Suspension & Brakes - Help me understand - my 02 Z28 and my friend's 02 Trans Am drive COMPLETELY different

Hey guys, need some help here. I have a 2002 Camaro Z28 M6. One of my closest friends has a 2002 Pontiac Trans Am. My Camaro has 23,000 miles.. his has 43,000 miles. Both have stock suspensions and similar bolt-ons. However, his car drives COMPLETELY different than mine. When I brake, accelerate or shift gears, everything in the drivetrain of my car is translated into the passenger compartment - the car feels very jumpy, sloshy and jerky. His car, by comparison, feels like a tank. Almost none of the drivetrain movement is transferred to the passenger compartment. While my car bucks and sloshes around when I shift or turn, his feels solid as a rock. It literally feels like driving two different cars with a different drivetrain and suspension. He drove mine and agreed. He noted he had a hard time shifting gears in my car because there was so much drivetrain "flop" versus his being predictably solid. I have found this to be true as well - there is so much drivetrain movement in my car that it is difficult to predict how it's going to act when shifting.

The only difference between our two cars suspension wise is that he has a front strut tower brace.

Does anyone have any idea what could make such a drastic difference? Worn out shocks? Motor/transmission mounts? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Forgot to add - both cars are M6, not just mine. The difference is felt in acceleration, definitely in shifting, and in braking. He remarked that hard braking in my car actually made him feel unsafe compared to his because it didn't feel stable.

with that low amount of miles i couldnt imagine anything being worn out. could something be loose on your car? maybe he has some work done that he doesnt want you to know about lol

Every car is different. Yours may have lower miles, but time is what wears out parts not exactly miles. Miles have a lot to with stuff, but a car that sits for ten years is just as bad as one that has 100,000 miles on it.

Has your car ever been wrecked?

Every car is different. Yours may have lower miles, but time is what wears out parts not exactly miles. Miles have a lot to with stuff, but a car that sits for ten years is just as bad as one that has 100,000 miles on it.

They both are 2002 models. so the time argument does not seem to apply here.

I would lean towards a motor or trans mount first, then look over the drivetrain and suspension components.

with that low amount of miles i couldnt imagine anything being worn out. could something be loose on your car? maybe he has some work done that he doesnt want you to know about lol

Haha! He's been a close friend for about 15 years, so definitely nothing like that going on. He seems just as baffled as I do.



Every car is different. Yours may have lower miles, but time is what wears out parts not exactly miles. Miles have a lot to with stuff, but a car that sits for ten years is just as bad as one that has 100,000 miles on it.

That's exactly what I've been thinking - I'm just curious what sitting for extended periods (which is what I'm assuming has happened to my car before I owned it) will wear out on these cars.


Has your car ever been wrecked?

Negative sir. Clean Carfax and physically inspected - no evidence of prior accidents, no frame damage or anything like that.

They both are 2002 models. so the time argument does not seem to apply here.

Exactly. They are about as close as you can get to comparing the same thing back to back. You would be amazed at the difference for what is supposed to be the same engine/tranny/suspension.


I would lean towards a motor or trans mount first, then look over the drivetrain and suspension components.

Thanks for the feedback. I'm going to have to do some research into signs that the mounts/suspension might be defective. Any tips for identifying problems?

That's exactly what I've been thinking - I'm just curious what sitting for extended periods (which is what I'm assuming has happened to my car before I owned it) will wear out on these cars.

Anything and everything rubber. Suspension bushings, ball joint seals, brake boots and seals, shock seals, shaft seals, etc. Then the lubricants can weep out or degrade over time. Exposue to the elements can acceleate this and the damage that comes with it.

Rev the engine and watch how far it rocks for motor mounts (which are notorious for failing on these cars) and gently lift the center of the trans (jack up under the belly) and see if it lifts off the tail of the trans off the trans crossmember (indicating a torn trans mount). Also check the condition of the torque arm bushing.

^ what 01ssreda4 said. The amount of abuse the car has seen could have something to do with it too. Abuse = broken trans mount, t/a mount, possible damaged stock t/a.

