Automotive News, Media & Press - ZL1 in big trouble? Q&A with SVT Chief Engineer today...




nanokpsi
02-09-2012, 08:46 PM
According to the Chief SVT engineer, 2013 GT500 is faster than the Ford GT around the road course, and performance from 0-150mph is very similar.

Here are the coments from Jamal Hameedi from an SVT Q&A that was held today..
Comment From Dylon
When will we see pricing on the new GT500? Quarter Mile times? 0-60 proof?

11:03 Jamal Hameedi: We'll be publishing performance stats in the next few months, trust me, you'll be happy.

Comment From Kevin
Has the MSRP been determined for the '13 GT500?

Ford: MSRP will be revealed soon. We are all smiling over here Kevin!


Comment From Kevin
I'm am interested on how you guys are taking the Chevy mud slinging. Looks as if the GT500 better do its job in a straight line and on a course. How is it performing at nurburg testing? Satisfied with results compared to what the ZL1 has offered to release?

11:06

Jamal Hameedi: We can't wait to get the car in the hands of journalists!
11:06

Jamal Hameedi: and customers as well!

Comment From GARY WOOD
Hello, Is the TORSEN Diff. tough enough for drag racing?

Jamal Hameedi: Yes, we've had the Torsen diff at the drag strip and we've never broken one.


Comment From Sean
With the new Focus-ST and the Boss both being non-SVT vehicles, what is the status or future of the SVT program?
11:07

Jamal Hameedi: Hi Sean, there are SVT engineers working on the ST program. We are all one global performance group now.
11:07
Comment From Guest
As a 2012 SVT Raptor Owner, I was wondering, will ford be hosting any Raptor weekends for owners to come and play with out trucks with a SVT engineer? Also, I love my truck!
11:08

Jamal Hameedi: Look for future Raptor Round-Up's

11:08
Comment From Shant Meg.
I am debating a Shelby with the performance Pack. Will the ride be stiffer than a Shelby without the Performance Pack?
11:09
Jamal Hameedi: Hi Shant, the SVT-engineered Bilstein suspension on comfort mode will offer a nice ride!

Comment From Frank
Congrats on the first 20 Years of SVT, what does the future of SVT look like with the Ford Global business focus?
Jamal Hameedi: Hi Frank, the future is really exciting. When we leverage our global performance engineering capability it means more performance cars at the end of the day for our enthusiasts.

Ford: We just had a question come in from one of our Google+ fans: I'm a big fan of the Ford GT. Between the Shelby GT500 and the Ford GT which one is the superior performer?
Jamal Hameedi: To our friend on Google+. The GT500 and the Ford GT are pretty different vehicles—but we bench marked the GT quite a bit. The GT500 and GT are roughly similar in performance up to 150 MPH and the GT500 is faster on a road course.

Comment From Shant Meg.
Hi Guys, How crucial will the new Track Pack on the Shelby be if I will track the Shelby only a few times in it's lifetime?
11:28 Jamal Hameedi: Hi Shant, if you're an accomplished driver and you track your GT500 you'll definitely want the track pack.
Comment From George B ;)
Will there be a "Track Key" with the 2013GT500 ? Will there be any restrictions or speed limitations on the car whatsoever?
11:26 Jamal Hameedi: Hey George, the GT500 Coupe is not speed-limited.

That is pretty cool to hear :) This info really made them take out the ban hammer over at Camaro 5.


jmurray87
02-09-2012, 08:53 PM
It's fairly obvious at this point and from other recent articles that SVT has done some serious work to the cars suspension. Once they saw the magnetic ride control on the ZL1 they knew they needed something the same or better which I know they did...why wouldnt they? So with that and the extra HP and less weight they car will more then likely outperform the ZL1 on the road course and strip. As a GM fan I am not afraid to admit that because I think both Camaro and Mustang have fantastic models offered to everyone. I am VERY curious to see if GM will respond and up the ZL1 power or do what everyone wants and put the car on a diet (unlikely) for 2013/14 but doubtful.

GM seems to be standing by what they claim with the ZL1 so...interesting to see how this turns out.

Camaro5.com = bunch of stuck up idiots who think the Camaro is gods gift of a car and everything else is unworthy. I hate reading that site talk about fanboys.

Urban Legend
02-09-2012, 09:04 PM
Ford I love right now. Ford gets it.


nanokpsi
02-09-2012, 09:14 PM
Ford I love right now. Ford gets it.

I respect how he didn't even mention the ZL1, even when asked directly about it. I think that shows they are confident in letting their car do the talking, as oppsed to AL Op looking like he was on the defensive.

bah321
02-10-2012, 02:07 PM
I am 75% sure I want the 2013 to be my next car when I sell my Z06. The modded potential for this car is the luring factor for me.

chasgiv3
02-10-2012, 02:55 PM
I wish I could get past the fact that the GT500 looks like shit to me. GTR looks good maybe a modified Grand Sport. Bah....can't make up my mind.

bah321
02-10-2012, 03:57 PM
Ugh, don't get a GTR, that's cheating lol.

The GT500 looks wise def needs the stripe delete and bigger rear tires for me, maybe lowered

TriShield
02-10-2012, 05:29 PM
Camaro5.com = bunch of stuck up idiots who think the Camaro is gods gift of a car and everything else is unworthy. I hate reading that site talk about fanboys.

That's 99% of dedicated vehicle forums out there.

BOBS99SS
02-10-2012, 06:14 PM
I am 75% sure I want the 2013 to be my next car when I sell my Z06. The modded potential for this car is the luring factor for me.
__________________
i agree i mean we thought a few lil mods on a 03 cobra made it a monster back in the day, this thing is going to be unreal

DrkPhx
02-10-2012, 08:00 PM
As good as a job as Ford has done with the live axle setup on the newer Mustangs, I don't see it doing as good as the IRS/Magnetic Ride Suspension on the ZL1 from all out racing to general street driving. And please put some fatter tires on the rear of the GT500.

TransAmWS.6
02-10-2012, 08:08 PM
Yeah, I'm sad to say but I think the ZL1 is going to get blown out by this car, I just really now want to know how much it will cost. They seem like they're both going to be epic cars but the performance/dollar ratio is going to be the deciding factor for me.

Sax1031
02-10-2012, 08:11 PM
Yeah, I'm sad to say but I think the ZL1 is going to get blown out by this car, I just really now want to know how much it will cost. They seem like they're both going to be epic cars but the performance/dollar ratio is going to be the deciding factor for me.

I wouldn't expect Ford to price the GT500 that far off from the ZL1.

CranMaro99
02-10-2012, 08:23 PM
I still never understood why Ford never created a mass produced sports car (like the Corvette).

I guess this lets them put all their efforts into their iconic pony car.

88blackgt
02-10-2012, 08:41 PM
I still never understood why Ford never created a mass produced sports car (like the Corvette).

I guess this lets them put all their efforts into their iconic pony car.

They did and almost got the Vette axed. Vette stepped up big time after that and the Tbird was done

'00_Z
02-10-2012, 09:20 PM
GM should up the ante on the ZR1 by bumping it up to 700+ hp and drop it's current set up in the ZL1 and re-designate it the Z28.

Sax1031
02-10-2012, 10:03 PM
GM should up the ante on the ZR1 by bumping it up to 700+ hp and drop it's current set up in the ZL1 and re-designate it the Z28.

what is going to be interesting is seeing the specs for the new Viper.

CranMaro99
02-10-2012, 10:58 PM
They did and almost got the Vette axed. Vette stepped up big time after that and the Tbird was done

I kind of meant currently and/or in recent history. The more recent Tbirds were (relatively) a joke.

88blackgt
02-10-2012, 11:05 PM
I kind of meant currently and/or in recent history. The more recent Tbirds were (relatively) a joke.

For sure. It is a shame.

firebird99
02-11-2012, 07:53 PM
I guess you guys forgot about the GT huh? Fords high end supercar it was great but it didnt last to long.And once you have a better model that car can never be top dawg like the ''fbody vs vette'' battle that chevy has to deal with just think about what would happen if we didnt have to worry about out doing the vette and they went all out on a couple different models of the camaro it would be like a mustang with a bowtie.......:nod:

Urban Legend
02-11-2012, 09:01 PM
I guess you guys forgot about the GT huh? Fords high end supercar it was great but it didnt last to long.And once you have a better model that car can never be top dawg like the ''fbody vs vette'' battle that chevy has to deal with just think about what would happen if we didnt have to worry about out doing the vette and they went all out on a couple different models of the camaro it would be like a mustang with a bowtie.......:nod:

I guess you forgot he said, "mass produced."

Urban Legend
02-11-2012, 09:04 PM
what is going to be interesting is seeing the specs for the new Viper.

Not really. That's a two seater and will be about 500 pounds lighter aimed at the vette along with a 6 digits tag.

