View Full Version : LQ9, torquer V2,Hookers 1 7/8. FAST 92/102. UPDATED with TFS 215 Heads


raysadude
03-14-2012, 09:51 PM
A little back ground:

here's the graph on the mustang dyno the first time Glen tuned my car, comparing the unknown tune VS Glen's tune, car still has PRC 2.5 LS6 heads, LS6 intake, stock MAF with ported end,lid,no cutout

http://i398.photobucket.com/albums/pp68/renaldi1982/Dyno_APS_MustangDyno.jpg

Final number is: 399/378
Added Fast, Final number: 413/365 with cutout open, graph is on the next sheet

Here's the last number after TFS 215 installed and re-tune. This is swapping PRC 2.5 LS6 heads to TFS 215, all other variables stay the same

Updated Dyno Run 10/10/2012
http://i398.photobucket.com/albums/pp68/renaldi1982/Dyno_APS_10102012.jpg

so: 24 rwhp and 38rwtq gained from swapping PRC LS6 to TFS 215.

i'm really stoked, not because of the peak gain but more because of the overall bump throughout the power band. now i can literally race stock G35s on half throttle....tried that earlier today, but that's another story

i'm done with the quest for power for now. rear end is going to be next on my list.

here's the vid of the dyno run, there's some coolant spurting from the back of the engine bay on the last run, doesn't happen when the car on idle after that...really weird. you can see it on the video, i'm thinking it may be coming from the coolant block off at the back of the driver's side head. but i won't know until i take off the intake manifold to find out.

http://youtu.be/qwX3KcsVCos

the car has:

TFS 215 milled to 61cc
232/234 .595/.598 112
FTP 98mm lid - 85mm MAF- FAST 92/102 intake manifold
LQ9 Block
Hooker 1 7/8 LT, DMH E-cutout, Borla exhaust

Ray

techls1
03-15-2012, 08:22 AM
What heads are on the motor?

raysadude
03-15-2012, 08:57 AM
Ported 243 heads from TSP.

raysadude
03-15-2012, 08:58 AM
I want to get more torque out of the car :(

techls1
03-15-2012, 10:41 AM
Are those the 2.5 LS-6 Heads? I have a 346 with the 2.5 5.3 heads with a V3 and made 405 TQ.

raysadude
03-15-2012, 11:53 AM
Yes it's the 2.5 ls6 heads, what's the V3 specs? I'm thinking its my LT that killing the torque, it used to make 408 torque

Rise of the Phoenix
03-15-2012, 12:35 PM
Yes it's the 2.5 ls6 heads, what's the V3 specs? I'm thinking its my LT that killing the torque, it used to have 408 torque

V3 specs are 231/234 111 LSA. From what Texas Speed has said in posts on here, the V3 is going to be better in regards to under the curve TQ numbers and will carry out farther, netting more HP. Only downside is the high lift the V3 has.

raysadude
03-15-2012, 02:00 PM
Pardon my noob question but I'm new to this whole cam thing, why would the highlift be the downside? Harder on springs?

BrntWS6
03-15-2012, 03:14 PM
^ Yup.

93LS1Ws6
03-15-2012, 03:20 PM
The high lift is harder on the springs. Not by much though. Lobe style has a lot to do with it as well. My cam has a little higher lift than the Torquer v3. But it nets me a bit more torque. I personally like having high lift on my bigger cams. Makes for a more fun street car. And by hardly putting miles on my car im not too worried about it. The vendor i use for most of my stuff told me to check my Patriot 650 springs every 12.5k miles.

raysadude
03-15-2012, 06:18 PM
Is there anyway to get around it say by buying stronger spring? I'm really interested in swapping to v3, I'm still thinking my setup should net more torque being its a 6 liter, but it is what it is.

93LS1Ws6
03-15-2012, 06:43 PM
Honestly, you should check your valvesprings no matter what your running at some point. Alot of people are going 70k miles plus on 650 lift springs and a 650 lift cam. My cam is slightly over 650 lift. and after talking to a few vendors on here the advice was to stay with the 650 lift springs. I love TSP Cams but there are Custom grinds that can net you good torque curve as well. but a lot of people love the TQRv3

raysadude
03-15-2012, 08:05 PM
Yeah I might do that, my next plan originally was nitrous or fast intake, but maybe I'd be better off with getting another set of springs and cam and squeeze more out of this setup, I still have ls6 intake and stock ported tb fwiw.

01ssreda4
03-16-2012, 05:58 AM
Is this A4 or M6?

raysadude
03-16-2012, 06:46 AM
M6 sir.

JP
03-22-2012, 06:28 AM
dang man, if you are going change everything on the car,you could have bought a stock one and done what you wanted to it.

thunderstruck507
03-22-2012, 09:32 AM
Is there anyway to get around it say by buying stronger spring? I'm really interested in swapping to v3, I'm still thinking my setup should net more torque being its a 6 liter, but it is what it is.

Swapping from the v2 to a v3 is not likely to get you enough gain to justify the expense and work.

I would focus on other things.

kinglt-1
03-22-2012, 10:37 AM
Swapping from the v2 to a v3 is not likely to get you enough gain to justify the expense and work.

