Automotive News, Media & Press - Chevrolet Unveils Track-Ready Camaro 1LE

2013 Camaro 1LE: 426-hp, 1g cornering, under $40,000

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1LE features Camaro ZL1-inspired chassis and suspension enhancements 2013 Camaro LT, SS and ZL1 models available with MyLink infotainment system

DETROIT – The road-racing inspired Camaro 1LE performance package returns for 2013 with unique gearing, suspension tuning, and tires that makes the model capable of more than 1 g of lateral acceleration and a sub-three minute lap time at Virginia International Raceway's Grand Course. It is offered on Camaro SS coupes with manual transmissions.

"The Camaro 1LE combines the best elements of the SS and ZL1 to take road-racing performance to a whole new level," said Al Oppenheiser, Camaro chief engineer. "That the 1LE breaks the three-minute lap at VIR puts it in the upper echelon of performance cars. That it starts under $40,000 makes the Camaro 1LE one of the most affordable, most capable track-day cars offered by any manufacturer."

In anticipation of consumers entering the 1LE in amateur-racing events, Chevrolet is pursuing SCCA approval of the 1LE package for Touring Class competition.

For 2013, all Camaro SS models including the 1LE will feature standard variable-effort electric power steering and an available dual-mode exhaust system. Both features were introduced on the ZL1. Additionally, 2013 Camaro LT, SS and ZL1 models are available with Chevrolet's color touch radio with MyLink infotainment system.

"With the 2013 model year, Camaro offers something for almost every driver, including: the 323-horsepower, 30-mpg 2LS; the all-new, 580-horsepower supercharged ZL1 convertible; the COPO Camaro for drag-racing; and the new 1LE for amateur track days," said John Fitzpatrick, Camaro marketing manager. "We expect the range of choices, and enhancements for 2013, will help Camaro remain America's most-popular sports car."

Camaro sales were up nearly 20 percent for the first two months of the year, building on an 8.5-percent gain for all of 2011. The 1LE package goes on sale this fall with the 2013 Camaro line. Pricing will be released later this year.

A heritage of handling

The Camaro 1LE package was introduced in 1988, inspired by Camaro's involvement in Pro-Am road racing.

For 2013, the 1LE package is offered only on 1SS and 2SS coupe models, featuring a 6.2L LS3 V-8, which is rated at 426 horsepower (318 kW) and 420 lb-ft of torque (569 Nm). In addition, 1LE is only available with a six-speed manual transmission.

While the Camaro SS features a Tremec TR6060-M10 for all-around performance, the Camaro 1LE features an exclusive Tremec TR6060-MM6. Paired with a numerically higher 3.91 final-drive ratio, the close-ratio gearing of the transmission is tuned for road-racing performance. As with the ZL1, the 1LE transmission features a standard air-to-liquid cooling system for track use.

The 1LE also features exclusive, monotube rear dampers instead of the twin-tube dampers on SS models. The new hardware allowed engineers to tune the 1LE suspension to focus on optimal body-motion control while preserving much of the ride quality and wheel-motion control of the Camaro SS.

Other changes to optimize the 1LE for track-day use include:


Larger, 27-mm solid front stabilizer bar, and 28-mm solid rear stabilizer bar for improved body control
Higher-capacity rear-axle half shafts to cope with increased levels of traction
Strut tower brace for improved steering feel and response
ZL1-based 20 x 10-inch front and 20 x 11-inch aluminum wheels
285/35ZR20 Goodyear Eagle Supercar G:2 tires front and rear (identical to the front tires for ZL1)
ZL1 wheel bearings, toe links and rear shock mounts for improved on-track performance
ZL1 high-capacity fuel pump and additional fuel pickups for improved fuel delivery during high-cornering

Visually, the 1LE package for 2013 is distinguished by its matte-black hood, front splitter and rear spoiler – as well as the 10-spoke ZL1-based wheels, which are finished in black. The functional front splitter and rear spoiler contribute to the car's on-track performance by helping to reduce aerodynamic lift at high speeds.

Inside, the 1LE package incorporates the ZL1's flat-bottom steering wheel, trimmed in sueded-microfiber and designed for easier heel-and-toe driving on the racetrack. The quick-acting, short-throw shifter from the ZL1 is also trimmed in sueded microfiber.

Electric power steering and dual-mode exhaust bring ZL1 technology to SS models

All 2013 Camaro SS models, including the 1LE, will benefit from performance technologies that debuted on the 580-horsepower Camaro ZL1.

The improvements began in 2012, when all SS Coupes incorporated the ZL1-derived chassis element: Stabilizer bars with drop links repositioned outboard of the control arms. This made the stabilizer bars four times more effective than in previous models, for improved control of body roll and crisper response to steering input.

New for 2013, the electric power steering system developed for the ZL1 will be standard on all 2013 SS models. The variable ratio, variable effort system provides light efforts for easy maneuverability at parking-lot speeds as well as increased resistance at higher speeds. This provides more feedback, and a more direct steering feel, to the driver.

Also new for 2013 is an available dual-mode exhaust system, available on Camaro SS models with the LS3 V8 engine and six-speed manual transmissions. Similar to the systems found on the ZL1 and Corvette models, this vacuum-actuated system provides a quieter driving experience at low engine speeds and a more aggressive sound at high engine speeds.

MyLink connects you

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Chevrolet's color touch radio with MyLink infotainment is available on all 2013 Camaro LT, SS and ZL1 models. The color touch radio, with a 7-inch touch screen, also can be paired with an available in-dash GPS navigation system – a first for the Camaro.

The color touch radio with MyLink gives customers a higher level of in-vehicle wireless connectivity and customized infotainment options, while building on the safety and security of OnStar. It seamlessly integrates online services such as Pandora® internet radio and Stitcher SmartRadio® using hands-free voice and touch-screen controls via Bluetooth-enabled phones.

