving. Usually, the car makers cheap out on a lot of components when building a car, there's countless examples of this (4L60E, 10-bolt anyone? Other manufactures have faults to I'm sure but I'm giving the Fbody examples). Not on the ZL1 though, everything is beefed up and stronger to handle the 580HP in the most outrageous conditions. If anyone knows, the real test of a car is on the road course. Not because of handling or timeslips, but the amount of stress every single nut and bolt on the car will be exposed to. Nothing compares to a race track. If there's a weakpoint, it will find it!

IMO the ZL1 is 10 times the car. My .02 cents! Cheers :chug:

How many ZL1s have you driven Sir?

I'll take the ZL1 for Road America and the Mustang for drag racing......
Wait a second! I already have a drag car. I guess I'll just just take a ZL1......
Eh maybe buy a used C6 Z06 and just run that....

How many ZL1s have you driven Sir?

Ha, not only that, but don't the current GT500s handle 1000whp without touching the engine? What has the CTS-V put down for power? IDK that this engine is going to hold up to 800whp (ZL1) with the pistons they are putting in them. Add to that the fact that they are changing A LOT on the GT500 other than just the engine, they just aren't trying so hard to sell it to people. (650HP and 200+mph is all they need to say though :devil:)

Dodge just announced a 685 hp 7 speed dct Challenger for 2013. This will be interesting.

Where? When I search for this the only thing coming up is your post.

Just look at the engineering that went into the Zl1. They turned a Camaro into a factory race car that could compete with the best! Idk what Ford has done with the new GT500 besides the new powerplant, but I feel very confident the ZL1 will be a much better car even if it won't win in a straight line! The complete build specs of the ZL1 from bumper to bumper is just jaw-dropping. I will give GM it's credit for this one even though I could never see myself owning one (I'm much rather get a Z06).

I wouldn't hesitate to put 800rwhp through the factory drivetrain in the ZL1 and I bet you it would handle it with no sweat at the drag strip, road course, or even daily driving. Usually, the car makers cheap out on a lot of components when building a car, there's countless examples of this (4L60E, 10-bolt anyone? Other manufactures have faults to I'm sure but I'm giving the Fbody examples). Not on the ZL1 though, everything is beefed up and stronger to handle the 580HP in the most outrageous conditions. If anyone knows, the real test of a car is on the road course. Not because of handling or timeslips, but the amount of stress every single nut and bolt on the car will be exposed to. Nothing compares to a race track. If there's a weakpoint, it will find it!

IMO the ZL1 is 10 times the car. My .02 cents! Cheers :chug:

I don't know how you can jump to a conclusion like this when nobody has even tested the GT500 yet? You really don't know how much car it will actually be until it has been tested against some worthwhile competitors. I love watching GM's well-edited videos and segments hyping this car up, it's awesome, but at the end of the day it's just marketing, I don't personally feed into ALL of what they say about it. I'm saving my judgement for when the real comparison tests start to surface.

i wonder if a zl1 conversion is available for SSs or at least some parts.

Even if the GT500 wins at the strip but loses Ring, ZL1 still wins, because it shows it's overall ability.

I'm not talking ish, I'm just saying "what-ifs". Because the Ring is respected around the world, where as drag-strips are mainly for america.

Actually, most people have realized that the Ring is mostly hype and the times are pretty useless.

A lot of the track times for the Ring have been set by independents and achieved in a short amount of time.

For example, the ZR1's quickest lap was the best of only three clean laps. The others involved traffic because GM didn't rent the track.

Then there's the old C6 Z06 time that was done from a dig rather than a roll.

And believe me, there are many many more examples.

Actually, most people have realized that the Ring is mostly hype and the times are pretty useless.

A lot of the track times for the Ring have been set by independents and achieved in a short amount of time.

For example, the ZR1's quickest lap was the best of only three clean laps. The others involved traffic because GM didn't rent the track.

Then there's the old C6 Z06 time that was done from a dig rather than a roll.

And believe me, there are many many more examples.The ring isn't hyped brother. If a car can perform there it can perform anywhere in the world. It's where great cars are born. Stop being a f&cking hater on a car you won't even buy.

Don't even respond. Nobody wants to read your hatred.

The ring isn't hyped brother. If a car can perform there it can perform anywhere in the world. It's where great cars are born. Stop being a f&cking hater on a car you won't even buy.

Whoah there slugger, calm down.

Why don't you tell us how you really feel? lol

I'm not hating on this car, it is clearly very capable, just from how it performed on other tracks.

But there's no denying that there is a lot of hype surrounding nordschleife times.
As others have said, there is a lot of inconsistency on the Ring. Drivers, conditions, time spent there, etc.
Want a perfect example? The RS4 managed a 7:54 with Frank Stippler behind the wheel (someone you've probably never heard of).
Now, are you going to sit behind your keyboard and tell me that the RS4's time is an indicator that it is faster than the 2nd gen CTS-V?
The V only managed a 7:59 btw.

Sorry you haven't noticed the 'Ring hype and that you clearly have a bit of sand in tight places tonight.:|

Whoah there slugger, calm down.

Why don't you tell us how you really feel? lol

I'm not hating on this car, it is clearly very capable, just from how it performed on other tracks.

But there's no denying that there is a lot of hype surrounding nordschleife times.
As others have said, there is a lot of inconsistency on the Ring. Drivers, conditions, time spent there, etc.
Want a perfect example? The RS4 managed a 7:54 with Frank Stippler behind the wheel (someone you've probably never heard of).
Now, are you going to sit behind your keyboard and tell me that the RS4's time is an indicator that it is faster than the 2nd gen CTS-V?
The V only managed a 7:59 btw.

Sorry you haven't realized that and have a bit of sand in tight places.:|I just put a bait out there to see if you would. Just messing with you.

To the poster who said GM is the only one with a decent Ring driver, you couldn't be more wrong.

There is a plethora of superb nordschleife racers.
I suggest you look up the 24 hours of Nurburgring race.

I just put a bait out there to see if you would. Just messing with you.

You little son of a...

I was wondering why in the world an F1 fan would swing from the Ring's nuts...:lol:

I don't know how you can jump to a conclusion like this when nobody has even tested the GT500 yet? You really don't know how much car it will actually be until it has been tested against some worthwhile competitors. I love watching GM's well-edited videos and segments hyping this car up, it's awesome, but at the end of the day it's just marketing, I don't personally feed into ALL of what they say about it. I'm saving my judgement for when the real comparison tests start to surface.

Muscle Mustangs and Fast Fords ran a test on it already. The 13 GT500 is due to be released in April 2012. They couldn't release the track times, but the editor said he estimates it should be capable of 11.6s @124-126. The new cars come with launch control, a 5.8L DOHC, 2.3L TVS, electronic shocks, etc... Should be pretty fast.

Both cars are impressive though and everyone should be proud of them. For the ZL1, well, I think the GT500 is going to pull away quick. My guess is the next year of the ZL1 will have more power.

Since the "American way" is the 1/4 mile, it's just built in the American's car DNA to make the it JUST go fast straight, that's it. But when a company tries to make it an all-around performer, you say "Where am I gonna use it?".

Look at the Vette for instance, performance, comfort, great mpg, great trunk space. A ferrari beater for the fraction of the price BUT! A big BUT! The interior feels super cheap and the seats aren't up to par with it's competitors, and 100k vette has the same steering wheel as a cobalt. Yes, it's an amazing machine with minimal drawbacks, but it gives the magazines and the enthusiast something to complain at. Personally the interior is tolerable, but the steering wheel is just unacceptable, no excuse!

