Road Racing - Road Race Cam Suggestion

I'm finishing up my LS1 swap into my 67 Camaro that will be used primarly for HPDE's and Autox duty, My friends have just about talked me into a cam swap while I have easy access to do so. What you guys suggest for Road Race Duty? 2500 to 6000 rpm? The motor is a 2000 LS1 with an LS6 intake, Headers, emissions deleted, ported TB and it has 241 heads that have not been touched I assume. The motor has 112K on it now, not looking to spend a bunch of money, just swap in a new stick and put it back together. What spec cam would work the best with those simple mods? I have fuel upgrades too, Walboro 255 pump, adj regulator and high flow fuel rails. I assume the injectors are still the stockers at 26lbs, but I'm not against changing those out.

Forgot to mention that its backed up with a ST10 4speed tranny and a corvette IRS with 2.59 gears (I think) from a 96 auto C4.

I'm looking at a package with a MS3 and upgraded springs and pushrods oil pump and chain. Is that too much of a cam for RR applications?

We have road raced ex ASA stock cars for years with the GMPP parts ASA hot cam. It is only .525 lift but pulls hard to 6500 or so and is easy on the valve train.

Look below for the video of the V8 StockCar ex ASA car road racing at Sebring, this would be a 5.7 LS1 with stock compression, ASA cam, 90mm LS2 throttle body and manifold, headers and ECU tune. Makes nearly 500 flywheel hp. Check out how competitiive that thing is.

Schwanke Racing Engines built the motor in that car.

ASA cam does look particualarly good, looks right in the range of what I think I was looking for. Thanks for the suggestion, hadn't even considered it before now.

I'm running a 228/230 .585/.585 112. Good torque down low and screams up top - all with a cool, choppy idle. The small lift is easier on the valvetrain as well.

- Kevin

Is that this one? comp cams xtreme xe-r 224/230, If so My son has just pulled that out of his car in favor of the MS3. So it will be Cheap!

I have 'HotCam' in my sig, but in reality it's the hotcam with a tad change in duration (220/224, 112LSA) and it's great on the track and the powerband you want. I've very happy with this cam for all my needs (cruiser, track days, daily driver, nice cam idle).

Is that this one? comp cams xtreme xe-r 224/230, If so My son has just pulled that out of his car in favor of the MS3. So it will be Cheap!

Well mine is a 228/230 on a 112 and the XE-R specs are as follows: 224/230 .581/.588 114 LSA. The XE-R lobe is very aggressive and could punish the valvetrain with anything more aggressive. Keep in mind how much time a road race car sees 4000-7000rpm...it's a lot! That's why we want to keep ramp rates a little less aggressive and lift much lower than you would typically see in a crazy drag racing cam. Anything above .600 lift is going to be exponentially more abusive to the top end over a course of time. That cam is going to want to live up top with its 114 LSA, but installing it with some advance will bring a boost to low-end torque while the 114 still offers the wide power-band. I honestly believe that this cam will work well with a good set of gears to help you out in the lower RPM range. Get a nice set of headers too. If you go to a less aggressive ramp rate you could possibly squeeze out some extra lift and duration just fine. If you're looking for a custom road race cam that won't break the bank, I know a couple people that have made my cams in the past that will get you set up for around $400 a cam.

Hope this helps.

- Kevin

Thanks Kevin,
The motor in the car has 114K on the clock, I practically own the 224/230 .581/.588 114 LSA Cam, All I have to do it get it from my son's garage. I think I'll throw that in the motor with a 2deg advance and see what happens. I have some Patriot .650 springs that I'll also put on the heads as a safty measure, and I might even pull the heads and port them. I have a good set of OBX stainless long tubes, and not very restrictive exhaust.

I'm still in the stages of building this car, but it's still not ready for track days. Maybe by the late summer or fall, if not it'll be next year.

I'll be at VIR in March with NASA driving the WS6 in my sig. I'm in the HPDE 2 run group if anyone is there look me up.