99FormulaM6r
02-11-2012, 10:40 PM
Is it just me or did this article basically say nothing?

The GT500 looks like a fantastic car, but the Q&A didn't reveal anything we didn't know/figure already. :zzz:

nanokpsi
02-13-2012, 11:25 AM
Is it just me or did this article basically say nothing?

The GT500 looks like a fantastic car, but the Q&A didn't reveal anything we didn't know/figure already. :zzz:

I doubt many people thought it would be quicker than a Ford GT around a road course.

SSickLS1SS
02-13-2012, 11:44 AM
what i dont get is how fast and how much power are they going to push out of these cars? when is the limit? i remember when having 400hp was godlike...now were competing in the 650hp range...STOCK. holy crap.

Wnts2Go10O
02-13-2012, 01:03 PM
what i dont get is how fast and how much power are they going to push out of these cars? when is the limit? i remember when having 400hp was godlike...now were competing in the 650hp range...STOCK. holy crap.

there are stock production cars in the world with over 1200 hp

but yea, its strange to see lowly "muscle" cars with so much these days. whats next? a base V8 camaro or mustang with 475-500 hp?

Sax1031
02-13-2012, 03:44 PM
I doubt many people thought it would be quicker than a Ford GT around a road course.

It already is, at least on some courses.

Virginia International Raceway

Ford GT - 3:00.07

2011 GT500 - 2:58.00

I mean I understand different drivers/different days, but it is already approaching or past the GT on the road course.

Sax1031
02-13-2012, 03:44 PM
GM should up the ante on the ZR1 by bumping it up to 700+ hp and drop it's current set up in the ZL1 and re-designate it the Z28.

so change the name so it can't be beat?

RaggedRides
02-13-2012, 06:02 PM
The Camaros suspension technology may be it's saving grace until power is upped, but that's no garauntee. Look at how the Mustang has been beating up on the M3 Bimmers since the 5.0 was introduced. Granted the Camaro is working with a more advanced set up, but the stick axle Mustang has been going toe to toe or beating the superior suspended, similarly powerful BMW.

Now we're talking a car with a big power and weight advantage taking on a car whose only advantage is it's suspension.

Another thing to consider come time to modify.. Ever see the upper pulley on the new GT500 mill? Not much room to go smaller. The ZL1, however, is pushing less boost and has a much bigger pulley. Granted once the mods start anything goes, but this would be a simple change for the next model year.

LS1LT1
02-14-2012, 03:58 AM
It already is, at least on some courses.

Virginia International Raceway

Ford GT - 3:00.07

2011 GT500 - 2:58.00

I mean I understand different drivers/different days, but it is already approaching or past the GT on the road course.Wow.






Another thing to consider come time to modify.. Ever see the upper pulley on the new GT500 mill? Not much room to go smaller. The ZL1, however, is pushing less boost and has a much bigger pulley. Granted once the mods start anything goes, but this would be a simple change for the next model year.True. I'm more concerned right now with how the stock ZL1s will run in private (skilled) hands, but I also can't wait to see the results once they're modded as well. :nod:

nanokpsi
02-14-2012, 09:07 AM
The Camaros suspension technology may be it's saving grace until power is upped, but that's no garauntee. Look at how the Mustang has been beating up on the M3 Bimmers since the 5.0 was introduced. Granted the Camaro is working with a more advanced set up, but the stick axle Mustang has been going toe to toe or beating the superior suspended, similarly powerful BMW.

Now we're talking a car with a big power and weight advantage taking on a car whose only advantage is it's suspension.

Another thing to consider come time to modify.. Ever see the upper pulley on the new GT500 mill? Not much room to go smaller. The ZL1, however, is pushing less boost and has a much bigger pulley. Granted once the mods start anything goes, but this would be a simple change for the next model year.

You can still go a little smaller on top, but you can always do a lower pulley as well ;)
A lower pulley, thorttlebody and header back GT500 will make 700+whp.
That is a lot of power with a couple very minor changes.

A heads, cam upper and lower LSA does not even get you that.

Nick V.
02-14-2012, 09:28 AM
I am 75% sure I want the 2013 to be my next car when I sell my Z06.

And you said i could have this for free????? right?

http://www.xxlmag.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/tyronebiggumsmarquee.jpg

sweet.

It'llrun
02-14-2012, 11:10 AM
It already is, at least on some courses.

Virginia International Raceway

Ford GT - 3:00.07

2011 GT500 - 2:58.00

I mean I understand different drivers/different days, but it is already approaching or past the GT on the road course.I think he was possibly pointing out that Ford just made the statement, the 2013 GT500 outran the Ford GT, possibly on the Nurburgring course. If that's the case, the ZL1 is truly in trouble against the new GT500.

After all, the GT clearly covered the same ring more quickly than did this all new suspensioned ZL1, which is very similarly powered(and much heavier). It speaks volumes for the ZL1 that it's even close to a GT on probably the most appluaded course in the world, by the way.

On the other hand, I'm not fully convinced he meant to allow THAT cat outta the bag, so maybe he was off-handedly saying it's quicker in general.

Most serious note: If the GT500 is quicker than the GT was ON the ring, that's incredible! Solid axle WONDERCAR! :nod:

Wnts2Go10O
02-14-2012, 03:21 PM
I think he was possibly pointing out that Ford just made the statement, the 2013 GT500 outran the Ford GT, possibly on the Nurburgring course. If that's the case, the ZL1 is truly in trouble against the new GT500.

After all, the GT clearly covered the same ring more quickly than did this all new suspensioned ZL1, which is very similarly powered(and much heavier). It speaks volumes for the ZL1 that it's even close to a GT on probably the most appluaded course in the world, by the way.

On the other hand, I'm not fully convinced he meant to allow THAT cat outta the bag, so maybe he was off-handedly saying it's quicker in general.

Most serious note: If the GT500 is quicker than the GT was ON the ring, that's incredible! Solid axle WONDERCAR! :nod:
it all comes down to weight.

weight, weight, weight, weight, weight..

the ZL needs a damned diet. badly.

Sax1031
02-14-2012, 04:02 PM
I think he was possibly pointing out that Ford just made the statement, the 2013 GT500 outran the Ford GT, possibly on the Nurburgring course. If that's the case, the ZL1 is truly in trouble against the new GT500.

After all, the GT clearly covered the same ring more quickly than did this all new suspensioned ZL1, which is very similarly powered(and much heavier). It speaks volumes for the ZL1 that it's even close to a GT on probably the most appluaded course in the world, by the way.

On the other hand, I'm not fully convinced he meant to allow THAT cat outta the bag, so maybe he was off-handedly saying it's quicker in general.

Most serious note: If the GT500 is quicker than the GT was ON the ring, that's incredible! Solid axle WONDERCAR! :nod:

I don't think he was talking about the ring, but he might have been.

99FormulaM6r
02-14-2012, 08:09 PM
I doubt many people thought it would be quicker than a Ford GT around a road course.

I can understand that, but 650 hp with not a lot of weight doesn't make that earth shattering news IMO. Even with that, the rest of the release was kinda useless to me.

I don't know, maybe it's just that the Q&A had Q's that I didn't have.

ls2pontiac
02-14-2012, 08:38 PM
You are forgetting the shitty interior Fords have. Cheap fake leather, cheap buttons etc. Same with the new camaro too though. The worst thing for me is the solid live axle. The only thing I like about that is the fact you can rev it up to 6000RPM and let the clutch out and not break anything, other than that they flat out suck. I'll take a nice riding/handling ZL1 any day.

TransAmWS.6
02-14-2012, 09:13 PM
You are forgetting the shitty interior Fords have. Cheap fake leather, cheap buttons etc. Same with the new camaro too though. The worst thing for me is the solid live axle. The only thing I like about that is the fact you can rev it up to 6000RPM and let the clutch out and not break anything, other than that they flat out suck. I'll take a nice riding/handling ZL1 any day.

LOL, you have got to be kidding me. Since when does a 650hp Mustang "flat-out suck"? :eyes:

1ltcap
02-14-2012, 09:14 PM
According to the Chief SVT engineer, 2013 GT500 is faster than the Ford GT around the road course, and performance from 0-150mph is very similar.

Here are the coments from Jamal Hameedi from an SVT Q&A that was held today..
Comment From Dylon
When will we see pricing on the new GT500? Quarter Mile times? 0-60 proof?

11:03 Jamal Hameedi: We'll be publishing performance stats in the next few months, trust me, you'll be happy.

Comment From Kevin
Has the MSRP been determined for the '13 GT500?

Ford: MSRP will be revealed soon. We are all smiling over here Kevin!


Comment From Kevin
I'm am interested on how you guys are taking the Chevy mud slinging. Looks as if the GT500 better do its job in a straight line and on a course. How is it performing at nurburg testing? Satisfied with results compared to what the ZL1 has offered to release?

