Street Tune vs Dyno?? Pros/Cons
03-01-2012, 07:43 AM
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Street Tune vs Dyno?? Pros/Cons I want to get my car tuned. What are the pros/cons for s street tune vs a dyno tune? My concern is overall driveability, not peak performance.
Both are readily available here in Tampa.
Thanks!
Jon
Both are readily available here in Tampa.
Thanks!
Jon
03-01-2012, 09:24 AM
#2
First off, what kind of dyno, loaded or non. Dyno tune with wide band gets your A/F dialed in, you know where your peak HP / TQ is so your shift points can be adjusted for that area.
Street Tune, Again depends on what Dyno, on the street you will get the actual load of the car, this could change timing a bit and it you have some type of cold / ram air, fueling could be a little off. Drive ability, light to light and cruising on the highway. can be worked if needed.
Just a couple of things that are a little different. Every car can get benefits from a tune, even stock, but for basically bolt on cars, even some mild cam setups, depending on who the tuner is, a street tune can be just fine, but it would be better if you had a wideband...
Street Tune, Again depends on what Dyno, on the street you will get the actual load of the car, this could change timing a bit and it you have some type of cold / ram air, fueling could be a little off. Drive ability, light to light and cruising on the highway. can be worked if needed.
Just a couple of things that are a little different. Every car can get benefits from a tune, even stock, but for basically bolt on cars, even some mild cam setups, depending on who the tuner is, a street tune can be just fine, but it would be better if you had a wideband...
03-01-2012, 09:37 AM
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First off, what kind of dyno, loaded or non. Dyno tune with wide band gets your A/F dialed in, you know where your peak HP / TQ is so your shift points can be adjusted for that area.
Street Tune, Again depends on what Dyno, on the street you will get the actual load of the car, this could change timing a bit and it you have some type of cold / ram air, fueling could be a little off. Drive ability, light to light and cruising on the highway. can be worked if needed.
Just a couple of things that are a little different. Every car can get benefits from a tune, even stock, but for basically bolt on cars, even some mild cam setups, depending on who the tuner is, a street tune can be just fine, but it would be better if you had a wideband...
Street Tune, Again depends on what Dyno, on the street you will get the actual load of the car, this could change timing a bit and it you have some type of cold / ram air, fueling could be a little off. Drive ability, light to light and cruising on the highway. can be worked if needed.
Just a couple of things that are a little different. Every car can get benefits from a tune, even stock, but for basically bolt on cars, even some mild cam setups, depending on who the tuner is, a street tune can be just fine, but it would be better if you had a wideband...
Jon
03-01-2012, 09:46 AM
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the first question that should be asked, is "what mods are done to your car?".
wideband is needed for proper AFR tuning, which is done in open loop, so you can put the wideband in place of one of the O2's since they're only used for closed loop fueling.
Street tuning works, but takes more time since the data you collect is more randomly acquried. Dyno's allow for steady-state tuning, i.e. a more scientific approach and controlled environment
wideband is needed for proper AFR tuning, which is done in open loop, so you can put the wideband in place of one of the O2's since they're only used for closed loop fueling.
Street tuning works, but takes more time since the data you collect is more randomly acquried. Dyno's allow for steady-state tuning, i.e. a more scientific approach and controlled environment
03-01-2012, 10:55 AM
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the first question that should be asked, is "what mods are done to your car?".
wideband is needed for proper AFR tuning, which is done in open loop, so you can put the wideband in place of one of the O2's since they're only used for closed loop fueling.
Street tuning works, but takes more time since the data you collect is more randomly acquried. Dyno's allow for steady-state tuning, i.e. a more scientific approach and controlled environment
wideband is needed for proper AFR tuning, which is done in open loop, so you can put the wideband in place of one of the O2's since they're only used for closed loop fueling.
Street tuning works, but takes more time since the data you collect is more randomly acquried. Dyno's allow for steady-state tuning, i.e. a more scientific approach and controlled environment
Jon
03-01-2012, 10:56 AM
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On the dyno (load bearing type):
- you can hold a steady state load on each cell of the VE/MAF tables;
- you can hit quite a few cells
- you get sufficient cell hit counts;
- you can view each cell as it is being hit;
- more expensive (tune plus dyno time);
On the street:
- you can't hold a steady load in each cell;
- you miss quite a few cells;
- the WOT cells hit only have a few counts;
- the PT cells in the normal operating range have large hit counts (this is good);
- filtering out transient conditions leaves you with even fewer cell hit counts;
- you can't view the laptop while driving;
- difficult/dangerous to perform due to traffic;
- cheaper;
that being said, a good tuner will tune PT and WOT and idle, and will test drive on the street to make sure drivability is good.