It's like when south-park did their NASCAR episode, and how Cartman was the stereo typical redneck and all the drivers were actually very professional and far from the redneck image. America is trying to not be the stereotypical "brick with a big engine" anymore, and personally I think there should be more support for it, not "When Am I gonna use that?" type of

Muscle Mustangs and Fast Fords ran a test on it already. The 13 GT500 is due to be released in April 2012. They couldn't release the track times, but the editor said he estimates it should be capable of 11.6s @124-126. The new cars come with launch control, a 5.8L DOHC, 2.3L TVS, electronic shocks, etc... Should be pretty fast.

Both cars are impressive though and everyone should be proud of them. For the ZL1, well, I think the GT500 is going to pull away quick. My guess is the next year of the ZL1 will have more power.

It has to be quicker than 11.6. With that power I think 11.0/11.1/11.2 minimum.

Look at the Vette for instance, performance, comfort, great mpg, great trunk space. A ferrari beater for the fraction of the price BUT! A big BUT! The interior feels super cheap and the seats aren't up to par with it's competitors, and 100k vette has the same steering wheel as a cobalt. Yes, it's an amazing machine with minimal drawbacks, but it gives the magazines and the enthusiast something to complain at. Personally the interior is tolerable, but the steering wheel is just unacceptable, no excuse!


Meh, the horseshit seats are what has always been a major let down to me. The Trans Am had better seats in it than any Corvette (except for the brand new seats they came out with, but even those are weak at best for a sports car like the Corvette).

On paper the 'stang has higher numbers, but what also matters (and what many seem to forget) is WHEN those numbers kick in. Peak numbers are nice, but what is available through the power band? That curve matters more than the peak number.

Look at the Vette for instance, performance, comfort, great mpg, great trunk space. A ferrari beater for the fraction of the price BUT! A big BUT! The interior feels super cheap and the seats aren't up to par with it's competitors, and 100k vette has the same steering wheel as a cobalt. Yes, it's an amazing machine with minimal drawbacks, but it gives the magazines and the enthusiast something to complain at. Personally the interior is tolerable, but the steering wheel is just unacceptable, no excuse!


Uh.

It's a cheap performance car, if it had nice interior, it would be an expensive performance car.

Uh.

It's a cheap performance car, if it had nice interior, it would be an expensive performance car.

120k for ZR1 and 90k for Z06 is far from "cheap"

CTS-V has a very impressive interior... you can argue that Cadillac is the luxury car BUT you can't argue that 120k should be able to buy you a car without cutting corners.

120k for ZR1 and 90k for Z06 is far from "cheap"

CTS-V has a very impressive interior... you can argue that Cadillac is the luxury car BUT you can't argue that 120k should be able to buy you a car without cutting corners.

Cheap considering what car's they are contending with... Ferrari's, Austin's, Lamborghini's.

What would you buy instead that produces similar performance numbers for 120k?

Cheap considering what car's they are contending with... Ferrari's, Austin's, Lamborghini's.

What would you buy instead that produces similar performance numbers for 120k?

You are not getting what I'm saying sir. I'm giving the vette constructive criticism, not bashing it. It's no secret that the vette is amazing performance wise, and it's also no secret that the vette has a much worse interior than the V and the Cobras. What part of "A 120k car should not have the same steering wheel as a 15k cobalt" is acceptable to you? The fact that it can do a fast 0-60? wrong! Doing one thing correct doesn't justify making some other part of a car half-ass.

I really really really doubt that the next corvette wont have a fantastic interior, and it'll still be the same price range (increase a couple of thousand, as do every generation of new vehicle that comes out).

Cheap considering what car's they are contending with... Ferrari's, Austin's, Lamborghini's.

What would you buy instead that produces similar performance numbers for 120k?

GT-R comes to mind.

You are not getting what I'm saying sir. I'm giving the vette constructive criticism, not bashing it. It's no secret that the vette is amazing performance wise, and it's also no secret that the vette has a much worse interior than the V and the Cobras. What part of "A 120k car should not have the same steering wheel as a 15k cobalt" is acceptable to you? The fact that it can do a fast 0-60? wrong! Doing one thing correct doesn't justify making some other part of a car half-ass.

Yes, actually, it is acceptable to me. Since a 997 GT2 which does 0-60 in 3.4 seconds (as opposed to the ZR-1's 3.3) is 245,000$ and a Ferrari 458 Italia which does 0-60 in around 3.4 second's as well, is in the 200,000$+ range. It's all a matter of opinion, if you don't want a car with shitty interior, don't buy a corvette.

If I was buying a corvette, I wouldn't really care about the interior. I would care that it weighs nothing, make's obscene amounts of power, and handles like it's on rails.

Most people (including myself) think that the interior is junk in Corvette's, but what I'm saying is that the target audience for that car was meant for someone who wants to hang with Ferrari's in terms of performance whilst not paying the Ferrari premium.

GT-R comes to mind.

I've never actually been in a GT-R, so I can't really say on the interior.

But the idea is similar, a fast car with a limited budget, you can only spread said budget so thin.

I've never actually been in a GT-R, so I can't really say on the interior.

But the idea is similar, a fast car with a limited budget, you can only spread said budget so thin.

In that price range you mentioned there won't be many other than vettes, GT-R and I think that's it.

There have been many changes in the 2013 GT500 that will make a positive difference in 0-60 and 1/4 mile times. The big difference is transmission and differential gearing selection.

1st gear in the T6060 was previously 2.97 from 2007-2012, the 2013 reduced that to 2.66

The 2013 also returns to the standard 3.31 rear differential gear ratio. This combination will allow the car to achieve 0-60 in first gear. Since the driver doesn't have to shift, 0-60 times will be faster.

The lack of aggressive gearing will improve the cars ability to use 1st gear with all of that power and torque. You have to remember, TVS blowers have the widest/flatest torque curve of all blowers. This car will have 90% of max torque at only 2,000 rpm. That was a lot for the previous cars to handle and why dig traction was such an issue with previous models. SVT aimed to change that, and I hope it makes the difference.

Other performance additions are a factory carbon fiber drive shaft, the new 5.8L engine that is a slightly modified 5.4L, the new factory 2.3L TVS, and of course the electronic suspension for handling.

i like how everyone bitches about interior in cars that are meant to race. some of you would hate a mclaren F1. :)

On paper the 'stang has higher numbers, but what also matters (and what many seem to forget) is WHEN those numbers kick in. Peak numbers are nice, but what is available through the power band? That curve matters more than the peak number.

There have been many changes in the 2013 GT500 that will make a positive difference in 0-60 and 1/4 mile times. The big difference is transmission and differential gearing selection.

1st gear in the T6060 was previously 2.97 from 2007-2012, the 2013 reduced that to 2.66

The 2013 also returns to the standard 3.31 rear differential gear ratio. This combination will allow the car to achieve 0-60 in first gear. Since the driver doesn't have to shift, 0-60 times will be faster.

The lack of aggressive gearing will improve the cars ability to use 1st gear with all of that power and torque. You have to remember, TVS blowers have the widest/flatest torque curve of all blowers. This car will have 90% of max torque at only 2,000 rpm. That was a lot for the previous cars to handle and why dig traction was such an issue with previous models. SVT aimed to change that, and I hope it makes the difference.

Other performance additions are a factory carbon fiber drive shaft, the new 5.8L engine that is a slightly modified 5.4L, the new factory 2.3L TVS, and of course the electronic suspension for handling.

Thank you.