MyLink adds stereo audio streaming and wireless control of smartphones, building on the voice-activated Bluetooth hands-free calling capability already offered in most Chevy vehicles. The high-resolution, full-color touch screen display makes media selection easy to navigate.

MyLink also retains all the capabilities of today's entertainment functions, including AM/FM/Sirius XM tuners, auxiliary and USB inputs.

In before someone worries about how much it will weigh.

Now they are starting to build a car I would buy.

So that interior and infotainment crap is what Chevy thinks goes on a track model :confused:. Why is a stripped down balls to the wall performance car such a bad idea?

In before someone worries about how much it will weigh.

Build sheet on camaro5 says 3849. Same as a 1SS.

Would have been nice if they added a little more power with a cam change to around 450hp. It is going to have a hard time against a Boss on most tracks with standard SS power.

Looks like GM is saving the extra power for 2015 and the new chassis.

Now they are starting to build a car I would buy.

Agreed.

So that interior and infotainment crap is what Chevy thinks goes on a track model :confused:. Why is a stripped down balls to the wall performance car such a bad idea?

MyLink is apparently standard on all Chevrolets for 2013. I don't like it either, it's full of things I would never use and the tech advances to quickly to be built into a car.

So that interior and infotainment crap is what Chevy thinks goes on a track model :confused:. Why is a stripped down balls to the wall performance car such a bad idea?



Because we, as enthusiasts, are such a small fraction of the new car buying segment, that catering to us does not turn a profit. Sad but true.

Because we, as enthusiasts, are such a small fraction of the new car buying segment, that catering to us does not turn a profit. Sad but true.

It's a good thing Toyota and Subaru are stepping up with their new lightweight track coupe. One that weighs nearly one thousand pounds less, will use less fuel and whose tires won't cost five hundred dollars or more a pop. It will also cost substantially less to buy brand new.

No no magnetic ride suspension? Sounds like a good setup either way but still the MRS would have been pretty fun in a 1LE SS.

It's a good thing Toyota and Subaru are stepping up with their new lightweight track coupe. One that weighs nearly one thousand pounds less, will use less fuel and whose tires won't cost five hundred dollars or more a pop. It will also cost substantially less to buy brand new.

Well I would hope it would use less fuel as the engine sounds to be relatively gutless :jest:

So they release a track-oriented model capable of pulling 1G, but do nothing to address LSx oil starvation in high-G turns?

Now they are starting to build a car I would buy.

+1

I'd be interested to see how it does at the strip with the improved gearing and stickier rubber over the SS. Any predictions?

In before someone worries about how much it will weigh.

This cracked me up.lol

Im waiting on the new Camaro platform (6th gen). To me the major stepping stone with this 5th gen is the platform itself. I hope GM brings a more efficient platform next time around. They are just trying to keep up with the Mustang different versions in the market right know. They need to make Ford follow them instead of the other way around.

I can see what they're doing allowing you to order 1LE on a 2SS is to directly compete with the Boss 302, I can see no weight reduction because the 302 doesn't weight any less than a GT...

But this just seems ghey. This is about the same as SLP with the freakin' G8 Firehawk or new GN... its an abuse of the name. 1LE= Lightweight stripper, bottom line, no discussion. This car would have been better off as a z28, and use 1LE as an option across all trims to rip out every, single, tiny piece that doesn't help drive the car or keep you from getting killed....

At least the weight will all this is only that of a bottom end 1SS and not that of a fully loaded 2SS car.

I can see what they're doing allowing you to order 1LE on a 2SS is to directly compete with the Boss 302, I can see no weight reduction because the 302 doesn't weight any less than a GT...

But this just seems ghey. This is about the same as SLP with the freakin' G8 Firehawk or new GN... its an abuse of the name. 1LE= Lightweight stripper, bottom line, no discussion. This car would have been better off as a z28, and use 1LE as an option across all trims to rip out every, single, tiny piece that doesn't help drive the car or keep you from getting killed....

In today's world getting a true stripper model like many are crying out for will not happen, way to many safety regulations and what not these days.

I guess this is the "Z28" we were hoping for?:huh:
Or maybe that's still coming?

It's a good thing Toyota and Subaru are stepping up with their new lightweight track coupe. One that weighs nearly one thousand pounds less, will use less fuel and whose tires won't cost five hundred dollars or more a pop. It will also cost substantially less to buy brand new.All true.
But I think you forgot to mention the part about the Toyota/Subaru being notably slower in a straight line than a plain jane grocery getter such as a Dodge Avenger V6, never mind a Camaro/Mustang V8.
Not exactly very "track coupe" in my opinion but hey, apparently you like it.
And yes I understand, not everyone is quite man enough to handle a V8 anyway. ;)

Welcome, the boss killer has arrived. I'll be ordering one soon.

i think this is a great idea and would be a fun car to throw around.

All true.
But I think you forgot to mention the part about the Toyota/Subaru being notably slower in a straight line than a plain jane grocery getter such as a Dodge Avenger V6, never mind a Camaro/Mustang V8.
Not exactly very "track coupe" in my opinion but hey, apparently you like it.
And yes I understand, not everyone is quite man enough to handle a V8 anyway. ;)

Apparently not everyone is man enough to try or admit a four cylinder car purpose engineered to perform can and will outperform 4,000lb coupes based on a track. And for nearly half as much money brand new.

I own two recent LSX cars and find the FT86/BRZ very appealing.

When subee does a STI version look out mark ;)

I guess this is the "Z28" we were hoping for?:huh:
Or maybe that's still coming?

Z28 is still coming. I'm hoping they hold out until the Alpha platform is released.