Thanks Kevin,
The motor in the car has 114K on the clock, I practically own the 224/230 .581/.588 114 LSA Cam, All I have to do it get it from my son's garage. I think I'll throw that in the motor with a 2deg advance and see what happens. I have some Patriot .650 springs that I'll also put on the heads as a safty measure, and I might even pull the heads and port them. I have a good set of OBX stainless long tubes, and not very restrictive exhaust.

I'm still in the stages of building this car, but it's still not ready for track days. Maybe by the late summer or fall, if not it'll be next year.

I'll be at VIR in March with NASA driving the WS6 in my sig. I'm in the HPDE 2 run group if anyone is there look me up.

You're very welcome. Sounds like you got lucky there with the cam. Your son, not so much. haha I ran my 114+4 in my SS as per the suggestion of V-Max Motorsports when they made my "road race-style cam" and it worked out really well. I was going to say, run a killer spring with decent seat pressure, hardened pushrods, and for good measure, maybe a set of roller rockers. :)

Cool man. I'm going to be picking up another car here in the future and turning the GTO into something more extreme. I like the idea I'm always the only GTO on the track because people ALWAYS ask me questions when they get passed by on. haha

Interesting, I was invited out to VIR last year and didn't go. I may have to save my pennies and get out there one of these days. It looks great.

I have a 224/224 @ 114 that was in the car when I bought it. It barely lopes so I was thinking about going a bit bigger myself. That 228/230 looks good! Any vids of it idling?

Does anyone know if the ASA cam can be used with 1.8 to 1 rockers without valve to piston clearance problems?

Is there a source that I can refer to?

Thanks in advance.

I'm using the GM hotcam with Katech heads and a FAST intake. Car still running very well after a dozen track days in 2 years. The lower lift and 112 LSA makes it easy on the valve train while keeping good torque at 3000rpm where you need it accelerating out of the turns. I believe the ASA cam is a 110 LSA which may not be very street friendly but is definitely a proven road race cam.

ASA Hot cam kit w/springs: GMPP 12480033 = 219/228 0.525/0.525 112

ASA Cam 12480110 = 226/236 .525/.525 110

I could not find the kit or a cam with the same specs as the 12480033 at GMPP. It appears as if the 12480110 has replaced the 12480033. I have not called GMPP to confirm.

We have road raced ex ASA stock cars for years with the GMPP parts ASA hot cam. It is only .525 lift but pulls hard to 6500 or so and is easy on the valve train.

Which cam are you referring to, the 219/228 0.525/0.525 112 or the 226/236 .525/.525 110

[EDIT] I think I understand now, people use Hot Cam and ASA interchangeably when in fact there are two cams with different specs. The "Hot Cam" is the milder of the two cams. The "ASA" is the hotter cam.[EDIT]

Thanks

Which cam are you referring to, the 219/228 0.525/0.525 112 or the 226/236 .525/.525 110

[EDIT] I think I understand now, people use Hot Cam and ASA interchangeably when in fact there are two cams with different specs. The "Hot Cam" is the milder of the two cams. The "ASA" is the hotter cam.[EDIT]

Thanks

Yes. I believe that's correct. The "Hot Cam" is a featured mod with the crate LS3.

Which cam are you referring to, the 219/228 0.525/0.525 112 or the 226/236 .525/.525 110

[EDIT] I think I understand now, people use Hot Cam and ASA interchangeably when in fact there are two cams with different specs. The "Hot Cam" is the milder of the two cams. The "ASA" is the hotter cam.[EDIT]

Thanks

the 226/236

Thank you

I have a 224/224 @ 114 that was in the car when I bought it. It barely lopes so I was thinking about going a bit bigger myself. That 228/230 looks good! Any vids of it idling?

I do have some videos I'll try and get up soon.

Keep in mind how much time a road race car sees 4000-7000rpm...it's a lot!