The interior feels super cheapOh, I wouldn't go that far LOL. I know the point you're trying to make here and that this is not the main focus of it, but just wanted to point out that the overall interior quality of even the base C6 interior is not nearly as bad as some people make it out to be. It's not quite the '1985 Camaro' type interior they seem to be mixing it up with LOL. ;) The feel (and even fit) of some of the materials used is quite good and solid actually.
And then of course there's the optional upgraded interiors:

http://www.boston.com/cars/newsandreviews/overdrive/assets_c/2011/04/2012-Corvette-Centennial-interior-thumb-607x404-38684.jpg





and a Ferrari 458 Italia which does 0-60 in around 3.4 second's as well, is in the 200,000$+ range.Actually closer to $300k+ right now. :eek: :)

and 100k vette has the same steering wheel as a cobalt. Yes, it's an amazing machine with minimal drawbacks, but it gives the magazines and the enthusiast something to complain at.
but the steering wheel is just unacceptable, no excuse!What part of "A 120k car should not have the same steering wheel as a 15k cobalt" is acceptable to you?You do have a point there, but please, please don't point fingers at ONLY GM/Chevrolet/Team Corvette for doing that.
Other manufacturers do it as well. Yet why don't those same magazines and enthusiasts you speak of ever mention that? A little biased perhaps?:huh: ;)
For instance, $105k+ Mercedes SL550 Night Edition using a nearly identical steering wheel as the $34k C250?

http://www.autorika.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/2011-Mercedes-Benz-SL550-Night-Edition-%E2%80%93-Interior-View-670x502.jpg


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-T1Eimj0XVtA/TemQKQhfdFI/AAAAAAAAAVI/KIin6zesa1U/s1600/Mercedes-Benz-C-Class-Interior.jpg



$137k+ BMW 760iL:

http://autowallpapers.net/pictures/m/BMW_760Li_Sedan_2010_Interior.jpg


$28k BMW 128i:

http://image.motortrend.com/f/9518613+w1500+ar1+st0/112_0802_07z+2008_BMW_128_coupe+interior_view.jpg

Yeah, but those steering wheels are way better :lol:

Yeah, but those steering wheels are way better :lol:Maybe.
But I've seen worse than this, even in some more costly vehicles as well:

http://www.ecarv.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/2012-Chevrolet-Corvette-Z06-Centennial-Edition-Interior-View-760x537.png

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_nfjXQlmnPtc/S6X-xRGeyvI/AAAAAAAAAXw/Pr3ijmYY4Dc/s1600/Corvette-Carbon-Special-3.jpg

http://www.roogio.com/images/2012-Chevrolet-Centennial-Edition-interior-steering-wheel-600x399.jpg

What's up with the interior fetishes in here? If you want nice interior you should be looking at a new 7 series or an S65 AMG or something like that, these are straight up performance cars, why does it matter so much?

What's up with the interior fetishes in here? If you want nice interior you should be looking at a new 7 series or an S65 AMG or something like that, these are straight up performance cars, why does it matter so much?

Because, everyone has to find at least something wrong with a car just to have something to complain about. It's like the Camaro if it were 300lbs lighter and had a far "better" interior pretty sure everyone would have something else to complain about it then.


Just how it goes...for me interior isn't a big issue with a performance car I mean I did buy a 4th gen after all. :jest:

I know there are a ton of fast GT500s out there I just never see any at my local track. I see a bunch of "I have XYZ hp" but run 13s. Just saying...

This is the case around here too. We have a couple procharged Vettes that run 9s and a whole bunch of "lets go to the track and see what it will dos" that don't.

You do have a point there, but please, please don't point fingers at ONLY GM/Chevrolet/Team Corvette for doing that.
Other manufacturers do it as well.

Thank you for saving me a bunch of time. I was about to post something similar. Especially with all of the stuff packed into a steering wheel now, I would imagine any design changes become pretty costly. Why "reinvent the wheel" so to speak.

Now we have derailed to steering wheels?

What's up with the interior fetishes in here?
these are straight up performance cars, why does it matter so much?Because, everyone has to find at least something wrong with a car just to have something to complain about. It's like the Camaro if it were 300lbs lighter and had a far "better" interior pretty sure everyone would have something else to complain about it then.

Just how it goes...for me interior isn't a big issue with a performance car Thank you for saving me a bunch of time. I was about to post something similar. Especially with all of the stuff packed into a steering wheel now, I would imagine any design changes become pretty costly. Why "reinvent the wheel" so to speak.:werd:x 10 :nod: :)






Now we have derailed to steering wheels?:nod: :hijack: :offtopic: :read: :ripped: :spam: :sucks: :lol: ;)

Well at least it started out as a good thread... ;)

You do have a point there, but please, please don't point fingers at ONLY GM/Chevrolet/Team Corvette for doing that.
Other manufacturers do it as well. Yet why don't those same magazines and enthusiasts you speak of ever mention that? A little biased perhaps?:huh: ;)
For instance, $105k+ Mercedes SL550 Night Edition using a nearly identical steering wheel as the $34k C250?

http://www.autorika.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/2011-Mercedes-Benz-SL550-Night-Edition-%E2%80%93-Interior-View-670x502.jpg


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-T1Eimj0XVtA/TemQKQhfdFI/AAAAAAAAAVI/KIin6zesa1U/s1600/Mercedes-Benz-C-Class-Interior.jpg



$137k+ BMW 760iL:

http://wallpapers-diq.net/wallpapers/17/BMW_760Li_Sedan_2010_Interior.jpg


$28k BMW 128i:

http://image.motortrend.com/f/9518613+w1500+ar1+st0/112_0802_07z+2008_BMW_128_coupe+interior_view.jpg

Yes, but as you can see the base model's BMW has a good steering wheel to begin with. I understand that every car maker does share steering wheels but they share if it's the same class of cars. 3-series shares the 3-series, 5 with 5, 7 with 7 and ect. and usually the M cars have something fancier in their cars. The 335 has something above the 328.

To me a 15k budget car cobalt having a same steering wheel as a 120k top of the line The-Best-Performance car GM has ever built is not ok.

And the GT-R has a great interior btw.

Maybe.
But I've seen worse than this, even in some more costly vehicles as well:

http://www.ecarv.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/2012-Chevrolet-Corvette-Z06-Centennial-Edition-Interior-View-760x537.png

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_nfjXQlmnPtc/S6X-xRGeyvI/AAAAAAAAAXw/Pr3ijmYY4Dc/s1600/Corvette-Carbon-Special-3.jpg

http://www.roogio.com/images/2012-Chevrolet-Centennial-Edition-interior-steering-wheel-600x399.jpg

Not gonna lie, the centennial corvette's interior is noticeably better looking, and thats mainly because of the suede. To me it's about the material used, not necessarily the finish. If you remember the Crossfire SRT-6, everything about the interior was horrible and terribly cheap except the leather and the suede seats, which I actually liked.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMcZH-1FEHo

Fast forward to 1:40, and Hammond loves american muscle and is defending the car, even it did great on the lap, but he can't deny the cheapness feel of it.

chevy poops on ford.....period

I never understood the complaints about c6 interiors. I think they are pretty damn nice. I actually like that it isn't full of a bunch of fucking fancy wood grain and bullshit like so many praised "luxury" interiors.

Do people hate the Viper interior too? I thought those felt great to sit in as well.

Do people hate the Viper interior too? I thought those felt great to sit in as well.

Either sarcasm or you don't read around much :lol: And nobody is talking lame wood-grain stuff, but higher quality materials being used.

chevy poops on ford.....period

pre-2003, I would have agreed with you.

Now, I don't

Either sarcasm or you don't read around much :lol: And nobody is talking lame wood-grain stuff, but higher quality materials being used.

^^^ what he said, I never agree with this guy, but it's not the fancyness were speaking of, it's the material quality.