Apparently not everyone is man enough to try or admit a four cylinder car purpose engineered to perform can and will outperform 4,000lb coupes based on a track.Depends on which track. ;)





When subee does a STI version look out mark ;)I agree, if (and that's a big 'if') that projected STi/turbo version actually comes out later on it will have A LOT of potential. It should be pretty quick in stock form but we all know the potential with factory boosted vehicles (especially light ones like this), after a few mild tweaks that car could be a real killer. :burn:

Z28 is still coming. I'm hoping they hold out until the Alpha platform is released.:nod:

Welcome, the boss killer has arrived. I'll be ordering one soon.Uhhhh.....no. BOSS still weighs less, handles better and has equal horsepower. BOSS will still kick it around the track.

That does not scream "Track-ready" Why must chevy fail so bad?

Why does the interior show power everything still?

Uhhhh.....no. BOSS still weighs less, handles better and has equal horsepower. BOSS will still kick it around the track.

The 1LE has the same suspension as the ZL1, but weighs 300-400 lbs less. How can you be so sure that the boss will beat the 1LE when the ZL1 beat the boss 302 (Laguna seca none the less) around the track? I'm not saying that there is a clear cut answer here, but I think it's a little asinine to be so sure of your statement.

The 1LE has the same suspension as the ZL1, but weighs 300-400 lbs less. How can you be so sure that the boss will beat the 1LE when the ZL1 beat the boss 302 (Laguna seca none the less) around the track? I'm not saying that there is a clear cut answer here, but I think it's a little asinine to be so sure of your statement.

Same suspension, and about 150+ hp less than a ZL1, which didn't exactly blow the Boss off the track. My guess is the Boss is faster, both in a straight line and around a road course, than the 1LE. The gap is much smaller though than the existing gap between the Boss and the SS (probably similar to the GT vs. SS arguments, with the Mustang winning again).

Same suspension, and about 150+ hp less than a ZL1, which didn't exactly blow the Boss off the track. My guess is the Boss is faster, both in a straight line and around a road course, than the 1LE. The gap is much smaller though than the existing gap between the Boss and the SS (probably similar to the GT vs. SS arguments, with the Mustang winning again).

Eh, HP isn't everything. Take a look at the C6Z06 (with the track pack/michelin tires) vs C6ZR1, the Z06 has edges out the 130+more hp ZR1 more than once.

Also, take a look at the 07-09 GT500's vs the 2010-11 SS. On more than one track the SS beat out the 07-09 GT500, even though the Shelby had 100hp more and they weighed about the same.

There has also been road tracks where the current (2010-2012) GT500 has beaten out the C6 Z06...there's so much more than HP and weight, and I think that people really need to realize that.

For illustration sake, If you have a 450hp car that weighs 3,200 lbs and has shopping kart suspension and tires off a hot wheels car, chances are, it isn't going to be worth a damn. The ZL1/1LE suspension is fantastic, and definitely more advanced and nicer than what the boss currently has.

But all and all, the 1LE will be underrated and considered a "disappointment" by many, just like the ZL1 because all people look at is weight and HP and think they're geniuses. Important factors? Yes. Only factors? Absolutely not.

Eh, HP isn't everything. Take a look at the C6Z06 (with the track pack/michelin tires) vs C6ZR1, the Z06 has edges out the 130+more hp ZR1 more than once.

Also, take a look at the 07-09 GT500's vs the 2010-11 SS. On more than one track the SS beat out the 07-09 GT500, even though the Shelby had 100hp more and they weighed about the same.

There has also been road tracks where the current (2010-2012) GT500 has beaten out the C6 Z06...there's so much more than HP and weight, and I think that people really need to realize that.

I agree that HP isn't everything, but you're now arguing the setup of a car on different tracks. Of course horsepower comes into play more on some tracks than others. A stock Miata can outrun a lot of vehicles if you put it on a small/complex enough track, but that's not to say the Miata is a better all around car. And I take nothing away from how amazing the new Magnetic Ride suspension is on the Chevy. The fact that is is coming stock on a lot of performance vehicles in the lineup is awesome from a consumer standpoint, but it doesn't always overcome the power/weight ratio on the Mustang. It depends on the track.

My stance is the Boss will out-perform the 1LE more often than not, assuming all other conditions equal (track conditions, driver, etc.). That's not to say that the 1LE is a turd, and can't hold a candle. It is damn close, and the price tags of the 1LE and the Boss make the 1LE the more appealing option, for me anyway.

^Well put :cheers:

What people are missing here is that this is a "package" option not a full new model like the BOSS. It seems like some people are seeing this as a whole new model to the lineup like what a Z28 would be or like what the ZL1 is.

Uhhhh.....no. BOSS still weighs less, handles better and has equal horsepower. BOSS will still kick it around the track.

Same suspension, and about 150+ hp less than a ZL1, which didn't exactly blow the Boss off the track. My guess is the Boss is faster, both in a straight line and around a road course, than the 1LE. The gap is much smaller though than the existing gap between the Boss and the SS (probably similar to the GT vs. SS arguments, with the Mustang winning again).

I agree that HP isn't everything, but you're now arguing the setup of a car on different tracks. Of course horsepower comes into play more on some tracks than others. A stock Miata can outrun a lot of vehicles if you put it on a small/complex enough track, but that's not to say the Miata is a better all around car. And I take nothing away from how amazing the new Magnetic Ride suspension is on the Chevy. The fact that is is coming stock on a lot of performance vehicles in the lineup is awesome from a consumer standpoint, but it doesn't always overcome the power/weight ratio on the Mustang. It depends on the track.

My stance is the Boss will out-perform the 1LE more often than not, assuming all other conditions equal (track conditions, driver, etc.). That's not to say that the 1LE is a turd, and can't hold a candle. It is damn close, and the price tags of the 1LE and the Boss make the 1LE the more appealing option, for me anyway.

