Automatic Transmission - 4l60E shift kit trouble.

Pulled the pan last weekend, and when I examined my drained fluid, this steel pin was sitting there. Preparing to put it all back together, I don't know what this is, or where it goes? Looked at every schematic I can find, photos, can't find this anywhere. It is possible it was sitting on the top of my drain pan before I ever removed the tranny pan, too.

Nolan

it appears to be an accumulator pin

http://transmissiontechnologies.com/images/products/detail/7775402k.jpg

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v238/Tahoe30/BM%20shift%20kit%20install%20pics/sk18.jpg

Thanks Mikey - Disassembled and the accumulator pin is there as it should be, so that's not it. The accumulator pin is about a 1/4 inch longer, and a bit thinner.

I didn't think it would have been that because I discovered this in the pan before removing the valve body (I think).

Any other ideas? I will probably reassemble as is Tuesday or Wednesday whether I can identify it or not.

Nolan

Looks like the 3-4 accumulator that is located in the case. Pretty common mistake I have seen made.

Looks like the 3-4 accumulator that is located in the case. Pretty common mistake I have seen made.


There is still a pin in the 3-4 accumulator housing. It has a smaller diameter than this piece left over, too. I think I am going to reassemble without it and see what happens. Finally got all my stuff together, that's the only mystery left.

i just tore apart my whole tranny last week and the only dowels that look like that are the accumulators.

I got it all back together, and around the block. Have a slight whirring sound I have not heard before, but maybe everything just has to get re-lubricated?

Seemed fine.. gonna let it warm up, top of the fluid, and maybe drive it to work tomorrow? AAA card ready just in case?

Drove 10-12 miles, no codes or anything. It does shift different, but I have 10 years of 'the usual' to get un-used to. May try driving it tomorrow to work and see.. Seems fine though.

I do still have an odd sound when it's in drive (sitting still, can't hear it when I'm moving) that I haven't heard of.. will see if that goes away or not.

Thanks everyone.

So after putting some miles on it, I am having what I think people refer to as "3-4 flare"..

I can be driving at around 70 mph, and if I give it a little gas, it revs up a bit without going faster.. if I let off a bit, it re-engages and then speeds up.

So basically if I give it a little gas, it'll increase RPM's but not speed.

I did drill I think 2 of the holes on the separator plate to the smaller diameter bit from the Transgo hd2 kit.

What is my problem?

Nolan

Did you do a pressure test? Whirring at idle makes me think of the pump.

Check the diameter on that thing....looks to me like the 3-4 accum. pin. If missing, 4th ain't gonna feel right. I just block the hole in the case, never had someone complain about 4th gear hitting to hard LOL:chug:

I have a pressure gauge on order to check the pressures. I confirmed earlier that this is not the 3-4 pin. Still no idea what it could be.

Damn now I'm wondering if I checked the 1-2 and not the 3-4. I hate second guessing myself. I do remember popping open the 1-2 one last time.

I bet it is the 3-4 since the thread here (http://ls1tech.com/forums/automatic-transmission/372063-4l60e-transgo.html) references the same dimensions as what I posted a pic of up there.

Okay so I have it back apart again, and it is in fact the 3-4 accumulator pin. But when I insert the pin, the plastic piston that will rest against the separator plate doesn't look like it will sit flush once I start to reinstall the separator plate.

I assume it would/should compress a bit, but it doesn't seem to, and I'm concerned with how I will hold/shim the piston onto the case (under the car, gravity and all) while I prepare/put the separator on.

Any thoughts?

see how it doesn't look flush?

So weird.. this video, at :53 seconds
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leR6KtWI4EA

they install the separator plate without the piston that goes on the case side. they call it the spacer plate. Between looking at the TransGo instructions here: http://ls1tech.com/forums/automatic-transmission/1525213-technical-shift-kit-install-questions.html (see 4th accumulator part) I am not sure how to reassemble.

see how it doesn't look flush?

That's the way it's supposed to be. You should be using the yellow spring and you should be able to push it down into the bore with a tight spring back. It should be a nice sealed fit with a fresh o-ring. Install it and put the separator plate on then install the 1-2 and 3-4 accumulator housing assembly to hold it all together.

In some cases (like mine) the piston is aluminum, and you can push it into the bore and it will actually stick there a little. If you find there is too much resistance check it for damage.

So weird.. this video, at :53 seconds
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leR6KtWI4EA

they install the separator plate without the piston that goes on the case side. they call it the spacer plate. Between looking at the TransGo instructions here: http://ls1tech.com/forums/automatic-transmission/1525213-technical-shift-kit-install-questions.html (see 4th accumulator part) I am not sure how to reassemble.


These are instructions for a stock rebuild, not a transmission with a Transgo shift kit. In the Transgo instructions (and some other shift kits) they put the spring in first, then the piston. I have the Transgo kit. In a stock build the piston goes in first, then the spring, which rests against the separator plate.