I never understood the complaints about c6 interiors.
People seem to forget the price, class (and point for that matter) of the Corvette when comparing to other cars. They either compare it to cars it performs like (which are about double in price) or luxury cars in its price range than it hands their ass to in all performance aspects. And its usually just the GM haters that do it though, go figure.
Is the C6 interior perfect? Hell no. Would that stop me from buying one? Nope. Is something like the 911's interior have better quality materials? Yep. Would the lack of performance for the price compared to the Corvette stop me from buying it? Yep. Some people like to buy performance cars for their performance, others like the attention.

People seem to forget the price, class (and point for that matter) of the Corvette when comparing to other cars. They either compare it to cars it performs like (which are about double in price) or luxury cars in its price range than it hands their ass to in all performance aspects. And its usually just the GM haters that do it though, go figure.
Is the C6 interior perfect? Hell no. Would that stop me from buying one? Nope. Is something like the 911's interior have better quality materials? Yep. Would the lack of performance for the price compared to the Corvette stop me from buying it? Yep. Some people like to buy performance cars for their performance, others like the attention.

That kind of thing only comes into play with the caveat "for the money." Since the interior is where you spend your time, there are people that are wiling to either pay more or sacrifice a small amount of performance in order to get an interior that they enjoy spending time in. I love Corvettes as much as the next guy, but I am not going to fault somebody for buying something different. There are always multiple criteria that go into buying a car. And I doubt there are many "GM haters" on this forum.

My only complaint is that they could have gone with a better design and slighter more pleasant materials for the center console and the pieces inside of it.

I'm not expecting anything luxury grade, but the design is quite bland and the center console stuff is hard and dull.

Personally, I think the C5's interior design is nicer, even though the materials used are just as dull.
I just prefer how it seems to wrap around the driver more. The pieces themselves are cheaper than in the C6 though.

True.
Sort of like how some current/2012 GT500 owners might be scared of what the ZL1 will do to their cars when it comes out? ;) :D

i've never understood why anyone is "scared" of what XXX car will do to their car....unless it was gonna fall on top of it and smash it.

when i was driving my lowly geo prizm, i'd friggin try to run anything that pulled up next to me. in all obviousness i got beaten.....by pretty much everything 'cept a ford tempo.

now that i've got my 012 gt, i don't care if it's another gt, a shelby, z06, zl1.....who the fuck cares?!

the actual RACE is the fun part. winning is more fun, but i think you guys know what i mean.

all that being said, i've already ordered the CS front air dam, and a boss splitter for my gt. next will be the brake cooling ducts, and tranny cooler, then i'll look into a diff. cooler.

there shouldn't be any need to tell anyone to add them......common sense should tell em that. :D

almost forgot.....the dood in the op pic looks like one of the dorks in storage hunters...just not quite as fat.

My only complaint is that they could have gone with a better design and slighter more pleasant materials for the center console and the pieces inside of it.

I'm not expecting anything luxury grade, but the design is quite bland and the center console stuff is hard and dull.

Personally, I think the C5's interior design is nicer, even though the materials used are just as dull.
I just prefer how it seems to wrap around the driver more. The pieces themselves are cheaper than in the C6 though.

LOL @ this guy, it's good enough for what it is, no idea why you all keep nitpicking at this topic. Besides, if they were to improve the quality of the interior drastically, all it would do is drive the price up, which would take away some from what the Corvette is truly about.

That kind of thing only comes into play with the caveat "for the money." Since the interior is where you spend your time, there are people that are wiling to either pay more or sacrifice a small amount of performance in order to get an interior that they enjoy spending time in. I love Corvettes as much as the next guy, but I am not going to fault somebody for buying something different. There are always multiple criteria that go into buying a car. And I doubt there are many "GM haters" on this forum.

Exactly! It's not about "GM haters", it's constructive criticism, go to a corvette forum(which I do) and they'll point out the need for the interior improvement.

Some people will sacrifice the couple of tenth of the seconds of performance and will go purchase a CTS-V.

And IMO it's not about bragging, it's about enjoying it for yourself, like when someone tries to lose x amount of weight, not to look better for others, but to be a healthier person... people noticing is the bonus, if that makes since... :chug:

In my opinion every car has their issues, unless you spend a pretty penny, which in that case money becomes the issue. GTO: you couldn't fit big tires on it, wheel hop, not so exciting exterior(i didn't mind it). F-body: cheap interior, 10 bolt, window motor.

I think why people point out the Vettes interior a lot because there in a 120k car(not cheap) and it has such an amazing performance that they are shocked when they look around and see the performance is not matched by the interior.

The best way I can explain this, fast forward to 2:28, that's what I mean :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrRUXsDumrM

The best way I can explain this, fast forward to 2:28, that's what I mean :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrRUXsDumrM

Garbage can lid!

Well played sir...well played. :D

Both car r sick, but I'm a chevy guy

Mopar baby.

I never understood the complaints about c6 interiors. I think they are pretty damn nice.People seem to forget the price, class (and point for that matter) of the Corvette when comparing to other cars. They either compare it to cars it performs like (which are about double in price) or luxury cars in its price range than it hands their ass to in all performance aspects. And its usually just the GM haters that do it though, go figure.
Is the C6 interior perfect? Hell no. Would that stop me from buying one? Nope. Is something like the 911's interior have better quality materials? Yep. Would the lack of performance for the price compared to the Corvette stop me from buying it? Yep. Some people like to buy performance cars for their performance, others like the attention.^ This ^

Apparently GM thinks it's enough of an issue that they are allegedly making big improvements to it. A nice interior and a decent price/performance ratio don't have to be mutually exclusive.

Apparently GM thinks it's enough of an issue that they are allegedly making big improvements to it. A nice interior and a decent price/performance ratio don't have to be mutually exclusive.True. Regardless of how much some of like the current one, there are steps being taken as we speak (well, as we type LOL) to make it even better, and I welcome that. :)

And it doesn't matter how good an interior (or anything for that matter) is, there is always room for improvement. That applies to the interiors of a Corvette or even a Porsche, BMW, Mercedes Benz or whoever.
Same goes for power output, the bar seems to be getting raised a lot lately in that arena as well. :nod:

The point I'd like to drive home, is that constructive/realistic criticism should not be construed as "hating." Like I said before, I doubt there are any "GM haters" on this forum. And it is perfectly normal to like/love an imperfect car, it's the denial of those things which make it imperfect that is kinda weird.

And it is perfectly normal to like/love an imperfect car, it's the denial of those things which make it imperfect that is kinda weird.Agreed. I know and can admit my car's shortcomings, and I also expect the exact same courtesy/admissions from the Porsche or BMW fan who points fingers at a Corvette's interior as well.
No, my car does not have fine Connolly hide all over it's interior.
And their similarly (or even higher) priced variants can't run low 12s/high 11s and hit almost 190mph bone stock either. ;)

Nope, takes a 911 to run low 12s. But for many, that is more than good enough. A 911S would definitely be on my lotto list of cars, as would a Corvette or two. That post was more directed toward JD, btw.

Nope, takes a 911 to run low 12s.I'm pretty sure it's what you'd meant, but I would think at the very minimum it would take the S model (not the base 911/Carrera) to do it.
The new Carrera S does look like it'll be a pretty strong performer for sure and I do like the idea of that PDK trans. :drive:





But for many, that is more than good enough.:nod: Just as for many, the Corvette's interior is good enough as well. :D ;)

Guess I'm just easy to please. I don't like the squeaky cheap feeling fold down seat back/console in my 99 Silverado...it kinda annoys me.

But I've never noticed anything that feels that cheap or junky in a C6. My point was just when I worked at Circuit City I spent a lot of time checking out cars in the install bay and the European imports were rarely any better built to me on the inside than the decent American cars. Not talking the junk ass stuff like low end Ford or Dodge trucks which seem to be among the worst.