11:06

Jamal Hameedi: We can't wait to get the car in the hands of journalists!
11:06

Jamal Hameedi: and customers as well!

Comment From GARY WOOD
Hello, Is the TORSEN Diff. tough enough for drag racing?

Jamal Hameedi: Yes, we've had the Torsen diff at the drag strip and we've never broken one.


Comment From Sean
With the new Focus-ST and the Boss both being non-SVT vehicles, what is the status or future of the SVT program?
11:07

Jamal Hameedi: Hi Sean, there are SVT engineers working on the ST program. We are all one global performance group now.
11:07
Comment From Guest
As a 2012 SVT Raptor Owner, I was wondering, will ford be hosting any Raptor weekends for owners to come and play with out trucks with a SVT engineer? Also, I love my truck!
11:08

Jamal Hameedi: Look for future Raptor Round-Up's

11:08
Comment From Shant Meg.
I am debating a Shelby with the performance Pack. Will the ride be stiffer than a Shelby without the Performance Pack?
11:09
Jamal Hameedi: Hi Shant, the SVT-engineered Bilstein suspension on comfort mode will offer a nice ride!

Comment From Frank
Congrats on the first 20 Years of SVT, what does the future of SVT look like with the Ford Global business focus?
Jamal Hameedi: Hi Frank, the future is really exciting. When we leverage our global performance engineering capability it means more performance cars at the end of the day for our enthusiasts.

Ford: We just had a question come in from one of our Google+ fans: I'm a big fan of the Ford GT. Between the Shelby GT500 and the Ford GT which one is the superior performer?
Jamal Hameedi: To our friend on Google+. The GT500 and the Ford GT are pretty different vehicles—but we bench marked the GT quite a bit. The GT500 and GT are roughly similar in performance up to 150 MPH and the GT500 is faster on a road course.

Comment From Shant Meg.
Hi Guys, How crucial will the new Track Pack on the Shelby be if I will track the Shelby only a few times in it's lifetime?
11:28 Jamal Hameedi: Hi Shant, if you're an accomplished driver and you track your GT500 you'll definitely want the track pack.
Comment From George B ;)
Will there be a "Track Key" with the 2013GT500 ? Will there be any restrictions or speed limitations on the car whatsoever?
11:26 Jamal Hameedi: Hey George, the GT500 Coupe is not speed-limited.

That is pretty cool to hear :) This info really made them take out the ban hammer over at Camaro 5.


your last comment....i've seen stuff like this referenced before. what's the deal with camaro5? do they ban anyone that doesn't agree with them or something?

i mean....you guys put up with people like me, and for the most part seem like a pretty cool bunch.....even if yas are chevy nuts. :D

1ltcap
02-14-2012, 09:22 PM
Wow.






True. I'm more concerned right now with how the stock ZL1s will run in private (skilled) hands, but I also can't wait to see the results once they're modded as well. :nod:

i foresee a lot of zl1's, and gt500's going into corners way too fast, way too deep, and braking way too late, landing them in the body shop.

that said........ooohhhhh how i almost wish i hadn't bought my gt.....another year of saving money, and i might've had enough to put a nice downpayment on a gt500. black on black leather heated seats, nav, sync...........

It'llrun
02-14-2012, 09:27 PM
I can understand that, but 650 hp with not a lot of weight doesn't make that earth shattering news IMO. Even with that, the rest of the release was kinda useless to me.I thought it was a tad on the "ya don't say" side overall. That said, the GT500 is a friggin' boat on wheels, even though it's lighter than the Camaro or Challenger. It's still a 3800 lb car, or heavier.

You are forgetting the shitty interior Fords have. Cheap fake leather, cheap buttons etc. Same with the new camaro too though. The worst thing for me is the solid live axle. The only thing I like about that is the fact you can rev it up to 6000RPM and let the clutch out and not break anything, other than that they flat out suck. I'll take a nice riding/handling ZL1 any day.That's some harsh talk against the solid axle. I think it's GREAT that any SRA/live axle car can be so efficient. It's less expensive and certainly stronger per pound... and pounding, for that matter.

What makes the live axle "flat out suck," anyway? I mean, it's not like the car doesn't handle better than about 99% of ALL vehicles ever created... So if it's that "good" in real life, I'm having trouble gathering in why anyone would be so staunchly against it, particularly having never even laid eyes on the thing... I have IRS in my DD and it's not something I waste much time thinking over. The ONLY time IRS is truly helpful is on actually rough/bumpy surfaces or when turning at (great) speed. I sense no difference riding along on normal roadways. In fact, my mothers car still rides smoother and it has a live axle.

PS the GT500 already handles as well as the SS, or better. In fact, I'm thinking the current GT500 is on par with the ZL1... SRA and all. I just don't see saying "that sucks" because it's not something which has been hyped for years, even though it does the same job for thousands less... I guess I just missed that specific (short) bus. :jest:

LS1LT1
02-14-2012, 11:48 PM
Most serious note: If the GT500 is quicker than the GT was ON the ring, that's incredible! Solid axle WONDERCAR! :nod:I agree. :nod: :cool:




I thought it was a tad on the "ya don't say" side overall. That said, the GT500 is a friggin' boat on wheels, even though it's lighter than the Camaro or Challenger. It's still a 3800 lb car, or heavier.Closer to 3850 I believe...and I'm thinking that the 2013 might even be over 3900+.

jmurray87
02-15-2012, 01:47 AM
your last comment....i've seen stuff like this referenced before. what's the deal with camaro5? do they ban anyone that doesn't agree with them or something?

i mean....you guys put up with people like me, and for the most part seem like a pretty cool bunch.....even if yas are chevy nuts. :D

Pretty much, there is nothing superior to the 5th Gen according to that crowd...well maybe not that bad but for the most part they are. You disagree with 1 thing on there with them and you are history unlike on here where we have friendly (for the most part) debates...which is part of being a car enthusiast.

1ltcap
02-15-2012, 07:37 AM
Pretty much, there is nothing superior to the 5th Gen according to that crowd...well maybe not that bad but for the most part they are. You disagree with 1 thing on there with them and you are history unlike on here where we have friendly (for the most part) debates...which is part of being a car enthusiast.

wow. that's sad. it almost makes me want to register over there, and see how long it'll take me to get the banstick. :ban: :D

JHL88
02-15-2012, 09:07 AM
wow. that's sad. it almost makes me want to register over there, and see how long it'll take me to get the banstick. :ban: :D

i don't even go over there anymore. don't get me wrong, some of the stuff is very helpful like DIY threads and a bunch of useful info but other than that i stay away.

when i told them i sold my ss and bought a c5z they thought i was crazy.

1ltcap
02-15-2012, 09:20 AM
i don't even go over there anymore. don't get me wrong, some of the stuff is very helpful like DIY threads and a bunch of useful info but other than that i stay away.

when i told them i sold my ss and bought a c5z they thought i was crazy.

so....you bought a better car and they thought ya were nuts? i wonder if they realize that the 5th gen isn't even american? think their heads would explode if someone told them that? :jest:

LS1LT1
02-15-2012, 02:00 PM
so....you bought a better car and they thought ya were nuts?I don't know if I'd necessarily call the C5 Z06 a better car, it might be yes, and it certainly is a better performance car of course. :nod: I personally would rather have a C5 over a 5th gen as well, but I'm just not sure if it's truly a better car in every single way. :)





i wonder if they realize that the 5th gen isn't even american?Well, it is a General Motors Chevrolet Camaro born of American design and engineering built in North America by North Americans not all that far from the American border out of many parts that were also designed and manufactured in America.
Maybe less so than a Corvette or a Mustang, but it's still pretty damn American LOL. :D ;)

1ltcap
02-15-2012, 02:12 PM
I don't know if I'd necessarily call the C5 Z06 a better car, it might be yes, and it certainly is a better performance car of course. :nod: I personally would rather have a C5 over a 5th gen as well, but I'm just not sure if it's truly a better car in every single way. :)





Well, it is a General Motors Chevrolet Camaro born of American design and engineering built in North America by North Americans not all that far from the American border out of many parts that were also designed and manufactured in America.
Maybe less so than a Corvette or a Mustang, but it's still pretty damn American LOL. :D ;)
i was going on the fact that the 5th gen is basically a holden....manaro? i think it is?

LS1LT1
02-15-2012, 03:24 PM
i was going on the fact that the 5th gen is basically a holden....manaro? i think it is?I wouldn't really call it that though I can see where some would say that as well. :nod: There was a lot of Australian/Holden influence in it's structure/design and it does share many underpinnings with the Commodore/G8 that are also based on the same Zeta platform, but the Camaro is still essentially it's own line, not just a rebadging of another car. :)

1ltcap
02-15-2012, 03:30 PM
I wouldn't really call it that though I can see where some would say that as well. :nod: There was a lot of Australian/Holden influence in it's structure/design and it does share many underpinnings with the Commodore/G8 that are also based on the same Zeta platform, but the Camaro is still essentially it's own line, not just a rebadging of another car. :)

yea i know....but it's supposed to be Americas premier muscle car. not north Americas....Americas.....it should be designed and built HERE. that's just my opinion though. there's absolutely no reason chevy couldn't do that car and make ti completely bad ass without going down under.