I can't say much about them riding different or handling different. I do have a weird racing story between a camaro Z28 and a WS6 though.

For starters a 2001 camaro Z28-headers(not sure which type), catback, short throw shifter, CAI, different rear end gears(cnt remember specifically) and some type of tune.
VS.
2001 T/A WS6- clear lid, KN filter. A4

I could ride in either car and it was hard to tell any difference. I always thought the Z28 was stronger downlow, but butt dyno is not very accurate and its been a long ass time.

They decide to race. No passenger in the Z28 and with me in the WS6.
At no speed or RPM did that Z28 hang with that WS6. At the time I prolly weighed 240lbs. Maybe more. It was way before I lost a buncha weight.
The WS6 would pull 1-2 cars no matter where we started from. Dig, roll 30mph up, started at 70mph, it did not matter.
You would think this was a shifting issue with the M6, but it just was not. We were all good friends I rode in that Z28 all the time. Raced a lot of cars in it. Never once did the guy miss a shift. Maybe the WS6 was a factory freak? idk I could see the WS6's ram air making a difference at highway speeds, but even from a dig that Z28 just wouldn't do it. If I remeber correctly the Z28 had around 50,000miles on it. The WS6 had maybe 20,000miles on it.
I do remember how crazy fast that WS6 was on top end(interstate speed). That thing would hit 135mph like nothing.

The funniest thing was it was a total of 3 brothers. The last one had a 96 mustang GT. rofl.... At the time I had a 92 RS with a 305TBI(super clean car).
The GT would barely edge out my RS(pass me at like 50mph'ish). The LS1 would just dominate the GT. Embarrass it.

The first LS1 I ever rode in was the 01 WS6. I think I was 17yrs old at the time. I knew from that day that I was going to have a LS1. They ended up moving away and a few years later I upgraded to a 91 GTA WS6 (L98 TPI 5.7)
While I am writing this essay I will tell you about it and racing LS1 and LT1's.
My GTA was just completely tuned up and all fluid/filters changed,homemade CAI, shift kit, cats cut off and aftermarket muffler(not FM). I would run LS1's all the time cruising around in Benton. We are talking little light to light races. Nothing where the LS1 could really get up and scream like they do. I would always leave them off the line. I would think "Oh, Boy! I got'em". By the time I would shift into 2nd and go a lil ways they would just pass by.
Now on to the LT1 race. My same GTA WS6 all the same lil mods vs 95 T/A LT1 straight pipes and homemade CAI and a A4 with what I am assuming a 2.73rear end gear. While the LT1 would just humiliate me on the interstate it wasn't really all that from like 0-70mph. That LT1 would always pass me somewhere from 55ish up. However, when I rode in that car it felt so much faster than my GTA. At any speed.

OP: As far as his car feeling tighter than yours. IDK. My car has way more miles on it than either and its also older. I can say that after I replaced all my front end bushings, new ball joints, tie rods, and bushings in the rear and aftermarket LCA's, my car feels like a "tank" compared to what it did feel like. I also have poly motor mounts.

The grass is always greener on the other side.

speaking of rattles and looseness of a cars interior. My 91 GTA I spoke of had like 189,000 miles on it(around that).

Friend had a 89 IROC with around 125,000 miles on it when he got it.

That IROC had more rattles on the inside than my GTA did. Everything freakin rattled in it. While the GTA was pretty damn tight. Just 2yrs difference, but I think its more of a where the car has been drove(crap roads/dirt roads). I would've thought with 60,000 miles less on the IROC it would've road tighter.

While that 92RS I had was tighter than both. Around 135,000 miles on it. I think it mainly was driven on the interstate though.

have you checked what type of shocks are under the car? Are both decarbons, bilsteins, or some other aftermarket brand? The difference between decarbons (the crappy orange and black colored shocks) and bilsteins (blue and yellow) are night and day and since neither of you sounds like original owners you never know what someone else used.

Rev the engine and watch how far it rocks for motor mounts (which are notorious for failing on these cars) and gently lift the center of the trans (jack up under the belly) and see if it lifts off the tail of the trans off the trans crossmember (indicating a torn trans mount). Also check the condition of the torque arm bushing.

