Military Hotrod Club - MEPS messed up my Contract... Advice

Long story short, I went through MEPS on 08/18/11 and was told I passed all of the exams and qualified for every job (Air Force). On 11/14/11 I booked a job as a loadmaster scheduled to leave on 02/28/12. Yesterday I get a text message from my recruiter saying that whoever my liason at MEPS was, didn't realize that my hearing score didn't qualify for my job as a loadmaster. It took them almost 6 months to realize this and now that I am within 3 weeks of leaving I am running of the risk of not shipping out but also losing my job. I wouldn't be nearly as aggrivated if they had just realized this within the first few months, but I have already turned in all paperwork, signed a contract, and I am ready to go. All of the jobs that I was interested in are now unavailable to me because of the hearing test. MEPS also told my recruiter that they refused to retest me unless I went to a civillian doctor first and passed their test. I have 6 days to take and pass that test, go back to MEPS, and pass that test or my job will be given away. I honestly tried very hard the first time on the test, so I highly doubt I will do any better this time around.

My question is, I am 20 years old and have 2.5 years of college done. I wanted to enlist so I could get my loans repaid. But with all of this happening and no possible postponing my leaving until may/june, would it be smarter to finish my degree before leaving? I would graduate in May 2013. Also, all of the jobs that I listed at MEPS were jobs that I am now unqualified for, so I would have to find 9 new jobs that I am interested in. I have been asked about going in Open General, but I don't think I want to do that.

Sorry for the long story, what would y'all do if you were in my shoes?

like I said in one of your other threads, finish school first and become an officer - life will be much, MUCH easier for you

sincerely,
Enlisted Marine that enlisted with a college degree and gets bossed around by Officers that are much younger and far less educated

That's what I'm thinking now also. I still plan on joining regardless, but it may be better to finish school first.

like I said in one of your other threads, finish school first and become an officer - life will be much, MUCH easier for you

sincerely,
Enlisted Marine that enlisted with a college degree and gets bossed around by Officers that are much younger and far less educated


haha!!...do ECP or MCP

finish school

-10yrs and counting enlisted usaf guy.

p.s.. everything has a waiver..... EVERYTHING. ;) .. all you have to do is fight. took me 10 years to learn not to put my career in the hands of another and the famous quote from our Friday morning ultimate Frisbee games with mixed O's and E's.. " You have to want it!"

Really? He told me there was no waiver for hearing and sight when it came to certain jobs.

haha!!...do ECP or MCP

This may be a dumb question, but what is ECP and MCP?

I believe they are commissioning programs.?

Update: I took the civilian hearing test earlier today and I passed it with H1 hearing. But just barely. I have the maximum allowed hearing loss in my left ear. Hopefully I'll be able to pass at MEPS too.

yes, commissioning programs...all of which Im too old for

Update: I took the civilian hearing test earlier today and I passed it with H1 hearing. But just barely. I have the maximum allowed hearing loss in my left ear. Hopefully I'll be able to pass at MEPS too.

Start wearing ear plugs prior to your hearing test. Wear them all the way up to the test if you can get away with it and avoid loud noise as much as possible. Don't even listen to the radio on the way in. When they do the test try not to move or get distracted and if you start getting the heartbeat in the headset slightly adjust yourself to get it to stop.

finish school

-10yrs and counting enlisted usaf guy.

p.s.. everything has a waiver..... EVERYTHING. ;) .. all you have to do is fight. took me 10 years to learn not to put my career in the hands of another and the famous quote from our Friday morning ultimate Frisbee games with mixed O's and E's.. " You have to want it!"


haha!!!! NO there is not a waiver for everything...if there were I would be able to enlist alot more applicants in the Marine Corps. There are things that the Bureau of Medicine or the particular branch WILL NOT waive.

:D my bad, most things have a waiver :P

Welcome to enlisted life... it sucks. They will fuck you over so fast it'll make your head spin. I'm so glad I got out.

like I said in one of your other threads, finish school first and become an officer - life will be much, MUCH easier for you

sincerely,
Enlisted Marine that enlisted with a college degree and gets bossed around by Officers that are much younger and far less educated

That is a great plan, but just having a degree just mean you will get accepted to a commissioning program. It is easier for someone who is currently enlisted to apply and get accepted to a commissioning program than it is for a civilian to walk in to a recruiter and get accepted.


finish school

-10yrs and counting enlisted usaf guy.

p.s.. everything has a waiver..... EVERYTHING. ;) .. all you have to do is fight. took me 10 years to learn not to put my career in the hands of another and the famous quote from our Friday morning ultimate Frisbee games with mixed O's and E's.. " You have to want it!"