I would focus on other things.

best advice posted in this thread!

raysadude
03-24-2012, 06:23 PM
JP:all I did was just exhaust because they're rusty and one of the cats actually leaking and replaced the ls7 clutch, swap the tb that was in the car with my S2 ported TB and now the fast coming in. I love this cam selection too just want to squeeze more torque out of this setup

Thunderstruck: I agree, fast 102 coming in to the car tomorrow.

raysadude
03-24-2012, 06:26 PM
And if I bought a stock car I wouldn't get the suspension mods and a 6 liter block.

raysadude
03-26-2012, 03:55 PM
the FAST 102/102 is in, i'll post the dyno graph when i have her dyno'd on wednesday.

the same dyno jet, weather's going to be about the same maybe 2 or 3* different but this will be to compare my FAST 102/102 setup compared to my LS6 intake and stock ported TB.

teaser:
http://i398.photobucket.com/albums/pp68/renaldi1982/IMG-20120326-00244.jpg

raysadude
03-28-2012, 03:49 PM
Re dyno the car, and she made 438/405 with cutout open, before it was 429/401

so there 9 rwhp/ 4rwtq to my ls6 intake and stock ported TB.

pretty disappointed for the amount of money that i spent :( will have Glen to re-tune her and we'll see if she's going to make more power.

the temperature today is around 78 not that it matters much.

BrntWS6
03-29-2012, 06:06 PM
I have the same heads and V3, went from 423hp to 442hp going from LS6 intake to FAST 92/92....also added Kooks TD's. I lost a few hp below 4400rpms. Mine was also on a Mustang dyno.

If I could do it again I would go high 230's low 240's cam for sure. Probably pick up another 15-20 hp. I just didn't know enough about cams a year ago. I'm not doing another cam swap for a looong time though.

raysadude
03-29-2012, 11:19 PM
For what its worth I love this cam. I thought about trex or ms4 but i don't want to lose any more gas mileage since its my DD, I got around 14-15mpg city, and 25+ hwy, I figure if I changed to ms3/4 I'd be around 11-13 city.
I'll have the car re tune next week on wednesday, we'll see what she makes I really want to crack 450 with this setup, I probably go SD tune with ftp 104 lid to get rid of the bottleneck on the MAF

venom ws7
03-30-2012, 02:44 AM
Those gains were with the same LS6 , ported TB Tune? I'm sure you can get another 10rwhp 8-10rwtq after the retune.

Were the new runs same Correction STD? Waiting for the dyno graph to see the mid range gains!!

red fury
03-30-2012, 06:03 AM
what rear end and gears are under your car?

raysadude
03-30-2012, 06:49 AM
Car has stock 10 bolts with 3.73

Yea those gains were from swapping ls6 intake manifold and stock ported TB to fast 102 and NW 102, I really hope I could gain more with a tune.

Don't get me wrong I LOVE the throttle response and the car feels more responsive now than it was ever before, I could bark the tires shifting from 3 to 4th around 6500 never happened before.
As far as the dyno, I'll ask the shop to email me the graph, this was done on the same shop, same dynojet, same correction factor and similar weather with the first pull before the fast.

BrntWS6
03-30-2012, 10:31 AM
Just ask him to free it up like a dynojet and you'll be a lot happier with the numbers. Dyno I was on will read 5-7% lower than a typical dynojet. But I did gain over 100rwhp with a budget H/C/I swap, so I'm happy with the results.

Being a DD I'd think twice about a SD tune, plus there not worth any more HP. Just get a $40 Z06 maf from e-bay if you still have the stock one. But the stocker is good up to 500hp.

raysadude
03-30-2012, 01:20 PM
Brnt i think you misunderstood that the 438/405 pull was done on dyno jet(if it was on mustang dyno i'd be one happy camper) not on mustang dyno, i'll have her dyno on mustang dyno when she gets re tune and report back.

Reason i'm thinking about going with SD is because the 85mm MAF and lid is bottle necking the whole system. i'm pretty confident with FTP 104 lid and straight bellow to my 102 TB alone i would gain at least 3-5rwhp with the spot on tune i would expect around 12-15rwhp thus reach my goal of 450rwhp.

BrntWS6
03-30-2012, 10:53 PM
Gotcha on the dynojet. I'll be curious to see your results. The 85mm MAF is really a 90mm...I just can't see it as a restriction in your setup. Most don't really need a 102mm TB until large cubes, which is why a lot of guys go 92/102. But I hope you pull some good numbers for your effort!

2000NavyZ
04-01-2012, 10:07 PM
seems pretty down on power for 6.0. my 347 with tsunami and 2.5 ls6 and fast 92/92,
ls7 clutch, steel driveshaft, and 12bolt put down 460/415... id figure your setup would be 475/440. unless the heads are really holding it back

edit: and i figured i get about 15-17city and 25 hwy

jmilz28
04-01-2012, 10:55 PM
You are correct. Once you get the bigger MAF and ram air AND spend a ton of time on the tune, you will hit your goal. The big TB will help, but it takes a TON of tuning to get it right and many can't at all. The 1 7/8 headers are NOT hurting torque, not one iota. Make sure to check the silly stuff: injectors, fuel filter, clean air filter, A/C or alternator going out and dragging, etc.

raysadude
04-02-2012, 09:40 PM
the car will have another dyno tune session this wednesday, so we'll see what she makes.
To be honest i dont really have problem at all with the 102mm TB except for the occasional weird stuffs like when the car's still cold, if i accelerate and then let off the RPM would stay at 2K for a while until i completely dead stop. This doesn't happen when the car is on running temp though, and it's really intermittent problem, i figure a good tune will fix this.