Sometimes it just seems like the trendy thing to bitch about when they can't find a real fault with the car somewhere else.

My only complaint is that they could have gone with a better design and slighter more pleasant materials for the center console and the pieces inside of it.

I'm not expecting anything luxury grade, but the design is quite bland and the center console stuff is hard and dull.

Personally, I think the C5's interior design is nicer, even though the materials used are just as dull.
I just prefer how it seems to wrap around the driver more. The pieces themselves are cheaper than in the C6 though.

I could care less about interiors 98% of the time, but this guy gets it.

I could care less about interiors 98% of the time, but this guy gets it.

know what i've found funny when i read reviews of the new gt? it gets/got rave reviews. know what the reviewers almost always complained about though? the lack of a telescoping wheel. i mean....WTF? LOLOLOL

I love the new GT interiors in dark colors. I don't know what it is but the light tan interior looks disgusting and gives off a cheap feel.

I do find it odd the back seats have better bolstering than the front buckets though.

that's the one thing i like better about my friends 010 camaro. when i sit in the drivers seat, it feels like it kind of hugs me in place. the seat in mine is very comfortable, but it doesn't feel as good as my friends. but then i'm faster, so i'm still happy. :D

LOL @ this guy, it's good enough for what it is, no idea why you all keep nitpicking at this topic. Besides, if they were to improve the quality of the interior drastically, all it would do is drive the price up, which would take away some from what the Corvette is truly about.

Im glad somebody else on here gets it...

Exactly! It's not about "GM haters", it's constructive criticism, go to a corvette forum(which I do) and they'll point out the need for the interior improvement.
Its gone WAY beyond the point of constructive criticism. The corvette forum guy will just shrug and say "yeah sure its not the greatest, whatever, if its not good enough ill just buy some leather wrap etc", where as the haters (generally fanboys of a competing car) will act as if the interior is made of popsicle sticks and cardboard.
One thing I love is how you won't hear anyone say anything about the interior of something like the Elise around the same price range... And before anyone crys "but those are purpose built cars", guess what? So is the Corvette. Think of it as a track car like the Elise, but actually comfortable and built better.


Some people will sacrifice the couple of tenth of the seconds of performance and will go purchase a CTS-V.

When I say performance im not talking about just strait line bs.

I think why people point out the Vettes interior a lot because there in a 120k car(not cheap) and it has such an amazing performance that they are shocked when they look around and see the performance is not matched by the interior.

The people who point out the interior are usually the ones who either own, or are fanboys of the [many] cars it beats, so naturally they need to find something to help them feel better.

ever gone to one of those movies, where they advertised the living hell out of it, so much so that it looked like the best movie ever? and then ya go to that movie, and find out how much it really sucks?
then ya go to a movie that you don't hardly see advertised? and it's friggin great?

you draw the parallel here. :D

LOL @ this guy, it's good enough for what it is, no idea why you all keep nitpicking at this topic. Besides, if they were to improve the quality of the interior drastically, all it would do is drive the price up, which would take away some from what the Corvette is truly about.

:nono:
Sigh...

I'm not nitpicking.
For christ's sake, I'm in the market for an FRC C5.:lol:
I fully know what to expect interior wise.

All I was saying is that it could be slightly improved.
Softer plastics, more sporty design.
This would not drive up the price...
Is that so much to ask for?


I could care less about interiors 98% of the time, but this guy gets it.

Thank you.:lol:

I don't care about brushed metal, wood, and leather in a sports car.
It's nice, but unnecessary.

That doesn't mean I want hard dull plastics and a boring design though.
Design in particular. Anything that enhances the driving experience (driver focus) is an obvious plus.

Im glad somebody else on here gets it...


Its gone WAY beyond the point of constructive criticism. The corvette forum guy will just shrug and say "yeah sure its not the greatest, whatever, if its not good enough ill just buy some leather wrap etc", where as the haters (generally fanboys of a competing car) will act as if the interior is made of popsicle sticks and cardboard.
One thing I love is how you won't hear anyone say anything about the interior of something like the Elise around the same price range... And before anyone crys "but those are purpose built cars", guess what? So is the Corvette. Think of it as a track car like the Elise, but actually comfortable and built better.


When I say performance im not talking about just strait line bs.

The people who point out the interior are usually the ones who either own, or are fanboys of the [many] cars it beats, so naturally they need to find something to help them feel better.
I think you just can't stand the fact that there are completely valid reasons that somebody wouldn't buy a Corvette. Your over-use of the word "fanboy" kinda points to that. Perhaps I'm thinking of somebody else, but were you the one who said they had made their interior as nice as an M3 a couple years ago?

ZL1 owns most every car in the world for autocross day. if that's the measure it rules. IMO. on street tires, im almost 100 percent sure the ZL1 will rule at the strip.


if its drag radials at the track, the low to mid 10's the 2013 GT500 will run is going to be hard to beat. 0-60mph in first gear. launch control.

Im glad somebody else on here gets it...


Its gone WAY beyond the point of constructive criticism. The corvette forum guy will just shrug and say "yeah sure its not the greatest, whatever, if its not good enough ill just buy some leather wrap etc", where as the haters (generally fanboys of a competing car) will act as if the interior is made of popsicle sticks and cardboard.
One thing I love is how you won't hear anyone say anything about the interior of something like the Elise around the same price range... And before anyone crys "but those are purpose built cars", guess what? So is the Corvette. Think of it as a track car like the Elise, but actually comfortable and built better.


When I say performance im not talking about just strait line bs.

The people who point out the interior are usually the ones who either own, or are fanboys of the [many] cars it beats, so naturally they need to find something to help them feel better.

The elise is a toy, I feel sorry for anyone that would drive it as a daily driver, even though I'm sure it can since it's a toyota engine. And interior isn't it's only problem, it's super loud and has harnesses(not comfy) and the ride is super stiff. It's a big-boy go kart pretty much, perfect for weekend drive at the canyons. Corvette on the other hand can get 28-30 mpg on the hwy and is quite comfortable, so for people that do DD it and commute with it(I know 2 people personally), it is nice if interior matched the quality.

And like someone else said, it's obviously something big enough that GM has heard it over and over again and has said that they are making major upgrades.

And I'm not hating, I'm saying the exact same things as corvette forum members, go to the C7 section and you'll see what's on top of the list on everyone's wishlist of improvements, the interior. If I was hating I'd say "screw this, I'm getting a CTS-V" but I'm not, this upcoming summer I wish to upgrade from my f-body to a C5 because it does so many things well, but the interior is just one of those "I wish..." type of category.

:nono:
Sigh...

I'm not nitpicking.
For christ's sake, I'm in the market for an FRC C5.:lol:
I fully know what to expect interior wise.

All I was saying is that it could be slightly improved.
Softer plastics, more sporty design.
This would not drive up the price...
Is that so much to ask for?





You're complaining about the quality and design of plastics in a car that's able to whoop up on other cars that's twice it's price, I'd say that's nitpicking dude.

You're complaining about the quality and design of plastics in a car that's able to whoop up on other cars that's twice it's price, I'd say that's nitpicking dude.

You just don't get it.

I'm saying the interior could be improved without effecting cost.
And such an improvement would be nice, as it could enhance the driving experience.
Do you agree?

Yes, or no?

Dude...

You just don't get it.

I'm saying the interior could be improved without effecting cost.
And such an improvement would be nice, as it could enhance the driving experience.
Do you agree?

Yes, or no?

Dude...

I don't think he understand the difference between nitpicking and constructive criticism.

