Cadillac CTS-V - V1, how much HP to hit 10.9?

10.9 is a goal of mine with the V, and I'm curious if any one has a ball park of what HP # it would take to do it. No weight reduction, and yes I know an 8.8 or 9' is instore.

Also I know of the many factors involved, altitude, tires etc etc
I guess Im looking for who has actually hit the 10's in a V1 and what it took.

:corn:

Minimum of 700 I'd say...

Minimum of 700 I'd say...

wheel or engine?

To get in the 10's i'd say a solid rear axle would be a better choice than an upgraded IRS. Wheelhop will kill the 60ft times needed to make those ET's.

has anyone put a solid axle in a V1?
and I just googled a HP+weight=ET calculator and at 4000 pounds it said 610 HP. In a perfect world.

Wheel...

And the 8.8 isn't bad. Wheelhops a bit still but I'm sure a BMR wheelhop bar and bushings would fix that. Much less wheel hop than stock either way! Solid axel is great for the track but the IRS allows the car to keep a nice ride and good handling

Considering this isn't a perfect world... I'd say closer to what I said. Given these cars have a hard time getting out of the hole, you'll need the extra power/torque.

My car making 550 ran a best of 11.8 on street tires when my buddy ran it. That was with a shitty 60 foot because it was prior to the built rear. With the 8.8 rear and some good tires, should go 11.5 now.

Considering this isn't a perfect world... I'd say closer to what I said. Given these cars have a hard time getting out of the hole, you'll need the extra power/torque.

My car making 550 ran a best of 11.8 on street tires when my buddy ran it. That was with a shitty 60 foot because it was prior to the built rear. With the 8.8 rear and some good tires, should go 11.5 now.

what does your car put down before the spray? also what size shot are you running to hit 550? and I see you have the 4.10's outback which will def help lower ET

N/A it made 430. After tuning it on the conservative side and pulling some timing for the nitrous, it makes 418 n/a. I'm running a 150 shot.

has anyone put a solid axle in a V1?
and I just googled a HP+weight=ET calculator and at 4000 pounds it said 610 HP. In a perfect world.

It's been done, but I wouldn't attempt it. As mentioned above it would really hurt the car's overall handling and ride quality. I think there was a guy who did an LS7 swap with a solid rear conversion a couple years ago. Don't know where the car is now..

SRA> any IRS in the V. Witht he right suspension the SRA might suprise you with ride quality. I say with some weight out of the car, a SRA, and 550rwhp it could go 10s on a great pass. But is it worth the money?

Hmm... Makes me wanna strip mine for a trip to the track just to see if I can get a pass in the 10's! Lol it would have to have some ridiculous tires and about a 1.5 60 foot to do it though.

I think with some ported 243's, 1.7 rockers, fast intake, bigger TB, 160* stat, UD pulley and a retune, my car should make around 470rwhp n/a. I'd spend the money on some nice AFR's or trickflows but I'm pretty sure gains over the stage 2.5 243's will be minimal for the price. The 150 shot on that will put me over 600rwhp. I'd almost be tempted to go with a 175 shot which is the max my current NX kit will go but I don't wanna blow it up... YET. Lol

Only other thing i'd need is a driveshaft cause I doubt the stock one will hold up with that power and some sticky tires.

OP, everyone is right. To get into the 10s, with out any real risk, you will need a SRA. There are guys here with 600+ whp, and they are in the mid 11s. Its trying to get this pig off the line that kills are ETs. And I have never seen anyone put a SRA in a V1. But the real question is, like itsslow98 said, will in be worth the amount of money required to get in there? I would love to see someone put an SRA in a V1. But I never will, because I am not spending another dime for mods on my car, haha. Since there is none (that I know of) that have done it, you will more then likely be be looking at easily $10,000+ to put a built SRA in there.


Taylor, what is your Fuel System like? If you are still running the stock one, I would look into a boost-a-pump or a new intake pump. Especially if you really plan on doing all of what you listed, the stock one will be maxed and you will not see the real power potential of those mods plus the 175 shot of happy gas.

