View Full Version : 100 shot.... Not satisfied


bongva
04-11-2012, 01:27 AM
So today I finally installed my nitrous kit, got everything going and working good. The first time i went to spray it today i wasn't very satisfied, although in second it did spin like crazy. It does hit hard and the tone of the motor definitely changes, but it seemed like i was expecting more from the 100 shot? Any inputs from anybody?

Running BR6EF plugs and pulled 4 degrees of timing from my current tune.

sweet99ss
04-11-2012, 01:43 AM
LOL read through my thread that sounds alot like your situation.

What is your bottle presure at?

http://ls1tech.com/forums/nitrous-oxide/1510519-sprayed-first-100-shot-today-not-impressed.html

bongva
04-11-2012, 02:36 AM
I read your whole thread earlier haha, i tried to watch your videos but they were on private. Bottle pressure was pretty high, it was around 1000psi. Not too impressed with it lol. maybe it was just me?

03EBZ06
04-11-2012, 03:28 AM
So today I finally installed my nitrous kit, got everything going and working good. The first time i went to spray it today i wasn't very satisfied, although in second it did spin like crazy. It does hit hard and the tone of the motor definitely changes, but it seemed like i was expecting more from the 100 shot? Any inputs from anybody?

Running BR6EF plugs and pulled 4 degrees of timing from my current tune.

Even a 50 shot can be fun. You might want to describe your setup.
One problem with Nitrous is it does hit hard and fast, thus if you lose traction, you don't get to enjoy the gains. Use a bottle heater, NANO?
Plug gap?

itsslow98
04-11-2012, 04:18 AM
You've probably watched too much fast and furious. Just cause it doesnt "feel" that fast doesnt mean it isnt.

soco80p
04-11-2012, 06:16 AM
You've probably watched too much fast and furious. Just cause it doesnt "feel" that fast doesnt mean it isnt.

lol i was thinking the same thing. A 100 shot is pretty mild, you done get that star wars warp speed blast until you get a 200+ shot.

Neal@NitrousOutlet
04-11-2012, 10:26 AM
Give some more information on the set up. Bottle pressure, plug gap, mods to car.

It might be that you were expecting more on a 100 shot but could also be something small that if keeping you from making full potential from the 100 shot.

Also you might but some sticky tires on and feel it in lower gears. That is when you really notice the power increase.

sweet99ss
04-11-2012, 10:39 AM
You've probably watched too much fast and furious. Just cause it doesnt "feel" that fast doesnt mean it isnt.

This was half of my problem^ Not actually watching fast and the furious, but I was expecting ALOT from it. After I increased my bottle presure it felt alot faster and I ended up racing a car that used to pull me and after spraying i put about 10 car lengths on him so I knew it was working lol.

bongva
04-11-2012, 12:18 PM
You've probably watched too much fast and furious. Just cause it doesnt "feel" that fast doesnt mean it isnt.

LOL I think you're right.

Mods on car: lid, longtubes, 3in exhaust dumped in the rear, ls6 intake, 85mm throttle body, previously tuned on motor. made 356hp/368tq i pulled 4 degrees of timing from my motor map, but i need to pull more because i was getting kr in 3rd gear, never hit 4th.
running br6ef plugs at a .035 gap
bottle pressure was at about 1000psi
NOS Wet kit, single fogger on the intake piping after iat and about 4 inches away from the throttle body.

gonna put my dr's on today and see what it feels like. maybe i was just spinning too much, because as soon as i went WOT in 2nd it spun pretty hard.

Neal@NitrousOutlet
04-11-2012, 02:50 PM
LOL I think you're right.

Mods on car: lid, longtubes, 3in exhaust dumped in the rear, ls6 intake, 85mm throttle body, previously tuned on motor. made 356hp/368tq i pulled 4 degrees of timing from my motor map, but i need to pull more because i was getting kr in 3rd gear, never hit 4th.
running br6ef plugs at a .035 gap
bottle pressure was at about 1000psi
NOS Wet kit, single fogger on the intake piping after iat and about 4 inches away from the throttle body.

gonna put my dr's on today and see what it feels like. maybe i was just spinning too much, because as soon as i went WOT in 2nd it spun pretty hard.


Yeah it sounds like everything is on bar. I would also start thinking about a fuel pump, especially when running anything over 100. You are approaching that max on the fuel pump with a 100 jet in it.

I think you will be more satisfied with drag radials and hooking up better.

87silverbullet
04-11-2012, 03:00 PM
Plus get some track times. Seat of the pants feel is one thing but track times are another.

