Generation IV Internal Engine - ABSOLUTE best heads for stroked ls2 (COME ON IN)




SUPAFASTSS
04-02-2012, 11:33 AM
Im in the process of building a 402 motor and im wanting to know what the absolute best heads are, iv been looking at...i have a 102 fast as of now and my car is a lightweight auto

-TEA trickflow 245
-TEA trickflow 235
-MAST motorsports

Price is not a concern, I race my car a TON so i want the best/most powerful i can get.

I have looked into both the trickflows but i really dont know what MAST has to offer. im thinking im staying around 11.5 CR for 93 since i do drive my car. But im not afraid of "street maners" as some call it because its not a daily...thanks


Tainted
04-02-2012, 01:25 PM
Personally id go for the mast. They look killer :nod:

ws602
04-02-2012, 01:30 PM
Allpro


ZGLASS
04-02-2012, 02:15 PM
I run a small bore ls7 head on mine.

oldguy99Z
04-02-2012, 02:56 PM
You say your building a 402 so you only have a 4"bore right? Better check those Trick Flow heads for their minimum bore required.I believe the 235's require a 4.03" bore and the 245's bigger yet.Those heads have bigger valves so it might be a problem but it could be that they fit but aren't recommended because of valve schrouding.A ls7 type head would be good but it will have to be a small bore version like zglass has.

silver2010
04-02-2012, 04:13 PM
I run the Mast black label heads. My bore is 4.125 so you need the small bore version. Check out Mastmotorsports.com

djfury05
04-02-2012, 04:46 PM
small bore Mast or Allpros

litle88
04-02-2012, 05:13 PM
Can't beat ported Ls3's for the money. LPE has theirs for 1500 shipped and assembled lol. Hard to pass that up.

RoidedSS
04-02-2012, 05:50 PM
if price isn't an option, I'd agree with djfury, mast or allpro

scphilli
04-02-2012, 06:32 PM
What style fast 102 do you have (LS1/LS2, LS3, or LS7)? You'll want a set of heads that match or you'll be needing a new intake.

The1N_only
04-02-2012, 10:05 PM
Bang for the buck I would say TFS 245's and just guessing... The would best fit your application.

SUPAFASTSS
04-02-2012, 11:09 PM
I have a cathedral port 102 ported by tony mamo, ill have it portmatched to a set of heads i get if i stay cathedral...so i thought MAST and ALLPRO were the same??? so how are mast better than trickflow i called mast once and asked for their flow numbers and looked on TEA website and the trickflows flowed better (they say)....

what mast would i get what are they called?

gectek
04-02-2012, 11:59 PM
I would not get the mast. There are a few issues that you have to address that IMO should not need to be addressed.

My vote so far and every time is Trick Flow. Although a 245 head would be a bit large, the 225 or 235 would be the best bet. If you want even more out of them, I am sure TEA could spruce them up a bit more for you.

BigRich954RR
04-03-2012, 05:18 AM
i have the TFS 245 on a 427 love them for a 402 i would stay 235 if boosted maybe 245 or reving really high

EDS ZO6
04-03-2012, 06:56 AM
Allpro

SUPAFASTSS
04-03-2012, 08:39 AM
I would not get the mast. There are a few issues that you have to address that IMO should not need to be addressed.

My vote so far and every time is Trick Flow. Although a 245 head would be a bit large, the 225 or 235 would be the best bet. If you want even more out of them, I am sure TEA could spruce them up a bit more for you.

What "issues" need to be addressed?

KILLERARMY
04-03-2012, 10:41 AM
WCCH All Pro

SUPAFASTSS
04-03-2012, 10:57 AM
I just called allpro and there "DRAGPORT" heads is what we discussed

they are flowing 355 at .600
and on exhaust 248 at .600

they have a 2.125 intake valve and a 1.625 exhaust



then i looked at the TEA Trickflow 235s and they are flowing

343 intake
276 exhaust with 2.080 intake and 1.600 exhaust valves



it looks like the trickflows are smaller valves and flowing around the same numbers on intake and better on exhaust...with a smaller valve which would probably be better on a 4in. bore

