Dynamometer Results & Comparisons - New Cam-only LS3 dyno results:: 517whp/462wtq 24* timing

I don't post on LS1tech very much. I'm normally on the corvette forums, but I wanted to share this information.
My name is Justinjor on the Corvette forums.

After going back and forth on the possibility of adding another bolt-on to the car to break the 500whp mark, I finally pulled the trigger and boy, did it pay off.

With the only addition being a Bare Essentials Racing Ported LS3 intake manifold and a retune, the car picked up 24whp and 18wtq.

Previous best was 493whp and 444wtq after the cam was installed last November.

As you can see in the dyno overlays the fueling was nearly identical in the 2 passes and the entire dyno graph was essentially shifted upwards.

No dyno tricks, no gimmicks

Mod list
Halltech SBMF103
OBX 1 7/8" headers with catless 2.5" x-pipe to stock NPP mufflers
EPS 230/238 .600/.615
BER Ported LS3 intake manifold
CNC Ported throttle body
25% UDP
TR6 plugs

Here is the background story that I feel is most important to share.

I have purchased from Cajun@BER in the past and have always received top notch customer service. Anyone who knows him, also knows he provides a 100% satisfaction guarantee on any parts he sells. Being the pessimistic type, I was hesitant to buy a ported intake manifold against the recommendation of a few very reputable people. "It wont make power, you're good where you are" are a few of the responses I received.

Well, being the stubborn ass that I am, I couldn't leave well enough alone and I wanted so badly to make over 500whp cam-only so the order was placed with Cajun while the manifold was on sale about 2 weeks ago.

The manifold showed up in the middle of the week and I had it installed the same night and I hit the dyno 2 days following.

After a few pulls on the dyno, the car made 499whp and 433wtq, a gain of 6whp, but a LOSS of 11wtq.
Needless to say, I left the dyno very disappointed and I placed an email with Cajun the next morning. My first inclination was to remove the manifold and get ready to ship it back for a refund. At that point, I had spent $30 for dyno time and would have spent another $15 for shipping, but I would have at least tried it out to see how it performed.

This is where things start to get REALLY interesting.

Cajun promptly(as always) emailed me back, very concerned with the news of the cars lack of performance and unbeknownst to me, had forwarded the results onto the BER tuner, Brett.

Within a few hours, I had an email from Brett asking if I could make some adjustments to the tune in order to really get the manifold dialed in. I didn't realize how ignorant I was in the fact that the car needed a touch-up tune to really see results. I just thought I could bolt it on and see more power. Boy was I wrong.
Over the course of a week, Brett and I exchanged literally over a hundred emails about the tune, how to fix it, what it needed, what I could do to make adjustments--he basically taught me a beginners, and then advanced tuning course over the entire week, all without the hint of frustration and without ever seeing the tune. WHO DOES THAT?? He also went out of his way to give me his personal cell phone number so we could exchange texts and voice calls, to further dial in the car and get the fueling/timing right where it needed to be. I would go do some 3rd gear street pulls late at night, log the results, type them out and email them, and he would ask me to make adjustments. Brett uses EFI Live and I had HPTuners so he had to rely on my screenshots and verbal or written interpretation of the log results to make adjustments. He never had my tune in front of him and never had my logs, and he was still able to nail down the tune and intelligently communicate it to me so I could adjust the tune myself. Brett is a rockstar and I can't thank him enough :cool:

Never in my life have I had someone take so much of their own free time to help me out and be so passionate about something, expecting absolutely nothing in return. I salute you sir :salute:

Armed with my new tuning knowledge, and with the assistance of a local friend and LS guru, Chris Weber, I went to the dyno this morning to get the car dialed in. The results speak for themselves.

I could not have done this without the assistance of a great local friend, and the watchful guidance of Brett. I have the tune and the logs from the passes and the timing was 24* at peak, and a solid 12.4-12.6 air fuel.


Brett, Cajun, you guys are world-class and your attitude and customer service speaks VOLUMES for your character. I applaud you both, and only wish I lived closer so I could take you out for a beer or 3. :cheers:

I can't thank you enough for all the extra time and hours that were put into this seemingly minor modification. The fact that you went so far above and beyond to help me, leaves me speechless. Thank you so much gentlemen :woohoo:


Now, I only wish I had 1 more day of winter to take this thing to the track and have a timeslip to backup the dyno results. My current best pre-manifold and BER tune is still 10.7@128 and is currently the fastest cam-only LS3 on the Corvette Forum.

Thank you again :D

Manifold untuned vs cam-only tune in November
http://img607.imageshack.us/img607/6528/untunedintakemanifoldco.jpg

Cam-only vs intake manifold tuned
http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/3731/bestdynographwithintake.jpg

All 3 runs overlayed
http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/9931/all3runscompare.jpg

No problem Justin. It was great dealing with you and I am just glad that it all worked out in the end. Every second on the phone and typing were worth it. You deserve a lot of credit yourself. You took all you could from me and made it happen. Most poeple would not have taken the time to actually figure out the issue and just bashed the product. So cudo's to you and I hope you are happy with the results. Now take that top spot on the drag list and all goals will have been met. Let me know if you need anything else.