In both cases the spring or the piston will be slightly higher than the case (approx. 1/8") and will have to be pushed down by bolting down the 1-2 housing.

These are instructions for a stock rebuild, not a transmission with a Transgo shift kit. In the Transgo instructions (and some other shift kits) they put the spring in first, then the piston. I have the Transgo kit. In a stock build the piston goes in first, then the spring, which rests against the separator plate.

In both cases the spring or the piston will be slightly higher than the case (approx. 1/8") and will have to be pushed down by bolting down the 1-2 housing.

The pin is what won't compress, though, see the picture I've attached. The pin doesn't fit through the hole in the piston, and is longer than the spring, so what is the spring supposed to compress against? the spring is loose between the case and the piston.

The pin is what won't compress, though, see the picture I've attached. The pin doesn't fit through the hole in the piston, and is longer than the spring, so what is the spring supposed to compress against? the spring is loose between the case and the piston.


Thanks for being patient, I'm 98% sure I'm doing something dumb, just don't want to break anything. Your help is appreciated.

The pin is what won't compress, though, see the picture I've attached. The pin doesn't fit through the hole in the piston, and is longer than the spring, so what is the spring supposed to compress against? the spring is loose between the case and the piston.

It looks like you have mixed up your pins. That pin looks like it is from the 1-2 accumulator (the housing that sits directly on the other side of the separator plate). Try swapping the pin out of your 1-2 accumulator and using it in the case. This thing:

http://bowlertransmissions.com/content/images/thumbs/0000356_gm_4l60e4l604l65e_1_2_accumulator_spring_3 00.jpeg

You mixed up the 2nd and 4th accum. pistons! Check the hole in the center, the 1-2 is smaller:usa:

Doh, gonna go check.

You mixed up the 2nd and 4th accum. pistons! Check the hole in the center, the 1-2 is smaller:usa:



that was it.. the pins were right (fit snug) but once I swapped the pistons everything moves like it's supposed to...

see 2 attachments. I think the instructions with the Transgo kit are unclear.

I think I have it now.. thanks!

piston swap images uploaded

next time.........use sonnax pinless pistons

Several hundred builds here and never a pinless acc. in any of them.....whole lotta boost valves, sleeved drums and clutch-packs, servos and bands. I think I own stock in raybestos, but the 4th accumulator always ends up in the garbage can under the tranny bench. I'm sure GM meant to plug that feed hole with a checkball anyway;)

Hey, problem solved. Happy motoring!

All back together, and I just put another 10-15 miles on it at various speeds. Seems better, but either something is still wrong or I just need to get used to what the shift kit did. It seems to still spike the RPMs more than I would expect when it shifts into 4th. I might take a video of the tach tomorrow and maybe host it somewhere and see what y'all think.

Only in 4th? Did u replace the servo w/ aftermarket or use the parts in the trans-go kit? Did u flip the 4th apply piston in the servo cover? What about the seals? Get busy b4 u burn the band:chug:

I reinstalled it as shown here: http://ls1tech.com/forums/attachments/automatic-transmission/344274d1331523256-technical-shift-kit-install-questions-img005.jpg

Only used the Transgo HD2 parts, did not replace any servos.

Well it is still jacked up. Here's a video from my phone watching the speed and rpm's. I guess I'm going to have to find a shop to work on it. Maybe a good time to just bite the bullet and get an upgrade.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnBYamEn2Yo

Sorry the video is sideways, not sure how to easily rotate it. don't hurt your neck.

Oh and after limping it home like that, my garage smells bad, now too. Not a good sign, I know.

what size holes did you drill in the plate? was there excessive wear in the plate from the checkballs? if you did not check it i am SURE the plate was worn..........f bods already have the vette servo.....but did you install the shims?

The separator plate was the original one, about 80,000 miles on it. I did not notice any particular wear on it. I do not touch the servo at all.

Based on the video and what I've described, what kind of damage am I looking at?

The separator plate was the original one, about 80,000 miles on it. I did not notice any particular wear on it. I do not touch the servo at all.

Based on the video and what I've described, what kind of damage am I looking at?

All I see is a transmission with no 3-4 lockup judging by the vid. My experience is with 700r4s. When that happens to a 700r4 it's usually the governor or the lockup solenoid.


Being a 4L60e, yours is electronically controlled. Are you sure you connected the wiring harness properly?

All I see is a transmission with no 3-4 lockup judging by the vid. My experience is with 700r4s. When that happens to a 700r4 it's usually the governor or the lockup solenoid.


Being a 4L60e, yours is electronically controlled. Are you sure you connected the wiring harness properly?