Just took a couple videos. Had the e-brake up and gave it a hefty amount of gas back and forth several times - each time I was giving it enough throttle to smoke the tires in first gear. Didn't seem to want to rev real high with the brakes on of course. Doesn't look like a ton of movement to me for hard throttle, but then again I'm not sure exactly what's normal, either. Can you guys take a look for me?


Video 1
http://youtu.be/aJUg60YS934

Video 2
http://youtu.be/sxINElz2VVQ

Thanks so much for all the help!!

By the way, replacing the transmission mount with an OEM A.C. Delco unit on Thursday. The problem is definitely the worst when shifting gears, so I'm hoping that will help.

I've seen suspension components on these cars crap out relatively quickly. I agree with the trans mount being a good place to start.

If you have anyone else around you with an fbody, take a ride in that and see how it compares. That could help dictate if your car is performing poorly, or his is above average. Hopefully the trans mount fixes the issue though, report back after the install and let us know how it goes.

Thanks for the feedback, guys. Can you guys take a look at the videos I posted a few posts up to see if that looks normal?? Thanks a bunch.

In addition to the videos above, I also took the following two videos (slightly different angles, but still terrible shots, I know) while performing the test that 01ssreda4 mentioned. I actually started a separate thread so that people who haven't been following this thread can see them, but I would highly value the feedback of several of you that have posted:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQ44h4llnQw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGUWQeOjE-c

Once again, I know the angle was terrible, but the video was shot at night and I was completely blind to what I was filming at the time lol. What do you guys think? Do you see the cracks that run the length of the side of the mount? Do they look significant or are they not since they aren't in the meat of the mount?

have you checked what type of shocks are under the car? Are both decarbons, bilsteins, or some other aftermarket brand? The difference between decarbons (the crappy orange and black colored shocks) and bilsteins (blue and yellow) are night and day and since neither of you sounds like original owners you never know what someone else used.

Yes, this was one of my first thoughts. We both have the decarbons (black and orange crap), both have the stock clutch/hydraulics and stock motor mounts. I'm not seeing anything on his car that suggests the suspension has been upgraded, although it isn't impossible. He knows quite a bit about f-body's (has had one since the late 90s) and swears up and down that nothing on his car has been modified on the suspension, other than the strut tower brace.

The second video you posted with the tranny mount looks like a tear.

Being that both cars are 10 years old, there could be a number of things that could just be old, worn, or broken. It's probably fairly random. You may just need some basic maintenance done to your car. Between brakes, driveline, suspension, you might just have to start inspecting certain things one by one.

All the examples above just prove that Pontiacs are better than Chevys. :D J/k, you can't always tell visually that a tranny mount is bad. My tranny was smacking the tunnel on hard shifts. When I removed the mount, it looked completely fine. Replacing it solved the problem.

front sway bar end links. bet one is broken.

Hey guys, thanks so much for all the feedback. Swapping the engine mounts today with the Prothane 7-512 ones and the transmission mount with a brand new OEM unit. Here's hoping it solves the problem! If not, I will start checking out some of the other suggestions you have made. I'll post this evening with an update.

Hey guys, thanks so much for all the feedback. Swapping the engine mounts today with the Prothane 7-512 ones and the transmission mount with a brand new OEM unit. Here's hoping it solves the problem! If not, I will start checking out some of the other suggestions you have made. I'll post this evening with an update.

In my opinion you can't go wrong with prothane endlinks. I think it drives fine. It's a Camaro.. it's supposed to be loud and obnoxious!

Update - transmission mount has been replaced and it's about a 5% improvement. Enough to where I can notice if I'm really looking for it, but if you had replaced it and not told me, I probably never would have noticed the difference. The shop I was gonna have do the motor mounts backed out on me.. said they would need to reschedule me and then claimed they needed to "cut" the old motor mounts out and as such they would have to charge me 2 extra hours of labor to do the job.. so $370 on just labor. No thanks! I don't have the time/equipment needed to do the job myself, so I'm gonna see if I can find somebody else to swap those motor mounts for me.