Lots of things have waivers, especially education requirements and legal issues. However, when it comes to sight/hearing requirements, those are in place for safety reasons. I had a kid go to bootcamp and then it was realized his job required color vision. He had to pick another job. It sucks, but in the end, his dad came back to our office and told us that they knew he was color blind, and knew the job required color vision but were hoping he could slide by.

haha!!!! NO there is not a waiver for everything...if there were I would be able to enlist alot more applicants in the Marine Corps. There are things that the Bureau of Medicine or the particular branch WILL NOT waive.

Yep. I even had an applicant one time who was DQ'd by the Navy for having lazy eye surgery as a kid (over 15 years ago) and then somehow he was able to get a waiver for the USMC.



-OP: You need to figure out if being in the military is something you want to do. If you go to school and then try and join, there are no guarantees that you will be able to get back in. With all the budget cuts, all of the services are cutting back over the next 10 years, so you could finish school and then come back and try to join and be turned down.

I am not saying take any job they give you, that is your choice. However, think about the pros and cons of your choices.

This is what I see:

You want to join to get your loans repaid, so that tells me that it might not be the easiest for you to pay them off on your own. This is with just 2.5 years of school, not the full 4 years you will have in the end. So...

If you join now, you can get the 2.5 years repaid, and use the military to pay for the last 1.5. Thus having no college debt.

If you wait to join, and finish school, you run the risk of incurring more debt, and running the risk of not being able to join when you finish school.

Or, with the cuts the military is facing, the loan repayment program *could* always see cuts (since it pays out millions each year). So, you could finish school, come back to join in 2013, be able to get back in, but still have to repay your college debt.

That is just my .02 as a recruiter for 3 years

My biggest worry would be not getting back in if I decided to wait until after graduation. Paying my loans off isn't that big of a deal, I just prefer to be debt free when possible, so the AF paying off my loans seemed pretty good. On that note I am still not sure whether or not to take the loan repayment because I would have to give up my GI bill during my first enlistment. With my degree being in Criminal Justice, the chances of me commissioning with that degree coming from a civilian is slim to none anyway, since it is not a technical degree, or a degree that is in need. I am currently waiting on MEPS to decide whether or not I can come back and test. I was also told that my job will only be held until Tuesday, which doesn't leave me much time at all.

Losing the GI Bill unless you reenlist is a big concern for some people, but most of the people that I enlisted that took the LRP were planning on staying in for a while anyway, so it wasn't that big of a deal to them.

You are right about your degree and having trouble getting commissioned with it. The Army would probably give you a commission, but I know the Navy won't and the AF probably won't either. However, once you are enlisted, they look at the applications differently, so you might be able to get a commission that way with your CJ degree.

Generally, when I had an applicant who failed part of the MEPS physical, once they were tested at a civilian, we sent the test results to MEPS and within 48-72hrs (standard MEPS processing time), we would find out if MEPS was going to do a retest, or just use the civilian results (which usually happened). I only had one time when MEPS wouldn't use the civilian results, or allow a retest and that was for a HIV test.

It would be great if meps would just use my civilian scores. At this point I just want to leave on my current leave date. I'll worry more about commissioning later down the road. I planning staying in for a while (hopefully 20) but my wife is in pharmacy school and her practicing is dependent on where I am stationed.

I would take the G.I. bill if i were you. Unless your loans are sky high (25K plus at a minimum) you are giving up alot by not taking the GI bill. If this is going to be your first enlistment make sure you get what you want out of it the first time. Your first enlistment might be your only enlistment so make sure you get the benefits you want. make sure to take advantage of the tuition assistance program and pell grants while your in since they can cover alot of your educational needs. I am currently finishing up my degree in Management Human Relations and am only gonna owe about 7k and i never even touched my GI Bill. Im saving my GI bill for law school and with the GI bill combined with the hazel-wood act i should be able to get my law degree from a state school in Texas for almost nothing. Just research all your options before you commit to anything.

So what happened? Def do not go open general for a job...i made sure i had my job locked in before BMT and my recruiter was a load master i should have done that job. lol
Anyway I was in your situation when I joined as well, but I did finish my degree and graduated then enlisted. Yes I know why didn't I go OTS, same reason not a competitive degree and one the AF wasn't looking for and yes much harder to go OTS as a civilian. If I had a "do over" I would have went to a college that offered AFROTC and commissoned that way, it's the best way IMO. I got my college loan's paid off but the AF didn't pay all of it off but what I got was very helpful and I'm glad for the boost to help pay them off. It's a great feeling to get those gone. It is possible to work your way through college so that you do not have any debt my friend did it but his grades did suffer a little but he graduated and is now a cop.