There's really just 6 connectors, and I was pretty careful. Would it be worth replacing the solenoids, and maybe the separator plate? Could driving it like the video showed have damaged anything else, remembering the smell that filled the garage when I got it home?

There's really just 6 connectors, and I was pretty careful. Would it be worth replacing the solenoids, and maybe the separator plate? Could driving it like the video showed have damaged anything else, remembering the smell that filled the garage when I got it home?

At this point, it's hard to tell. Throwing parts at it without testing them first isn't likely to solve anything (test the solenoids with a circuit tester). I installed the Transgo separator plate in mine because the old one was worn. The accumulator spring had almost worn through the stock plate, check balls had beat dents into it too, at 93,000mi. The clutches were fine though, even the 3-4 were fine which surprised me because I found all kinds of grey matter in the bottom of the fluid pan.

So don't panic yet. Above the Valve body the 4L60e is similar to the 700. My ATSG manuals says this about "3-4 shift/slipping or rough 3-4 shift". The following may apply to you, read carefully:

Governor---Governor valve stuck. (not likely unless you installed the wiring wrong)

Oil pump Assembly---(not likely your problem since you didn't touch the pump)

Valve Body Assembly---Valves stuck (2-3 shift valve train); or, Accumulator valve; or, Throttle valve; or, TV limit valve; or, 1-2 shift valve train; or 3-2 Control valve; or, Manual valve link bent or damaged; or, Spacer plate or gaskets incorrect, mispositioned or damaged.

Case ---3rd accumulator retainer and ball assembly leaking; or, Porosity in 3-4 accumulator piston bore; or, 3-4 accumulator piston seal or seal grooves damaged; or, Plugged or missing orifice cup plug; restricted oil passage. (you had trouble assembling the 3-4 accumulator, but presumably you fixed that problem, is there anything you might have done wrong?).

Test the solenoids, then take the trans off and go through it to check for damage. This is likely being caused by a simple error.


You can call the Transgo tech line and talk to them about it. They're pretty good. But if you've already burned up the 3-4 clutches for whatever reason you may need to change that clutch pack.

if your tranny was on the way out............there is nothing the TG kit would have done for you..........ask me how i know

Hello boss man,


Please contact me for a professional consultation regarding your needs. We are happy to provide you with references both here in the United States and Internationally. Be sure to check out our website at maddogtransmissions.com

Hear what our customers and fans say on our Facebook Page at www.facebook.com/maddogtransmissions

We also accept orders over the phone. Be sure to contact us and we will recommend the correct transmission for your application. For your convenience, we accept PayPal and all major credit and debit cards.

If you prefer, we can call you personally, just e-mail us your phone number.

All our transmissions are very strong and reliable, and can be used for everyday driving. Extended warranties are also available.

Thank You,
"Mad Dog" Lou

Mad Dog Transmissions
Phone 770-781-0949
Fax 770-781-0969

Web: www.maddogtransmissions.com
Facebook: www.facebook.com/maddogtransmissions
Twitter: www.twitter.com/maddoglou
YouTube: www.youtube.com/maddogtransmissions

Nolan I would strongly suggest you getting in touch with Gil @ Ace Racing Transmissions. Gil is located in DFW and I'm sure he can get you all fixed up.

So I dropped the pan again, and my fluid looks like this. It was fresh fluid about 60-70 miles ago, so I assume whatever I did wrong has burnt/is burning up the clutches, because it shouldn't look like this, right?

Yeah, that's clutch mud. Well obviously it's going to have to come apart to inspect the clutches. You can do it yourself (big learning curve, but it can be done) or you can get a shop to do it at a price.

I'm going to read up on upgrading to an 80e, I think. The local guys I've talked to want almost as much for a rebuild as a new/totally rebuilt one.

I hate hearing people give up on the 4l60 because local builders want too much to do a "special" job they are sure will come back either because the guy is going to beat the snot out of it or they are uncomfortable using the aftermarket parts they are not familiar with....or even know they are needed.

It weighs more, eats more HP, but the 4l80 should give u no worries at all.

I hate hearing people give up on the 4l60 because local builders want too much to do a "special" job they are sure will come back either because the guy is going to beat the snot out of it or they are uncomfortable using the aftermarket parts they are not familiar with....or even know they are needed.

It weighs more, eats more HP, but the 4l80 should give u no worries at all.

I have since decided on a built 4l60e. I don't think I want to go to all the expense of the swap, when this car should never need it. I never intended this car to be a 'broken part' machine, so a strong 4l60e should be just fine.

I appreciate all the help guys, it's been a valuable (and expensive) learning experience for me.

Left it with Gilbert @ Ace today, a new Circle D TC on the way. Should be back in action in no time.

let us know how it goes

In hindsight I think this was the 3-4 shift valve in the valve body. Either stuck, or the wrong spring was put in with the shift kit. Interesting to hear what the shop finds out.