A V2 will run 10's with the stock IRS...with no mods. Has anyone looked at the real difference between the V1 and V2 rear sub-frame assemblies?

A V2 will run 10's with the stock IRS...with no mods. Has anyone looked at the real difference between the V1 and V2 rear sub-frame assemblies?

the difference is that GMPD decided to sit down and design the V2 properly...

the V1 design session probably consisted of the following...

Engineer 1: "We need to make the CTS faster. What can we do?"
Engineer 2: "Not sure...lets see..."
Engineer 3: "We got a bunch a LS6s and T56s laying around in Bowling Green...lets stick that in there."
Engineer 2: "What about the rest of the car? Will it fit? Will have have to adjust anything else?"
Engineer 1: "Those are good questions."
Engineer 3: "I GOT IT! Soltice Differential and new plastic molds! Fuck it, were done, lets go have a glass of wine and some crackers."
Engineer 1 and 2: "Lets...job well done team."

Haha Cole...probably a fair account of what actually went down. I am interested in 10's also but think the 8.8 kit with poly rear frame mounts and softer rear shock valving would be the way to go over f'ing with an SRA install. I think a V1 in the 10's would be awesome...everyone knows what a V2 can do and us V1 guys are looked down on for it IMO.

Just wish I had time to get in the damn shop now.

LOL @ ur engineering discussion post. haha

Fuel system is stock at the moment. That the other reason why i dont plan to go any bigger with the shot until later and even then, it will only be a 175. Right now, the A/F is straight across at a consistent 11.4 my buddy said so its not stressing at what its making. To make more, ill need a minimum of a boost a pump if not a bigger fuel system all together.

A V2 will run 10's with the stock IRS...with no mods. Has anyone looked at the real difference between the V1 and V2 rear sub-frame assemblies?

That's a fair question. There's a lot of heavily modded V1s that will spank V2s from a roll so I'm curious if it's rear track/rubber/gearing etc issues that prevent the V1 from getting those numbers. IRS differences aside.

I know we have a handful of owners that have pretty stout V1s and have done the geforce rear or cs 8.8 upgrade. Why have we not seen time slips on these? Surely a few of them have gone to the strip. What is the hold up? It's been long enough already.

Pretty sure the madman rear is a solid axel setup right? For just $6k you can have it. lol

My 8.8 should hold up just fine. Not planning on making 1000hp with this thing.

I know we have a handful of owners that have pretty stout V1s and have done the geforce rear or cs 8.8 upgrade. Why have we not seen time slips on these? Surely a few of them have gone to the strip. What is the hold up? It's been long enough already.

Yeah, I'm beginning to think it's not that the V1 is not capable but that folks are just to fearful even after 'stouting up' their rears.

Someone with a TVS/whipple/200 shot/big angry block needs to take the V1 for a spin.

Ill be tracking mine soon. Really haven't driven it much since i got it. Just trying to get the rest of the stuff i want so i can get it tuned and everything is turn key the way i want it.

once my rearend goes in ill let you know if 549 rwhp does it lol

solid mounts, stiffen up the rear suspension, upgrade the rear end,a strong clutch and slicks and i dont see it being to difficult its just a question of how much do you really want to put into the car.

Pretty sure the madman rear is a solid axel setup right? For just $6k you can have it. lol

My 8.8 should hold up just fine. Not planning on making 1000hp with this thing.

The Madman rear was IRS IIRC...and he does not offer it any more, I think. And when he was offering it, it was $7,500 plus $1,500 for install.

Your 8.8 will be good into the mid 600s. After that, it will start having issues. All you got to do is look at the 03-04 Cobras. Those guys start swapping to a solid axle at that point, if not before.

Unlike in the cobras, we ***cant*** just bolt up a solid rear axle. The mustang conversion is pretty much if not straight on bolt in swap.