Nitpicking is if I were to point out how the corvette's cupholder sucks... one specific thing. And forming your entire opinion on the cupholder alone.

Saying the entire interior needs to be rethought out, it's a different story, it's one of the 3 major categories of the car(imo), engine(power), exterior(looks), and interior(comfortable and pleasing to be in, where you spend most your time at).

No, what I don't understand or get is why you all dwell on interiors so much, especially in something like a Corvette, you all seriously need to get real. The car has SAT NAV, leather, climate control, power everything, etc., etc., I would say that's good enough for a reasonably priced world-class sports car like a Corvette. If you want a perfectly laid out fancy interior, then you should be looking at a different type of car. That is never what the Corvette has been about.

My Dad has an '07 Z51 6-speed coupe and after driving that car around for a little while, I honestly can't see why anyone who likes and appreciates performance cars could complain.

It's not complaining :bang:. I guess you think the designers at Chevrolet are just wasting their time improving the interior, huh? :eyes:

Where did I say Chevy is wasting their time by improving the Corvette's interior? That's great that they're doing that, because it's not up to par compared to a lot of it's competitors interior's and it never has been, I never said it was perfect, but it's perfectly fine for what it is. Look at the price and performance when compared to the cars it competes with, that is what truly matters to me when it comes to performance oriented cars. They put effort into the right places with it, which is the powertrain, chassis, and suspension design. As long as it's strong in all of those categories, I don't have many bad words about it at all.

Glad you're satisfied with it, but you're not their target customer. Those people have told Chevrolet they want a better interior, and they didn't just pull that out of their assess. And GM is listening... I'm very happy they are no longer satisfied with resting on their laurels.

I don't see how all this factory zl1 vs gt500 matters. Anyone that can afford these cars and actually race them will NOT leave them stock. The winner is going to be which car responds better to a certain amount of mods.
Even then it doesn't really matter because there are thousands of modified cars and trucks out there built for less than half the price of these cars that will ass rape both of them in a straight line and around corners. If I paid 60,000 for a car it better run 8's in the 1/4 and bring me breakfast in bed every morning.

Just my two cents...

Can we please stop talking about fucking vette interiors. Get a fucking grip.

The interior police says.......

http://www.lotustalk.com/forums/attachments/f68/20774d1134590211-hijack-thread-hijack.gif

I think you just can't stand the fact that there are completely valid reasons that somebody wouldn't buy a Corvette. Your over-use of the word "fanboy" kinda points to that.

No, I don't care at all honestly, even if it was a valid reason (the type of person that wouldn't buy the Corvette solely "because of the interior" is the same type of person that wouldn't buy it no matter what- they would find another excuse if the interior was perfect).
If someone doesn't like the car and doesn't want to buy it then so be it, I couldn't care less.


Perhaps I'm thinking of somebody else, but were you the one who said they had made their interior as nice as an M3 a couple years ago?
Thats definitely not me...

I don't see how all this factory zl1 vs gt500 matters. Anyone that can afford these cars and actually race them will NOT leave them stock. The winner is going to be which car responds better to a certain amount of mods.

No, if you put it that way the winner will be the owner with the deeper pockets :eyes:

Even then it doesn't really matter because there are thousands of modified cars and trucks out there built for less than half the price of these cars that will ass rape both of them in a straight line and around corners. If I paid 60,000 for a car it better run 8's in the 1/4 and bring me breakfast in bed every morning.

Just my two cents...
Do those modded cars come with a factory warranty?
In this case $60K buys you an out of the box car that has been put through its paces hard and guaranteed to last (warranty), and with all the extra options and gadgets to boot.
For $60K you're not building a reliable 8 second car that passes emissions and drives on the street well, pretty bad argument.

No, I don't care at all honestly, even if it was a valid reason (the type of person that wouldn't buy the Corvette solely "because of the interior" is the same type of person that wouldn't buy it no matter what- they would find another excuse if the interior was perfect).
If someone doesn't like the car and doesn't want to buy it then so be it, I couldn't care less.


Thats definitely not me...

Ok. You're entitled to your opinion.

No, I don't care at all honestly, even if it was a valid reason (the type of person that wouldn't buy the Corvette solely "because of the interior" is the same type of person that wouldn't buy it no matter what- they would find another excuse if the interior was perfect).
If someone doesn't like the car and doesn't want to buy it then so be it, I couldn't care less.

Couldn't agree more about the people that don't buy it "just because of the interior."

I would still buy a C5 or C6, I'm looking for one as it is.:lol:
I just think the car would be even greater if it DID have a great interior.
As long as it doesn't add weight or cost.:D

Enhancing the driving experience and whatnot in any way is always nice.;)

My ideal corvette is a C6 grand sport with a two tone caravaggio interior.:nod:

Wow after about the 4th page this thread went waay off track!

This thread is simply bench racing between a 2012 ZL1 Camaro vs 2013 Mustang GT500. Nobody will truly know which is faster, better etc until they both can be tested together.

Waaay too many variables to predict the outcome but just from the advertised specs of both cars. Most true racers know it's real world laws of physics that can't be denied and that is usually less weight and more horsepower/ torque usually wins. Gearing, suspension, traction, aerodymanics and how the power is put down is the only variable that has yet to be determined.

Both cars will be a phenomenal piece of mechinery! I'm a GM enthusiast at heart but I'd have no problem rocking either car! Let FORD vs CHEVY wars continue!!!

Dumb comparison but just throwing it out there, I haven't seen it posted anywhere on here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_UdQYLCNHA

Dumb comparison but just throwing it out there, I haven't seen it posted anywhere on here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_UdQYLCNHA

That my friend was not dumb i think it proves a good point that a 2.5 seconds or more is a big gap(zl1 vs ls mustang) and this test was against a car that weighed about the same and was awd and cost 40k so now look take another look at the camaro vs mustang battle and i think the zl1 shines even more imo but who am i anyways:engarde:

Well, they are both high performance sport coupes with small rear seats and independent suspensions, they are both quite heavy and they do both have forced induction with three entirely different 6 speed transmissions available between them...maybe it's not such an odd pairing/match up afterall LOL. :D
It's no secret that the Nissan can probably eat the ZL1's lunch for it in every performance category, but for nearly $100k it had damn well better do that. :nod: :burn:

That my friend was not dumb i think it proves a good point that a 2.5 seconds or more is a big gap(zl1 vs ls mustang) and this test was against a car that weighed about the same and was awd and cost 40k so now look take another look at the camaro vs mustang battle and i think the zl1 shines even more imo but who am i anyways:engarde:

Oh at the irony in this post....lol

ZL1 beats LS Boss by 2 seconds = ZL1 OWNZ THE WORLD OMFGBBQ!!111!!11

GTR beats ZL1 by 2 seconds = OMFG THIS PROVES HOW AWESOME THE ZL1 IS OMFGBBQ!!!111!!1!

:sack:

That my friend was not dumb i think it proves a good point that a 2.5 seconds or more is a big gap(zl1 vs ls mustang) and this test was against a car that weighed about the same and was awd and cost 40k so now look take another look at the camaro vs mustang battle and i think the zl1 shines even more imo but who am i anyways:engarde:

All of these tests were at Inde at the GM press day, correct? Given that, what you should really be wondering is why they didn't have a 2012 GT500 with the Performance Pack their for a comparison ;)

All of these tests were at Inde at the GM press day, correct? Given that, what you should really be wondering is why they didn't have a 2012 GT500 with the Performance Pack their for a comparison ;)

My honest opinion....

GM didn't want that comparison. Let's assume that the ZL1 still beat the 2012 GT500, but not by a big margin (I have little doubts this would be the case). That's poor publicity for the ZL1 that GM didn't want. Consumers would interpret that as...