One thing you might try to completely eliminate differences between the individual motors is to just put both cars in neutral and push them on the same surface. If one takes significantly more effort to push than the other one, there's something mis-aligned, bent, or broken somewhere and it is still working "good enough" but is robbing you of horsepower.

It's simple and eliminates variables and only takes a few minutes to do, just a thought.

One thing you might try to completely eliminate differences between the individual motors is to just put both cars in neutral and push them on the same surface. If one takes significantly more effort to push than the other one, there's something mis-aligned, bent, or broken somewhere and it is still working "good enough" but is robbing you of horsepower.

It's simple and eliminates variables and only takes a few minutes to do, just a thought.

That's an excellent idea - I will try that!

Another update - found out there is actually a shop here locally with a few guys that specialize working on LSX cars. One of the guys test drove it and said he thought it was a combination of the U-joints and torque arm bushing. He said the engine mounts were in great shape compared to what he's used to seeing, so glad I didn't drop the money on those after all. I'm gonna go ahead and have them do the work for me on Monday to address those issues - price was very reasonable. Hopefully that will make things a little better. He also offered to make a list of things he sees suspension wise that look like they need replacing once they start working on the car in case I want to have it done in the future. I'll post an update after it's been completed.

why not throw your head up under the car and look at all 4 end links. if one of them is broke the car will drive like trash.

why not throw your head up under the car and look at all 4 end links. if one of them is broke the car will drive like trash.

I will definitely do this. I haven't noticed anything wrong with the end links before when I've been underneath, but haven't paid super close attention.

I like rubber end links on the front because our roads around here are crap. Smoothed out the front end a ton over the polys the car had on it when I bought it. I don't like the beat you up feel over bumps at all. Really I pretty much hate all poly bushings for a street car. I dunno why I have any of them. Each has degraded the ride some when they are installed.

I like rubber end links on the front because our roads around here are crap. Smoothed out the front end a ton over the polys the car had on it when I bought it. I don't like the beat you up feel over bumps at all. Really I pretty much hate all poly bushings for a street car. I dunno why I have any of them. Each has degraded the ride some when they are installed.Interesting ... of course, the suspensions are different, but I've never noticed any increased harshness installing poly sway bar enlink and mount bushings on GM A-bodies. Definitely tightened up responsiveness though. My f-bodies still have OE. And it seems like it would only come into play when there's compression, i.e., when the car is turning.

The near-universal critique of poly trans mounts for inducing vibrations definitely steered me from trying one of those when I replaced it on my M6 Formula last week.

A broken end link will just act like there's no swaybar there.

A broken mount is a different story.. broken front mounts are common due to the flimsy stock design. I had a broken mount and it caused some serious handling issues. I had a set boxed since then.

A broken end link will just act like there's no swaybar there.

A broken mount is a different story.. broken front mounts are common due to the flimsy stock design. I had a broken mount and it caused some serious handling issues. I had a set boxed since then.


to clarify, if their is ONE broken link, it will act really weird. if their are two broken links it will act like their isnt one there.

to clarify, if their is ONE broken link, it will act really weird. if their are two broken links it will act like their isnt one there.

I thought it would act like there is no bar there. With one endlink gone, the other link causes the bar to twist around in it's mounts, essentially not having any effect on the car.

Unless I'm wrong maybe.. if the bar contacted any part of the body, or caused some wierd resistance in the mounts then you'd have strange driving behavior.

If you disconnect both endlinks and left it in the mounts, wouldn't the bar dangle on the ground?

I thought it would act like there is no bar there. With one endlink gone, the other link causes the bar to twist around in it's mounts, essentially not having any effect on the car.

Unless I'm wrong maybe.. if the bar contacted any part of the body, or caused some wierd resistance in the mounts then you'd have strange driving behavior.

If you disconnect both endlinks and left it in the mounts, wouldn't the bar dangle on the ground?


if both links are disconnected, the car drives .. well you know, it sways a lot.

if ONE end is disconnected, say the left side, the right side upon movement up and down will twist the bar in their mounts yes, but it will also try and leverage it against the frame. i could see causing all kinds of weird behavior.