LS1LT1
02-15-2012, 04:14 PM
yea i know....but it's supposed to be Americas premier muscle car. not north Americas....Americas.....it should be designed and built HERE. that's just my opinion though. there's absolutely no reason chevy couldn't do that car and make ti completely bad ass without going down under....or up north LOL.
I agree. And it's probably at least a small part of why I might lean more towards a Mustang GT over a Camaro SS if I were currently cross shopping the two of them. :usa: :nod:

It'llrun
02-15-2012, 06:35 PM
From what I've seen lately, if there comes a time I decide to buy a new pony car, I have no doubt about 2 things. #1, I like the Dodge best for a number of reasons. #2, I'd buy the Mustang in the end because it comes out on top of the "overall value" category.

That said, I'm not really inclined to buy a new pony car. I went to the local Chevy and Ford dealerships recently and decided I've already learned all I need to about these ponies, so I'm going to look for the cheapest cars on the lot instead. Turns out, I don't want any of them because they just don't seem like solid vehicles to me. SO... If I buy, it's almost bound to be a Corvette of the C6 vintage. It really has proven itself. It's not just a great performer, it also looks simply stunning impo.

bah321
02-16-2012, 09:19 AM
And you said i could have this for free????? right?

http://www.xxlmag.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/tyronebiggumsmarquee.jpg

sweet.

Haha, hmmmm...only if free = 40K

nanokpsi
02-16-2012, 09:36 AM
If I buy, it's almost bound to be a Corvette of the C6 vintage. It really has proven itself. It's not just a great performer, it also looks simply stunning impo.

One thing I dislike about the corvette, is that the next generation is typically so much better, that it makes the previous version not so special. I am not sure if that will carry forward, but it certainly did with the c4 to c5 to c6.

It'llrun
02-16-2012, 12:08 PM
One thing I dislike about the corvette, is that the next generation is typically so much better, that it makes the previous version not so special. I am not sure if that will carry forward, but it certainly did with the c4 to c5 to c6.I agree, but doubt it will with the "C7" because... Well, how much better CAN they get? Unless GM takes the pricing to the $150,000 and up range, it's unlikely the 7 will be all that much greater, considering no brand new engine or even new version of the current engine is expected, along with the consideration of building a smaller engine in the future. Basically... we're left with turbocharging or blasting the price right into supercar territory and I don't see GM doing the latter. I would NEVER be shocked about a turbo Corvette... Don't really expect it though, at all. Maybe the new one is AWD or turbo...

LS1LT1
02-16-2012, 03:05 PM
it's unlikely the 7 will be all that much greater, considering no brand new engine or even new version of the current engine is expectedI do believe that at the very least, a new version of the current engine (engines?) is actually expected (but not definite of course). :nod:
Direct Injection, VVT etc.

And perhaps a noteworthy transmission change as well?
7 speed manual, DCT sequential manuamatic maybe? :burn:

It'llrun
02-16-2012, 10:16 PM
I could live with all that, but I don't see it happening all together in the initial C7 offering. Maybe the smaller DI engine and maybe a 7spd too, but that's about all they'll be able to give.

Irunelevens
02-17-2012, 01:41 AM
You are forgetting the shitty interior Fords have. Cheap fake leather, cheap buttons etc. Same with the new camaro too though. The worst thing for me is the solid live axle. The only thing I like about that is the fact you can rev it up to 6000RPM and let the clutch out and not break anything, other than that they flat out suck. I'll take a nice riding/handling ZL1 any day.
Very bold talk about interior quality from somebody driving a Trailblazer and a 4th generation Camaro...

bah321
02-17-2012, 09:17 AM
I am not one to really place much value on a car's interior but the interior on the newer GT500s is worlds better than any corvette offered now.....and I would have to give it better build quality as well, but not by much. The C7 will probably correct this though.

If ford gets this car to hook up it will run 10s @ 125+ bone stock, and you get this for around 55k-60k new....with huge aftermarket potential. I don't get whats not to like.

MidnightMafia
02-17-2012, 10:45 AM
When it comes to interior 2005-2006 GTO all the way, now the exterior we DON'T need to debate :P

LS1LT1
02-17-2012, 12:31 PM
I am not one to really place much value on a car's interior but the interior on the newer GT500s is worlds better than any corvette offered nowWell, I don't know if I'd go so far as to say "worlds better"...some (not necessarily myself) might even argue that it's barely better at all.
An alcantara steering wheel cover and a Shaker 500 stereo alone don't automatically make an interior 500% better ya know. ;) Those optional Recaro seats are nice though. :nod:





If ford gets this car to hook up it will run 10s @ 125+ bone stockIt is possible, :nod: but that's a big 'if', hoping that the car's new launch control will work some magic. And of course, let's not overlook the weight of the thing either. :nono:

Sax1031
02-17-2012, 01:39 PM
The GT500 is not going to run 10s.

bah321
02-17-2012, 03:12 PM
It is possible, :nod: but that's a big 'if', hoping that the car's new launch control will work some magic. And of course, let's not overlook the weight of the thing either. :nono:

Let me clarify, I'm not saying every one will run 10s in the car. There will be a couple 10 second time slips stock, just like the C6 Z06. I think it will be dead even with a stock C6 Z in the 1/4 mile.

1ltcap
02-17-2012, 03:15 PM
Well, I don't know if I'd go so far as to say "worlds better"...some (not necessarily myself) might even argue that it's barely better at all.
An alcantara steering wheel cover and a Shaker 500 stereo alone don't automatically make an interior 500% better ya know. ;) Those optional Recaro seats are nice though. :nod:





It is possible, :nod: but that's a big 'if', hoping that the car's new launch control will work some magic. And of course, let's not overlook the weight of the thing either. :nono:

while it's not the worst.......the shaker 500 stereo isn't the best out there. in fact, as much as i hate to say this....the factory infinity stereo in my 97 dakota is noticeably better. but that's ok though, 'cause my mustang's crazy fast. that more than makes up for it. :D

88blackgt
02-17-2012, 03:33 PM
while it's not the worst.......the shaker 500 stereo isn't the best out there. in fact, as much as i hate to say this....the factory infinity stereo in my 97 dakota is noticeably better. but that's ok though, 'cause my mustang's crazy fast. that more than makes up for it. :D

Who cares? He didn't say a single weird about the quality or lack thereof of the shaker setup. Lately I think you have just been posting to post.

1ltcap
02-17-2012, 03:58 PM
Who cares? He didn't say a single weird about the quality or lack thereof of the shaker setup. Lately I think you have just been posting to post.

look at what i quoted. stop being obtuse.

88blackgt
02-17-2012, 04:00 PM
look at what i quoted. stop being obtuse.

If you think that's a response to what he said you missed the point

1ltcap
02-17-2012, 04:01 PM
If you think that's a response to what he said you missed the point

you're still being obtuse. he mentioned the shaker500. i simply noted to him that the shaker isn't all that great of a system, compared to what's out there.

LS1LT1
02-18-2012, 01:24 AM
The GT500 is not going to run 10s.I agree.




Let me clarify, I'm not saying every one will run 10s in the car. There will be a couple 10 second time slips stock, just like the C6 Z06. I think it will be dead even with a stock C6 Z in the 1/4 mile.I disagree.
The car is just too heavy (more specifically, nose heavy) and just too 'traction limited' to pull that off.
Launch control will help with the traction part (but not the weight) and even then it's going to be a 'give and take' situation. In order to give the tires traction it's going to have to cut (take) some power out and/or lightly apply some rear braking. Cutting the power is of course going to reduce the chances even more of getting a 4000-4100+ pound (with driver) manual transmissioned car into the 10s.
11.3x, maybe a high 11.2x at 125+mph is the 'magic number' for a pure bone stock 2013 GT500, in my opinion.

But yes, a 10.9x with only the addition of a drag radial or slick is still possible. :nod:
Then add in full bolt ons with weight reduction/skinnies and it might even go 9.9x with an internally stock motor too. :eek:

Irunelevens
02-18-2012, 02:08 AM
I agree.




I disagree.
The car is just too heavy (more specifically, nose heavy) and just too 'traction limited' to pull that off.
Launch control will help with the traction part (but not the weight) and even then it's going to be a 'give and take' situation. In order to give the tires traction it's going to have to cut (take) some power out and/or lightly apply some rear braking. Cutting the power is of course going to reduce the chances even more of getting a 4000-4100+ pound (with driver) manual transmissioned car into the 10s.
11.3x, maybe a high 11.2x at 125+mph is the 'magic number' for a pure bone stock 2013 GT500, in my opinion.