2000NavyZ: the tsunami cam probably helped you alot, i've heard people gain 20rwhp from fast 102 but most of them have bigger size cam than i do.

BrntWS6
04-03-2012, 10:08 AM
the car will have another dyno tune session this wednesday, so we'll see what she makes.
To be honest i dont really have problem at all with the 102mm TB except for the occasional weird stuffs like when the car's still cold, if i accelerate and then let off the RPM would stay at 2K for a while until i completely dead stop. This doesn't happen when the car is on running temp though, and it's really intermittent problem, i figure a good tune will fix this.

2000NavyZ: the tsunami cam probably helped you alot, i've heard people gain 20rwhp from fast 102 but most of them have bigger size cam than i do.


I had that same problem after my tune. Turned out to be a small vacuum leak because I re-routed everything for my catch can. But your right, it could definitely be in the tune.

reeperz28
04-03-2012, 07:12 PM
I just bought a 85 maf but does not look like your maf in the picture what brand is it? Looks like a stocker.

raysadude
04-04-2012, 09:06 AM
Its granatelli.

Johnnystock
04-04-2012, 02:36 PM
Is it on the same dynojet?? cause 8/4 gains are really weak, but a tune could do wonders.

Good luck!

raysadude
04-04-2012, 04:59 PM
well just got back from the dyno, Glen looked at the tune and he said the tune is good and there's nothing he can do to squeeze more power from the setup. To put it short i am REALLY disappointed with FAST 102, i lose power everywhere except after 6200RPM and LOSE torque.

here's the graph.

The blue line is with the FAST 102
The green line is with LS6 intake

http://i398.photobucket.com/albums/pp68/renaldi1982/Dyno_APS_FAST102.jpg

the number is corrected.

raysadude
04-04-2012, 05:00 PM
FTP 104 and MAYBE TSP 100mm MAF is next, but i need to discuss this with Glen see if he wants to try to tune it.

raysadude
04-04-2012, 05:06 PM
I just bought a 85 maf but does not look like your maf in the picture what brand is it? Looks like a stocker.

and you're right man, it's not 85mm it's stocker, it's granatelli but stock size. i always thought that it was 85mm.

reeperz28
04-04-2012, 06:25 PM
If its still at 78 mm maf opening then you are definitly choking the fast. What is also weird from friends experience that after there 102 install it went lean as hell. Open that intake tract and post up, def in for numbers.:corn:

raysadude
04-04-2012, 07:18 PM
that's exactly what i thought, the car should run leaner after the IM install, but no the AFR stay the same...i really don't know if it's in the combo or i did something wrong here...i have NEVER seen anyone in this board losing power anywhere across the board from changing to FAST 102

here's what me and Glen thinking: the IM has the capacity of stuffing more air into the heads, BUT with lower velocity since it's bigger. that's why when the intake got enough velocity AKA high RPM range, it really shines over the LS6 intake. Correct me if i'm wrong.

i'm open to suggestions of what i need to do next.

reeperz28
04-04-2012, 07:52 PM
I beleive your correct. There is so much more volume to fill up the new intake with air hence low rpm but takes longer due to sucking through a straw rather than tsp maf Haha. The way I think of things totally elementary but it works.

raysadude
04-04-2012, 09:31 PM
haha duh...isn't stock MAF good for 500 rwhp?

raysadude
04-04-2012, 10:36 PM
anybody else have comments on this? i'm really stumped..i'm thinking right now the only way to gain more power is with heads like AFR or TFS, i'm thinking swapping the cam, but if i do that might as well do the head. the fk up part is my wallet is $1400 thinner now :(

MM98
04-05-2012, 09:08 AM
See if anyone close by has a 92mm tb you can try.. It will help with the intake velocity at lower rpms, but still be big enough for your motor.. Take it to the track & see what she mph's.

raysadude
04-05-2012, 09:23 AM
i may take it to the thunder valley tomorrow night. i'm still on denial that fast setup is actually lose power everywhere across the board compared to ls6, especially when everyone's been saying that they gain anywhere from 3000 rpm, the graph doesn't lie and the numbers are corrected, o well..

thunderstruck507
04-05-2012, 09:47 AM
I doubt the MAF is holding you back at this point but as stated in your other thread a stock lid is not good for flow.

Some good heads or having your 243 ported by AI would be a good source for gains. 40-50rwhp gains.

A cam swap would likely be under 10rwhp.

Midnight02
04-05-2012, 10:45 AM
Sounds like something is definitely holding you back. Could be a combination of the stock heads, stock lid, etc. I think you would be amazed at what a head swap would do for your setup.

Johnnystock
04-05-2012, 12:28 PM
MAF is the bottleneck.. still, some plp saw better gain than you with stock cam/heads LS1. Sell that piece of shit LOL.

raysadude
04-05-2012, 04:09 PM
You wanna buy em if I sell em?

gectek
04-05-2012, 06:29 PM
If you can look at the WOT log, it will tell you alot. When you see the map pressure drop more than way 8 kpa from start to finish, or it tanks at one spot, then you know something is amiss. I would ask to look at that first before selling anything.

raysadude
04-05-2012, 06:51 PM
i was kidding when i said i want to sell them, i'll keep them, i know they will help if i go bigger cube, disappointed with the result.