Ss/ws6 came with different suspension than the z28 I know one difference was sway bar size the ss/ws6 was I believe a 32/19 combo front and rear aupposed to something like 30/17 on the z I could be completely wrong maybe that's one direction to look a little deeper in on

Ss/ws6 came with different suspension than the z28 I know one difference was sway bar size the ss/ws6 was I believe a 32/19 combo front and rear aupposed to something like 30/17 on the z I could be completely wrong maybe that's one direction to look a little deeper in on

I thought about this at first as well, but we are both just regular Z28 and Trans Am - no SS or WS6 package. We both have the regular "SUSPENSION, RIDE HANDLING" RPO code, so the suspensions are identical. Thanks for the feedback!

Tires make a big difference also. Are the same tires on both cars. And isaw someone else bring up the shocks the ws6 has the better shocks.

I only have this to offer:

My first 98 Trans am didn't have inspiring handling to say the least. When I changed tires, it was night and day. Sure, it likely needed new shocks too - but simply new tires made a ridiculous difference, to the point where I'm wondering if the previous set was simply damaged.

The grass is always greener on the other side.

Not unless you water your own grass.:D

Tires make a big difference also. Are the same tires on both cars. And isaw someone else bring up the shocks the ws6 has the better shocks.

I only have this to offer:

My first 98 Trans am didn't have inspiring handling to say the least. When I changed tires, it was night and day. Sure, it likely needed new shocks too - but simply new tires made a ridiculous difference, to the point where I'm wondering if the previous set was simply damaged.

I'm about 99% sure that the tires that are on this vehicle are the original tires from 2002. I haven't thought about that, but I guess 10 year old tires are probably not the strongest performers, even if they have a decent amount of remaining tread. I don't really have the money for a brand new set of tires at the moment, but I will likely look into this soon enough.

Got my car back today after having the U-Joints replaced - and I will say this has made a big difference in shifting. Before, if I tried to shift quickly or I didn't get the shifts just right with the gas and clutch, the car would kinda "clunk" into gear. While the U-Joints didn't make my issues as a whole disappear, they have definitely made shifting more normal. I can now shift quickly without much issue, whereas before that was nearly impossible.

Edit: After driving the car like this for a week, the improvement is really a marginal one in shifting - the rest of the issues I mentioned still remain.

So had a chance tonight to finally really look over everything on the underside of both of our cars. Honestly, I'm just stumped. Both cars have identical factory suspension (and the black/orange decarbons), which all seem to be in perfect working order. Both cars have stock transmission mounts and engine mounts. Every piece of rubber underneath both cars honestly looks just fine - for the most part, all the rubber is still soft and fresh looking. The rubber doesn't appear to be dried out at all. On my car, I did find one small partial crack in one of the tiny LCA bushings that sits behind a bolt, but nothing serious at all.

The tie rod ends on my car look just fine. I tried the test that someone mentioned about getting the front tires up in the air and trying to move them side to side and front to back - they are both rock solid.

The only thing different is the wheels/tires. I have confirmed that my tires were in fact manufactured partway through 2001 (which sounds about right for a 2002 car). They have about half the tread life remaining and while the sidewalls have a TINY amount of surface cracking on a spot or two if you look really closely, they honestly seem to be in good shape. However, as nasty96 and ghostintheshell mentioned, they may be the difference maker. In the next couple of days, we are going to put both cars up on jack stands and swap his wheels/tires onto my car to see if that's the problem.

Anyone else have any ideas? I'm honestly running out of stuff to check here. Thanks a ton.

DEcarbons are really crappy shocks im hoping for you that it does turn out to be the wheels/tires. You've got a lot of effort into this and I have some troubleshooting to do on mine.

The only other thing I can tell u is for me becuz I lowered it a little I plan to measure the pinion angles...to make sure I may not be be off to try and cure a vibe i get while driving.
This measured using an angle tool u can pick up at home depot but you have to be under the car while it sits on all fours for example at the alignment shop.If this is off you would pick up vibing and instabilities....and it sure can be off from factory.