But yes, a 10.9x with only the addition of a drag radial or slick is still possible. :nod:
Then add in full bolt ons with weight reduction/skinnies and it might even go 9.9x with an internally stock motor too. :eek:

I'm thinking more like a 10.7x or so on a tire...the current car has already been 11.1x.

LS1LT1
02-18-2012, 04:20 AM
I'm thinking more like a 10.7x or so on a tire...the current car has already been 11.1x.True, but that was also with front skinnies on as well. I was talking just a rear tire change.
Skinnies alone can be worth up to a 2/10ths reduction in ET and well over a 1mph gain in trap speeds depending on which ones are being used.

But yes, with drag radials and skinnies, a 10.7x might also be possible from an otherwise bone stock 2013 GT500. :drive:

1ltcap
02-18-2012, 07:43 AM
I agree.




I disagree.
The car is just too heavy (more specifically, nose heavy) and just too 'traction limited' to pull that off.
Launch control will help with the traction part (but not the weight) and even then it's going to be a 'give and take' situation. In order to give the tires traction it's going to have to cut (take) some power out and/or lightly apply some rear braking. Cutting the power is of course going to reduce the chances even more of getting a 4000-4100+ pound (with driver) manual transmissioned car into the 10s.
11.3x, maybe a high 11.2x at 125+mph is the 'magic number' for a pure bone stock 2013 GT500, in my opinion.

But yes, a 10.9x with only the addition of a drag radial or slick is still possible. :nod:
Then add in full bolt ons with weight reduction/skinnies and it might even go 9.9x with an internally stock motor too. :eek:

the 2012 gt500 is only 3820 with weight distribution of 56/44. that's not really a bad balance for what the car is, and definitly not that nose heavy.
do you think the 2013's going to be that much heavier? i mean the engine was brought out to 5.8 by using that cylinder spraying procedure that ford has. that saved a few pounds. it's got a lighter driveshaft than the 012 supposedly. i don't think the supercharger's gonna add that much weight.

LS1LT1
02-18-2012, 12:14 PM
the 2012 gt500 is only 3820 with weight distribution of 56/44. that's not really a bad balance for what the car is, and definitly not that nose heavy.Oh ok, I'd read somewhere that it was actually 3850 pounds, but maybe not.
And no 56/44 isn't horrible, but it's certainly not as favorable (for straight line traction) as 44/56 or even 50/50 is.




do you think the 2013's going to be that much heavier? i mean the engine was brought out to 5.8 by using that cylinder spraying procedure that ford has. that saved a few pounds. it's got a lighter driveshaft than the 012 supposedly. i don't think the supercharger's gonna add that much weight.We're not yet totally sure what other potential weight savings measures (carbon fiber, aluminum pieces etc.) they might be putting into the 2013 so I could be wrong on the car's final race weight. But when a major car manufacturer adds that kind of power to an already existing platform that's going to have a warranty, they typically upgrade/strengthen the supporting drive line (trans, rear, clutch etc.) components, the brakes/braking system and even the structure, that all adds weight.
My guess is that the 2013 GT500 will weigh roughly 40-75 pounds more than a standard 2012 which is not bad at all considering that it will also have an extra 100hp (if everything goes as planned of course) to carry it around. :nod:

D3VIL
02-19-2012, 02:11 AM
One thing I dislike about the corvette, is that the next generation is typically so much better, that it makes the previous version not so special. I am not sure if that will carry forward, but it certainly did with the c4 to c5 to c6.

That's one thing I absolutely love about the corvette :D

This is how I think about it: a stock ZL1(that is hitting the show rooms soon) is doing the 1/4 mile in 12flat. The 10yr old 02+C5Z that can be bought for 20k will do 11.8-12.2 depending on the tire.
And on top of all that... 26+mpg hwy
And on top of all that... amazing handling
And on top of all that... still very beautiful looking(not outdated at all IMO, unlike the C4).

D3VIL
02-19-2012, 02:20 AM
Let me clarify, I'm not saying every one will run 10s in the car. There will be a couple 10 second time slips stock, just like the C6 Z06. I think it will be dead even with a stock C6 Z in the 1/4 mile.

Wasn't the Z06 10.7/8ish with DR's?

I'd say that's comfortably in the 10's not a 10.97 or anything. Give it to Ranger and he'll do 10.7/8ish all day :D

LS1LT1
02-19-2012, 05:41 AM
Wasn't the Z06 10.7/8ish with DR's?Yes, best of 10.71@130+mph, bone stock other than the drag radials. :burn:

mikep
02-19-2012, 06:34 AM
Hey maybe lose that antenna.

It'llrun
02-19-2012, 09:21 PM
But yes, a 10.9x with only the addition of a drag radial or slick is still possible. :nod:
Then add in full bolt ons with weight reduction/skinnies and it might even go 9.9x with an internally stock motor too. :eek:I wouldn't be shocked to see these cars running 10.70's with ONLY a set of slicks added. Otherwise, I'll almost have to call it "over-hyped" from the onset... Of course, I would only expect 11 ohs here and there, as most people simply do NOT know how to drag race! :bang: <~ average driver ... ~> :D the good ones.

LS1LT1
02-19-2012, 09:49 PM
I wouldn't be shocked to see these cars running 10.70's with ONLY a set of slicks added. Otherwise, I'll almost have to call it "over-hyped" from the onset...True.
I guess I'm looking at it this way, the ZR1 makes 638 which is less but still close enough to 650hp. The ZR1 also weighs roughly 500 pounds less than the GT500.
100 pounds usually equals roughly one full tenth.
Two different ZR1s have now run in the 10.33 - 10.42 range on separate days with rear drag radials as the only modification.
The GT500's solid rear will likely give it the ability to be launched much harder which could help it 'out sixty foot' the ZR1 but it's extra weight also pulls some of that sixty foot back as well.
None of this is an exact science of course but the math so far does have the bone stock (with drag radials) 2013 GT500 in roughly the high 10.7 to low 10.9 range at over 126mph in good air with a great driver. :drive:

jmurray87
03-15-2012, 09:58 AM
Pricing starts at $54,995. That's $900 more then the starting price of a ZL1 but lower then what most were expecting the 2013 to jump to.

http://jalopnik.com/5893536/2013-shelby-gt500-pricing-starts-at-54995

Z Fury
03-15-2012, 10:45 AM
Pricing is in-line with the ZL-1, as I figured it would be. Now lets see some track numbers. :)

LS1LT1
03-15-2012, 01:28 PM
Pricing starts at $54,995. That's $900 more then the starting price of a ZL1 but lower then what most were expecting the 2013 to jump to.

http://jalopnik.com/5893536/2013-shelby-gt500-pricing-starts-at-54995Wow, they really pulled it off, I'm impressed. :thumb:
That (along with the Camaro ZL1 as well of course) is going to be A LOT OF PERFORMANCE CAR for the money. :drive:

demarco313
03-15-2012, 05:32 PM
Just some quick facts about the 2013 GT500:

The 2013 GT500 will still weigh 3850

It does start at 54,995 (Destination included)

The Shelby will also complete the 1/4 mile in 3rd gear!

It does avoid the gax guzzler tax which is a BIG PLUS. (zl1 doesn't which will boost it's price by over 1k)

It's got a 5.8L alluminum block with a 2.3 TVS supercharger running 15psi stock

Produces 500lb-ft of torque @2k rpm.

Ford has upgraded the clutch to a larger diameter twin-disc unit, the transmission gears feature less helix and the case and bearings have been strengthened too.

It's detuned by quite a bit according to Ford. So with a tune alone it will see a nice gain.

It now has a single piece carbon fiber driveshaft that replaces the 2 piece steel unit found on the 2011-12 which is 15 pounds lighter.

The GT500 was rated from ford at 650hp but thats at 6250rpm. The redline on the new GT500 is actually 7k and at that rpm will produce 670 according to Ford so in come cases you can say it's really 670HP. I think they rated it at the 6250rpm due to the fact that you can only hold redline in each gear at 7k for 8 seconds which is crazy. Who actually stays at redline in any gear for that long.

GT500 doesn't have a speed limiter on it (only the coupe) and has been tested to be the 1st muscle car to reach 200mph. 202 to be exact. Convertible will be limited to 155.

The GT500 doesn't come with an external engine oil cooler, rear differential cooler and transmission cooler standard like the ZL1 does. That is an option called Track Package.

The GT500 also has 33% more downforce at 160mph compared to the 11-12 GT500.

The 2013 GT500 final drive ratio is 3.31 now compared to the 3.55 or the optional 3.73 which were on the 2011-12.