here's the pic of the MAF that's in the car, seems to me it's the 90mm one
http://i398.photobucket.com/albums/pp68/renaldi1982/IMG-20120405-00256.jpg

http://i398.photobucket.com/albums/pp68/renaldi1982/IMG-20120405-00257.jpg

here's the pic of lid
http://i398.photobucket.com/albums/pp68/renaldi1982/IMG-20120405-00254.jpg

http://i398.photobucket.com/albums/pp68/renaldi1982/IMG-20120405-00255.jpg

and here's beneath my air filter
http://i398.photobucket.com/albums/pp68/renaldi1982/IMG-20120405-00252.jpg

http://i398.photobucket.com/albums/pp68/renaldi1982/IMG-20120405-00253.jpg

gectek
04-05-2012, 07:00 PM
Interesting. Seems that is not a bad maf. Looks like it could be the Z06 maf. Since there is no screen in it. But if you are going to the 4" then it will def flow more. Hard to say if you will need it, but they will have to do quite a bit to scale the maf table back.

More could be said if you could either look at the dyno pull logs or even be able to post them up.

2xLS1
04-05-2012, 08:43 PM
Here is the log from his last pull with the graph he posted on the Mustang Dyno. And it's a stock 75mm MAF center section with afermarket plastic MAF ends.

raysadude
04-05-2012, 08:56 PM
thank you Glen.

2xLS1
04-05-2012, 09:08 PM
Weather on 3/9/12 for best pull with LS6 intake:
Temp 58, Humidity 23%, Baro 30.40, DA 921

Weather on 4/4/12 for best pull with FAST 102 intake:
Temp 63, Humidity 54%, Baro 29.77, DA 2052

Also Mustang Dynos don't have the same type of correction factors that Dynojets have.

gectek
04-05-2012, 09:11 PM
DA is quite a bit higher.

All you need is a correction factor diff. and you can calculate the dynojet numbers. Was this with any load on it?

Mazzenger
04-05-2012, 09:31 PM
What about adding an underdrive pulley?
I would take it to the track and see how it does compared to previous runs.

raysadude
04-05-2012, 09:33 PM
it has UDP already

raysadude
04-05-2012, 09:40 PM
i can't go to the track tomorrow because i have to go to the church with my wife, next week on friday i will.

2xLS1
04-05-2012, 09:54 PM
DA is quite a bit higher.

All you need is a correction factor diff. and you can calculate the dynojet numbers. Was this with any load on it?

We do all pulls on the Mustang Dyno with the load on. We use vehicle weight and HP@50 as provided by Mustang Dyno for that vehicle. We can multiply the MD numbers by 1.14 and get pretty close to what vehicles dyno on another 48" Dynojet in town. The Dynojet he used at Abel after the final tune with the LS6 intake is a 24" model. They don't read the same as the 48" models around here. Also Abel always give out STD numbers.

raysadude
04-05-2012, 10:07 PM
413 x 1.14 = 470

what my trap speed should be?

i'll def go to track next week, if it wasn't easter i'd go this friday.

gectek
04-05-2012, 10:27 PM
It is usually not a problem to change from STD to SAE on the dyno. Yes, alot are default STD but with a few clicks it should change to SAE. I know as I have ran both an MD and DJ both with eddy currents.

Mazzenger
04-05-2012, 10:30 PM
120-123mph trap..is my guess

2xLS1
04-05-2012, 10:49 PM
It is usually not a problem to change from STD to SAE on the dyno. Yes, alot are default STD but with a few clicks it should change to SAE. I know as I have ran both an MD and DJ both with eddy currents.

I've been operating dynos for over 10 years. I don't need lessons on that. I can't control how shops I don't tune at operate theirs or what results they give customers. As much as I hate to send anyone to Abel, I would like to see the car re-dynoed on their dyno since it was dynoed there shortly after the final tune was done with the LS6 intake. I also want the DJ files from all the runs there, not just paper prints.

raysadude
04-05-2012, 10:49 PM
i'll be very happy if i can do 117-119 to be honest..

gectek
04-05-2012, 10:52 PM
I've been operating dynos for over 10 years. I don't need lessons on that. I can't control how shops I don't tune at operate theirs or what results they give customers. As much as I hate to send anyone to Abel, I would like to see the car re-dynoed on their dyno since it was dynoed there shortly after the final tune was done with the LS6 intake. I also want the DJ files from all the runs there, not just paper prints.

Not trying to school you, just posting up info for others to read.

raysadude
04-05-2012, 10:52 PM
and glen i can ask them for the run file, if that's what you mean.

gectek
04-05-2012, 10:53 PM
Would be interesting to see the diff in the 2.

Johnnystock
04-06-2012, 01:32 AM
i'll be very happy if i can do 117-119 to be honest..

Very good guess

MoBoost
04-09-2012, 11:06 AM
The Dynojet he used at Abel after the final tune with the LS6 intake is a 24" model. They don't read the same as the 48" models around here. Also Abel always give out STD numbers.

Your information is incorrect - 24" and 48" read the same; I've put literally thousands of runs on both dynos and tested same cars on both to see if there is any difference - there isn't. Mine does read a bit higher - after I'm done with the car ;)

As much as I hate to send anyone to Abel, I would like to see the car re-dynoed on their dyno since it was dynoed there shortly after the final tune was done with the LS6 intake. I also want the DJ files from all the runs there, not just paper prints.

Hate all you want. Dyno is a tuning tool - switching dynos in hopes of a wonder dynopull is not a tuning solution.