The other thing is my car responds strange on hard braking which someone told me could be air in the brake lines. Try some hard breaking see if it stops evenly....mine does not seem to. And i will be rebleeding very soon. Good luck. And dont throw money at the problem keep going for the freebies...its likely you'll find it and it wont be any of the rubbers you inspected.

Rule out both antisway bars by measuring eachs thickness with a dial caliper.
You never know if what your picking up is due to him having thicker units as already mentioned....even tho he is not WS6 just rule it out with a simple dial caliper measurement.

DEcarbons are really crappy shocks im hoping for you that it does turn out to be the wheels/tires. You've got a lot of effort into this and I have some troubleshooting to do on mine.

The only other thing I can tell u is for me becuz I lowered it a little I plan to measure the pinion angles...to make sure I may not be be off to try and cure a vibe i get while driving.
This measured using an angle tool u can pick up at home depot but you have to be under the car while it sits on all fours for example at the alignment shop.If this is off you would pick up vibing and instabilities....and it sure can be off from factory.

The other thing is my car responds strange on hard braking which someone told me could be air in the brake lines. Try some hard breaking see if it stops evenly....mine does not seem to. And i will be rebleeding very soon. Good luck. And dont throw money at the problem keep going for the freebies...its likely you'll find it and it wont be any of the rubbers you inspected.

Rule out both antisway bars by measuring eachs thickness with a dial caliper.
You never know if what your picking up is due to him having thicker units as already mentioned....even tho he is not WS6 just rule it out with a simple dial caliper measurement.

License2Ill, I never even thought about the pinion angle, and I have seen that come up in other posts. I just read a primer on how to check it, but I guess the problem is finding a way to actually get under the car to check it with a loaded suspension. Maybe if the wheels/tires from his car seem to make a big difference and I go ahead and buy new ones, an alignment shop will let me stand underneath it while they align it?

As for braking, yeah mine doesn't seem to stop evenly either. The car kinda seems to walk around a little bit under braking, especially hard braking that isn't quite 100% to the floor. However, I have already bled the braking system and replaced it with Dot 3/4 synthetic brake fluid. It didn't seem to make any difference unfortunately. :mad:

I will say that the anti-sway bars looked identical between the two cars - when I got underneath his car, it was like looking at mine all over again. I didn't check the actually diameter, but I'm confident the suspension on both is identical. We both have the same RPO code to confirm he doesn't have an upgraded WS6 or better suspension.

At this point, if somebody told me OK, here's your problem, it's going to cost $1500 to fix it - I would pay it in a second. It is getting very old trying to chase down phantom issues and throwing money at the car with no results. :bang: Luckily, there doesn't seem to be much left to check - I'm hoping that the wheels/tires somehow miraculously fix the issue. I'm a bit skeptical that it will fix things, but I should know very soon! Thanks again for your post and good luck to you also. :chug:

You mentioned that a mechanic recommended a torque arm mount, but I never saw anything about you actually replacing it. A great deal of driveline slop can be traced back to a worn torque arm mount. It is something that you would notice shifting and braking because it will cause the diff to rotate forward and backward more than normal. I would replace it to rule it out.

You mentioned that a mechanic recommended a torque arm mount, but I never saw anything about you actually replacing it. A great deal of driveline slop can be traced back to a worn torque arm mount. It is something that you would notice shifting and braking because it will cause the diff to rotate forward and backward more than normal. I would replace it to rule it out.

MTN Z, I'm glad you mentioned this because I forgot to mention it on the last post. The mechanic was actually going to replace my torque arm mount, but got underneath the car and said it was in great shape so he didn't do it. I looked at it myself the other night and he's right - it looks like it's in great shape. Rubber is still soft and doesn't appear cracked whatsoever - just as good a shape as my friend's car.

I can't find any evidence underneath the car that the rubber bushings or mounts on my car are in bad shape whatsoever. Everything looks great, actually. If there is a way other than simply replacing them to test these things, someone please let me know. Thanks!