I would think that the money required to buy a V1, get the clutch, driveshaft, rear end, trailing arms and wider rear (widened or aftermarket) rims then get the power out of the motor to go that fast, the money gets close to the cost of a V2, unless picking up a now decently priced high mileage v at like 14k, which will need alot of that work and then some anyways due to wear.

I am sure that a ten second V1 is possible, I would be willing to say that most guys get to the point of frustation at all the mods required and say screw it.

I love the way the V1 looks, and just drove an '09, and dont care for the mirrors and the ricaros i dont see being comfortable for a long trip, no side to side room for legs either.

Back to the point, when building the motor might as well get ample fuel system, forged big C.I. and some big spray if not turbo or maggie. Still be prepared for a big hit in the wallet.


Whatever you think you are going to need, build for 100 HP more to over come bad 60' time and you could make it.

Since ET is primarily the result of traction not to soon to address the tire issue after making sure there is enough HP and the rear end is beefed up enough to handle the hard launches you will need to run a good 60' in an effort to get into the 10's.

A 10.9 in a V1 is quite a goal and would be quite an achievement, IMO.

Best of luck.

Cole... I have all of what u said other than an aftermarket driveshaft. I dont see anything breaking anytime soon. Once i hit the 600 mark... ill be happy. Not trying to make it a race car. I just want it fast enough to beat most stuff on the street and be a nice running daily.

Cole... I have all of what u said other than an aftermarket driveshaft. I dont see anything breaking anytime soon. Once i hit the 600 mark... ill be happy. Not trying to make it a race car. I just want it fast enough to beat most stuff on the street and be a nice running daily.

I call bull shit buddy...haha.

Lol! 600 is plenty in this car

IDK people skydivers car is tuned to the max w a rear and I havent seen 10's from him so...

IDK people skydivers car is tuned to the max w a rear and I havent seen 10's from him so...

I haven't seen ANY recent times from skydiver, but i'd like to.

Neversatisfied, shoot me a PM when you are heading to the track.

there will be a solid axle in my v1 hopefully by the end of the year. i will have a full documented write up done with pictures and everything done step by step. hopefully, if my builder lets me hahaha. either way there will be finished product pictures fo sho.

new motor should be done by end of the month. we will see how long it takes the stock IV gen dif will last hahahahahaha.

U doing a solid axel 8.8 conversion or a ford 9"? It can be done. Someone with some fabrication/welding skills could make it work. Would just take some time to measure, build brackets and fit it all as u go. If anything ever happens to my current rear (if I even still own the car by then), I'll prob go that route.

after riding in PISNUOFF's 418 stroker V this weekend, I'm unsure how anyone can accidentally break a 4th gen differential. I'm sure if you wheel hopped the fuck out of it and didn't feather the clutch at all, it'll explode, but we were going all sorts of sideways and it just took it, and not a clunk. if I pop my 2nd or 3rd gen (not sure which I have), i'll either be going 8.8 or stock gen 4.

U doing a solid axel 8.8 conversion or a ford 9"? It can be done. Someone with some fabrication/welding skills could make it work. Would just take some time to measure, build brackets and fit it all as u go. If anything ever happens to my current rear (if I even still own the car by then), I'll prob go that route.

ill be going solid built ford 9" with a 4 link setup

never satisfied maybe you should look into something like this to help aid traction since you already have the 8.8 diff
seems to work for the gto guys
http://www.bmrsuspension.com/?page=products&vehicleid=7&maincatid=74&catid=215

I know its obvious, but a beefier rear end is a must. So 8.8 or 9" has anyone broke one in their V?

Then lets go with weight reduction. Where can we trim some fat off these cars? I know that if you were just going to the track for some good times I would take out everything I could I.E. the passenger seat and rear seat etc etc. So lets see, lighter clutch assembly, lighter tires/wheels, hood? exhuast, 1/2 tank of fuel, CAI, anything to drop a pound helps really. Hitting the treadmill. So what other ideas might drop some weight?