Andrei @ ABEL Racing

MoBoost
04-09-2012, 11:52 AM
Here is a test of FAST102. The car never came off the dyno - the manifolds were switched right there.

Stock LS1 short block.
Stock 241 heads
Raptor cam
Vararam intake

LS6 vs FAST 102

Speed Density tune on both.

http://i43.tinypic.com/34z0tn9.jpg

2xLS1
04-09-2012, 12:41 PM
Your information is incorrect - 24" and 48" read the same; I've put literally thousands of runs on both dynos and tested same cars on both to see if there is any difference - there isn't. Mine does read a bit higher - after I'm done with the car ;)



Hate all you want. Dyno is a tuning tool - switching dynos in hopes of a wonder dynopull is not a tuning solution.

Andrei @ ABEL Racing

Whose 48" Dynojet are you putting these cars on for your thousands of runs you are comparing back to back? B&R? Alternative? Cars that have dynoed on your 24 and XPs 24 don't dyno anywhere near the same #s on B&R's and Alternative's 48" Dynojets. I've seen cars come straight from those 24's on to the 48's I mentioned. And trust me you don't want to get in a pissing match with me about your tunes. And I don't want Ray's car back on your dyno for some magical wonder dyno #. I just want to see a before and after on the same Dynojet that the car was on before the swap. Unfortunately that happens to be yours. Or is it Bobbie's?

MoBoost
04-09-2012, 01:35 PM
Whose 48" Dynojet are you putting these cars on for your thousands of runs you are comparing back to back? B&R? Alternative? Cars that have dynoed on your 24 and XPs 24 don't dyno anywhere near the same #s on B&R's and Alternative's 48" Dynojets. I've seen cars come straight from those 24's on to the 48's I mentioned. And trust me you don't want to get in a pissing match with me about your tunes. And I don't want Ray's car back on your dyno for some magical wonder dyno #. I just want to see a before and after on the same Dynojet that the car was on before the swap. Unfortunately that happens to be yours. Or is it Bobbie's?

Nice name drops ... too bad you don't know what you are talking about. B&R's 48" dyno spent 6 years at my shop - we've put 10,673 pulls on it before it went to B&R. FYI - Bobby was a partner on our 24" for exactly 6 month 5 years ago ...

You had crap results on two proven dynos with proven parts - guess what is the variable?

P.S. Word on the street is - you are doing tunes for free just to step on my toes. I guess you get what you pay for ...

gtotoocool1
04-09-2012, 03:45 PM
just put the car on the strip to see what it traps.screw the dyno#s..

2xLS1
04-09-2012, 10:10 PM
Nice name drops ... too bad you don't know what you are talking about. B&R's 48" dyno spent 6 years at my shop - we've put 10,673 pulls on it before it went to B&R. FYI - Bobby was a partner on our 24" for exactly 6 month 5 years ago ...

You had crap results on two proven dynos with proven parts - guess what is the variable?

P.S. Word on the street is - you are doing tunes for free just to step on my toes. I guess you get what you pay for ...



Tune for free to step on your toes? I don't think so. You need to put some ice on that swollen head of yours. If you are referring to donating a free tune at the fund raiser for the driver that got killed at Thunder Valley, then yes I occasionally will do a free tune. I had over 65 calls last week, 27in one day about tuning. Why would I tune for free? Your tuning is no competition for my tuning and is insignificant to me. Ray's exact words said in front of me, Bo, and Matt at APS were "when I dynoed it at Abel, Andrei said he couldn't get any more out of it" Do you want to deny that and call Ray a liar? And for 7 1/2 years prior to B&R owning the 48" Dynojet, Powerhouse owned it.. You just happened to share a building with another business that owned a dyno. Kind of funny how when Powerhouse moved out of the shared building they took “your” Dynojet with them. Again tell me about you dynoing on 48" Dynojets and then running the cars immediately on your 24 for comparison. Do you want to continue this pissing match? Do you want me to show the world what I found when I retuned Tim’s yellow 02 CE T/A with the Procharger that you tuned first. I have many others too. If I wanted to step on your toes I would have gone public a year ago with what I found. Sorry it took so long to reply but i was busy tuning.

techls1
04-10-2012, 08:56 AM
Well in the world of cars, bigger does not always mean better. I would expect to loose tq and HP with a 101 due to the displacement of the motor. The reason for the loss is that since you opened up the size of the opening the velocity of the air has been reduced. If you went to a larger motor with a larger bore you would then see the FAST 102 really come alive but its too large for small motor. Back at the day in the shop, guys would come in with a set of Big Chiefs and want to run them on a 454. We would tell them that they will work, but your better off with smaller intake runner. The motors would run, but only make power when the motor was turning some high RPM's. This is the same effect with the FAST intake as well. You may want to try downgrading to a 90mm throttle body.

MoBoost
04-10-2012, 12:25 PM
DISCLAIMER: I've known shop owners around the state for many years and have very good relationships with every single one of them. This post is in NO WAY meant to discredit or offend any of the shops or shop owners: APS, B&R, Alternative, Powerhouse, Humble, XP, 1% etc etc etc.


Tune for free to step on your toes? I don't think so. You need to put some ice on that swollen head of yours. If you are referring to donating a free tune at the fund raiser for the driver that got killed at Thunder Valley, then yes I occasionally will do a free tune. I had over 65 calls last week, 27in one day about tuning. Why would I tune for free?
I dunno, bubba, you tell me. Ray and Mark came within a week and said that tunes were done for free - no donation, no fundraiser ... made me raise my eyebrow. Free tunes - 27 calls - makes sense.