I had a 96 Impala SS on a 100 shot and hitting that on that big tank didn't feel like anything, but at the track it went from 13.63 on the motor to a 12.75 on the bottle.

NHRATA01
04-11-2012, 03:46 PM
I've been spraying a 100 shot, mostly at the strip, for about 5 years. H/C car was making about 430 at the wheels before going a bit less aggressive on the tune. I still nail it on the street once in a while from a 2nd gear start, and still puts a smile on my face when it hits.

I would also agree about upgrading the fuel system, I went with the racetronix plug and play when I added the nitrous kit. Cost effective and very easy install.

03EBZ06
04-11-2012, 05:17 PM
lol i was thinking the same thing. A 100 shot is pretty mild, you done get that star wars warp speed blast until you get a 200+ shot.

lmao.

slippi84
04-11-2012, 05:54 PM
Yeah just have to keep in mind that 100 shot on something already making 300+whp isn't going to be like a 4cyl car making 115 spraying a 100 shot. All you really did is put ported heads and a cam on you car for however long you were spraying if you want to think about it like that.

bongva
04-11-2012, 07:10 PM
Thanks for the input guys! when I pull my plugs, what should I be looking for? Just the color of the plugs?

sweet99ss
04-11-2012, 09:55 PM
Thanks for the input guys! when I pull my plugs, what should I be looking for? Just the color of the plugs?

It's pretty hard to check the plugs if you ask me. Mainly finding a place to do it is the hardest part. You almost have to be on a closed road somewhere or a track because you pretty much have to start it up for a min and than spray you shot and turn it off pretty soon after spraying for it to read accurate. And than you have to check the plugs wherever you just shut the car down at.

bongva
04-12-2012, 02:35 AM
yea i know what you mean, im almost afraid to pull the plugs when the motor is still hot, or warm, i heard it can damage the head.... is this true? damage the head as in the threads for the spark plugs.

slippi84
04-12-2012, 01:18 PM
yea i know what you mean, im almost afraid to pull the plugs when the motor is still hot, or warm, i heard it can damage the head.... is this true? damage the head as in the threads for the spark plugs.

Cheap security is to take it to a shop that has a dyno warm it make a pass let it cool down check the plugs and then adjust accordingly. Most kits are pretty dead on out the box but depending on your setup and fuel setup and intake setup you might have to adjust a little.

billymz28
04-12-2012, 07:03 PM
its probally just a traction issue. Come to town Ill put the 100 pills back in my car and we can run from a decent roll and see were your at. We can go to mexico again I need to read my plugs although Ive sprayed a bunch already.

bongva
04-23-2012, 03:02 AM
ok so i sprayed my car again the other day, this time with a wideband and a much much smaller fuel jet. The last time i sprayed it, it was running a 34 fuel jet, now it is running a 30 fuel jet, and im still really rich in some areas. took out 3 more degrees of timing and it feels soo much better, there is no knock present. It pulls much much harder than before, i can really feel the nitrous now. im pretty satisfied with it right now, but i guess i will just throw it on the dyno some time this week and give it a good tune.

01SOMZ28
04-23-2012, 10:10 AM
When I used to run a 100 shot I was using a 52N & 28F, it ran like a champ. Went from a 12.86 to a 11.74

ATVracr
04-23-2012, 10:54 AM
Most kits are pretty dead on out the box but depending on your setup and fuel setup and intake setup you might have to adjust a little.

From what I have seen over the years I would say the exact opposite.

Most jetting from the manufactures are very rich.

That would have been the 1st thing I said to the OP was ... ITS RICH and I would have been right and it sounds like its still rich. :burn:

bongva
04-23-2012, 02:07 PM
Yea I think it's still rich a well. Up top I'm in the high 10s.

bongva
04-23-2012, 02:13 PM
My questions to the experts:
Should I run a smaller fuel jet and add fuel where needed? Or run my current jet and pull fuel?

ATVracr
04-23-2012, 02:52 PM
Change jet.

bongva
04-24-2012, 02:13 AM
Alright thanks a lot! what jet do you suggest? im at a 30f right now. on the initial hit it spikes mid to high 13s afr, the levelsn off to mid to low 11s, then about 5k-6k its in the 10s.

I hit it at about 3.3k
3.3k-4k 13s afr
4k-5k mid to low 11s
5k-6k 10s

sweet99ss
04-24-2012, 07:53 AM
I'm probably pretty rich too^. I know I would much much rather be rich than lean on fuel though. I am at 52 31 I beleive

ATVracr
04-24-2012, 08:38 AM
I'm probably pretty rich too^. I know I would much much rather be rich than lean on fuel though. I am at 52 31 I beleive

Why?