Great results Congrats man...
Mid range HP & TQ are nasty :D

any vids?

My wife took some videos of the pulls but it doesn't show all that much. I'd be happy to pull them off the GoPro and post them though.

Very nice results!!

congrats on the great numbers..... :jest:

Very impressive!

Great results Justin. Thank you for including me in the cam selection process. :)

You the man Pat. I am glad he has one of your cams in his car. Hopefully you can spec me another one some day and we can set some records again.

Great numbers out of the LS3

This is really impressive.

Have you checked injector duty cycles at all?

Were there any climate/weather differences in the days you had your dyno performed?

What's the LSA on the cam...?!

Wow, those are some awesome numbers.

Oops, I didn't have notifications set for this thread.


Pat, thanks for the great cam choice. I know they're boat motor lobes but damnit, they work very well.

LSA on the cam is a 113+2.

Thanks everyone for the comments.
The car went a new personal best of 10.67@129.2 on a 1.48 60ft last weekend at PBIR. The weather wasn't the best though with 78*, 50% humidity and a 30 barometer.
DA was +1000 for my pass.

what heads on your ls3 if i my as

Stock LS3 heads as they came from the factory. Heads have never been off the car

nice results! I love those LS3's

Boy this LS stuff is unreal and so is your car and also Mr. Patrick G the man!!!!!!!

Thank you. It likely will show closer to 530whp now. I swapped out the behemoth stock clutch for a lightweight Mantic twin disk. I love my LS3

WOW, Just awesome results and its great to hear of good dealings with Vendors/Tuners from here as well!

The cam is impressive to have over 490rwhp

I have a PatG cam in my Z06. Brett built the Z unbelievably well along with a great tune.
Going for 9's NA this fall

Congrats on the numbers. Those are some cRazy huge gains from a ported ls3 intake.

Enjoy it

Thank you everyone. Nitrous goes on tomorrow :)

Congrat's on the truly unbelievable results...WOW!

Could you elaborate more on the tuning required with the installation of the ported intake......it would be great if you could share exactly what you did, however, if this is proprietary information and you are unable to share specific's could you at least explain what was required to dial it in correctly?

Tuning WOT is easy--because the ported manifold was more efficient, I didn't need as much timing to pick up the power. I dialed back the timing and gave it a bunch of fuel, then leaned it out to a .87 lambda and left the timing alone. It actually made over 520 with another 2 degrees of timing but considering the law of diminishing returns, I dialed it back the 2* and made back to back pulls at 517whp

Wow!!! Great results!!

I guess I'll be the Buzz Killington of the day but 517rwhp out of a relatively small cam like that in an otherwise fairly stock LS3 engine is pretty steep. Real steep actually. I've done tons of LS3's and it takes mid 230's intake/low 240's exhaust just to get into the 480's.

Not that the OP has anything to prove to me but I'd be curious to see what it does on another dyno elsewhere. There's gonna be 50 guys who see this and buy this cam. Then they're gonna be PISSED when their car only makes 450-460. :)

I guess I'll be the Buzz Killington of the day but 517rwhp out of a relatively small cam like that in an otherwise fairly stock LS3 engine is pretty steep. Real steep actually. I've done tons of LS3's and it takes mid 230's intake/low 240's exhaust just to get into the 480's.

Not that the OP has anything to prove to me but I'd be curious to see what it does on another dyno elsewhere. There's gonna be 50 guys who see this and buy this cam. Then they're gonna be PISSED when their car only makes 450-460. :)

There are lots of results in the high 480-490s on cams with very little overlap. It has been proven time and time again that the LS3 head does not need a huge split to make the power and a relatively tame cam can make great power and back it up with a good timeslip.

It's obviously hard to compare apples to apples, but let's just say I've raced a LOT of people with substantially more power than my car puts down and the result is always the same--I'm ahead.

Even still, the dyno is just a tool and it's easy to post inflated results. I'm not, nor have I ever been, that guy.

It has been proven time and time again that the LS3 head does not need a huge split to make the power and a relatively tame cam can make great power back it up with a good timeslip.


Your split is 8 degrees which is about the sweet spot. I usually use an 8-12 degree split depending on the application.

Even still, the dyno is just a tool and it's easy to post inflated results. I'm not, nor have I ever been, that guy.

I'm in agreement, and nor was I implying you were "that" guy.

Those results are killer, just never seen it happen on this side of town. It takes a HEALTHY heads/cam setup for an LS3 to make that in Georgia. Never mind a stock headed one with a relatively small cam that is only rocking 8-10 degrees of overlap (you never did post LSA so I wasn't sure).