Ray's exact words said in front of me, Bo, and Matt at APS were "when I dynoed it at Abel, Andrei said he couldn't get any more out of it"

He said, she said ... but what I said that the $500 that I would charge for a full speed density tune is not worth the 10whp we'll see; but maybe it is.


And trust me you don't want to get in a pissing match with me about your tunes.
Do you want to continue this pissing match? Do you want me to show the world what I found when I retuned Timís yellow 02 CE T/A with the Procharger that you tuned first. I have many others too.
Your empty threats are pretty ballsy - no wonder there are so many YOUR customers that want to get physical with ya. After years of crap talk about Ed Wright and him retiring you need a new scapegoat?

I don't know why trying to somehow discredit me with what I own and what I don't - as I said, you don't know what you talking about ... I mean - what do you have to your name? A 12 second ride and a bootleg copy of HPTuners?

You want to play rough - I don't know what you see in my tunes, but here is a proof that I did have full access to the 48" dyno and you don't know what you were doing - I still have all the files including your so-called tunes for Powerhouse.

Remember that Supercharged LSX powered sand buggy? You charged the guy $600 and I had to make excuses to the customer for you ... that's when enough was enough.

http://i44.tinypic.com/5jvbtd.jpg

First pull and the last pull the way you let the customer go.
Great power gain and AFR tuning there !!! WOO-HOO!!!!

:offtopic:




Let's get back on topic - WHY DON'T YOU DO A SPEED DENSITY TUNE ON RAY'S CAR?
I've posted what 102 does on almost identical setup with proper tuning.

gectek
04-10-2012, 01:14 PM
At this point in his build, speed density is not the way he should go?

2xLS1
04-10-2012, 04:55 PM
DISCLAIMER: I've known shop owners around the state for many years and have very good relationships with every single one of them. This post is in NO WAY meant to discredit or offend any of the shops or shop owners: APS, B&R, Alternative, Powerhouse, Humble, XP, 1% etc etc etc.

Well I don't need any disclamer to say with every post you show what a dumb ass you are. And I go to a lot of shops who have nothing good to say about Abel. Maybe you should get out more and see what your reputation really is.



I dunno, bubba, you tell me. Ray and Mark came within a week and said that tunes were done for free - no donation, no fundraiser ... made me raise my eyebrow. Free tunes - 27 calls - makes sense.

I charged Ray $150 and another 20 to recheck it on the dyno after he swapped intakes. Don't believe me? Ask Bo. He was there when Ray paid me. Sorry, I don't know who Mark is.



He said, she said ... but what I said that the $500 that I would charge for a full speed density tune is not worth the 10whp we'll see; but maybe it is.

Then do it. I don't care




Your empty threats are pretty ballsy - no wonder there are so many YOUR customers that want to get physical with ya. After years of crap talk about Ed Wright and him retiring you need a new scapegoat?

I talk about crap I find in crappy tunes. And I'm getting ready to show some of yours. If it happens to be a well known tuner who thinks their shit don't stink, makes no difference to me. Ed is still tuning out of his house and I am still being asked to fix his tunes. You name one person who has even come close to getting physical with me or so much as even raised their voice. The majority of my customers are under 30 years with the most of them probably under 25. Who that age gets physical with someone my age? Again, name one.



I don't know why trying to somehow discredit me with what I own and what I don't - as I said, you don't know what you talking about ... I mean - what do you have to your name? A 12 second ride and a bootleg copy of HPTuners?

I'm worth more money than you've made in your whole life. I could have any second ride I want. At age 56, I don't need or want any thing faster than I have. What does having a faster ride than anything I have prove? And what is a bootleg copy of HP Tuners? I have purchased a Serial and USB cable from them, still have both and have spent over $15K with them. I remember when you had to borrow my HP Tuners to tune a Cobalt. I'm going to show everyone the files from that too.

You want to play rough - I don't know what you see in my tunes, but here is a proof that I did have full access to the 48" dyno and you don't know what you were doing - I still have all the files including your so-called tunes for Powerhouse.

Good for you. I have the hard drive out of the PC when Powerhouse sold the dyno. I set the PC up for Powerhouse at their new shop and for B&R when they bought it. I have the files too. Whop-de-doo.

Remember that Supercharged LSX powered sand buggy? You charged the guy $600 and I had to make excuses to the customer for you ... that's when enough was enough.

You need to talk to Bryan Snead, owner of Powerhouse. He accepeted the sand buggy job and then asked me to try and tune it. The owner didn't even show up with the buggy but sent his secretary down with it who nothing about it. It had an unknown controller and the customers own laptop and unknown tuning software. I never said I could tune it or that it was even tunable with the controller and software he was using. I agreed to help Bryan because he had already accepted the job. BTW, I charged the customer $0 for about 8 hours of my time. That's right, I charged him nothing because I couldn't make it run right. Bryan charged him all that money for spending 8 hours on the dyno. I even traveled 100 miles each way to Little Sahara that night to try and make it better while driving it around on the sand. I told him to put a GM PCM on it and I could fix it. Is that all you've got? That was back in April, 2006. Had to go back that far to find dirt on me?

http://i44.tinypic.com/5jvbtd.jpg

First pull and the last pull the way you let the customer go.
Great power gain and AFR tuning there !!! WOO-HOO!!!!