The 1LE has already posted a sub 3 minute time at VIR. The Boss 302 Laguna seca model with comp r tires ran it in 3:02. If it is a true ~3 second difference...it will be blowing the doors off of a Boss.

This was not same driver same day...but impressive none the less. I am not sure if it will be faster or not...but I wouldnt count it out yet.

I wonder how long it will be before people can admit this chassis has a ton of potential? The ZL1 excuse was the horsepower...now what is the excuse? The 1LE is surely quite a bit slower than a Boss.

BTW...the standard FE4 suspension on the 2012 SS has not been tested on a track against a new mustang GT either...this should be interesting as well. In the last same day same track test of the 2010 SS vs 2011 GT by road and track at big willow the SS lost by .1 tenth of a second. 1:36.6 to 1:36.7. If they improved anything the SS will be faster.

The 1LE has already posted a sub 3 minute time at VIR. The Boss 302 Laguna seca model with comp r tires ran it in 3:02. If it is a true ~3 second difference...it will be blowing the doors off of a Boss.

This was not same driver same day...but impressive none the less. I am not sure if it will be faster or not...but I wouldnt count it out yet.

I wonder how long it will be before people can admit this chassis has a ton of potential? The ZL1 excuse was the horsepower...now what is the excuse? The 1LE is surely quite a bit slower than a Boss.

BTW...the standard FE4 suspension on the 2012 SS has not been tested on a track against a new mustang GT either...this should be interesting as well. In the last same day same track test of the 2010 SS vs 2011 GT by road and track at big willow the SS lost by .1 tenth of a second. 1:36.6 to 1:36.7. If they improved anything the SS will be faster.


i agree. the badmouthing of this car is getting old. fact is its a successful platform no matter who says what.


if you dont like it fine but to say its not getting the job done is ridiculous and many buyers will agree and thats what matters.

Wow, seems like it will be a very good car for the money. Went around VIR in under 3:00 supposedly, I have faith in it. The ZL1 is a disappointment to me, but it seems as if this will help them bounce back a bit.

Apparently not everyone is man enough to try or admit a four cylinder car purpose engineered to perform can and will outperform 4,000lb coupes based on a track. And for nearly half as much money brand new.

I own two recent LSX cars and find the FT86/BRZ very appealing.

Amen to this brother!

I recently drove a friends bolt on SRT8 charger and I had many mixed feelings about it. It was super badass to look at and the straight line performance was fantastic. But it was FAT FAT pig! The visibility sucked, and even thinking of trying to get this 4200lb monster around a corner terrified me, not that it couldn't do it... but I didn't WANT to do it. It didn't give the driver confident with all it's weight.

Then I got into my 98z and even though it wasn't as fast in a straight line, all the sudden the 3400lb made me feel like Muhammad Ali's feet.

I can only hope the ATS will be the future Camaro :secret2:

I wonder how long it will be before people can admit this chassis has a ton of potential? The ZL1 excuse was the horsepower...now what is the excuse? The 1LE is surely quite a bit slower than a Boss.

i agree. the badmouthing of this car is getting old. fact is its a successful platform no matter who says what.

Is the platform successful? Sure it is. Is it successful knowing full well the Alpha platform is coming soon to address the weight issue? No. The performance is relative. We can drop thousands of dollars into the suspension on a Tahoe, but that doesn't make it the ideal chassis for a race vehicle.

People look at the 5th Gen the same way they looked at the '04 GTO. Why get excited when the better version is right around the corner? I'm VERY excited just thinking about the LS3/TR6060 in an Alpha chassis with the Magnetic Ride suspension package. THAT will be a damn fast car that could possibly rival the ZL1 as it sits now.

if you dont like it fine but to say its not getting the job done is ridiculous and many buyers will agree and thats what matters.
This argument is stupid, and I'm so very tired of seeing it. The new Camaro is selling well because they are still rare. The Mustangs have not changed in looks significantly since the 2005 model year. That's 7 consecutive years (going on 8) of the same damn car on the lots. The Camaro is fresh. Some people buy cars for performance, many buy them for the "look at me" status, and THAT is what the Camaro currently provides. The Mustang is currently the better car (debatable, of course), but it isn't the fresh look that consumers want. Thus, Camaro outsells Mustang.

i agree. the badmouthing of this car is getting old. fact is its a successful platform no matter who says what.


if you dont like it fine but to say its not getting the job done is ridiculous and many buyers will agree and thats what matters.

I wish everyone thought like this. It's popular opinion to hate on the 5th gen. I think they're very cool.

Is the platform successful? Sure it is. Is it successful knowing full well the Alpha platform is coming soon to address the weight issue? No. The performance is relative. We can drop thousands of dollars into the suspension on a Tahoe, but that doesn't make it the ideal chassis for a race vehicle.Good points.
But by the same token the current Mustang platform isn't exactly an ideal starting point for an all around great handling car either, but they too have found a way to make it work quite well. :nod:

Can anyone enlighten me on the 6th Gen rumors? I dont follow the 5th Gens at all so Im never on Camaro5 or anything. This cars ok but Im still not sold on 5th Gens..

Can anyone enlighten me on the 6th Gen rumors? I dont follow the 5th Gens at all so Im never on Camaro5 or anything. This cars ok but Im still not sold on 5th Gens..

Current 6th Gen Rumors (That I Know Of...):
- Alpha platform (same as the new Cadillac ATS - rumored weight is about 3400lbs)
- Powered by the new direct injection version of the LS3 (called the "new" LT1)

Beyond that is all speculation. My guess is that it will somehow look similar to the current body style with a refreshed interior (keep an eye on the ATS for some insight there). I hope they make the Magnetic Ride suspension standard. If they do all of this and keep the weight under 3600, they have a beast on their hands.