License2Ill, I never even thought about the pinion angle, and I have seen that come up in other posts. I just read a primer on how to check it, but I guess the problem is finding a way to actually get under the car to check it with a loaded suspension. Maybe if the wheels/tires from his car seem to make a big difference and I go ahead and buy new ones, an alignment shop will let me stand underneath it while they align it?

As for braking, yeah mine doesn't seem to stop evenly either. The car kinda seems to walk around a little bit under braking, especially hard braking that isn't quite 100% to the floor. However, I have already bled the braking system and replaced it with Dot 3/4 synthetic brake fluid. It didn't seem to make any difference unfortunately. :mad:

I will say that the anti-sway bars looked identical between the two cars - when I got underneath his car, it was like looking at mine all over again. I didn't check the actually diameter, but I'm confident the suspension on both is identical. We both have the same RPO code to confirm he doesn't have an upgraded WS6 or better suspension.

At this point, if somebody told me OK, here's your problem, it's going to cost $1500 to fix it - I would pay it in a second. It is getting very old trying to chase down phantom issues and throwing money at the car with no results. :bang: Luckily, there doesn't seem to be much left to check - I'm hoping that the wheels/tires somehow miraculously fix the issue. I'm a bit skeptical that it will fix things, but I should know very soon! Thanks again for your post and good luck to you also. :chug:

Hey man the alignment shop will let u go back there if you just walk over slowly from the outside and the shop manager isnt in the back..make some small talk w/the guy...and don't trip over chit...you could also just ask to take a quick measurement.

If your not braking evenly then you have a brakes/caliper type issue which sucks and is hard to troubleshoot but you have to address it. Its a danger 1. and 2 it could very well be the culprit of what your disagreeing with.

The sway bars would only have mm of differences so a glance or even close look over may still leave differences undetected....remember: i think stock is 30mm then ws6 bars are 32mm...see what im saying? very small... i know that your guy isnt a ws6 but swaps happen sometimes....so does early alzheimers....just ask me...."who? what? " :jest:

To clarify a little what I meant to write earlier about the Decarbon shocks sucking is that he could have more miles and you could have less....but yours could still be blown and his might not be....especially without knowing (kind of like fun women)the many places the car has travelled thru and bumpy roads they've endured. So what im saying is you could have some multiple blown shocks.

Now on the subject of the torque arm mount not to contradict mtnz but the point of the torque arm plays a role in preload for the rearend or something to that effect...its not designed to control or aid in deflection/mounting or tieing down against vibration. But anyone is open to correct this if Im wrong. Just wanting to keep info proper. #2 as some proof is that the rear end is held in place by the trailing arms and the trailing arms would do the job of contradicting forward and aft motion...or as the suggestion offers overmotion.....to look closer would be to end that with if the bushing on the trailing arms are toasted then you would end up with the kind of sloppyness mtnz was talking about. I could be off on the name lca's or lower control arms(rear) ...sorry.

One more thing i watched your videos and the motor mounts do seem to have some play...its not ridiculous amount and they may not be toasted or torn...but they are offering some scoot...maybe more than say some new...but im no expert there either and its tuff to see 100%.

Fix the brakes...check the rear bushings.....research some more on the engine mounts. I'm following a similar plan becuz I have a vibe and slightly lowered i think my pinion angles are off...but something is up with my brakes too.
I think in your case it may end up being the engine mounts it really cannot be anything more.....
The engine and tranny are bolted tight together...the tranny is supported by tranny mount(you replaced) and the engine is held in place by the engine mounts. There's not much more. If your description to us is 100% that the driveline and your shifter seems to be all over the place. then the last and only thing left if all else is good would be the eninge mounts.

Now if you've got a misfire that's making your stuff tremble as u change gears...or out of 1st...then none of the above will cure that. And your slop is not driveline related but engine derived.

Id look into the torque arm mount bushing closer. Its inside a clamshell so its hard to tell what kind of shape it actually is in. When i replaced my lower mileage one with the energy suspension bushing it looked fine on the outside but once i opened it up it was in crappy shape inside. Besides its a great upgrade for 15bucks for your car and it will also rule one more part out in your search.