CAMSTER
04-03-2012, 09:15 PM
Are for ls2 the small bores are for ls1...
Designed for any new Gen IV short-block with 4.000" bore or larger

The 6-Bolt design is compatible with GM LSX and World LSX blocks
Accepts Gen IV LS3 valvetrain and intake manifolds.
Uses a 2.165" intake valve and 1.600" exhaust valve
Has a 256cc intake port
Has a 69cc combustion chamber standard
Has a deck thickness of .750"

Each Mast Black Label cylinder head assembly includes:

A fully CNC machined Mast Black Label aluminum cylinder head
Mast nitrided & micro finished .650 lift beehive valve spring

Then get the hollow steam SS intakes upgrade, get the 6 bolts head even if you are not using them, cost is the same, and are further re-enforced, by the added busses, and have better resale value, then if you still have the block outside, have some one weld the receiver busses, on the out side of the block to bolt the 5th...you'l be glad you did..

gectek
04-04-2012, 07:11 PM
What "issues" need to be addressed?

Quite a bit longer spark plugs wires, like going to at least the truck style MSDs. Then there is the problem of their holes in the heads that line up with the stands on the intakes are too small and you have to grind all the stands off save for the 2 metal ones. They work.

There are a few others, but those are the biggest 2.

gto_ua
04-05-2012, 07:12 AM
MAST LS2 245cc is your choice if you have FAST LSXR LS2 and 402 engine

SteelCityMaro
04-05-2012, 08:14 AM
You can never go worng with WCCH stage 3 L92 head

n20kid
04-05-2012, 09:46 AM
MAST LS2 245cc is your choice if you have FAST LSXR LS2 and 402 engine

+1 on this.. MAST FTW!!

crossbreed383
04-05-2012, 10:15 AM
People need to stop looking at cc numbers and flow numbers, and look at cross section and valve size for a given displacemant
A TFS 245 head is the perfect size if not a little small for a 400 in motor

I run a TEA 245 head on my 408
Been 9.90 n/a in Denver at close to 8000ft of d/a :eek2:
15 % converter slippage
Only 12 passes so far with absolutley zero timing or jet changes
Id think theres some left in it working the bugs out :)
Car would run low 9.20s at sea level as it sits
Dont under estimate the correct cathedral port
I see alot of square port motors but very few perform where it counts(off the dyno)!

Jason 98 TA
04-05-2012, 10:23 AM
You should look at proven performers & dyno results. Checkout the Hot Rod magazine article on cathedral head shootouts.

The PRC 237 head moved the most amount of total airflow side by side & was the only head that kept gaining power & didn't fall off on the dyno at higher rpm.

The PRC 237 heads feature .675" springs standard & manley valves!! :)

The1N_only
04-06-2012, 10:26 AM
People need to stop looking at cc numbers and flow numbers, and look at cross section and valve size for a given displacemant
A TFS 245 head is the perfect size if not a little small for a 400 in motor

I run a TEA 245 head on my 408
Been 9.90 n/a in Denver at close to 8000ft of d/a :eek2:
15 % converter slippage
Only 12 passes so far with absolutley zero timing or jet changes
Id think theres some left in it working the bugs out :)
Car would run low 9.20s at sea level as it sits
Dont under estimate the correct cathedral port
I see alot of square port motors but very few perform where it counts(off the dyno)!

BINGO! LS7 stuff does ok... I have yet to see LS3/L98 stuff really perform. The exhaust ports just don't flow.

gectek
04-06-2012, 06:22 PM
BINGO! LS7 stuff does ok... I have yet to see LS3/L98 stuff really perform. The exhaust ports just don't flow.

Then you sure have not looked very hard, or looked at all.

RENE'S RAGE
04-08-2012, 11:23 AM
Call Brian Tooley, he will set you up with some custom Trickflow heads.
Probably some 235's, for your bore.
I've always used TEA TF heads, but this time around I used the Mast 245 Cathedral Ports on my 418, just to try something different.
Both are very nice heads.