:offtopic:




Let's get back on topic - WHY DON'T YOU DO A SPEED DENSITY TUNE ON RAY'S CAR?
I've posted what 102 does on almost identical setup with proper tuning.

At this point in his build, speed density is not the way he should go?

2xLS1
04-10-2012, 05:21 PM
Here is an example of why I talk shit about Ed Wright. I got this email on 3/31/12.

Glen

I had you tune my Red GMC a while back. I've installed an EPS 218/222
0.596"/0.598" cam from Geoff, per your recommendation. I had Ed Wright tune it
after the install, due to the fact that you were tied up until after I needed
tune (I was going on a long road trip and needed it safe to drive). The truck
has run horrible since he retuned it; it dies at idle, has no power (way less
than stock) till after 4,000 RPM and then starts pulling. I re-researched the
cam, talk to Comp Cams, talked to Geoff and everything says it should not loose
any power compared to stock. Geoff told me I may have put the cam in wrong and
that would definitely affect when the power came on. Well, I pulled her apart
last night, the cam is timed correctly with the timing marks. So, I checked the
intake lobe centerline with a degree wheel and came up with 111.5 degrees (cam
card says 111 degrees, so pretty close). The one weird thing I found, when I
pulled the plugs they are a very dark brown on the porcelain; so, it's obviously
running very rich (when I pulled the plugs out after your tune, when it was
stock, they were a beautiful very light tan..."lean is mean").

Long story short, I need you tune my truck in a bad way...very bad. Will you
please set me up an initial appointment so you can look it over?

Let me know. Thank you, sir.

Best Regards,
J N

MoBoost
04-10-2012, 05:57 PM
I charged Ray $150 and another 20 to recheck it on the dyno after he swapped intakes.

Wow, you openly admit to not tuning the car for Fast 102, calling it "good" and expecting gains ... and you call me a "dumb ass" and yourself a "tuner". Best of luck.

THE END.


Re dyno the car, and she made 438/405 with cutout open, before it was 429/401

so there 9 rwhp/ 4rwtq to my ls6 intake and stock ported TB.

pretty disappointed for the amount of money that i spent :( will have Glen to re-tune her and we'll see if she's going to make more power.

the temperature today is around 78 not that it matters much.

Well, now that the truth is out, that the car was not tuned for the FAST102 - you really should invest in a proper tune. You can't expect the full gains without tuning for a part that changes VE so dramatically.

gectek
04-10-2012, 06:11 PM
Can you 2 stop comparing your dicks on this thread?

What he prob meant by retune is that he thinks it is a fresh part and prob needs time to settle in before it makes better number with another tune. You know, the same reason people think that when they dyno a fresh engine and after "break in" they go redyno to see the power they picked up?

But none of you care about that. Please stop. The thread is going no where now.

MoBoost
04-10-2012, 06:41 PM
Can you 2 stop comparing your dicks on this thread?

What he prob meant by retune is that he thinks it is a fresh part and prob needs time to settle in before it makes better number with another tune. You know, the same reason people think that when they dyno a fresh engine and after "break in" they go redyno to see the power they picked up?

But none of you care about that. Please stop. The thread is going no where now.

The gains with a proper timing and AFR curve are immediate as I have clearly shown with a dynograph posted. There is no need to "break in" an intake manifold.

2xLS1
04-10-2012, 07:45 PM
Tim with the Procharged 02 CE T/A. Brought the car to APS for a retune after he installed a cam. Abel tuned it before the cam with just the Procharger. The car had 60lb Deatchwerks injectors that Abel sold him.We called Deatchwerks and verified that is what he had. Here is the IFR and PE table we found in the tune. And not just me. Bo at APS read the file out of it before I even got there. He found the samre thing so it's not like I'm making this up.

http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/4817/abel2c.jpg

http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/3203/abel1.jpg

2xLS1
04-10-2012, 08:14 PM
May, 2007. The great tuner at Abel didn't even have his own HP Tuners. He had to borrow mine to tune a 06 Cobalt. After i showed the great tuner how to use the software, here is what the kid ended up with for $500. I had nothing to do with this tune, just provided the lap top and HP Tuners cable. Load tune file 6 and then the stock file as a compare and do a comparison summary.

2xLS1
04-10-2012, 08:28 PM
I have lots more..... but I'm done

To the original poster Ray, If you are not happy with your tune and think that is your problem, just say the word and I will put the tune in your car you started with and refund all the money you paid me for the tune and you can take your car to the great tuner at ABEL.

MoBoost
04-10-2012, 09:00 PM
Tim with the Procharged 02 CE T/A. Brought the car to APS for a retune after he installed a cam. Abel tuned it before the cam with just the Procharger. The car had 60lb Deatchwerks injectors that Abel sold him.We called Deatchwerks and verified that is what he had. Here is the IFR and PE table we found in the tune. And not just me. Bo at APS read the file out of it before I even got there. He found the samre thing so it's not like I'm making this up.

Oh, boy, I usually don't do tuning lessons online or for free for that matter, but what the heck...

Injectors are intentionally scaled down to keep the timing tables dynamic.
I know its a bit over your tuning capabilities, but when someone hands you over a great tune, maybe you should pay attention, because, honestly, this is pathetic.

gectek
04-10-2012, 09:37 PM
You two are screwing up a relatively decent thread. I am sure there is a reason the OP is not posting back.....dont you?

