Western Members - Anyone familiar with troubleshooting startup issues in phoenix?

So ive got some issues with the car starting and Im sure its pretty simple to find a solution however I cant for the life of me figure it out. Is there anyone willing/able to help me figure out whats goin on with the car? Willing to pay in beer/small reward for helping me get the car back on the road.

What does it do?

I am sure you can find some folks to help. I would not have time to swing by until the weekend, so if you are still having troubles maybe we can arrange a meet up. No guarantees that I can fix it... or anything at all, but willing to help try and figure it out. :lol:

Starting issues are very easy to troubleshoot usually. What's it doing? Cranking and not starting? Not cranking?

Ok well heres basically whats goin on... A few months ago I had been driving the car and it would just shut off, I would start it back up while coasting, and it would backfire. Let it sit in the garage for 2 weeks, started it back up and it died on me, restarted it and it backfired again so I shut it back off. let it sit for about a month or so, battery died, got it charged, went to crank it back on and it just started cranking but wouldnt turn over and start. my fuel pressure gauge showed 0 on the pressure, we connected a mechanical gauge and tried cranking and it showed 70psi on the mechanical gauge and mine inside the car was fully pegged. Tried cranking it multiple times and the battery just dies so I got it recharged and its just been sitting like that for the past 2 months. Thats where I stand so far.

But I will make time for anyone that has time to come over and help. Even if we cant get it to start any help is appreciated, I just dont wanna pay a motorsport company 1000 bucks to trouble shoot something that should be somewhat simple (unless I have no choice).

Fuel pressure gauge? Inside the car? Well make sure you have fuel+spark. Backfire could be low fuel pressure, incorrect signal from MAF to PMC, cam sensor.

Ok well heres basically whats goin on... A few months ago I had been driving the car and it would just shut off, I would start it back up while coasting, and it would backfire. Let it sit in the garage for 2 weeks, started it back up and it died on me, restarted it and it backfired again so I shut it back off. let it sit for about a month or so, battery died, got it charged, went to crank it back on and it just started cranking but wouldnt turn over and start. my fuel pressure gauge showed 0 on the pressure, we connected a mechanical gauge and tried cranking and it showed 70psi on the mechanical gauge and mine inside the car was fully pegged. Tried cranking it multiple times and the battery just dies so I got it recharged and its just been sitting like that for the past 2 months. Thats where I stand so far.

But I will make time for anyone that has time to come over and help. Even if we cant get it to start any help is appreciated, I just dont wanna pay a motorsport company 1000 bucks to trouble shoot something that should be somewhat simple (unless I have no choice).

Sounds like you have fuel then. Pull a plug and see if its getting spark. To check this just leave the plug attached to the wire and have someone crank the motor. Where did you check fuel pressure with the gauge? At the fuel rail?

Is the check engine light on?

Also... I wouldn't crank it too much. You're not getting oil pressure and could possibly spin a bearing. If you have spark I'd guess its either a cam crank or map sensor. I had a bad map and my car would just randomly die. But thats a sign of fuel pressure, too. But 70 seems high... should be around 58 I believe.

EDIT: if this is your sig monster then 70 psi is understandable.

Is the car in question the one in your Sig? LOL

Also... I wouldn't crank it too much. You're not getting oil pressure and could possibly spin a baring. If you have spark I'd guess its either a cam crank or map sensor. I had a bad map and my car would just randomly die. But thats a sign of fuel pressure, too. But 70 seems high... should be around 58 I believe.

If he has spark it means his crank sensor is ok.

How does it cut off? Does it just die like you would cut the key off or does it stumble and die? You can determine wether it's spark or fuel problem.

If he has spark it means his crank sensor is ok.

How does it cut off? Does it just die like you would cut the key off or does it stumble and die? You can determine wether it's spark or fuel problem.