License2Ill, thanks for all the feedback - I appreciate it. The brakes definitely need to be replaced, but braking isn't really my main complaint at the moment. I will say that your analysis may have some validity, as the rear of the car seems to be where all the harshness is coming from. The front suspension seems to dampen things OK... it's when the back of the car goes over bumps that everything inside starts shaking like hell, LOL. The way we had the car jacked up the other night gave me less access to the rear underside of the car, so I will definitely be checking that out.

I owe a lot to my friend who owns the comparison vehicle - I am very new to these cars and to working on cars in general, although I am pretty intelligent and think I have a good idea how everything works, even if it means I can't take them apart in my sleep. However, my friend is the type that can do exactly that, so he ends up doing the majority of the work to the car when we work on it. Tomorrow night, we are installing a Tick adjustable master cylinder and bleeding/refilling the fluid to try and address some intermittent shifting issues I'm having. If that doesn't work, we are going to replace the slave cylinder next weekend. While we're at it tomorrow, we are also going to take the C6 Z06 wheels and close to new Bridgestone tires off his car and putting them on mine temporarily - to try and identify the tires as being a difference maker. I'll be sure and post the results.

05MBMLS2, for $15, you're right - that's too hard to pass up. Where did you get your T/A bushing? And is it stock rubber or poly?

05MBMLS2, for $15, you're right - that's too hard to pass up. Where did you get your T/A bushing? And is it stock rubber or poly?

Its the poly one, I got it right from summit racing. You can get it from tons of different vendors. Just verify your torque arm lip direction and get the proper one in either red or black.

Big update - Tick Master Cylinder COMPLETELY fixed the excessive drivetrain motion and shifting issues I was having. I wasn't having any of your typical f-body master cylinder problems.. no trouble with 1st/Reverse, no trouble at high RPM shifts (quite the opposite, actually).. but after the install, the drivetrain literally feels 5x more firm. I don't know how to explain it.

Swapping the wheels/tires didn't do much - made a marginal improvement in handling and dampening, at best. Looks like there is no rush to replace the tires. His vehicle still does a far better job dampening bumps and bruises on the road, but must be elsewhere in the suspension. I didn't get a chance to look over the rear suspension bushings thoroughly tonight, but I'll do that as soon as possible. Even with this being said, that Tick Master literally improved the problem 60%. Amazing. I'll update with more information on the suspension as I get it!

Arent the TA seats more cushioned than the z28 seats? Seats will make a difference in what you feel in ride quality too. Shocks and springs are more important but that's also part of it.

Arent the TA seats more cushioned than the z28 seats? Seats will make a difference in what you feel in ride quality too. Shocks and springs are more important but that's also part of it.

Sorry for the delay - I'm realizing more and more that this is very much correct. The seats in my buddy's Trans Am have WAY more cushion in them and are much thicker in several places than my Camaro seats. Now that I compare them, the Camaro seats look like something GM pulled out of a warehouse at Wal-Mart. Doesn't seem like a big deal initially, but those thicker cushions do shield you a good bit more from the bumps and bruises that are transmitted to the cabin. I'm ultimately going to go with some more plush aftermarket Corbeau seats.

Update to this thread: swapped the stock DeCarbons for Bilsteins, problems mentioned were largely unchanged. However, a close friend swapped my pads/rotors for me yesterday. Found out that one of the guide pins on the driver front rotor was fused to the surrounding metal and not allowing the pad to move freely. It looks like the pad on the inside of the rotor was making intermittent contact, because as soon as the brakes were replaced, the ride of the car improved significantly. Previously, the car acted unpredictable. Sometimes it needed more throttle than usual to start in 1st or to shift smoothly, it would pull just slightly when shifting gears, and braking would cause the car to pull ever so slightly. I didn't suspect dragging brakes because I didn't smell brakes and didn't have any horrible problems braking - it was just enough to make the car feel "off". Interesting development. For those of you that haven't replaced your brakes in a while, definitely something to check out.

My car still doesn't ride quite as nice as his, but I plan to replace all my suspension bushings with Moog replacements soon. I am willing to bet this will be the rest of the difference.