Just find something that interests you and you will be fine. MEPS is like that they are crappy if you ask me, my experience was a bunch of hateful people that hated their life and jobs. I had to go see a civilian doc as well for my feet but everything was okay. Let us know what happens.

Update: I haven't been in here in forever. I DEP discharged and decided to finish my degree for now. MEPS tried to tell me my only option was to go in open general which I did not want to do. I've Re enrolled in school and have about a year left to finish my degree. My degree is finance, so I doubt I'll be able to commission in the AF, but who knows. The only downside about finishing my degree is that I am too at along in school to do ROTC.

smart choice, if your looking for a commission you might look into other branches besides air force. If you only qualified open general finishing your degree will not change that. IMO check out other branches or go for OTS/OCS. As long as you have no legal issues, and you don't default on anything credit wise and can get a clearance you should be good to go. their are other requirements as well. I take it you scored decently well on the ASVAB?

I qualified for a lot of jobs, even those that require H1 hearing. MEPS basically refused to accept my civilian scores and would not let me retest. They said the only way I could leave was with an open contract. I know the AF won't give me a commission with a business degree, but maybe another branch will. As far as ASVAB goes, I made a 90.

I qualified for a lot of jobs, even those that require H1 hearing. MEPS basically refused to accept my civilian scores and would not let me retest. They said the only way I could leave was with an open contract. I know the AF won't give me a commission with a business degree, but maybe another branch will. As far as ASVAB goes, I made a 90.
if your QT score was a 90 you definitely qualify for a lot of jobs, unfortunately MEPCOM is used for all the branches so if they will not accept the civilian hearing test then your PULHES profile stays the same. So now it's up to you to figure out which branch has the options your looking for given that set of circumstances. The Army and Navy are most likely your best bet, maybe even the Marines for commissioning. For enlisted look to the Army or Navy especially if your looking for a guaranteed MOS based on your personal qualifications. Former recruiter.

I figured that. If I decide to try again, it'll most likely be army or navy. I'm kind of figuring the Army would be the best for commissioning.

I don't understand, why would you want to be a loadmaster and have a finance/business degree? You can still apply for OTS with a business type degree... I don't know who is telling you not to, your enlisted recruiter? Don't listen to him. Go talk to an officer recruiter, find out what you need to make the best OTS package you can and do it.

No degree yet. I have about a year and a half left before I graduate.

Seriously, don't make the mistake I did of enlisting with a degree. There are tons of benefits to being an officer besides making more money. I hate it when I get looked down at by superiors, especially junior officers, because they assume I'm just a young high school graduate. Talk to an officer recruiter. Find out what they're looking for in a package to apply for OTS. Finish school, lead volunteer projects and apply. It'll be worth it.

Seriously, don't make the mistake I did of enlisting with a degree. There are tons of benefits to being an officer besides making more money. I hate it when I get looked down at by superiors, especially junior officers, because they assume I'm just a young high school graduate. Talk to an officer recruiter. Find out what they're looking for in a package to apply for OTS. Finish school, lead volunteer projects and apply. It'll be worth it.

Please tell me, what benefits do Officer have that you lack?

FWIW, the USAF no longer has seperate recruiters for Officer and Enlisted.



If you have been in for any length of time, you will see BOTH officers and enlisted who look down on their subordinates. You will see it at all ranks. If you ask me, its people with your mentality who end up doing so. They feel since they were treated poorly, they can treat others poorly. You have the wrong attitude. The Officer core is not about a degree as you know many enlisted people have them as well. Also ask around, many enlisted personnel with degrees HAVE applied for OTS and were NOT selected. Being an officer is a leadership/supervison role not a "degree" role that is an automatic qualifier. The poor officers usually don't last long.

If you ask me they both have their pros and cons. From experience, being enlisted is alot more rewarding and satisfying than being an officer.

1. Officers do not have the comraderie or friends that enlisted do
2. Officer do not collect "clothing allowance"
3. Recieve less BAS
4. Assignment preferences are more dictated by USAF needs rather than personal.
5. Officer typically work more hours
6. Take the responsibility for your subordinates actions with no fault of your own.


Take another look at it.

Being an Officer you do make more money, but from being on both sides of the fence, thats about the only benefit worth mentioning. Its a huge responsibilty.

What is your degree going to be in?