"The ZL1 barely beat the current 2012 GT500, it has no chance against the 2013. All that smack talk from Al Op. The letter, the powerpoint presentation, all bullsnot! Fug that, I'm buying the 2013 Shelby."

Let's face it, anyone with a brain knows that the initial letter released from Al Op. the day after the 2013 GT500 specs were released was nothing more than damage control. It was to save as many potential ZL1 pre-order buyers as possible. No more, no less. The fan bois call it something else, however...they are mistaken.

I've seen my fair share of damage control press release in my career. This is exactly what it was.

:nod:

My honest opinion....

GM didn't want that comparison. Let's assume that the ZL1 still beat the 2012 GT500, but not by a big margin (I have little doubts this would be the case). :nod: Had they wanted to "compare" against the GT500, they'd have simply gone to some tracks we've already seen GT500 numbers posted from, like actually going to LS or VIR... It's easier to make people think the car is great when they avoid a heads up comparison.

On the other hand, in the only test I'm aware of where the LS Mustang was compared to the GT500, it was close... I suspect GM decided to use a high end Mustang, but not THE top dog. Of course, I still think the Shelby GT350 is the real king of new Mustangs(but Ford doesn't build it in house).

:nod: Had they wanted to "compare" against the GT500, they'd have simply gone to some tracks we've already seen GT500 numbers posted from, like actually going to LS or VIR... It's easier to make people think the car is great when they avoid a heads up comparison.

On the other hand, in the only test I'm aware of where the LS Mustang was compared to the GT500, it was close... I suspect GM decided to use a high end Mustang, but not THE top dog. Of course, I still think the Shelby GT350 is the real king of new Mustangs(but Ford doesn't build it in house).

The expert racers have informed the population what took place.

The GT500/Laguna Seca comparison took place on a track configuration that was smaller straights and more twisty making the power advantage nil for the GT500.

The ZL1/Laguna Seca comparison took place on a track configuration with longer straights and an advantage for the higher HP car.

It's easy to assume that the 2011-2012 GT500 would get destroyed by the new ZL1 because the GT500 only performed .5 seconds faster than the Laguna Seca on the twisty track. Had the comparison been made on the configuration the ZL1 had, the results would have been much different.

There are "not equal" comparisons going on here to create a smoke screen to boost ZL1 sales. I don't care either way, as I love competition. It breeds improvements, as that benefits the consumer, however....inconsistencies are occurring.

The expert racers have informed the population what took place.

The GT500/Laguna Seca comparison took place on a track configuration that was smaller straights and more twisty making the power advantage nil for the GT500.

The ZL1/Laguna Seca comparison took place on a track configuration with longer straights and an advantage for the higher HP car.

It's easy to assume that the 2011-2012 GT500 would get destroyed by the new ZL1 because the GT500 only performed .5 seconds faster than the Laguna Seca on the twisty track. Had the comparison been made on the configuration the ZL1 had, the results would have been much different.

There are "not equal" comparisons going on here to create a smoke screen to boost ZL1 sales. I don't care either way, as I love competition. It breeds improvements, as that benefits the consumer, however....inconsistencies are occurring.

In case you didn't read it the first few times, the Camaro held more speed in the corners than the Mustang.
the Camaro held more speed in the corners than the Mustang.
the Camaro held more speed in the corners than the Mustang.
the Camaro held more speed in the corners than the Mustang.
the Camaro held more speed in the corners than the Mustang.
Did you get that?
'On the road course, the Camaro was 2.4 seconds a lap quicker and almost 10 mph faster at the end of the back straight. Roughly 4 of those mph were courtesy of higher cornering speed carried out of the previous turn. Even without the big power difference on the straight, the Camaro would have been constantly making ground on the Mustang with mid-corner speed. The Camaro can simply generate more cornering force and corner faster, thanks in part to front tires that are as wide as the Mustang's rears and rear tires that are 20 millimeters wider still. Coupled with a stiffer body and more compliant suspension, the Camaro is a more capable car around the track.
"

I don't get why you mustang fanboys are still getting so butthurt, you all should be used to getting your asses handed to you...
http://i910.photobucket.com/albums/ac303/elfprincessarcher/oprah-you-mad.gif

There you go with that "fanboy" nonsense again. He was just saying that the GT500 would have been close enough not to be very good publicity.

In case you didn't read it the first few times, the Camaro held more speed in the corners than the Mustang.
the Camaro held more speed in the corners than the Mustang.
the Camaro held more speed in the corners than the Mustang.
the Camaro held more speed in the corners than the Mustang.
the Camaro held more speed in the corners than the Mustang.
Did you get that?
'On the road course, the Camaro was 2.4 seconds a lap quicker and almost 10 mph faster at the end of the back straight. Roughly 4 of those mph were courtesy of higher cornering speed carried out of the previous turn. Even without the big power difference on the straight, the Camaro would have been constantly making ground on the Mustang with mid-corner speed. The Camaro can simply generate more cornering force and corner faster, thanks in part to front tires that are as wide as the Mustang's rears and rear tires that are 20 millimeters wider still. Coupled with a stiffer body and more compliant suspension, the Camaro is a more capable car around the track.
"

I don't get why you mustang fanboys are still getting so butthurt, you all should be used to getting your asses handed to you...
http://i910.photobucket.com/albums/ac303/elfprincessarcher/oprah-you-mad.gif

yea. i have had my ass handed to me a LOT on the track. that was in the camaro, when we were getting beaten by the mercury capri. and the amx. and a couple of dodges, and chevys too.

There you go with that "fanboy" nonsense again. He was just saying that the GT500 would have been close enough not to be very good publicity.

Thank you sir, you understood me.

If they would compare the ZL1 directly to the current GT500, I have no doubts that the ZL1 has the advantage, and will take the win. However, that margin will probably not be as dramatic as the GM nut huggers and Al. Op. make it out to be.

I found irony in something else. Al Op. talks about how Ford has been playing catch up. If that were true, why all the propaganda from the Camaro camp? Shouldn't the under dog be the one using propaganda to make their product look better.

Kinda odd....

Oh at the irony in this post....lol

ZL1 beats LS Boss by 2 seconds = ZL1 OWNZ THE WORLD OMFGBBQ!!111!!11

GTR beats ZL1 by 2 seconds = OMFG THIS PROVES HOW AWESOME THE ZL1 IS OMFGBBQ!!!111!!1!

:sack:

I brought this and other point up over at Camaro 5....and was promptly slapped with an infraction.

This after Scott Settlemire had me banned from the ZL1 section over there.....

Thank you sir, you understood me.

If they would compare the ZL1 directly to the current GT500, I have no doubts that the ZL1 has the advantage, and will take the win. However, that margin will probably not be as dramatic as the GM nut huggers and Al. Op. make it out to be.

I found irony in something else. Al Op. talks about how Ford has been playing catch up. If that were true, why all the propaganda from the Camaro camp? Shouldn't the under dog be the one using propaganda to make their product look better.

Kinda odd....

speak softly, and carry a big stick. :D

I brought this and other point up over at Camaro 5....and was promptly slapped with an infraction.

This after Scott Settlemire had me banned from the ZL1 section over there.....

They banned me over there for speaking the truth, so I know what you mean. You are not allowed to speak the truth, if the truth meets the following criteria.

1. Is negative about the ZL1

2. Doesn't match their forum opinion of group think

3. Proves that the ZL1 is LESS of a car than Al Op. and the Camaro5 camp believe it to be.

4. Typing "Government Motors"

speak softly, and carry a big stick. :D

2013 GT500:twak:2012 ZL1


:thumb:

There you go with that "fanboy" nonsense again. He was just saying that the GT500 would have been close enough not to be very good publicity.