Also, you all seem so negative about it and how much $ it would take to get a V1 into the 10's. I dont see it that way, other than putting in the rear end (ok thats 5k you would not spend on other cars) the mods are essentially the same. If I was building a fast GTO/Camaro/Vette etc. I would take a very similar route with building the motor/clutch/trans. So I dont see a huge difference with cost. I know I would not have to build a 600 hp 408 to get either of the above cars to hit 10 seconds, but I would :D

I agree, other thatn the glass ass in these cars, the rest of the mods are the same. The GTos are having their own share of rearend problems too. I am biuting the bullet now on the rearend and maybe if I keep the car I will start in on hte motor in about 6 months or so by starting to pick up all the parts to build a dropin LS7, and keep my motor intact incase...

I am not a big time drag racer, dont mind some street runs in the right environment from a roll, but I still would like to see a V! in the 10s. I hope you do it and post a video to all others to show you were first.

I know its obvious, but a beefier rear end is a must. So 8.8 or 9" has anyone broke one in their V?

Then lets go with weight reduction. Where can we trim some fat off these cars? I know that if you were just going to the track for some good times I would take out everything I could I.E. the passenger seat and rear seat etc etc. So lets see, lighter clutch assembly, lighter tires/wheels, hood? exhuast, 1/2 tank of fuel, CAI, anything to drop a pound helps really. Hitting the treadmill. So what other ideas might drop some weight?

Also, you all seem so negative about it and how much $ it would take to get a V1 into the 10's. I dont see it that way, other than putting in the rear end (ok thats 5k you would not spend on other cars) the mods are essentially the same. If I was building a fast GTO/Camaro/Vette etc. I would take a very similar route with building the motor/clutch/trans. So I dont see a huge difference with cost. I know I would not have to build a 600 hp 408 to get either of the above cars to hit 10 seconds, but I would :D

You pretty much nailed what you can do to reduce the weight of the V1. I believe you can also take out the truck lining a spare tire tub.

Getting a V1 in the 10s would be nice. My negativity comes from the amount of money it cost to make a high 12s car. With my power, a GTO will run low to mid 12s, but I would be lucky to hit 12.7x. The V1 and GTO are VERY similar in weight, with the GTO weighing about 50lbs (curb) less then us. The V chasis just is not designed for running the 1/4, its ment to go around the bends. All you have to do is look at a time slip from a V1. 2.0-2.2 60', with ETs in the mid to high 12s. But the Trap Speed is at a level that would indicate a low 12 or high 11 pass. Wheel hop will kill us every time out of the gate, but a good SRA would solve that.

One other thing that keeps me from modding to death is: that its a Cadillac. I bought the car from comfort and cruising. The lengths I would have to go to in order to have a 10s V1, takes away most of the reason I bought the car. I never intended on turning it in a trailer queen. I would a nice, fun, and somewhat fast car, that could be a DD. Which is why I am looking to move on to a C6 Z06 or maybe a V2.

The newer version diffs are pretty strong but they wont take the beating for too long when you're putting some serious power to the ground with good traction. I doubt ill have an issue with my 8.8. Its a solid setup. Only thing i'd change is upgrade the driveshaft when this one goes and get something to completely kill the wheelhop. It still hops every now and then.

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one tryin to take a v1 into uncharted territory. I too am going for 10's actually ive got my eyes set on 9's but good to see someone else isn't just giving up bc it's perfect and isn't afraid if spending some coIn to get it there. I hope you get that 10 man as I hope I do too. Should be a blast!!!

Unlike in the cobras, we can just bolt up a solid rear axle. The mustang conversion is pretty much if not straight on bolt in swap.

I don't follow. I am not aware of a bolt in kit for the V. I mean, I think it would be laborintensicve, but nothing a Mig, a ruler and a plumb bob can't fix.

Neversatisfied, shoot me a PM when you are heading to the track.