Good points.
But by the same token the current Mustang platform isn't exactly an ideal starting point for an all around great handling car either, but they too have found a way to make it work quite well. :nod:

Completely agreed. The Mustang is far from ideal either, but Ford engineers are doing an amazing job of making it great. I think the Mustang is in serious trouble vs. the Camaro when the Alpha platform (6th Gen?) come out. We just don't know what Ford has waiting for the Mustang, but we do know what GM has coming for the Camaro. Thus my analogy to the '04 GTO. It is easier to dislike a vehicle when you know the better version is coming, addressing all of the issues that were disliked originally (namely, the weight).

Is the platform successful? Sure it is. Is it successful knowing full well the Alpha platform is coming soon to address the weight issue? No. The performance is relative. We can drop thousands of dollars into the suspension on a Tahoe, but that doesn't make it the ideal chassis for a race vehicle.

People look at the 5th Gen the same way they looked at the '04 GTO. Why get excited when the better version is right around the corner? I'm VERY excited just thinking about the LS3/TR6060 in an Alpha chassis with the Magnetic Ride suspension package. THAT will be a damn fast car that could possibly rival the ZL1 as it sits now.


This argument is stupid, and I'm so very tired of seeing it. The new Camaro is selling well because they are still rare. The Mustangs have not changed in looks significantly since the 2005 model year. That's 7 consecutive years (going on 8) of the same damn car on the lots. The Camaro is fresh. Some people buy cars for performance, many buy them for the "look at me" status, and THAT is what the Camaro currently provides. The Mustang is currently the better car (debatable, of course), but it isn't the fresh look that consumers want. Thus, Camaro outsells Mustang.


whats stupid is failing to admit GM made what people want and its leading its class in sales and defending that fact is getting old.

theres many cars people could buy that are comparable and theyre choosing 5th gens so you and others need to get over it already.

I wish everyone thought like this. It's popular opinion to hate on the 5th gen. I think they're very cool.

its not really popular. just on here it seems.


GM designed a 5th gen. to appeal to many buyers regardless of who they are.


people claim they see 5th gens everywhere as if new mustangs arent seen as much. please, i see just as many new 5.0s as i do new SSs everyday so if you like a mustang because its more exclusive you must be blind.

So that interior and infotainment crap is what Chevy thinks goes on a track model :confused:. Why is a stripped down balls to the wall performance car such a bad idea?

it seems to me that they've put together a pretty good package. they've done suspension work, and added the goofy shit inside that a lot of people want when they spend 40k on a car.
it looks good on the outside.....but they still need to de-uglify the interior. that instrument cluster would annoy the crap outta me.

great overall car, and it should be interesting to see what she does. they should've also given her a small bump in horsepower though.

Build sheet on camaro5 says 3849. Same as a 1SS.

Would have been nice if they added a little more power with a cam change to around 450hp. It is going to have a hard time against a Boss on most tracks with standard SS power.

Looks like GM is saving the extra power for 2015 and the new chassis.

i think they're banking on the extra grip keeping these out front.......

The 1LE has already posted a sub 3 minute time at VIR. The Boss 302 Laguna seca model with comp r tires ran it in 3:02. If it is a true ~3 second difference...it will be blowing the doors off of a Boss.

This was not same driver same day...but impressive none the less. I am not sure if it will be faster or not...but I wouldnt count it out yet.

I wonder how long it will be before people can admit this chassis has a ton of potential? The ZL1 excuse was the horsepower...now what is the excuse? The 1LE is surely quite a bit slower than a Boss.

BTW...the standard FE4 suspension on the 2012 SS has not been tested on a track against a new mustang GT either...this should be interesting as well. In the last same day same track test of the 2010 SS vs 2011 GT by road and track at big willow the SS lost by .1 tenth of a second. 1:36.6 to 1:36.7. If they improved anything the SS will be faster.


LOL this post if so full of BS I dont even know where to begin...

First of all, there is absolutely no PROOF it ran under the 3 minute mark other than Al O. saying it... Ford said it will beat the ZL1 around the track with its gt500. SO its a fact now right???:bang:

Second, the supposed 3 minute run would be a maf. run, meaning, like the ZL1, it was ran like 374 times before they got that time, whereas the Boss was ran by C&D I believe, in its first try... very different...


Also, the 1LE does not have the MRC that the ZL1 has am I correct? Also, what is the weight distribution for this tank? And finally, although Im positive the base Boss will beat theis, I will not proclaim it as truth until an independent source tracks them both head to head... we should all just wait

but for sure 302 boss motor>ls3 lol:engarde:

Just to set the record straight.....this this is gonna smoke the boss. I can't even see how anyone could think otherwise. Ls3>boss 302

this is exactly what they needed to do. it's what we were all talking about in the z28 thread.

this is exactly what they needed to do. it's what we were all talking about in the z28 thread.

+1

I still wish they would offer a few different final drive ratio options. Hopefully the new transmission gearing and 3.91 final really wake this heavy car up.

its not really popular. just on here it seems.


GM designed a 5th gen. to appeal to many buyers regardless of who they are.


people claim they see 5th gens everywhere as if new mustangs arent seen as much. please, i see just as many new 5.0s as i do new SSs everyday so if you like a mustang because its more exclusive you must be blind.

Im as die hard GM as it comes but ill have to say GMs really dropping the ball with the 5th gens. Styling is ok with me but the cost of a V8 is outrageous for younger buyers and too close for comfort to the price of a C6. Fords marketed a mean new 5.0 motor for a fraction of the cost Chevys wanting for a 5th gen. They shouldve offered a 5.3 option. This would at least allow for easier performance upgrading from an already huge market for these motors. And Ive already heard the 300+hp V6 argument and I still think V6s lame regardless of their numbers

Im as die hard GM as it comes but ill have to say GMs really dropping the ball with the 5th gens. Styling is ok with me but the cost of a V8 is outrageous for younger buyers and too close for comfort to the price of a C6. Fords marketed a mean new 5.0 motor for a fraction of the cost Chevys wanting for a 5th gen. They shouldve offered a 5.3 option. This would at least allow for easier performance upgrading from an already huge market for these motors. And Ive already heard the 300+hp V6 argument and I still think V6s lame regardless of their numbers

Where does this shit always come from?