Because depending on your major, the AF will not let you in as an O. I have a few friends that came in with full 4 year degrees, but are Es right now. Because the AF would not accpect there major. And even though they have tried to go O now that the have been an E for years, big AF say no. Its pretty difficult right now to cross from E to O.

If you are in a science field and will be getting a BS, you will stand a WAY better chance of getting in as an O. But also remember, the AF is going through major force shaping of the next several years, and the first people they start to cut are the Lt. I have seen several people get denied reenlistment. For the enlisted side, normally it depends on your job for that, or if you have fucked up and have a paper trail in your PIF. For the Os, they just had you a piece of paper and just tell you bye bye. Since I have been in, coming up on 8 years, I have seen the Officer force shaping happen 3 times. It is easier to justifiy kick out and O1 or O2. They will basically do the same job as an Juniour NCO, but they make almost double the pay. So, when the look to cut the fat they cut them.

What is your degree going to be in?

Because depending on your major, the AF will not let you in as an O. I have a few friends that came in with full 4 year degrees, but are Es right now. Because the AF would not accpect there major. And even though they have tried to go O now that the have been an E for years, big AF say no. Its pretty difficult right now to cross from E to O.

If you are in a science field and will be getting a BS, you will stand a WAY better chance of getting in as an O. But also remember, the AF is going through major force shaping of the next several years, and the first people they start to cut are the Lt. I have seen several people get denied reenlistment. For the enlisted side, normally it depends on your job for that, or if you have fucked up and have a paper trail in your PIF. For the Os, they just had you a piece of paper and just tell you bye bye. Since I have been in, coming up on 8 years, I have seen the Officer force shaping happen 3 times. It is easier to justifiy kick out and O1 or O2. They will basically do the same job as an Juniour NCO, but they make almost double the pay. So, when the look to cut the fat they cut them.

Ahh, that is so far from the truth.

1. The AF doesn’t care what your degree is in. For a rated or non rated job it must be accredited that’s it. For jobs such as engineering, doctor, JAG (None-line) etc obviously you must have the applicable degree.
2. The AF has not force shaped any Lts out that I know of in the 13 years I have be around. They board heavy commissioning year groups. That falls into the Capt arena which was the case the last few years. Again they select very few to let go as many volunteer to leave. The guys that get the boot are not super stars. You can guarantee they have a derogatory mark on their record (Poor performance, PT failures, and Article 15s ).Yes it's true, young officers get DUIs, Sleep with others spouses, don't pay their bills, dis-obey superiors (Just like young airmen). They get paper work too...Despite most enlisted do not believe so.
3. Lt-Capt’s perform SNCO roles, not junior NCO FYSA.

Don't let your buddies fool you. Yes going to O from E is competitive. The AF can be picky and they are. If your enlisted background is anything but phenomenal your chances are low. Like I mentioned before being an Officer is a higher standard. If you have markdowns on your EPRs, substandard PT scores, an average GPA expect to keep your stripes.

Ahh, that is so far from the truth.

1. The AF doesn’t care what your degree is in. For a rated or non rated job it must be accredited that’s it. For jobs such as engineering, doctor, JAG (None-line) etc obviously you must have the applicable degree.
2. The AF has not force shaped any Lts out that I know of in the 13 years I have be around. They board heavy commissioning year groups. That falls into the Capt arena which was the case the last few years. Again they select very few to let go as many volunteer to leave. The guys that get the boot are not super stars. You can guarantee they have a derogatory mark on their record (Poor performance, PT failures, and Article 15s ).Yes it's true, young officers get DUIs, Sleep with others spouses, don't pay their bills, dis-obey superiors (Just like young airmen). They get paper work too...Despite most enlisted do not believe so.
3. Lt-Capt’s perform SNCO roles, not junior NCO FYSA.

Don't let your buddies fool you. Yes going to O from E is competitive. The AF can be picky and they are. If your enlisted background is anything but phenomenal your chances are low. Like I mentioned before being an Officer is a higher standard. If you have markdowns on your EPRs, substandard PT scores, an average GPA expect to keep your stripes.

1. Yes it does matter if you are coming in off the streets. If you went AFA or ROTC, then no it does not matter. But just Joe Average with a English degree is not going to come in and do my job or be a Pilot. It is possible to be accepted into OTS with a non science degree, but it is EXTREMELY unlikely.