Yeah but it could need a crank relearn if it's running like shit and dying. But since it won't start at all anymore, yeah it's probably not the crank sensor. If he's getting fuel pressure at the rail it's most likely a spark issue.

ya the mechanical guage was connected at the fuel rail. yes it is my car in the sig... :) Im running hp tuners 3 bar setup on stock pcm, no maf...

when i restarted the car after reconnecting the battery it would need about 70% throttle to idle without dying, and even after 2 mins of keeping the foot on the throttle I let off and the car dies. And no SES light. otherwise I would have read the code.

Oh.. and stock fuel pressure normally is at 58 or so and fluctuates as rpms increase. at WOT usually see 70 or so if I remember correctly.

ya the mechanical guage was connected at the fuel rail. yes it is my car in the sig... :) Im running hp tuners 3 bar setup on stock pcm, no maf...

when i restarted the car after reconnecting the battery it would need about 70% throttle to idle without dying, and even after 2 mins of keeping the foot on the throttle I let off and the car dies. And no SES light. otherwise I would have read the code.

so it starts, or it doesn't start? I don't get it. What are you using to see the throttle percentage? Sounds like the cam sensor to me.

No cam sensor. I doubt the car would start. You need a proper scanner to check data. Your basically looking for your black underwear in pitch black without a flashlight. Just don't be one of those parts changers that throws parts and doesn't fix it. End up spending 100's and can be a simple vaccum line that's broken :)

No cam sensor. I doubt the car would start. You need a proper scanner to check data. Your basically looking for your black underwear in pitch black without a flashlight. Just don't be one of those parts changers that throws parts and doesn't fix it. End up spending 100's and can be a simple vaccum line that's broken :)

When I first built my 454 and installed it i had to swap the cam wires around and one of them fell off and this is exactly how it ran. Took me like 45 min to figure out wtf had happened LOL. Car will hard start and shit all over itself then die if the cam sensor isnt working properly or at all.

Could be a lot of things though. Anything from one of the sensors, to a vacuum line to just needing an idle relearn. Try cleaning the IAT too, this can cause abnormal idle issues. Lot harder to diagnose then a car that just won't start, which is what the original problem was. Or so I thought.

Best off to have someone come or tow it to someone with a scanner as mentioned above. Above doing the obvious stuff he's right, you're just guessing and wasting cash.

It's best to look Around your area and see who has a scanner and knows how to use it. If u would live close I wouldn't mind checking it out.

so it starts, or it doesn't start? I don't get it. What are you using to see the throttle percentage? Sounds like the cam sensor to me.

It does not start... it tries to but never does.

Im using my foot as an estimation process to guess throttle opening lol.

anyone local have a scanning tool to bring over? :) Ill make it worth your while if we can get it up and running!!

Oh man!! What are you doing in return?

Keep us updated. It's pretty hard to help when you are hundreds of miles away.

I guess Id rather just pay someone local a nice cash prize to help me troubleshoot and get it up and running then a shop. havent really decided yet how much but I guess it depends on how long it takes to resolve the issue more or less.

But if someone is willing to help me from this thread I will wait... otherwise I might as well just take it to a shop to get fixed. Anyone suggest a good shop here locally that wont rip me off? Used to take my car to ADC but keith kind of put a bad taste in my mouth after my last visit there so Im kind of hesitant to take it back. Dont like az automasters, bad experience with them. only other one I know of that work on ls1's are extreme motorsports... only purchased an intake manifold from them once but never got work done. Anyone have any suggestions?

For local shops, other than what you have mentioned, I would recommend Top Gear Motorsports and Loud Pedal Motorsports with Loud Pedal being closer to you if you are still in Tukee. I have a hard time finding some free time, or I would head over.

Ok I recharged the battery at o reilly again cause it was dead when I reconnected it today, just got it back, installed it and tried to crank and this is what happens now...

http://www.streetfire.net/video/201202231337008573gp_2377599.htm

Is the battery just toast, or is there something else thats going on now?