- you can hold a steady state load on each cell of the VE/MAF tables;
- you can hit quite a few cells
- you get sufficient cell hit counts;
- you can view each cell as it is being hit;
- more expensive (tune plus dyno time);
On the street:
- you can't hold a steady load in each cell;
- you miss quite a few cells;
- the WOT cells hit only have a few counts;
- the PT cells in the normal operating range have large hit counts (this is good);
- filtering out transient conditions leaves you with even fewer cell hit counts;
- you can't view the laptop while driving;
- difficult/dangerous to perform due to traffic;
- cheaper;
that being said, a good tuner will tune PT and WOT and idle, and will test drive on the street to make sure drivability is good.
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03-01-2012, 11:37 AM
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The dyno could hold the RPM steady, or could let it run up quick (more
pulls per hour means more money for shop owner), and neither is all that
close (necessarily) to a full pedal on-pavement acceleration. The MAF
is slow and rate of RPM change matters some, to accuracy. You can see
this in how delivered AFR changes between 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th gear on a
track pass.
Now you don't get to choose which one you get - you get to live with
them all but one being slightly off, in real life. If you're trying to get the
best ET/MPH, there's a best compromise somewhere. Whether the dyno
emulates that, is a question.
Similarly a street tune would want a nice clear 1/2 mile stretch of road
with no cops, to let you find that range. And by the time you do, the
neighbors may have made a phone call.
A street tune for this purpose needs not only the A/F instrumentation,
but some quantitative performance feedback. Like an accelerometer, or
maybe just use rolled up VSS counts (excluding wheelspin somehow,
etc.).
I like to tune mine in normal mixed driving and on the Interstate, but
I also have spent way more time at it than I would be willing to pay
shop rates for.
pulls per hour means more money for shop owner), and neither is all that
close (necessarily) to a full pedal on-pavement acceleration. The MAF
is slow and rate of RPM change matters some, to accuracy. You can see
this in how delivered AFR changes between 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th gear on a
track pass.
Now you don't get to choose which one you get - you get to live with
them all but one being slightly off, in real life. If you're trying to get the
best ET/MPH, there's a best compromise somewhere. Whether the dyno
emulates that, is a question.
Similarly a street tune would want a nice clear 1/2 mile stretch of road
with no cops, to let you find that range. And by the time you do, the
neighbors may have made a phone call.
A street tune for this purpose needs not only the A/F instrumentation,
but some quantitative performance feedback. Like an accelerometer, or
maybe just use rolled up VSS counts (excluding wheelspin somehow,
etc.).
I like to tune mine in normal mixed driving and on the Interstate, but
I also have spent way more time at it than I would be willing to pay
shop rates for.
03-01-2012, 11:56 AM
#9
with those mods a mail in/street tune will be fine imo , yes a dyno would be better but i would put the extra money you will save towards a cam /heads /etc,i will say though that with my ms4 car there was alot more street tuning envolved after the dyno
Last edited by BOBS99SS; 03-01-2012 at 12:00 PM. Reason: errror
03-01-2012, 12:04 PM
#10
I think both is a good way to go, just for the safety factor. I spend most of my time on the street getting part throttle drive ability nailed down. Once you get this sorted out then its time for the dyno, and this does not take nearly as long. If you did a good job on the street it will only take a couple of pulls on the dyno to dial it in.
Going down the street pulling to 130mph multiple times can be a very bad idea.
Going down the street pulling to 130mph multiple times can be a very bad idea.
03-01-2012, 12:45 PM
#11
A good tune is both done.
We have a load dyno and if you do a load tune it does still change on the street with the added airflow ect. We street tune all driving conditions and use the dyno for WOT/high speed runs. So, only race cars or high hp one's get fully tuned on the dyno for part throttle situations.