For more technical and good info about the GT500 check this out.

http://stangsunited.com/showthread.php?5200-Birdman-s-Review-of-the-2013-GT500

LS1LT1
03-15-2012, 07:24 PM
It now has a single piece carbon fiber driveshaft that replaces the 2 piece steel unit found on the 2011-12 which is 15 pounds lighter.I think it's actually an 11 pound savings but good news either way. :nod:

DRIVESHAFT

Connecting the new upgraded transmission to the Torsen T2 differential is a 11-lb.-lighter single-piece carbon shaft than the previous two piece DS.






The 2013 GT500 final drive ratio is 3.31 now compared to the 3.55 or the optional 3.73 which were on the 2011-12.Ok, that's probably what's helping them reach that 202mph and even helping them avoid the gas guzzler tax a little bit, it might also hurt acceleration over a 2012 '3.73 geared' car as well but the extra 100hp should MORE than make up for that. :thumb:

demarco313
03-15-2012, 08:04 PM
I think it's actually an 11 pound savings but good news either way. :nod:

DRIVESHAFT

Connecting the new upgraded transmission to the Torsen T2 differential is a 11-lb.-lighter single-piece carbon shaft than the previous two piece DS.





Ok, that's probably what's helping them reach that 202mph and even helping them avoid the gas guzzler tax a little bit, it might also hurt acceleration over a 2012 '3.73 geared' car as well but the extra 100hp should MORE than make up for that. :thumb:

I've actually seen 11, 13 and 15pounds from other sources lol. Either way11-15 is still only a 4 pound diff :)

Here is another good read. On this site they said 13 pounds lol.

http://www.musclemustangfastfords.com/features/mmfp_1202_2013_ford_mustang_shelby_gt500_rocket_la uncher/index.html


Exactly. That's why it's able to achieve it's 202 mph mark. Ford said their intention from the start was to have the 1st muscle car to hit 200+mph and that was their main focus along with doing it without a gas guzzler tax.

Yes it will hurt the acceleration with 3.31s but will at least be easier to launch along with the LC that's supposed to be awesome. It's in that link right up above. It's a good read if you haven't read it.

Ford should've rated it at it's true hp # which is 670hp at 7k not 650 @6250rpm. Maybe they just wanted to try and embarrass the ZL1 even more since people will think it's only 650hp lol

Either way, with just a tune, slicks and 3.73s or 4.10s this thing will be SICK!

gocartone
03-15-2012, 08:23 PM
Pricing starts at $54,995. That's $900 more then the starting price of a ZL1 but lower then what most were expecting the 2013 to jump to.

http://jalopnik.com/5893536/2013-shelby-gt500-pricing-starts-at-54995

Pricing is the same, the $54,995 includes the destination charge on the Ford, which Chevy charges $900 for on the ZL1.



The GT500 doesn't come with an external engine oil cooler, rear differential cooler and transmission cooler standard like the ZL1 does. That is an option called Track Package.



Is this a for sure thing? The website doesn't list anything about a track pack, unless I'm missing it somewhere.

Still can't believe how many people were saying this car would be $70k+, go Ford for making by far the cheapest car that breaks the 200mph barrier. So this car has a 90hp advantage on the ZL1 along with being quite a bit lighter...for the same price! Can't wait to see these two go head to head, although I'm guessing the GT500 is going to run circles around the ZL1...everywhere.

demarco313
03-15-2012, 08:40 PM
Pricing is the same, the $54,995 includes the destination charge on the Ford, which Chevy charges $900 for on the ZL1.



Is this a for sure thing? The website doesn't list anything about a track pack, unless I'm missing it somewhere.

Still can't believe how many people were saying this car would be $70k+, go Ford for making by far the cheapest car that breaks the 200mph barrier. So this car has a 90hp advantage on the ZL1 along with being quite a bit lighter...for the same price! Can't wait to see these two go head to head, although I'm guessing the GT500 is going to run circles around the ZL1...everywhere.

Yes sir. It's a sure thing about the track pack. It states that in the link in 1st thread I made. Here is the link again. :) It's an option on the GT500 while being standard on the Zl1. It's really only needed though if you plan on doing a lot of road racing. It's not needed if your just going to the drag strip or if your not into serious road racing.

http://stangsunited.com/showthread.p...the-2013-GT500

They also have a performance package also. That's in this link to ^^^ :)

TransAmWS.6
03-15-2012, 08:57 PM
Wow, so, the MSRP on the GT500 is really going to be 55k? I was thinking that it was going to be at least 60 something, very nice, this car is going to be killer. The ZL1 is impressive in it's own way, but honestly I don't think it will be able to compete with the GT500.

BLUE OVAL TURBO
03-15-2012, 09:37 PM
I'm thinking with 500 lb-ft @ 2,000 rpm and 650 (670 ) hp to boot ....The 3.31:1 gears won't hurt acceleration versus the '11 -'12 models. This thing makes almost the same torque @ 2k that these models made ( 510 lb-ft ) max. :D

It'llrun
03-16-2012, 01:08 AM
So the 2 are identically priced, since the destination charge for the ZL1 is $900... The ZL1 will be a bit more expensive, thanks to that (roughly) $1,300 guzzler penalty. Of course, it comes with some nice performance aids that are not standard on the GT500.

At this point, I'm honestly thinking that in a straight line, the ZL1 is going to be absolutely crushed, stock for stock or tuned for tuned. The only factor will be traction. With its track aids at work, I think the ZL1 will be a better car in base form than the GT500, on a lengthy road course where braking is quite important... Say, the ring... More of what I'm thinking though, is lap after lap, when heat soak can become a real issue, I think the ZL1 will look better. Not like most people will buy one for road racing, but hey...

Seems nice though, you can get the GT500 with navigation and more for about 62-63k... It's a bunch of car for that price. :judge:

Heater
03-16-2012, 08:47 AM
I am fully expecting the media to do more comparisons of the GT500 with the ZR1 than the ZL1.

1QWIKZ
03-16-2012, 09:10 AM
jesus, the interior on the shelby is nice. excellent info demarco313, i was ready and waiting to buy a 2013 Boss, but now.....

-Ross-
03-16-2012, 12:18 PM
You are forgetting the shitty interior Fords have. Cheap fake leather, cheap buttons etc. Same with the new camaro too though. The worst thing for me is the solid live axle. The only thing I like about that is the fact you can rev it up to 6000RPM and let the clutch out and not break anything, other than that they flat out suck. I'll take a nice riding/handling ZL1 any day.

"Shirley, you can't be serious?"

LS1LT1
03-16-2012, 03:03 PM
Ford should've rated it at it's true hp # which is 670hp at 7k not 650 @6250rpm. Maybe they just wanted to try and embarrass the ZL1 even more since people will think it's only 650hp lolThey might've even done it just so that they can still increase the 'power ratings' in later model years (2014/2015 etc.) 'for free', so to speak. :nod:





Wow, so, the MSRP on the GT500 is really going to be 55k? I was thinking that it was going to be at least 60 somethingMe too, I thought the base MSRP was going to be at least $57k+, kudos to Ford on this one. :nod:





At this point, I'm honestly thinking that in a straight line, the ZL1 is going to be absolutely crushed, stock for stock or tuned for tuned.You may be right, I just can't see a bone stock ZL1 running anything quicker than an 11.6 or 11.5 quarter mile even in great conditions. But at a lighter 3850 pounds and 650+hp the GT500 should be capable of 11.3/11.2 second quarter miles times in the right hands. :nod:
On a drag radial/slick, both cars will improve GREATLY but the Mustang will still have the advantage (probably high 10s with a great driver in good air). :drive:

gocartone
03-16-2012, 04:33 PM
You may be right, I just can't see a bone stock ZL1 running anything quicker than an 11.6 or 11.5 quarter mile even in great conditions. But at a lighter 3850 pounds and 650+hp the GT500 should be capable of 11.3/11.2 second quarter miles times in the right hands. :nod:
On a drag radial/slick, both cars will improve GREATLY but the Mustang will still have the advantage (probably high 10s with a great driver in good air). :drive:

This car is going to have no problem clicking of 10s with slicks, we are talking almost 700hp here. It has .4 more lbs per horsepower than a ZR1, .8lbs per horsepower LESS than a Z06, that puts it in the mid-upper 120 trap speed range, maybe even clicking off low 130s in great air. To think, 10 years ago the best Ford had to offer was barely hitting 100, just cracking the 13sec barrier, and had less than half as much horsepower! Thank God the government hasn't stepped in on these horsepower wars yet.

7998
03-16-2012, 05:18 PM
This car is going to have no problem clicking of 10s with slicks, we are talking almost 700hp here. It has .4 more lbs per horsepower than a ZR1, .8lbs per horsepower LESS than a Z06, that puts it in the mid-upper 120 trap speed range, maybe even clicking off low 130s in great air. To think, 10 years ago the best Ford had to offer was barely hitting 100, just cracking the 13sec barrier, and had less than half as much horsepower! Thank God the government hasn't stepped in on these horsepower wars yet.

