red_diablo

Hey guys well I mad a threD here a few months ago Bout choosing a cam. I finally decided to go with a ms3 cam with ls6 heads and a ls6 intake ls6 oil pump and a ls2 timing chaing. Along with a 3800 stall and 373s. The car already has a intake and Lt headers with a bullet and open cut out...

I have two questiobs

#1. Does a x pipe make a big difference from a y pipe?

#2. How long will my car work if I dont tune it right away?

Thing is I wanna get the suspension done aswell cuz it is saueeking real bad

red_diablo

Sorry about the words... Made the thread on my phone

Zman420

iTrader: (18)

#1) yes. A x pipe offers a scavenging (sucking) effect on the gasses. Wich helps increase exhaust velocity from bank to bank. In turn, making a few more ponys. A y pipe offers little to none scavenging and is used more or less to conserve space.
think of a x pipe as a little bonus if you have the room to make it fit.

#2) depends if you swapped injectors really.
I wouldn't drive the car for verry long at all with that drastic of changes made to the motor.. especially if you have changed injectors..personally I would be hesitant to even drive it at all until I had a good baseline tune setup. Your stft's and o2's will try to compensate for the changes to try to get you back to 14.7 or whatever your commanded afr is set at. But I don't know to what extent they will compensate for. And definatly WOULD NOT floor the car or go putting your foot off in it. the ecu will enter PE mode and once it does, your o2's and fuel trims wont save your motor from your ve and maf table being so lean.

I would atleast get a mail order tune to get the car going or at minimum drive it straight to someone that can tune it. Or put it on a trailer.Just my 2 cents tho. I like to play things safe on drastic changes. Some people may say they drove theirs for 6 months without a tune.. but that's up to you.

red_diablo

Thanks for the info....

00pooterSS

iTrader: (40)

1. Does not matter if you do an X or a Y. They are completely different but EITHER if used PROPERLY will make a ton of power. Zman is a little off on that info. If you want to see a Y pipe used properly look up Pat G's recipe for 500 rear wheel horse power from a 346. It uses a Y pipe. Scavenging has nothing at all to do with X or Y pipe, it has to do with air velocity and maintaining velocity. X or Y depends on if you want a single or dual setup, then you build it properly from there.

2. Depends how you treat it, you go out and romp on it after the cam and heads, it may pop right then and there. It will last if you very lightly throttle it because the you will be pulling in a low amount of air that the MAF and injectors can compensate for, but why chance it. Tow it to a tuner immediately after parts install and don't risk popping the motor.

red_diablo

Cool deal.... 500 horses would be killer... Where can I find what I need... Any links available?

red_diablo

Found it..... forgot to mention. This will be my dd

GMCHammer

iTrader: (4)

Don't be cheap and do it right the first time. Have the car tuned right after the cam install. A MS3 is no joke to daily drive and will require changing out the valve springs more frequently than you would a smaller cam. Not knocking your decision as I have DD a couple of large cams and know the maintenance that goes with them.

00pooterSS

iTrader: (40)

A LOT of money, time and planning go into 500 rwhp from a 346. Your not gonna strap a nice cam and some exhaust on it and go do it. Your gonna need to spend a good 10 or so grand to do it.

And GMCHammer made a great point. Don't just go running head first into a giant cam because of the peak power numbers. I love the idea of running a MS3, I think it's a great cam, but if you are going to drive a lot of miles you are going to have to do a lot of keep up on valve springs etc.

00pooterSS

iTrader: (40)

More about your exhaust, if you have a 3" exhaust with a dump, that will be a good start, don't get too concerned with that just yet. A true dual setup is moderately cheap though and will have an X pipe already in it. That will definately flow enough.

Zman420

iTrader: (18)

The question at hand was simply asking if there was a difference in a x or y pipe. I wasn't saying that a y pipe can't make good power. I personally made 440 with stock 243's cam only through a 9 in. And th400 on bryans dyno with pat g tuning it using a y pipe. However, Iv seen countless times a true duel x pipe setup making 10-15 more horses then a single y pipe setup. But back to the question. Yes there is a difference.

00pooterSS

iTrader: (40)

Yes but you also said a Y pipe doesn't keep scavenging up where a x pipe does which is untrue.

(then for the part in bold)
Yeah but how well was the Y pipe setup built? Was it a smooth transitioned dual 3" to a single 4"? or was it a shitty Y pipe like almost every F body on the planet?

A well setup Y pipe will make just as much power as an X pipe.

Let me flip that and ask a question. Do you think a badass Y pipe setup would make more power than a tiny horribly set up X pipe? The answer is yes. The only reason you saw the duals make more than the Y is because the Y was inadequate.

Basically you had the right idea, but your wording needs clarification if someone is going to base their build off of your feedback

Zman420

iTrader: (18)

Agreed. Nascar uses y pipes on their cars.. verry expensive y pipes but same principle as stated above. I actually prefer y pipe setups because the ease of removing and you have more room to work around. But I have also seen personally power gains from switching out a good ypipe w/flowmaster merge to a magnaflow x pipe true dual setup. Wether that's just what the car liked or not Idk. Every setup is different therefore so are the results. For max power, weight and ease of working around, just run bullets off the headers and call it a day. Just hide from your neighbors when they knock on the door. Problem solved.

GMCHammer

iTrader: (4)

I would have to say some of the HP difference was in the flowmaster vs the magnaflow muffler. Flowmaster has been know to dyno 8 - 10 HP lower then Magnaflow.

TxAgWS6

iTrader: (1)

I don't think ZMan meant flowmaster muffler, just the merge pipe. Flowmaster mufflers suck, however they make the best flowing y pipe merge available.

red_diablo

Thats A Lot of info guys... I really appreciate it..... Well I drive my car at least 50 miles aday all highway... I live in north Laredo and work in the south almkst at the city limit. So im kinda rethinking the ms3 cam now with the talk about maintenance Nd what not..... What cam can I go with that can make over 400 horses and still be a reliable dd

red_diablo

That would be sick tho bullets right out of ghe header lol

minytrker

iTrader: (13)

The valves spring thing gets blown out of proportion online. If you buy good springs you'll be good for years.

GMCHammer

iTrader: (4)

Having two sets of "good" springs break on me at around 15k of use each, my logic is this........

It's cheaper to replace valve springs then a motor.

For a garage kept car that comes out to play sometimes.... donkey dick cam all day long. For a DD is it really worth the hassle for a few more HP?

bigfatls6

iTrader: (34)

you definetly dont want to try to daily drive a heads and cam stalled auto car on a stock tune. Plan on getting it tuned after installing all of that. Its going to drive like total **** with out a tune. You will be lucky just to get it home much less drive it every day until you get it tuned. Not to mention it will probably be lean as hell and not idle at all.