This. I live almost 2 whole minutes from the track.

there will be a solid axle in my v1 hopefully by the end of the year. i will have a full documented write up done with pictures and everything done step by step. hopefully, if my builder lets me hahaha. either way there will be finished product pictures fo sho.

new motor should be done by end of the month. we will see how long it takes the stock IV gen dif will last hahahahahaha.

Can't wait for this.

Anyone know what the wms to wms on the back of a V1 is?

Considering this isn't a perfect world... I'd say closer to what I said. Given these cars have a hard time getting out of the hole, you'll need the extra power/torque.

My car making 550 ran a best of 11.8 on street tires when my buddy ran it. That was with a shitty 60 foot because it was prior to the built rear. With the 8.8 rear and some good tires, should go 11.5 now.

What kind of MPH are you trapping in the quarter?

[QUOTE=54inches;16164727]I don't follow. I am not aware of a bolt in kit for the V. I mean, I think it would be laborintensicve, but nothing a Mig, a ruler and a plumb bob can't fix.



I menat to say cant, not can

I ran high 11's with my ws6 with bolt ons, stall, radials, cam, and stock suspension. not sure if the V weighs that much more, but 550 at the wheels oughtta be low 11's even with that weight. guess it depends on how horrid the suspension is.

I ran high 11's with my ws6 with bolt ons, stall, radials, cam, and stock suspension. not sure if the V weighs that much more, but 550 at the wheels oughtta be low 11's even with that weight. guess it depends on how horrid the suspension is.

Says the F-Body moron that knows jack shit about the V1...

Read this (http://ls1tech.com/forums/cadillac-cts-v/1336075-cadillac-cts-v-section-1-4-mile-time-list.html)...and seach the section about trying to get the V1 IRS to hook properly...before you say anything else retarded.

Haha that's too funny

I think his second sentence took the retarded out of the first statement. He's right to think the power to weight should get you to those times, but admittedly he wasn't sure how bad the suspension was (for drag).

Only thing i'd change is upgrade the driveshaft when this one goes and get something to completely kill the wheelhop.

Look into the Drive Shaft Shop Driveshaft for our cars. I have the carbon fiber version and its been great!

Yeah, but upgrading the driveshaft basically puts a limit to your top speed before you encounter ridiculous vibrations and possible driveshaft failure. I'm unsure on what exact limit is, but I've seen somewhere around 130-140.

V1 would probably need 800whp and some sort of rear cradle, axles, and diff forged out of Wolverine's bones.

Yeah, but upgrading the driveshaft basically puts a limit to your top speed before you encounter ridiculous vibrations and possible driveshaft failure. I'm unsure on what exact limit is, but I've seen somewhere around 130-140.

V1 would probably need 800whp and some sort of rear cradle, axles, and diff forged out of Wolverine's bones.

you can upgrade to a 2 piece driveshaft which uses a U-joint. You can also do a carbon fiber 1 piece which is rated 210mph only the aluminum 1 piece is rate to 140mph

Yeah, but upgrading the driveshaft basically puts a limit to your top speed before you encounter ridiculous vibrations and possible driveshaft failure. I'm unsure on what exact limit is, but I've seen somewhere around 130-140.

V1 would probably need 800whp and some sort of rear cradle, axles, and diff forged out of Wolverine's bones.

Skydiver is over 850rwhp on a mustang dyno, should ask him if thats enough for 10's.

Skydiver is over 850rwhp on a mustang dyno, should ask him if thats enough for 10's.

In 09, he landed somewhere at 11.6 with a cast on and traction issues. I have no ideas what his mods were, and if he ever went again \ put up a new time. Definitely would be interested though. It should be 10 seconds at over 850whp IMO.