Black FormulaLs1
04-08-2012, 11:32 AM
i would PM the vendors here and see what they can offer you once you have given them make, model, EXACT engine build specs and what the car is used for.. or look on GM Hightech, GMPP, CHP, Car Craft, dont rush to build it..do it once but DO IT RIGHT..and there are quite a few books on ebay for the exact engine build you are referring to and it has part #'s and exact breakdown of whats in the engine to coincide with the dyno numbers etc.. JMO i dont have a blank check to work with but since cost is not important to you then i would still do my homework first!!!

The1N_only
04-08-2012, 05:43 PM
Then you sure have not looked very hard, or looked at all.

Really guy? Maybe you need to open your :eek2: because stock casting head just don't perform. Be my guess and run a set if stock ported LS3 casting heads and be disappointed just like 95% of the people on here... But hey you cant know it all when you are swinging from other peoples nuts :sack:

I would run a cathedral port head until you start getting into a big cubic inch motor or turning a lot of RPM where you can take advantage of the port volume. In saying that I wouldn't even consider LS3 heads and go straight for a set of All Pro LS7 or MAST. Its that simple.

gectek
04-08-2012, 08:18 PM
Really guy? Maybe you need to open your :eek2: because stock casting head just don't perform. Be my guess and run a set if stock ported LS3 casting heads and be disappointed just like 95% of the people on here... But hey you cant know it all when you are swinging from other peoples nuts :sack:

I would run a cathedral port head until you start getting into a big cubic inch motor or turning a lot of RPM where you can take advantage of the port volume. In saying that I wouldn't even consider LS3 heads and go straight for a set of All Pro LS7 or MAST. Its that simple.

http://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamometer-results-comparisons/1484230-new-dyno-numbers-ls3-427-ceta.html

Maybe I have no idea what I am talking about.....hmmm

Not swinging on any nutsack here. Maybe you need to take the balls out of your mouth before you start to spout your BS. Thanks

Also if you want to talk port volume then you are retarded. Stock LS3 head 260cc in stock unported form. Most aftermarket Cathedral port heads 245cc max. Port volume has a small part, but honestly not a huge factor in the "how a head performs" equation.

The1N_only
04-08-2012, 09:16 PM
http://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamometer-results-comparisons/1484230-new-dyno-numbers-ls3-427-ceta.html

Maybe I have no idea what I am talking about.....hmmm

Not swinging on any nutsack here. Maybe you need to take the balls out of your mouth before you start to spout your BS. Thanks

Also if you want to talk port volume then you are retarded. Stock LS3 head 260cc in stock unported form. Most aftermarket Cathedral port heads 245cc max. Port volume has a small part, but honestly not a huge factor in the "how a head performs" equation.

Dude your the idiot with your blanket statements, swinging from the nuts of someone else... besides you missed my point. If you don't have an engine that can take advantage of the larger port volume the car will feel lazy in the lower RPM range due to lack of port velocity. The bigger the cubic inch and high the RPM the more these square port heads will shine, With the proper cam. There is a reason I choose a Trick flow 245 head for my engine. The torque curve and throttle response is amazing. If i was building it for a race car I would have went with the WCCH All Pro head. There are so many more things to consider when choosing a head when you build an engine... Which I'm sure you know nothing about. I am a fan of anything that supports the growth of our LS platform

Right now on the market the absolute best head on the marker is the MAST MOZES head but it doesn't fit the OP application

OP just consult one of the many sponsors on here to point you in the right direction so you will not be disappointed bu misguided advice by armatures at best. Internet geniuses never cease to amaze me.

The1N_only
04-08-2012, 09:21 PM
http://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamometer-results-comparisons/1484230-new-dyno-numbers-ls3-427-ceta.html

Maybe I have no idea what I am talking about.....hmmm

Not swinging on any nutsack here. Maybe you need to take the balls out of your mouth before you start to spout your BS. Thanks

Also if you want to talk port volume then you are retarded. Stock LS3 head 260cc in stock unported form. Most aftermarket Cathedral port heads 245cc max. Port volume has a small part, but honestly not a huge factor in the "how a head performs" equation.

Oh and my little 245 cathedral port heads out flow most ls3 stuff out there with just a valve job. TEA, MAST offer larger than a 245 port if that's what your looking for.

gectek
04-08-2012, 09:24 PM
I said nothing about flow sir. I quoted you to your port volume. And FYI WCCH has a set of stock casting LS3 heads that will flow over 370 on the intake with their port work.