I don't "race" (track days are not races, so they say), but at my track days I actually feel bad for the car and never go over 5800-6000RPM. The average RPM isn't as high as you might think. I stay in 3rd and 4th most of the time. Accelerating out of a turn is hard to do at WOT with this much power in a low gear (1st or 2nd). Mid range torque is my suggestion to shoot for.

To the OP - are you going to race the car, or just track days? There IS a difference. Racing you want every last tenth you can get. Track days, they don't even time the laps (most of them anyway) since it's not a competition. It's meant to have fun, push your car, but at the same time, in a safe environment.

I have no regrets with the hotcam. As someone said, it's easy on the valvetrain and I like the torque and response of it. If I were to change anything, perhaps a tad more duration and lift, but not much. I don't feel you need a high RPM cam to enjoy the car out on the track. (however, with that high of a gear, you may need some more power).

Ageed, racing and HPDE is different. I'm still working my way up through the HPDE ranks, but while I have easy access to do a cam, thought I'd ask what you guys are using. Car won't be a dd, but not full race either. Doubt I could make a 45 year old car very aero worthy anyway. I'm just there to have fun and pretend to be fast!

Ageed, racing and HPDE is different. I'm still working my way up through the HPDE ranks, but while I have easy access to do a cam, thought I'd ask what you guys are using. Car won't be a dd, but not full race either. Doubt I could make a 45 year old car very aero worthy anyway. I'm just there to have fun and pretend to be fast!

I think you will regret NOT having a cam once the engine is installed. If you are at a point in a build where installing the cam is easy, I say do so. I think the HotCam or something a tad more aggressive will suffice considering your plans for the car. Again though, I would shoot for a profile that provides more average and torgue under the curve vs. a cam that adds 10 hp but only at 6800 RPM but causes surging and bad idle characteristics as the trade-off.

FYI, I don't have my dyno sheet in front of me, but this cam makes a nice torque curve for what it is, even with stock heads. Even down low (I often leave from a stop in 2nd).

also, is a .585 lift ok on the valvetrain?

I don't "race" (track days are not races, so they say), but at my track days I actually feel bad for the car and never go over 5800-6000RPM. The average RPM isn't as high as you might think. I stay in 3rd and 4th most of the time. Accelerating out of a turn is hard to do at WOT with this much power in a low gear (1st or 2nd). Mid range torque is my suggestion to shoot for.


You are correct, but I was suggesting a came based on the OP asking for help setting up a car for road racing. Everyone drives their cars differently when they go to an HPDE, I understand that. But I would assume that if someone is building a car specifically for road racing, they wouldn't be taking it easy with their car on the track. There is a vast difference between the run groups and in the upper run groups, it feels like an un-timed race because cars come behind you hot, and you close in on cars hard into the corners. In the upper run groups if you take it easy you'll be eaten alive by a guy in a $180,000+ Porsche GT3 who's pissed you're out there just to have some fun and taking it easy. Some HPDEs are even running full passing in the upper groups...can't wait to take part in one of those.

When I built my car for road racing, I built it balls to the wall. Killer brakes, killer tires, sweet spot power (440-470rwhp), 4-point bar, cooling, gearing, and suspension. Do I race it competitively? Not including competing in autoX events, no I don't but knowing that I can beat the snot out of it is nice. You should build the car in anticipation for the all out potential of what you want to do. If you drive the car hard, you don't want any issues to occur because you decided to run a more aggressive rocker arm or steep cam with a high lift.

also, is a .585 lift ok on the valvetrain?

The general rule of thumb is to keep lift bellow .600 on an LS1/2/6 engine. I say that .575-.585 are the highest I would run at the track comfortably, but it also has to do with ramp rate. A more aggressive ramp rate on the cam can actually be more punishing than a higher lift with a less aggressive profile. I would also avoid using a 1.8 rocker.

Make no mistakes guys, I'm building the 67 with all the best stuff I can buy or make. When I'm on track I don't take it easy on the WS6 at all! You see the looks I get when I put the ram air hood in someone's z06 mirror lap after lap until they let me pass. The reason. For my question is there are many times I wish I had more torque out of a corner and the two engines are the same now in the two cars, it would be easy to do a cam swap at this point and you guys have told me exactly what I wanted to know.