Does anyone ever research things for themselves?

The msrp of the mustang and camaro are within ~2k of each other (like always). Even less than that if you add brembos to the gt which come standard on the SS.

The MSRP of a new SS is actually about the same deal or better as it used to be when you calculate for inflation. Especially considering a 1SS comes rather loaded as well. You cant order them stripped anymore.

Im as die hard GM as it comes but ill have to say GMs really dropping the ball with the 5th gens. Styling is ok with me but the cost of a V8 is outrageous for younger buyers and too close for comfort to the price of a C6. Fords marketed a mean new 5.0 motor for a fraction of the cost Chevys wanting for a 5th gen. They shouldve offered a 5.3 option. This would at least allow for easier performance upgrading from an already huge market for these motors. And Ive already heard the 300+hp V6 argument and I still think V6s lame regardless of their numbers

32k for a 425hp LS3 V8 is outrageous? Really?? What do you want it to cost? 20k? This isn't the 80s man sorry. Also they are not "close" to a c6 in price at all.

2012 SS starts at 32k
2012 C6 starts at 49k

Just to figure in the other cars

2013 5.0 starts at 30k
2012 SRT 8 starts at 44k
2012 RT starts at 30k

Like stated above you are also getting "more" features in a 1SS then you do with a base GT mustang.

+1

I still wish they would offer a few different final drive ratio options. Hopefully the new transmission gearing and 3.91 final really wake this heavy car up.

I THINK the 3.91 will wake it up a LOT more than anyone thinks.

i agree that they should offer different gearing options. i almost think they should offer an automatic option.....but if they're going after the boss302, then manual is fine. the whole thing is that todays buyers seem to like choices, even if they don't make the best choices......i also like the blacked out hood. silly little things like that make a huge difference too.

Where does this shit always come from?

Does anyone ever research things for themselves?

The msrp of the mustang and camaro are within ~2k of each other (like always). Even less than that if you add brembos to the gt which come standard on the SS.

The MSRP of a new SS is actually about the same deal or better as it used to be when you calculate for inflation. Especially considering a 1SS comes rather loaded as well. You cant order them stripped anymore.

correct....and if you decide you don't want bunches of options....you can have either for under 30k.

I THINK the 3.91 will wake it up a LOT more than anyone thinks.

i agree that they should offer different gearing options. i almost think they should offer an automatic option.....but if they're going after the boss302, then manual is fine. the whole thing is that todays buyers seem to like choices, even if they don't make the best choices......i also like the blacked out hood. silly little things like that make a huge difference too.

They need to offer these seats as an option with the 1LE package also.

http://images.automodifiedesign.com/2011/01/2012-Mustang-Boss-302-Interior-4-1024x640.jpg

i'm not so wure about that...a camaro would look awfully weird with boss302 labeled seats in it. :D

Yeah I don't know about the Boss 302 motor being far superior to the LS3, but maybe.
I think they're both awesome powerplants.

And I don't think either car will DESTROY the other around a road course, it could still be a somewhat close race with the Boss having a slight advantage over the 1LE (depending STRICTLY on the type of road course that it is).





this is exactly what they needed to do. it's what we were all talking about in the z28 thread.:werd: :nod:

32k for a 425hp LS3 V8 is outrageous?426hp actually. :D ;)

And yes the base model Camaro SS and base model Mustang GT can be had for under $30k with some haggling and are both INCREDIBLE performance car bargains in my opinion. :thumb:

its not really popular. just on here it seems.


Everywhere I post/read about cars on the internet it's full of kneejerk reactions from people who are easily swayed by other's opinions.

I can count on one hand the amount of stories I've read of people who bought one of the new muscle cars, decided they didn't like it an switched brands...because they're all nice cars, and in similar ways.

Yeah I don't know about the Boss 302 motor being far superior to the LS3, but maybe.
I think they're both awesome powerplants.

And I don't think either car will DESTROY the other around a road course, it could still be a somewhat close race with the Boss having a slight advantage over the 1LE (depending STRICTLY on the type of road course that it is).





:werd: :nod:

How can anyone say this???? If GM had a built/forged motor vs Ford's coated hypereutectic bottom end, and some idiot ford fanboy came on here and said that the Ford engine was better, you guys would have a meltdown....

Where does this shit always come from?

Does anyone ever research things for themselves?

The msrp of the mustang and camaro are within ~2k of each other (like always). Even less than that if you add brembos to the gt which come standard on the SS.

The MSRP of a new SS is actually about the same deal or better as it used to be when you calculate for inflation. Especially considering a 1SS comes rather loaded as well. You cant order them stripped anymore.

I havent been able to get a camaro priced below $35k. Mustang for just over $30k I have. Plus the finding a used 5.0 for around $24k isnt that hard to do. Camaros are another story however

I havent been able to get a camaro priced below $35k. Mustang for just over $30k I have. Plus the finding a used 5.0 for around $24k isnt that hard to do. Camaros are another story however

if you're going by the numbers on the build pages, you can't. my car showed as being nearly 38k on those pages. if it cost that much, i couldn't have gotten it.

most of the used 5 liters i'm seeing that are down in the 25k range are autos with nearly 20k miles on them. manuals with low miles are still in the 30's.

he's right. the price between these two are so close, that it cannot be considered a factor.



shit....i gotta come up with something bad to say about this car.......i'm sure there's a couple guys out there getting pissed off that they can't jump on my shit right now......:engarde:

I havent been able to get a camaro priced below $35k. Mustang for just over $30k I have. Plus the finding a used 5.0 for around $24k isnt that hard to do. Camaros are another story however

I paid msrp (they didnt offer deals when they first came out) and was at 33k out the door.