Wow that is stupid crazy, it has a better hp/lb ratio than a Z06 and 4 tenths more than a ZR-1. If your info is correct that really puts it in a whole new perspective.
Geez I remember the getting excited over the new 190hp H.O 15 second IROC, lol. 14's were Vette territory.
Great time to be alive.

Irunelevens
03-16-2012, 06:13 PM
Wow that is stupid crazy, it has a better hp/lb ratio than a Z06 and 4 tenths more than a ZR-1. If your info is correct that really puts it in a whole new perspective.
Geez I remember the getting excited over the new 190hp H.O 15 second IROC, lol. 14's were Vette territory.
Great time to be alive.

QFT :nod:

1ltcap
03-16-2012, 07:54 PM
I think it's actually an 11 pound savings but good news either way. :nod:

DRIVESHAFT

Connecting the new upgraded transmission to the Torsen T2 differential is a 11-lb.-lighter single-piece carbon shaft than the previous two piece DS.






Ok, that's probably what's helping them reach that 202mph and even helping them avoid the gas guzzler tax a little bit, it might also hurt acceleration over a 2012 '3.73 geared' car as well but the extra 100hp should MORE than make up for that. :thumb:


it is. it also lets them hit 62mph in 1st gear. i'd guess in the mid to upper 3 second range 0-60 with that.

1ltcap
03-16-2012, 07:57 PM
Pricing is the same, the $54,995 includes the destination charge on the Ford, which Chevy charges $900 for on the ZL1.



Is this a for sure thing? The website doesn't list anything about a track pack, unless I'm missing it somewhere.

Still can't believe how many people were saying this car would be $70k+, go Ford for making by far the cheapest car that breaks the 200mph barrier. So this car has a 90hp advantage on the ZL1 along with being quite a bit lighter...for the same price! Can't wait to see these two go head to head, although I'm guessing the GT500 is going to run circles around the ZL1...everywhere.


there was something i had read that jamal hameedi said that they do this because there's cruisers that'll never need or want that track pack...and then there's the guys that'll buy it because they're tracking their car.

as per usual, it's about choices.

1ltcap
03-16-2012, 07:59 PM
Yes sir. It's a sure thing about the track pack. It states that in the link in 1st thread I made. Here is the link again. :) It's an option on the GT500 while being standard on the Zl1. It's really only needed though if you plan on doing a lot of road racing. It's not needed if your just going to the drag strip or if your not into serious road racing.

http://stangsunited.com/showthread.p...the-2013-GT500

They also have a performance package also. That's in this link to ^^^ :)

linkie no workie.

gocartone
03-16-2012, 10:17 PM
there was something i had read that jamal hameedi said that they do this because there's cruisers that'll never need or want that track pack...and then there's the guys that'll buy it because they're tracking their car.

as per usual, it's about choices.

Only reason I question it is because I see no mention of it on their website, only seen people that are talking about the car mention the track pack. I know the old cars had it, so IDK if people are just making asses out of themselves when talking about it.

LS1LT1
03-16-2012, 11:30 PM
In 2012 the Track Pack includes the 3.73 gears (to replace the standard 3.55s), right?

But for 2013 I'm assuming that the package no longer includes any optional gears, just the standard 3.31s and that's it?

demarco313
03-16-2012, 11:34 PM
linkie no workie.

Sorry not sure why it didn't work in this post. The same link still works in post #82 which is where I originally posted it. Here it is again.

http://stangsunited.com/showthread.php?5200-Birdman-s-Review-of-the-2013-GT500

demarco313
03-16-2012, 11:40 PM
In 2012 the Track Pack includes the 3.73 gears (to replace the standard 3.55s), right?

But for 2013 I'm assuming that the package no longer includes any optional gears, just the standard 3.31s and that's it?

That is correct. On the 2012 the track package includes the 3.73 gears which replaced the 3.55s.

Yes I don't think it's an option as of right now but ford fans have been complaining about that so maybe they may add that eventually as part of the package. Not everybody cares about going even close to 200mph. Most ppl will give up top speed for better acceleration. The 3.31s are a benefit in certain ways though especially since it allows the Shelby to complete the 1/4 mile in 3rd gear. 1 less shift :) I'm sure with the 3.73s they wouldn't have been able to avoid the gas guzzler tax also.

gocartone
03-16-2012, 11:48 PM
Didn't they change all the gear ratios, besides 4th? Maybe I'm remembering wrong, but I thought it was all new gears in this car, so you won't be able to compare a 2012 to a 2013 with different rear gears. Either way, rear gears on a car like this aren't going to make much of a difference. Changing gears in a car that makes 500ft/lbs at 2000rpms is nothing like doing it in a higher revving N/A car. And when we are talking about a 120hp difference between the '12 and '13, it's laughable at best to think the gears are going to make it a close race.

Irunelevens
03-16-2012, 11:55 PM
In 2012 the Track Pack includes the 3.73 gears (to replace the standard 3.55s), right?

But for 2013 I'm assuming that the package no longer includes any optional gears, just the standard 3.31s and that's it?

I'm gonna guess they're gonna offer something steeper at some point for people that are more focused on road course racing.

demarco313
03-16-2012, 11:55 PM
Didn't they change all the gear ratios, besides 4th? Maybe I'm remembering wrong, but I thought it was all new gears in this car, so you won't be able to compare a 2012 to a 2013 with different rear gears. Either way, rear gears on a car like this aren't going to make much of a difference. Changing gears in a car that makes 500ft/lbs at 2000rpms is nothing like doing it in a higher revving N/A car. And when we are talking about a 120hp difference between the '12 and '13, it's laughable at best to think the gears are going to make it a close race.

Yes you're correct. Here is a quote from the link I posted:

For the first time the Shelby GT500 will utilize a 2.66 close ratio first gear thus eliminating the dreaded “nose dive” from 1-2 shift and will get the GT500 to about 62 mph at 7000 rpm . In fact every gear besides fourth was optimized

LS1LT1
03-17-2012, 02:20 AM
For the first time the Shelby GT500 will utilize a 2.66 close ratio first gearAnd when we are talking about a 120hp difference between the '12 and '13, it's laughable at best to think the gears are going to make it a close race.True, but let's not dismiss/overlook the importance of gearing for good acceleration...
2012 with 3.73s (optional) and a 2.97 1st gear.
2013 with 3.31s and now a 2.66 1st gear.
Yes, that extra 100-120hp is still more than enough to erase that gearing loss (and then some), but it's not as if one can look at the 2012 GT500 and just say "cool, the 2013s are going to be a full '100-120hp quicker' in the 1/4 mile" because it could be a little deceiving.
In other words, it gains lots of acceleration power over the 2012 but gives some of that acceleration back in gearing.
This is assuming both cars having the exact same rear tires as well.
And then there's the new traction/launch control system to factor in as well. :nod:

gocartone
03-17-2012, 08:00 AM
Honestly though, how much does that really matter when we are talking a 670hp 600ft/lb car? I have a feeling with all the new stuff in the car it's going to be more than 100-120hp quicker in the 1/4 mile.

7998
03-17-2012, 11:26 AM
True, but let's not dismiss/overlook the importance of gearing for good acceleration...
2012 with 3.73s (optional) and a 2.97 1st gear.
2013 with 3.31s and now a 2.66 1st gear.
Yes, that extra 100-120hp is still more than enough to erase that gearing loss (and then some), but it's not as if one can look at the 2012 GT500 and just say "cool, the 2013s are going to be a full '100-120hp quicker' in the 1/4 mile" because it could be a little deceiving.
In other words, it gains lots of acceleration power over the 2012 but gives some of that acceleration back in gearing.
This is assuming both cars having the exact same rear tires as well.
And then there's the new traction/launch control system to factor in as well. :nod:

I read somewhere the reason for the gear reductions was to improve traction.
3.73's + 2.97 1st gear was worthless. The '13 make the '12 peak torque at 2000 rpm.

LS1LT1
03-17-2012, 01:56 PM
Honestly though, how much does that really matter when we are talking a 670hp 600ft/lb car?I read somewhere the reason for the gear reductions was to improve traction.
3.73's + 2.97 1st gear was worthless. The '13 make the '12 peak torque at 2000 rpm.Agreed, the car is going to be an animal either way. :nod:

Johnnystock
03-17-2012, 02:23 PM
I kinda feel stupid to mod my car now seeing how nicely 'modded' the ZL1 and Shelby will be right from factory :( I've got more than 50K total invested for my car...damn!

I want one of those car badly!!