If you do not believe what I say, then maybe you should read in the dyno forum a bit more with LS3 heads. You are sunk in the same muck that the rest of the old school guys seem to be with saying that such a large runner will cause mush in the lower rpm.

You said NOTHING about the LS3 head only working on larger engines before, now you change your tune.

PS you're the one that brought nuts into the subject, so that makes me question why you are arguing with me in the first place....

The1N_only
04-08-2012, 09:29 PM
no need in arguing... you already know it all. Have a nice Easter or whats let of it

gectek
04-08-2012, 09:31 PM
I sure do not know it all, but how can you argue with the man?
http://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamometer-results-comparisons/1123842-ls2-l92-heads-makes-460rwhp-446rwtq.html

There is one post where even Pat G is impressed with them.

I can go on, but your vast knowledge of the LS3 top end swap combos is sure to prove me wrong.

The1N_only
04-09-2012, 02:20 PM
Really guy? Maybe you need to open your :eek2: because stock casting head just don't perform. Be my guess and run a set if stock ported LS3 casting heads and be disappointed just like 95% of the people on here... But hey you cant know it all when you are swinging from other peoples nuts :sack:

I would run a cathedral port head until you start getting into a big cubic inch motor or turning a lot of RPM where you can take advantage of the port volume. In saying that I wouldn't even consider LS3 heads and go straight for a set of All Pro LS7 or MAST. Its that simple.

Hey jack ass maybe you should read my post again. New school, old school engine dynamics are the same. Efficiency and the correct combination on parts is key.

SUPAFASTSS
04-09-2012, 04:08 PM
EASY guys, Anyway back on topic thanks for the info on the Medium bore heads they are the same size valves as trickflow 235....what does the 245 mean on teh MAST i have no clue what that number means....Im wondering why when i called MAST they said the Large bore was what i wanted? it had HUGE valves and seemed rediculous to put that big of a head on it....

It seems like the medium bore is about the same as the 235 trickflow except its a 245 (which idont know what means) so im going to further look into them id really like a MAST head but everyone i have talked to at Mast has given me different info !!

odarabla
04-09-2012, 04:28 PM
I am running some worked up trick flow 215cnc heads on my LS2 402ci.
I would recommened either the TrickFlow or the AllPros..

The1N_only
04-09-2012, 04:47 PM
the number such as 235, 245 ect is the port volume of the intake runner. There are some very reputable sponsors/shops on here that will be able to guide you based on your needs and requirements. Right now all anything knows is the head is going on a 402 ci motor. What do you plan on doing... Road race, Drag race, or a pure pure street car. Do you need a pump gas set up or will it be ran on nothing but race gas? There is a lot of variables that need to taken into account for when putting an engine combo.

gectek
04-09-2012, 07:56 PM
For a head that would fit all applications like a beast, get Trick Flow.

The1N_only
04-09-2012, 08:40 PM
For a head that would fit all applications like a beast, get Trick Flow.

Since you like to quote Pat G...

http://ls1tech.com/forums/15292549-post5.html

gectek
04-09-2012, 08:57 PM
I knew about that post and thread as well. You are showing me nothing new. He had stock heads on it before, he went with Tony Mamo specials. There is no comparison there. He also went with an aftermarket camshaft instead of the stock one he dyno'd with as well as a cathedral FAST ported by Tony Mamo. Maybe you should read the comparo before you post it up all smug like.

With all those parts that are ALOT more money than the heads that came on there unported, you would hope they would show something. Hell he still had the DOD on there as well in stock form.

He made a blanket statement that is not entirely true either with the "it dynos higher than ported LS3 headed 6.0 combos". His made nearly 400 with just the stock cam unported heads and an out of the box fast. I am sure that 500 would be no problem with a cam that fit the heads, which he sure could do, a ported LS3 fast and ported LS3 heads.

LSxPwrDZ
04-09-2012, 10:37 PM
Trickflow! Fastest LSx in the world runs 235's. Not seen any Mast stuff here locally run worth a damn. Same with tsp stuff.