Several people have reported getting them for around 30k lately on a 1SS.

I havent been able to get a camaro priced below $35k.Right now, one should NOT have to pay more than $33,180.00 (MSRP = $32,280.00 base price plus $900.00 destination fee) for a brand new 2012 Camaro 1SS (a very well equipped car in standard 1SS trim). I have no doubts that one could work a deal to have that car for under $31k.

Im as die hard GM as it comes but ill have to say GMs really dropping the ball with the 5th gens. Styling is ok with me but the cost of a V8 is outrageous for younger buyers and too close for comfort to the price of a C6. Fords marketed a mean new 5.0 motor for a fraction of the cost Chevys wanting for a 5th gen. They shouldve offered a 5.3 option. This would at least allow for easier performance upgrading from an already huge market for these motors. And Ive already heard the 300+hp V6 argument and I still think V6s lame regardless of their numbers

i respectfully disagree as others have covered pricing is competitive between ford and chevy.


im also happen to see GM expanding a 5th gens lineup to compete in other areas as ford has done for so long.

I havent been able to get a camaro priced below $35k. Mustang for just over $30k I have. Plus the finding a used 5.0 for around $24k isnt that hard to do. Camaros are another story however

Thats a good thing then, means the Camaro is holding its value better then the Mustang.

negatory on that ghost rider. they both hold their value about the same.

negatory on that ghost rider. they both hold their value about the same.

Historically yes. But their have been articles written lately stating that the camaro is holding its value better than most all other domestic cars on the road right now. This is because it is in such high demand/so popular still I am betting. This was written about 6 months ago or so I suppose...but I bet it is still true.

A guy I know just sold his 2010 1SS M6 and got 30500 for it within like 1 week of putting it up for sale.

How can anyone say this???? If GM had a built/forged motor vs Ford's coated hypereutectic bottom end, and some idiot ford fanboy came on here and said that the Ford engine was better, you guys would have a meltdown....

The LS3 is physically smaller and lighter than the Boss 302, all while making the same power (ok 8 peak hp difference, whoopdy do) and much more torque.
To say the Boss 302 is "better" is much too vague, and honestly wrong.

The LS3 is physically smaller and lighter than the Boss 302, all while making the same power (ok 8 peak hp difference, whoopdy do) and much more torque.
To say the Boss 302 is "better" is much too vague, and honestly wrong.

Nothing vague about this at all. The Boss V8 is a purpose built forged track engine, LS3 is, well, a LS3. You guys been living under a rock?


2012 Ford Mustang Boss 302 engine delivers 444 horsepower and 380 lb.-ft. of torque without the aid of forced induction
Purpose-built Boss engine is based on production 2011 Mustang GT 5.0-liter DOHC V8, heavily modified with unique, Boss-specific parts to withstand all-day thrashing. They re-engineered an entire dynamometer cell to handle the engine’s 7,500 rpm redline; put the first engines into Boss 302R race cars and sent them straight onto the track; and they designed a torture test equivalent to running the Daytona 250 race flat-out more than 175 times – in a row.



Some of the Boss-specific parts contributing to the Boss 302 V8’s output and durability include:




Revised composite intake system with shorter runners, inspired by Daytona Prototype racing engines, for high-rpm breathing
Forged aluminum pistons and upgraded sinter-forged connecting rods for improved strength, needed for the higher combustion pressures and engine speeds New high-strength aluminum-alloy cylinder heads with fully CNC-machined ports and chambers for exceptional high-rpm airflow without sacrificing low-speed torque
Lightened valvetrain components to provide excellent dynamic performance up to speeds well above the engine redline
Sodium-filled exhaust valves for improved heat dissipation
Race-specification crankshaft main and rod bearings for higher load capability and improved high-speed durability
5W50 full-synthetic oil with engine oil cooler for improved oil pressure and longer-lasting lubrication during extreme racing conditions
Revised oil pan baffling for improved oil control under racing conditions and during cornering loads greater than 1.0 g

Nice post. Very good info about the Boss engine.

2012 Ford Mustang Boss 302 engine delivers 444 horsepower and 380 lb.-ft. of torque without the aid of forced inductionTrue, the Boss 302 motor is no joke. :cool:

The 2012 Chevrolet Camaro SS engine makes 426 horsepower and 420 lb.-ft. of torque without the aid of forced induction.

I paid 32 for my 1SS...20 months ago...
They can be had for the right price and that was a A6

Now I like the LS3, honestly I do NOT like the A6 even with its amazing 1st, 2nd gear
Tuning can be tricky

Honestly the Camaro SS handles better than the Mustang GT(cant compare a Boss) but most of us dont road race...we drag race and from what I've seen the GT is faster and modded its MUCH faster...I am a GM guy but the proof is there, just look at some of the times on there cars...I also think the GT really looks good, it just looks right, in the end pick the car u like but I gotta tell you I was REALLY dis-appointed with my Camaro and sold it 10 months later as did 3 of my friends who bought them and we r all GM guys...

In the end dare I say I am going to go to the darkside and jump ship in aug. I am buying a MUSTANG GT/CS, the car is fast and just looks right to me and mod for mod it cant be beat ;)

Nothing vague about this at all. The Boss V8 is a purpose built forged track engine, LS3 is, well, a LS3. You guys been living under a rock?

Cool story bro.
Still much to vague, is it better all around? No, certainly not.
The LS3 is still lighter, and smaller/more compact, and makes almost just as much power but way more torque.

I figured more people would be excited about the 1le.