1ltcap
03-17-2012, 06:59 PM
Only reason I question it is because I see no mention of it on their website, only seen people that are talking about the car mention the track pack. I know the old cars had it, so IDK if people are just making asses out of themselves when talking about it.

i went playing on fords website last night. according to that, with the track pack, and i think i opted the nav package into it.......58k.

1ltcap
03-17-2012, 07:00 PM
In 2012 the Track Pack includes the 3.73 gears (to replace the standard 3.55s), right?

But for 2013 I'm assuming that the package no longer includes any optional gears, just the standard 3.31s and that's it?

there were no optional gears showing when i went playing.

1ltcap
03-17-2012, 07:04 PM
True, but let's not dismiss/overlook the importance of gearing for good acceleration...
2012 with 3.73s (optional) and a 2.97 1st gear.
2013 with 3.31s and now a 2.66 1st gear.
Yes, that extra 100-120hp is still more than enough to erase that gearing loss (and then some), but it's not as if one can look at the 2012 GT500 and just say "cool, the 2013s are going to be a full '100-120hp quicker' in the 1/4 mile" because it could be a little deceiving.
In other words, it gains lots of acceleration power over the 2012 but gives some of that acceleration back in gearing.
This is assuming both cars having the exact same rear tires as well.
And then there's the new traction/launch control system to factor in as well. :nod:

what they're trying to do, is to limit....or control the torque to the ground. that extra 100-150hp, combined with the torque hitting 500 at only 2k rpm would simply convert the tires to a white misty stuff.

gocartone
03-17-2012, 08:43 PM
i went playing on fords website last night. according to that, with the track pack, and i think i opted the nav package into it.......58k.

You mean the performance pack, still nothing about a track pack with all the extra coolers on their website.

It'llrun
03-17-2012, 09:09 PM
i went playing on fords website last night. according to that, with the track pack, and i think i opted the nav package into it.......58k.I "built" my own tonight... $68,720. Of course, I chose the 'vert with the performance package(still doesn't show any gear change and, why would it, for a PALTRY $3,495.00!), navigation(part of $2340.00 electronics package, I guess), Shaker Pro stereo(another $1295.00), Recaro leather seats and my ONLY gripe is, I couldn't find a way to delete those damned ugly "HERE I AM, HERE I AM!" racing stripes!

Cool car and I think I'm surprised Ford's allowing "orders" so soon. The funny thing I noticed in the end is, when I went looking for a match, it showed me a $45,465.00 2013 Mustang Boss 302. That's all good, but c'mon... looking for a 2013 GT500?? Who's "settling" for a Boss 302??? Not me.

King Nothing
03-18-2012, 11:23 AM
Camaro5.com = bunch of stuck up idiots who think the Camaro is gods gift of a car and everything else is unworthy. I hate reading that site talk about fanboys.
i was going to say they think their 5th gens are God's gift.

King Nothing
03-18-2012, 11:33 AM
You can still go a little smaller on top, but you can always do a lower pulley as well ;)
A lower pulley, thorttlebody and header back GT500 will make 700+whp.
That is a lot of power with a couple very minor changes.

A heads, cam upper and lower LSA does not even get you that.
Really? what does that get you?

gocartone
03-18-2012, 01:04 PM
Really? what does that get you?

A blown engine...ha! What's the power limit on the LSAs? I doubt they would handle 700whp without a built engine, but I haven't read anything on the CTS-V pushing the block to its limit, so I really don't know.

1ltcap
03-18-2012, 05:03 PM
You mean the performance pack, still nothing about a track pack with all the extra coolers on their website.

hhmm....just caught that. if i were ordering one, i'd sure as hell be checking to see that i was getting those......

DoggyB22
03-18-2012, 10:39 PM
I still don't get why people are making a big deal about the ZL1 & GT500.... The 2012 GT500 was used as a benchmark for the ZL1. Ford responded with the 2013 GT500 once the ZL1 specs were released.. So that just means GM will respond to the 2013 GT500 with a faster ZL1 & I think they will also up the hp in the C7 ZR1

It'llrun
03-18-2012, 11:45 PM
I still don't get why people are making a big deal about the ZL1 & GT500.... The 2012 GT500 was used as a benchmark for the ZL1. Ford responded with the 2013 GT500 once the ZL1 specs were released.. So that just means GM will respond to the 2013 GT500 with a faster ZL1 & I think they will also up the hp in the C7 ZR1They may not need to have more power in the C7. If they can make other changes, like weight, traction, available rpm... I'd think those are more in line with their goals because, let's face it, anything over 600hp is just about as close to insane as needed. :devil: Plus, the ZR1 is already incredibly hard for most to handle with all that power. Set it for KILL and it just may!

I expect GM to sit back this year and see just what happens with the newest GT500. For all we know, Ford won't have traction worked out at all and the car will be a mess in general. Having a 100+hp advantage over the ZL1 is huge, but if traction limits the exercise, it becomes futile. Bragging rights for the fastest pony car aren't a great big deal from my house. This I know.

Oh, and by the way... Some people, particularly die hard Chevy fans, are "concerned" about the ZL1 vs GT500 for 1 obvious reason. You hit on it above, but probably got that wrong insofar as "lately" is concerned. Fact is, until the ZL1 we're about to learn so much more about, GM hasn't offered a pony car capable of running with the 2007+GT500(Cobra), let alone a newer GT500... ever. So it's not so certain to all of us that it just means GM will respond. It took them nearly 10yrs to respond to the 2003 Cobra. :judge:

1ltcap
03-19-2012, 08:15 AM
I "built" my own tonight... $68,720. Of course, I chose the 'vert with the performance package(still doesn't show any gear change and, why would it, for a PALTRY $3,495.00!), navigation(part of $2340.00 electronics package, I guess), Shaker Pro stereo(another $1295.00), Recaro leather seats and my ONLY gripe is, I couldn't find a way to delete those damned ugly "HERE I AM, HERE I AM!" racing stripes!

Cool car and I think I'm surprised Ford's allowing "orders" so soon. The funny thing I noticed in the end is, when I went looking for a match, it showed me a $45,465.00 2013 Mustang Boss 302. That's all good, but c'mon... looking for a 2013 GT500?? Who's "settling" for a Boss 302??? Not me.

dude....that is one thing that pissed me off when i kept loloking on their website for my gt.

mine is black/black leather, 6 speed manual, comfort group, 3.73, brembos, premium. that's all i wanted.
i'd go through, click to find matches, and i'd find everything from a 6 cylinder convettible to a gt500/

nanokpsi
03-19-2012, 09:40 AM
Really? what does that get you?

I would wager in the 650-660 area. That combo without the heads nets 610-630 from what I have seen. I would think there is 20-30 in the heads by themselves.

SS#1531
03-20-2012, 12:15 PM
A blown engine...ha! What's the power limit on the LSAs? I doubt they would handle 700whp without a built engine, but I haven't read anything on the CTS-V pushing the block to its limit, so I really don't know.

Well, Lingenfelter does 710hp packages on the CTS-V with ported heads and upper and lower pulleys, nothing done to the bottom end. And they come with a warranty.

gocartone
03-20-2012, 12:22 PM
That's 710 crank horsepower, not at the wheels, correct? That's a good 100+hp shy of putting down 700 at the wheels.

JS
03-21-2012, 09:01 AM
I am no ford guy but the 13 GT-500 is bad ass.....

BLUE OVAL TURBO
03-21-2012, 04:09 PM
They may not need to have more power in the C7. If they can make other changes, like weight, traction, available rpm... I'd think those are more in line with their goals because, let's face it, anything over 600hp is just about as close to insane as needed. :devil: Plus, the ZR1 is already incredibly hard for most to handle with all that power. Set it for KILL and it just may!

I expect GM to sit back this year and see just what happens with the newest GT500. For all we know, Ford won't have traction worked out at all and the car will be a mess in general. Having a 100+hp advantage over the ZL1 is huge, but if traction limits the exercise, it becomes futile. Bragging rights for the fastest pony car aren't a great big deal from my house. This I know.

Oh, and by the way... Some people, particularly die hard Chevy fans, are "concerned" about the ZL1 vs GT500 for 1 obvious reason. You hit on it above, but probably got that wrong insofar as "lately" is concerned. Fact is, until the ZL1 we're about to learn so much more about, GM hasn't offered a pony car capable of running with the 2007+GT500(Cobra), let alone a newer GT500... ever. So it's not so certain to all of us that it just means GM will respond. It took them nearly 10yrs to respond to the 2003 Cobra. :judge:
I agree with several comments made above by you and i also think that the Corvette has reached it's peak of lowered weight. Safety and customer wants/ needs control the weight . 3,200-3,400 lbs is feathery these days considering all the requirements to comply with government rules for safety etc. (IE) '87 Mustang LX/GT 's came in @ 3,100-3,300 depending on options and was no where near full of amenities or safety equipped .