Well if you're ever down in the Tampa area, let me know and we can line em up ;)

Any track results?

Current best is posted in my sig. That was on stock clutch and stock rear. I have since added a twin disk clutch and 3.90 rear end. It's 90* and 80% humidity here in Florida so I doubt I'll improve on that time till winter rolls back around.

I dialed back the timing and gave it a bunch of fuel, then leaned it out to a .87 lambda and left the timing alone.Sorry to play dumb but I'm looking at your A/F curves and between the 517HP run vs the 499HP run at peak power the A/F appears to be within 0.15 A/F and down below this they almost overlay each other until you get into the low 4K RPM's.......if the timing didn't change significantly and the A/F didn't change significantly, what did between the 499HP run and the 517HP run? Not doubting the results, just trying to get educated, thanks!

The intake manifold was the only change aside from retuning on the dyno. As you can see--there's not a lot of difference in fueling for where the car made max power and we actually pulled back some timing. It was at 26.5* peak timing before (494whp tune) but now its at 24*. The car actually had a few pulls in the 525whp range with more timing, but given the law of diminishing returns, I wanted it to stay nice and safe so I locked it in at 24* and 517whp was the number.

Who is Brett?

Bret=PRAY. He's the tuner for Bare Essentials Racing who helped me get the intake manifold all dialed in.

I dialed back the timing and gave it a bunch of fuel, then leaned it out to a .87 lambda and left the timing alone.Where did you give it "a bunch" more fuel? It appears that below 6K you took away fuel (leaned it out) to pick up power and above 6K it looks like you were running almost barely lean and had knock retard issues where you likely pulled more timing and just barely added any fuel to bump the A/F by 0.15. This is why I am confused by your statement of "gave it bunch of fuel"......I just don't see where based on your A/F results.

As you can see--there's not a lot of difference in fueling for where the car made max power and we actually pulled back some timing. It was at 26.5* peak timing before (494whp tune) but now its at 24*. I agree based on my statement above...based on your unexplainable dip in power at 6075RPM this looks like knock retard kicking in to me based on detonation so really all you did to pick up power and torque was to retard timing to eliminate the knock retard and lean the fuel down low to pick up the torque!

A "bunch" more fuel was given after the first pull was made with the new manifold. The dyno I posted was the final result pre-manifold and post-manifold. What you can't see is the initial dyno where the fueling was all over the place(as rich as 10.8)--likely from the computer over compensating with the added air flow. ADDING fuel and recalibrating the maf actually helped lean it out and get the fueling straight as the computer was no longer flying blind.

Contrary to what you're saying, the car never saw KR, even when the timing was pushed to the higher 20s. I scanned all of the dyno pulls with HPT and there was never any KR.

A "bunch" more fuel was given after the first pull was made with the new manifold. The dyno I posted was the final result pre-manifold and post-manifold. What you can't see is the initial dyno where the fueling was all over the place(as rich as 10.8)--likely from the computer over compensating with the added air flow. Ah, got it, makes good sense!

ADDING fuel and recalibrating the maf actually helped lean it out and get the fueling straight as the computer was no longer flying blind.Interesting...could you elaborate more an exactly what you did here with the MAF (what %) and at what freq?

Contrary to what you're saying, the car never saw KR, even when the timing was pushed to the higher 20s. I scanned all of the dyno pulls with HPT and there was never any KR.Wow, this is unusual.....seems odd that you would see such a power drop at that RPM when the rest of the runs have such a smooth curve up top. Good for you!

I have the scans at home. Let me screen shot them and post the pictures. This thread is a little aged so I'm not 100% what all I did to calibrate the maf. I follow Greg Banish's dvds and essentially do what he instructs as far as maf calibration on the dyno etc.

Also, can you elaborate more on the power loss you're referring to? I see at 6000-6200 the power levels out, then picks back up, but I don't see a loss in power anywhere. I'm sure the car could use a little more cleaning up but given the $$/hour rate at the dyno and the point of diminishing returns, I was happy with the results and didn't feel the need to fine tune it further(at that time at least)

Can I have your stock and HP tuned file Burrhos?

I myself would love to learn a few tricks; the differences between the good and bad tunes.

respectable number & 1/4 mile result

Congratulation

Can I have your stock and HP tuned file Burrhos?

I myself would love to learn a few tricks; the differences between the good and bad tunes.

I can't give up my files but I'd be happy to answer any questions you have. I'm not professional tuner by any means, I just have a basic understanding of everything.

respectable number & 1/4 mile result

Congratulation

Thank you

The reason "I" was going to compare the files is because of what you said. "I just have a basic understanding of everything"

Therefore I'd rather compare for myself. Besides, I could ask you questions til your ears bleed and we still could not simplify this because neither me or you is Brett.

This BER ported intake vs Rick Crawford?