Do you work during the day? I might be able to come over after work tomorrow or sometime Saturday to try some things.

Your battery it toast.

Have you done a compression test?
Any water in the oil or oil in the coolent?

Do you work during the day? I might be able to come over after work tomorrow or sometime Saturday to try some things.

I work my own schedule so I can make time for anyone that is willing to come over and help. I do have to be somewhere at 8 pm tonight (friday) but saturday I should also be free. In the mean time Im gonna go try to warranty my battery out or get a brand new one. Fuckers at checker obviously dont know when a battery is no longer good :rolleyes:


I havent done a compression test no, and Its been a while since ive checked the oil/coolant.

Ok so I went in and actually got a new battery. swapped it out and its back to cranking again and not clickin but still wont start. I pulled one of the plugs out while attached to the wire/coil and tried again, but did not see any sparks. So I guess it must be a spark related issue. When I replaced the battery fuel pressure went back up to 60 once I turned the key to the on position and then back down to 0.

So now my question is... where do I begin with spark troubleshooting? How do I test the coil packs to see if they are conducting electricity? Or what else would I check? I pulled the plug on the drivers side closest to the front of the car.

Check the CPS (crankshaft position sensor) and wiring to the CPS. Then check the cps (camshaft position sensor) and wiring to the cps

Replace the ignition relay. its in the fuse box, but it's not a fuse. most likely this is the problem. Read the top of the removable panel and you should be able to locate which one it is. There's actually 3 or 4 of them that do various things between both boxes but are the same part number relay (pretty sure anyway, just make sure the numbers match), just swap one of the non important ones to the ignition relay and see if the car starts.

Although the cam and crank sensor play a major role in timing and can prevent the car from starting, you would still be getting spark. It would be way off from when it should be firing, but it would be there. If you're truly getting 0 spark, then it's not a coil issue. If the ignition relay isn't the problem, I'd locate a second PCM and have your tuner flash your file to it and do a swap. That's the only other thing I can think of unless 1, you have a few bad coils (unlikely that multiple went bad) or 2, you have burned/cut/whatever somewhere in your wiring harness.

If you are really cautious and want to know first if the relay is the problem, put the key in the ignition and turn it forward but do not crank, then use a test light on the injector fuses. The relay should be giving power to the injectors at this time, if there's no power there then this even more confirms the relay. This relay gives power to the injectors as well as the coils.

http://image.gmhightechperformance.com/f/8642570+w750+st0/0411htp_projls1_26_z.jpg

Ok, sorry to revive the dead. lol.

Anyways, Rj came over and helped, we figured out that the pcm was shot, ordered a new one, got nicd to flash it, popped it in and started right up! great! now it idles really rough and then dies after about a minute the first time. Start it back up, idles for about 15 seconds then dies. Keep having the same issues, I pull out my actuator from my throttle body and it didnt have the o ring and didnt seem to be responding very well so we tried rj'sactuator and o ring, idled very smooth but still dies after about 15 seconds every time. Any ideas now on whats goin on with it? Im gonna be gettin a new actuator and O ring tomorrow.

Have you got it scanned yet?

And is that your setup on your sig?

O2 sensors/wiring there of?

setup in sig is correct.

when I started the car it didnt show any codes... however I guess it doesnt mean it couldnt be stored in there though right?

And what do you mean by "O2 sensors/wiring there of?"

Im running open downpipe so i have my o2's for the front and a wideband connected as well. although my wideband is showing 000 on the gauge though.

Is the car properly tuned? Mine did that when it wasn't tuned. It would idle fine and just die all of a sudden. Crank it and give it gas until it would start. Even if o2 sensors weren't connected it would still run and not die.

just got a response from my tuner... its definitely not tune related, same tune has been flashed on a new pcm so thats not the issue.

The same tune was flashed into the new PCM from what I originally did to the original PCM almost 4 years ago. There is another issue...

Maybe rent an OBDII scanner and watch for any parameters out of whack while the car is running.