You can play with the cam timing a bit too. Advance will give you a bit more low end at the expense of top end, and vice versa. Though tedious (and most avoid it), it's one way to fine tune to a particular track configuration.

Andy1

I do have some videos I'll try and get up soon.

:cheers:

:cheers:

Nothing I have is good for posting because I'll need to edit it. I'll get some footage on my phone and see how it turns out and post it up.

There is nothing more than I love doing and that is getting in some track time.
Nothing really special about the car or driver.
Car
Gm hot cam
unported 02 LS6 heads
LS6 inatake manifold
Longtube headers
owner tuned with efi live
Movit brakes
RA1 tires
LGM Coilover system
I shift the car at 5500 rpms.
Car has gone a top speed of 191mph on the autobahn.
Hot cam is no slouch and it also has 50,000 engine maintenance free miles on it.
Current mileage is 80,000.
This is jus one of many vids I have with the setup described.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZyVW8o-20g&list=UUn_oxoGVhxNG1Vv3L6vVK3A&index=10&feature=plcp

Awesume Video! You've got some really good brakes, thats for sure! What was that silver exotic? Couldn't tell from the video, was it an R8 or something even more exotic? That track looks really fun too. I'm going to try and get some video from VIR in March when I take the the WS6.

That little silver bullet is a Opel Speedster.

Does anybody have any thoughts on the f11-13 cams from futral motorsorts for road racing?

The F11-13 cams would be fine for road racing but if you want a more precise cam for your setup just use the link below and fill out the information. Make sure you add that you want a cam for a road racing application and maybe Allan can come up with something better for your specific needs. The cost of a custom cam vs. an F11-F13 is the same.

http://www.futralmotorsports.com/customcamworksheet.asp

The worksheet is best viewed with Internet Explorer

There is nothing more than I love doing and that is getting in some track time.
Nothing really special about the car or driver.
Car
Gm hot cam
unported 02 LS6 heads
LS6 inatake manifold
Longtube headers
owner tuned with efi live
Movit brakes
RA1 tires
LGM Coilover system
I shift the car at 5500 rpms.
Car has gone a top speed of 191mph on the autobahn.
Hot cam is no slouch and it also has 50,000 engine maintenance free miles on it.
Current mileage is 80,000.
This is jus one of many vids I have with the setup described.


Roy that is so different than USA HPDE. It appears there is no "point by" for passing and you can pass anywhere. It almost seems like wheel to wheel racing. Very cool. In the states, there would be carnage with that style of HPDE. Great work BTW.

Roy that is so different than USA HPDE. It appears there is no "point by" for passing and you can pass anywhere. It almost seems like wheel to wheel racing. Very cool. In the states, there would be carnage with that style of HPDE. Great work BTW.

Agreed! Way to many different skill levels there on the track at the same time. However, I wish we could pass without a point by, I've followed people around in thier mirror lap after lap and they would'nt point me by because of the stigma of getting passed by an F-body. I end up going in the pits to get some spacing and run with different cars when that happens. I'll be happy when I can finally move up to the open passing HPDE's, Time and Money...

The general rule of thumb is to keep lift bellow .600 on an LS1/2/6 engine. I say that .575-.585 are the highest I would run at the track comfortably, but it also has to do with ramp rate. A more aggressive ramp rate on the cam can actually be more punishing than a higher lift with a less aggressive profile. I would also avoid using a 1.8 rocker.

I have been reading this with great interest as I am looking for a cam for my LS1 with LS6 heads and admission, and a 3.90 rear.

I am looking for a good reliability, and torque to get out of corners. I am not racing but like quiet competitive track days here in France, together with Porsches. :D

As my tuner is used to working with Vengeance products I was thinking about the VRX3 : 226/228 .585/.588 114 LSA.

What is your opinion about that choice?

thanks