2xLS1
04-10-2012, 09:59 PM
Oh please. Don't make me post more pics. The timing tables aren't scaled, the VE table isn't scaled, The MAF table isn't scaled, or any other table that should be scaled in a scaled tune. When he arrived at APS his O2s were so covered with black soot they were dead. As were his plugs. Why isn't this one tuned in SD oh great SD tuner?

2xLS1
04-10-2012, 10:04 PM
You two are screwing up a relatively decent thread. I am sure there is a reason the OP is not posting back.....dont you?

Don't worry. He is communicating with me directly. I offer a money back guarantee on everything I tune. Nothing special for him. Anyone I tune for can have that deal.

Andrei just thinks he is the only one in the OKC area that can tune.

JP
04-11-2012, 09:27 AM
Both of you are PATHETIC.

Johnnystock
04-11-2012, 01:17 PM
I think its fun to watch this!! yay!

Johnnystock
04-11-2012, 01:25 PM
Here is a test of FAST102. The car never came off the dyno - the manifolds were switched right there.

Stock LS1 short block.
Stock 241 heads
Raptor cam
Vararam intake

LS6 vs FAST 102

Speed Density tune on both.

http://i43.tinypic.com/34z0tn9.jpg

gains from only 5500-6600 and up arent that good for everyday use. I hope some hp under the curve can be gained with a tune..Anyway, my FAST setup did a bit better but from 4000-6400, but its 92mm ported...LS6 is a potent piece!

MoBoost
04-11-2012, 01:39 PM
gains from only 5500-6600 and up arent that good for everyday use. I hope some hp under the curve can be gained with a tune..Anyway, my FAST setup did a bit better but from 4000-6400, but its 92mm ported...LS6 is a potent piece!

It's hard to tell on the picture but indeed it gained 5-10whp 4100-5200 and up from there. Nothing was ported/matched on this car. Obviously different cams and cubes would affect it differently. It also depends on what your every day use is :D

okc pope man
04-13-2012, 02:17 PM
Question for Glen, would you call yourself a professional tuner or a hobby or "side job" tuner? Do you have a company name or are you registered with the state as a business? Just curious what level you have taken your expertise to since I have not heard any mention of your personal shop and see no contact or business info in your sig. Thanks.

got milk??
05-11-2012, 08:56 AM
just put the car on the strip to see what it traps.screw the dyno#s..

^^^for the 1000th time do this ^^^

Z284thgen
05-11-2012, 12:55 PM
Ported 243 heads from TSP.

whats the chamber CC on these heads and what pistons in the motor flat top or dished


what kinda compression does this motor have it seems like it maybe a 9:1 motor


i have a LQ9 bottom end heads from MM98 that he/someone in okc ported and a comp shelf cam 238/240 112 deal its aprox 11:1 motor and made not much less and you have way better heads cam then me

raysadude
05-11-2012, 08:47 PM
They are 64cc and I believe it has flat top piston, since the block is lq9. Track times will tell more about the power the cars making. I just don't have the time yet to hit the track.

I'll close this thread with track times.

Z284thgen
05-12-2012, 05:19 AM
lq4/9 blocks are the same the diff is in pistons

raysadude
06-14-2012, 10:09 AM
to put this thread to rest i've changed several things and was surprised that i actually gained back the lost power on midrange RPM.

here's what i changed:
FAST 92mm TB
FTP 98mm
85mm MAF

now i gained back all the power i lost from ls6 intake, and gain after 5400 RPM, even though i changed my lid and MAF i think the part that mostly accountable for the gain is the TB. not saying 102mm TB is too big for every case but it did for my case.

/thread

masnart2000
06-14-2012, 07:39 PM
Nice numbers!

BLWN1
07-22-2012, 12:23 AM
nice info....

I8UR4RD
07-22-2012, 10:30 PM
Fast 102 is for big boy power IMO.

raysadude
10-10-2012, 10:24 PM
Dyno result with TFS heads is in.

ZTwentyAteU
10-10-2012, 11:32 PM
I'm kinda late on seeing this thread, figured i'd throw some numbers your way, but dynojet
I put a lq9 in a camaro with tv2 cam and ls6 intake with pacesetters(stock 317 heads). 6 speed car. Made 425rwhp, I cant remember tq numbers, it was high 300s. Made 602hp and 630 ftlb on some nitrous too. Loved the spray

raysadude
10-11-2012, 06:59 AM
Many years ago the car made 425/408 on dyno jet, but since I did intake swap I always go to Mustang dyno.

Brian Tooley
10-11-2012, 07:51 AM
Nice gains with the TFS heads Ray!

raysadude
10-11-2012, 12:39 PM
Nice gains with the TFS heads Ray!

Thanks Brian! wouldn't happen without your push rods lol..:judge:

raysadude
10-11-2012, 12:40 PM
this is using off the shelf part, no porting on intake manifold and heads, imagine what porting both parts would gain me...:burn:

Martin@Tick
10-14-2012, 02:44 PM
This thread delivered...mainly in the poo flinging aspect....

raysadude
10-14-2012, 03:01 PM
O well, what happened happen, live and learn I guess LOL. At least the results that I posted on this thread are backed up with dyno facts not some random physics..

Martin@Tick
10-14-2012, 03:57 PM
O well, what happened happen, live and learn I guess LOL. At least the results that I posted on this thread are backed up with dyno facts not some random physics..

Yes, that they are.