For a car like your's it can be easilly be 100% street tuned. I just avoid it due to the risk of totaling a car.
We have a load dyno and if you do a load tune it does still change on the street with the added airflow ect. We street tune all driving conditions and use the dyno for WOT/high speed runs. So, only race cars or high hp one's get fully tuned on the dyno for part throttle situations.
For a car like your's it can be easilly be 100% street tuned. I just avoid it due to the risk of totaling a car.
03-01-2012, 02:22 PM
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I ask this a montha ago...heres a few more answers
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...mail-tune.html
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...mail-tune.html
03-01-2012, 05:18 PM
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I would say a dyno is the only real way to dial in timing for a motor.
How do tell when your timing is at MBT when street tuning with just a wideband? Especially at part throttle etc.
Cheers
How do tell when your timing is at MBT when street tuning with just a wideband? Especially at part throttle etc.
Cheers
03-02-2012, 07:49 AM
#15
But again, if you are doing the tuning yourself, and know how to read plugs,ect some can tune at the track just by doing that...
03-02-2012, 11:23 AM
#17
Either one, you have to use a wideband. You can set up your HP Tuners to capture data with least hits.
1) What I like about street tuning, I capture AFR data in multiple gears. It allows me to view how the AFR is thinning out about its breathing more air.
2) I can do steady state driving in mulitple gears.
3) With automatics, I first upload the tranny configuration, so the owner/drive can get a couple hours of driving for comfort on the new tranny settings.
4) saves the owner money
5) I can get the same data as dyno tuning
Dyno tuning
1) big packages should be dyno and street tuned
2) saves me ALOT of time
3) no traffic issues and is safer.
4) you get a piece of paper after the tune saying how much HP you have.
1) What I like about street tuning, I capture AFR data in multiple gears. It allows me to view how the AFR is thinning out about its breathing more air.
2) I can do steady state driving in mulitple gears.
3) With automatics, I first upload the tranny configuration, so the owner/drive can get a couple hours of driving for comfort on the new tranny settings.
4) saves the owner money
5) I can get the same data as dyno tuning
Dyno tuning
1) big packages should be dyno and street tuned
2) saves me ALOT of time
3) no traffic issues and is safer.
4) you get a piece of paper after the tune saying how much HP you have.
This is not available year round, but all the part throttle and transient conditions on the street are great! The 1/4 mile is awesome for nailing it down afterwards. MPH is a very good measure of how your changes worked!
03-03-2012, 01:30 PM
#20
Staging Lane
There are definitely advantages to a dyno tune. The big disadvantage is that it's going to cost you more (a LOT more) and you will most likely be turning over your car to someone who is half interested in making this a good tune, half interested in making this a good profit.
On the street, you can get good low Mass Air Flow readings, whether at low rpm (higher gear) or high rpm (lower gear). But to get larger MAF readings, you've got to be into the throttle, and on a high-horsepower car, you can only do that intermittantly and/or illegally; so the high-MAF data we collect on the street is limited. The more data you collect at each cell, the more likely it will be to be accurate.
On the plus side for a street tune, it's inexpensive, you might be able to find an area where you won't be hassled by the locals or the law, and you can keep working on it until you get it where you want it. I spend months sometimes working on a car or a motorcycle, fine tuning it and refining it, and when I'm done, I understand it a lot better, and it's just the way I like it.
Of course, we all know that the best of both worlds would be to just buy a Dyno and install it in your garage. (and when you do that let me know, so I can stop over and take it for a test ride...)
On the street, you can get good low Mass Air Flow readings, whether at low rpm (higher gear) or high rpm (lower gear). But to get larger MAF readings, you've got to be into the throttle, and on a high-horsepower car, you can only do that intermittantly and/or illegally; so the high-MAF data we collect on the street is limited. The more data you collect at each cell, the more likely it will be to be accurate.
On the plus side for a street tune, it's inexpensive, you might be able to find an area where you won't be hassled by the locals or the law, and you can keep working on it until you get it where you want it. I spend months sometimes working on a car or a motorcycle, fine tuning it and refining it, and when I'm done, I understand it a lot better, and it's just the way I like it.
Of course, we all know that the best of both worlds would be to just buy a Dyno and install it in your garage. (and when you do that let me know, so I can stop over and take it for a test ride...)