No sense in arguing over motors...the cars they're saddled in are still 50% of the equation. There isn't a damn thing wrong with the LS3, just as there isn't a damn thing wrong with the new 5.0. The only issue holding the LS3 back in the current Camaro is the chassis its trying to push around. If that platform were a bit smaller and a couple hundred pounds lighter this wouldn't even be an argument.

And as far as which car is holding value better? Well the Camaro is still the more popular car at the moment...so it's no mystery as to why used specimens are selling for more than your average used 5.0. That's great news for current 5th gen owners and GM dealers...bad news for anyone wanting to get into a new Camaro without spending more than they need to.

I figured more people would be excited about the 1le.

actually, i'm excited about ALL of the american factory hot rods.

No sense in arguing over motors...the cars they're saddled in are still 50% of the equation. There isn't a damn thing wrong with the LS3, just as there isn't a damn thing wrong with the new 5.0. The only issue holding the LS3 back in the current Camaro is the chassis its trying to push around. If that platform were a bit smaller and a couple hundred pounds lighter this wouldn't even be an argument.

And as far as which car is holding value better? Well the Camaro is still the more popular car at the moment...so it's no mystery as to why used specimens are selling for more than your average used 5.0. That's great news for current 5th gen owners and GM dealers...bad news for anyone wanting to get into a new Camaro without spending more than they need to.

last year in sept., when i ordered my gt......i started off looking for used. used 6 speed manual gt's with less than 10k on them were anywhere from 30k to 34k, depending on options. bear in mind i wanted 2011, due to the 5 liter....i don't want nothin to do with the 4.6 liter as ford made it.
i could find automatic equipped gt's with nearly 20k on them for about 26k. i don't want an auto.
started looking at 2011 left overs. a local ford dealer(miller ford for those of you in nj) found me what i wanted for 33k. it had 6 miles on the odometer.
by the time i got approved for financing, and told them to get if for me(only a couple days), the dealer that had that one had taken a deposit.
marc, and chuck at miller worked with me. i got my 012, optioned slightly better than that leftover......for 34k and change. not too bad really.

This car will be faster with the 3:91 gear, on the quarter and on road track, which will make it faster than the stock gt, I think. For the track part, I'm not sure it will beat the Boss but it will give a hell of a fight!! I think its a great package for car enthousiasts, like most of us on this forum. If I was in the market for a 5th gen I'd be all over it. The fuel pump is nice for future mods!!! The appearance is cool too!!

The engine argument is kinda worthless for 2 engines making same power with great mod potential and durability...like its been said, the only inferiority of the 5th gen is the weight..

I just read the thread on Camaro5 and the trans ratio changed too, and its looks like the only gear that will be shorter are 3-4th. So not much improvement like a real 3:91 gear but the mpg stays the same in 5-6th gear..

Nothing vague about this at all. The Boss V8 is a purpose built forged track engine, LS3 is, well, a LS3. You guys been living under a rock?


2012 Ford Mustang Boss 302 engine delivers 444 horsepower and 380 lb.-ft. of torque without the aid of forced induction
Purpose-built Boss engine is based on production 2011 Mustang GT 5.0-liter DOHC V8, heavily modified with unique, Boss-specific parts to withstand all-day thrashing. They re-engineered an entire dynamometer cell to handle the engine’s 7,500 rpm redline; put the first engines into Boss 302R race cars and sent them straight onto the track; and they designed a torture test equivalent to running the Daytona 250 race flat-out more than 175 times – in a row.



Some of the Boss-specific parts contributing to the Boss 302 V8’s output and durability include:




Revised composite intake system with shorter runners, inspired by Daytona Prototype racing engines, for high-rpm breathing
Forged aluminum pistons and upgraded sinter-forged connecting rods for improved strength, needed for the higher combustion pressures and engine speeds New high-strength aluminum-alloy cylinder heads with fully CNC-machined ports and chambers for exceptional high-rpm airflow without sacrificing low-speed torque
Lightened valvetrain components to provide excellent dynamic performance up to speeds well above the engine redline
Sodium-filled exhaust valves for improved heat dissipation
Race-specification crankshaft main and rod bearings for higher load capability and improved high-speed durability
5W50 full-synthetic oil with engine oil cooler for improved oil pressure and longer-lasting lubrication during extreme racing conditions
Revised oil pan baffling for improved oil control under racing conditions and during cornering loads greater than 1.0 g


This is very pretty.

But no matter how you slice it...4 cams= G A Y.
Lt5 been there done that.
The LS engines simply breath just as well if not better all on one cam.
For DIY it is the better engine hands down.
For non DIY it is still the better engine as you could probably build the LS further to the tilt than you could a coyote.

Fugg 4 chains fugg 4 cams...to me it's a non roddable motor(a beast at that granted)but none the less....i would never open a fuggin valve cover on it.

Dont come with the whole u wouldnt need to nonsense....their's LS's making over 500 with just cam swap alone.

As for efficiency and lower liters sure the coyote is beastly. But for rodding purposes it's a step back. Who wants to swap out 4 cams?
GM went the other way after experimenting and has delivered quite nicely with their conclusion that it's just not worth the almost negligable power returns.
I dont want my engine that fancy....and that much work intensive involvement.

Also this isnt the first time Ford has forged out a bottom end in completion.

They are 2 very different motors. From what their fanbases find appealling in their traits one isnt necessarily more advanced than the others.
The LS top end for example being able to run against a DOHC setup just fine can be considered or argued as more advanced engineering in a OHV design.

Bottom line is for shade tree mechanics...i wouldnt want a dohc engine unless I planned to baby it to death and adorne my driveway. And as mileage would ramp up...i'd want out before the repair bills start swooping in.

Nothing will ever beat that badass shaking sound of a cammed LS engine...5.0 owned haha