Yes, the aluminum version is rated for 150MPH critical speed. The Carbon Version is over 250MPH

There was a post from Frank one time on the 150MPH critical speed issue and said

There is a "Safety factor" built into this equation, keep in mind that the numbers shown are the SAE ratings for Critical speed. This being said its a Theoretical number. No one has taken shafts and run them until they break to get this reading. its a Calculated number based on the natural frequency of the material being used. That being said there are allot of other factors to consider when calculating this number. Critical speed is a altered buy several things, one being the level of balance. we are balancing this on a machine that we can run the shaft up to 9500Rpm or with in 20% of critical speed (witch ever comes first) most balancers will spin at a very low speed like a tire balancer and will only account for the weight centerline. this machine is able to spin the shaft to real world speeds and we are able to see exactly what goes on at those speeds. If the u-joint, tube or any other part of the assembly is not 100% we see it immediately and can correct it.

This being said the level of balance being done is crucial to the speed it will start to have an issue, we have to state the Critical speed for legal reasons but i will say this, we also have a Hines Eliminator balancer. its considered one of the best in the industry and if we take a fully balanced shaft from that machine and put it in the new high speed one we can take the balance further. In the Drivetrain manual put out by SAE it states that many things will effect the critical speed. the material of the tube (this is Alcoa DOM tube,the best) how the parts are mounted. there are perfect center lines on each end of this car (not a U-joint type yoke that has centering issues) it also is using a CV on one end that is much more stable in an angle situation than a u-joint and the one that will effect the number the most is the suspension. all of these calculations are from the 60's and 70's when the driveshaft would move up and down with the suspension, when a car like this hits a bump at high speed it has the ability to bring a drive shaft into its unstable area so they gave it a very large safe factor.

This being said the SAE book also stated if the shaft is mounted rigid (like an independent diff is) numbers will be higher and it also states that the numbers being reached safely are challenged every day. Again due to "legal" reasons the 150MPH number has to be given.

Yeah, I also remember seeing a thread where someone ran their car over 140+ mph and encountered some SEVERE vibration on the track, which ended up being their upgraded driveshaft.

I dont think that the V1's main issue is the IRS or the rear diff any more. Brian ( pissinuoff) has put some insane abuse to his 4th gen rear. The fact that with 500whp+ he hasnt broken it baffles me. Also Gforce and MM have made some great rear options for our vehicles which people have bought.

It honestly just seems that the V2 guys are more about drag and road racing then V1 guys. Not sure why that is but it seems to be that V1 guys like to race from rolls and be ok with a nice looking car. While the V2 guys either have the cash or just like to push the envelope more ( with a better built car stock). Since i've moved to Michigan every even i've been to either with turns or going straight i have seen more v2's competing then v1's.

We have about 10-12 v1's with built rears and many with gen 4 rears. Just no times from them. And many many cars run fast times at the strip with an irs, many of them are Gm based vehicles. If i recall didnt Stepside ( or someone with a similar sn) run 12.1 with a cam and a OEM rear? I'm sure if more people went and hit the strip with either the gen4 diff or the 9"/8.8 we would see lower 60's and quicker times.

That was really the reason why i made the 1/4 thread so people would be motivated to go drag.

I would drag all the time, if I had a 9" Gforce setup... sigh...

If the V1 had better seats I would do more road course track days. Are there really more v2's doing road course track days than V1's? I find this odd just based on car value, cost of maint, most have the slushbox factor, etc... Yes before somebody gets all touchy about the automatic I already know the official ring time was set with a auto v2 (JH is the reason for that time, he could have set it in a cvt based v2)and that it is documented to be faster than the manual in several 0 to whatever tests, its still slushy unless somebody wants to loan me one to change my opinion. :)

im just saying the 2x more thing on what i have seen in person. At my track day the v2 guys there were ex v1 people, and according to them they never did anything with their v1's.

I see 10 times as many V2s as I do V1s on the road, thats the reason you see more at the track.


And it isnt the diff itself that bothers me that much with the V1, its the shitty engineering Gm used as far as suspension. My car wheel hopped like a sombitch at the track, I ran it about 10 times and never went better then a 2.29 60' because it hopped so damn bad.