2. The AF was force shape LTs whan I came in. Hence why I saw 9 2nd LTs get sperated at 1 year in. They did it again in 2007, and again, I saw and heard of dozens of 1st and 2nd LTs getting sperated. And they (the AF) are going through a force shaping again. For us Es, that why they have the DOS roll back, reduction of the HYT, and more admin discharges. For the Os, accoring to my Flight CC and Assistant Flight CC, they are looking at sperating out non flyer Os.

3. I neve said Capt...They do preform at the level of a SNCO. But I have never once seen a 2nd Lt have the same responibilities as an SNCO. When you get down and compare O to E, my 2nd Lts are doing the same thing as a NCO. And in the case of my career field, they are doing what most A1Cs are doing. Apart from the Lt can rate on people, that is the only difference. Once the Butterbar becomes Silver, then the increase the responibility. The Lt here at in my flight is the WWO/Asst Flight CC, which his duties are identical to each of the Section NCOICs, but TSgt.

E to O is competive, and there is only one way for my AFSC to do it. Have a Science degree in Earth, Atmosphere, Space, etc. Science. If you do not have that, then you will not become an O in this careeer field. And just like any other, the better your degree is the more likely you will be accpected. Assuming all other items are close. BS in Biology with a 4.0 looks better the a BA in English with a 4.0 to the board. And if you don't believe that, then you are dense.

What is your job? I find it very hard to believe an LT in your section is performing at the A1C/Junior NCO level.

I Can tell you from experience, someone with a English degree sure can become a pilot because there are. I have even seen history majors in the Pilot world.

I can tell you with certainty and I suggest you do some research on it. Your degree type does not make you ineligible. Only certain AFS require specific degrees (Mainly Non-line Officers).

Requirements for Civy and Enlisted are the same for OTS:

http://www.au.af.mil/au/holmcenter/OTS/BOT/botapply.asp

Looks like your comparing your specific AFSC with the entire AF.

Please tell me, what benefits do Officer have that you lack?

FWIW, the USAF no longer has seperate recruiters for Officer and Enlisted.



If you have been in for any length of time, you will see BOTH officers and enlisted who look down on their subordinates. You will see it at all ranks. If you ask me, its people with your mentality who end up doing so. They feel since they were treated poorly, they can treat others poorly. You have the wrong attitude. The Officer core is not about a degree as you know many enlisted people have them as well. Also ask around, many enlisted personnel with degrees HAVE applied for OTS and were NOT selected. Being an officer is a leadership/supervison role not a "degree" role that is an automatic qualifier. The poor officers usually don't last long.

If you ask me they both have their pros and cons. From experience, being enlisted is alot more rewarding and satisfying than being an officer.

1. Officers do not have the comraderie or friends that enlisted do
2. Officer do not collect "clothing allowance"
3. Recieve less BAS
4. Assignment preferences are more dictated by USAF needs rather than personal.
5. Officer typically work more hours
6. Take the responsibility for your subordinates actions with no fault of your own.


Take another look at it.

Being an Officer you do make more money, but from being on both sides of the fence, thats about the only benefit worth mentioning. Its a huge responsibilty.


I agree with most of this except #5.. No way in hell officers work more than maintenance does.. They usually get a nice 7:30-3:30 schedule with an hour and a half for PT, a hour for lunch, and a lot of free time to update their facebook..

Maintenance gets to show up and work all day on the line. Sometimes you're allowed to go get food otherwise if you didn't bring it tough luck. Since you don't have time to do the mandated PT during the day, you get to have that hour and a half tacked on to your duty day to accomplish it. Other days you get to spend an extra three hours looking for a tool that someone doesn't even remember using.

Now if you're comparing an officer job to a job like personnel I would agree.

lol...Probably AMC. I assure you a Maintenance Officer works at least 12hrs a day on average. I will not disagree, there are some people out there like that. They usually get force shaped ;)

Go army! But seriously both have their ups aand downs. You go officer and yeah you'll make a hell of alot more money to sit behind a desk or at a computer as opposed to being out in the field training most of the time but no clothing allowance and idk if youve chhecked the price for class A uniforms lately but theyy're f***ing outrageous. Benifits are the same though. If you want to be an officer at heart though my advice iss go in as enlisted and make it to at least an e-5 or an e-6 and then go to ocs. That way youll have more experience in what you should expect of your enlisted soldiers as an officer and you'll have earned the respect of the soldiers you'll be leading as oposed to just going straight into ocs becoming an officer and trying to lead soldiers. Yeah you have the rank but i can tell you from first hand the respect level is nigght and day. Food for thought man.

lol...probably amc. I assure you a maintenance officer works at least 12hrs a day on average. I will not disagree, there are some people out there like that. They usually get force shaped ;)

acc/afisra.