Fanboy, nuttswinger, call it whatever you want, its the same. A mustang guy coming over to a GM site to "defend" (mostly talk shit) the Mustang, especially with speculation.

yea. i have had my ass handed to me a LOT on the track. that was in the camaro, when we were getting beaten by the mercury capri. and the amx. and a couple of dodges, and chevys too.

Cool story bro, 40 years ago in a strait line, keep talking.

Thank you sir, you understood me.

If they would compare the ZL1 directly to the current GT500, I have no doubts that the ZL1 has the advantage, and will take the win. However, that margin will probably not be as dramatic as the GM nut huggers and Al. Op. make it out to be.
Honestly I doubt it solely because GM had the Mustang to test against when developing the ZL1. Maybe I completely missed something but when did GM pair these cars up to race? Wasn't it the auto magazines that did it?


I found irony in something else. Al Op. talks about how Ford has been playing catch up. If that were true, why all the propaganda from the Camaro camp? Shouldn't the under dog be the one using propaganda to make their product look better.

Kinda odd....
While I really hate all the shit talk this guy is giving (he should just shut up and let the times do the talking), hes technically right.
The 4th gen dominated the Mustang of its time (yes, even the terminator Cobra, check out road course comparisons)- especially the 1LE cars. Then Ford redesigned the car and ditched the shitty 4 link rear suspension for what the 4th gen fbodies were running for so long. The 4th gens still held their own up until the new 5.0 came out.

I found irony in something else. Al Op. talks about how Ford has been playing catch up. If that were true, why all the propaganda from the Camaro camp? Shouldn't the under dog be the one using propaganda to make their product look better.

Kinda odd....



What I find kind of odd is when that is stated; it doesn't take into account that GM quit making the Camero and that Ford has BEEN making better Mustangs (03-04 Cobra's and the GT500's).

Fanboy, nuttswinger, call it whatever you want, its the same. A mustang guy coming over to a GM site to "defend" (mostly talk shit) the Mustang, especially with speculation.



Cool story bro, 40 years ago in a strait line, keep talking.



that was actually only 8 years ago.

i came here to be able to talk with like minded people in as much as we all like fast cars. i happen to prefer fords. you guys happen to prefer chevys.

i know what i've beaten, and what i've lost to. what i also know, is that my 83 stang stock never lost to a stock camaro of that era. my 89 gt stock never lost to a camaro of that era stock. once modified, neither of them lost to similarily modified camaros. my 012 won't lose to a stock 011 or 012 camaro(unless it's the zl1 of course).

the difference between people like me, and a lot of you younger guys that think that the 90's camaros are all the shit, is that i've been there and done it. i have an open enough mind to accept when there's a better car out there(the vette for example), whereas you guys don't seem to. don't worry though. that comes with age. :)

it doesn't take into account that GM quit making the CameroActually, they never even made a Camero LOL. :D
I do like those new Mastang GT 5.0s though. :lol: ;)

Actually, they never even made a Camero LOL. :D
I do like those new Mastang GT 5.0s though. :lol: ;)

I made a thread about this Camero bs and it's still happening.

I made a thread about this Camero bs and it's still happening.I know LOL, so many people make that same damn mistake and I just don't get how it happens. I'd understand it more if the letters were right next to each other on the keyboard but they're not.
It is spelled exactly how it sounds too LOL. :D ;)
.
.
.
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.
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.

He does that on purpose... :secret2:

He does that on purpose... :secret2:




Some people aren't smart enough to figure that out :jest:

Some people aren't smart enough to figure that out :jest:

Prove it.

^^^ I seriously LoL'ed...thanks :D

He does that on purpose... :secret2:Yeah I'd figured that could be a possibility as well LOL.
It really is still a common misspelling by so many others though. :)

Meh, Ford, Chevy, Dodge... I just love what sorta stuff rolls off the line when the manufacturers start puffin' their chests out. Gives me a warm, fuzzy, nostalgic feeling.

that was actually only 8 years ago.

i came here to be able to talk with like minded people in as much as we all like fast cars. i happen to prefer fords. you guys happen to prefer chevys.

Dude just stop right there. You came here to troll and start shit, thats all your posts are.


i know what i've beaten, and what i've lost to. what i also know, is that my 83 stang stock never lost to a stock camaro of that era. my 89 gt stock never lost to a camaro of that era stock. once modified, neither of them lost to similarily modified camaros.
Cool story bro. Why are you talking about 15-16 second cars from the 80s?


the difference between people like me, and a lot of you younger guys that think that the 90's camaros are all the shit, is that i've been there and done it.

Im pretty sure(hope) no one on here thinks that "90s Camaros" are "the shit". We are owners/fans of them because of the bang for the buck value.

i have an open enough mind to accept when there's a better car out there(the vette for example),

Pretty much all of your posts show otherwise... If a Mustang loses, then some kind of excuses are brought up.

Dude just stop right there. You came here to troll and start shit, thats all your posts are.


Cool story bro. Why are you talking about 15-16 second cars from the 80s?


Im pretty sure(hope) no one on here thinks that "90s Camaros" are "the shit". We are owners/fans of them because of the bang for the buck value.

Pretty much all of your posts show otherwise... If a Mustang loses, then some kind of excuses are brought up.

trust me, if i were trolling, you'd know it....or not. i made the comment about the 90's camaros, and the 80's ones, because it seems that a lot of the younger guys here forget that the 90's camaros are the first ones to really own mustangs on a regular basis.
as for mustang losing excuses? not really. but if that's what you wanna think, good on ya. :engarde:

i made the comment about the 90's camaros, and the 80's ones, because it seems that a lot of the younger guys here forget that the 90's camaros are the first ones to really own mustangs on a regular basis.Are you sure?
The late '60s Camaro big blocks never beat any of the Mustang offerings (and sometimes vice versa as well of course)?
The '67/'68 Z28s were faster than any small block Mustang up until that point (things changed a bit for 1969 (Boss 302, Mach 1 351 etc.) of course).
The 1974 Trans Am SD455 didn't beat the 1974 Mustang (Pinto?) IIs? :lol: ;)
The 1978 Camaro Z28 didn't own the 1978 Mustang?

I love Camaros/Firebirds AND Mustangs but no, the '90s were NOT the first time that this happened. :)

Which is why he specified "on a regular basis." I don't think one or two years is what he was talking about.

Are you sure?
The late '60s Camaro big blocks never beat any of the Mustang offerings (and sometimes vice versa as well of course)?
The '67/'68 Z28s were faster than any small block Mustang up until that point (things changed a bit for 1969 (Boss 302, Mach 1 351 etc.) of course).
The 1974 Trans Am SD455 didn't beat the 1974 Mustang (Pinto?) IIs? :lol: ;)
The 1978 Camaro Z28 didn't own the 1978 Mustang?

I love Camaros/Firebirds AND Mustangs but no, the '90s were NOT the first time that this happened. :)

same here...love em both.
the only way a 60's camaro beat a 60's mustang was to go to a bigger engine. then ford'd put something bigger in the mustang, and be right on top again.
in the 70's example you give, a sd firebird is in no way a camaro. it was still powered by a true torquemonster back then. 70's pinto-stangs were agonizingly slow, as were the camaros.
are you talking the 350 vs a 4 or 6 cylinder? or the 302? or the 305 vs one of them? the 305 that was rated at a whopping 145hp. at the flywheel. but then the 302 only had 139.

oh yea......also note what irun11s said.

Been away for about a week and this thread gave me fits of laughter, thanks! :lol:

Bottom line is that the GT 500 is king because GM took tooooooooooo longgggggggggg to build this car. End of story.