2 reasons why 99% of nitrous motors "blow up"

1. Rich (just about everything we hurt is because of this and we run ours leaner than most.)
2. Over timed

Either one will hurt a motor faster than being lean.

mchdg86
04-24-2012, 09:58 PM
I bet your bottle pressure is dropping a bit as you spray it. Buy a nano kit haha.

bongva
04-24-2012, 10:19 PM
I bet your bottle pressure is dropping a bit as you spray it. Buy a nano kit haha.

Yea no joke it is! I really need a nano kit :/

sweet99ss
04-25-2012, 01:25 AM
Why?

2 reasons why 99% of nitrous motors "blow up"

1. Rich (just about everything we hurt is because of this and we run ours leaner than most.)
2. Over timed

Either one will hurt a motor faster than being lean.

I pull 4 degrees of timing so I should be good on #2, but I have always heard from everywhere that running a little rich isn't bad and running lean is really bad. You're saying running lean is better than running reach? And why is this?

karpetcm
04-25-2012, 01:46 AM
I think when people say running rich is better then running lean they really mean that if you happen to be a TAD rich not 10.5-11.0 A/F but 11.3-11.6 A/F which is not bad maybe for some still rich youll be fine. I think people have made it more then it needs to be about running rich and people have ran with it thinking running way rich or rich is more then safe and your doing the right thing.

There are very knowledgable people here and really everyone is going to have there specific way of how they will mod up there car in particular nitrous. As long as you check your plugs and have a good tune for the shot your running and stay with in the limits of what your motor can handle, bottom end, youll be fine. Really its hard to say if your car will BLOW up or run fine. Every car is different and thats why you have to always check A/F and plugs to make sure your car is liking were its at. Ive ran 3 camaro's with nitrous and so far knock on wood ive been lucky but i havent gotten greedy going to a 200 shot with stock fuel system and crap tune.

Everytime you up the nitrous its not just a matter of changing jets and thats why people get into trouble, its just to easy to change out jets and say the car runs fine on a 150 maybe i should try another 25hp and go to 175 and then blow your sh*t up since maybe you were close to maxing out your fuel system already and didnt pull timing.

sweet99ss
04-25-2012, 02:03 AM
My current setup is a nitrous outlet wet nozzle kit (100 shot). I run the recomended jets 52f-31n and pull 4* of timing as recomended. I keep bottle pressure from 950-1050. I have my window switch set from 4k-5900 rpm and run br7ef plugs gapped to .032-.034. So I think I have everything setup pretty safe, but to be honest I have went through a bottle and I still have yet to check the plugs. Hopefully the next bottle I will have time to make a run on nitrous only and check the plugs.

ATVracr
04-25-2012, 08:50 AM
I pull 4 degrees of timing so I should be good on #2, but I have always heard from everywhere that running a little rich isn't bad and running lean is really bad. You're saying running lean is better than running rich? And why is this?

Thats the old school way of tuning, you will start to hear more and more the opposite it true. It takes a long time to change stereotypes.

Jsut going by what we have learned in the last 6-7 years of spraying alot of nitrous.
We have yet to hurt anything being to lean.
Most hurt pistons have been from being rich and a few from being over timed.

Little story I have told on here before.
During one of our 1st track outings with the FAST XFI we made a pass on a 150 shot with no extra fuel in the poweradder table.(Thats the same as a clogged fuel jet on your wet kit) The car slowed down 3 tenths and 5 mph, pulled the data log and realized what we had done (A/F was in the high 14's)and expected to have 8 melted plugs when we pulled them. To our suprise none were hurt, they looked like they were brand new out of the box. Did quick compression check and all was good there also. Being one of our 1st outings the timing was very low for the jets we had in the car.
You cant make fire without fuel.
Sometimes we learn stuff by accident thats for sure.;)

Pete91
04-25-2012, 03:53 PM
Wow I'm learning a lot in this thread. The other day I sprayed the car with my new heads and cam. While watching the afr's they were at like 12.3-12.5 so I haven't sprayed since. I for sure thought this was very lean and could cause damage. After reading the op's post 13's uppon initial hit I don't feel too worried. I will come clean and say I did have tr6's in. I am picking up the br7efs today I ordered 40, so I will be trying to plug read. My kit is a Nos 90mm plate kit. I'm spraying a 125 shot 55N/35F well sprayed it once lol on the new set up

armyboyatc
04-25-2012, 04:27 PM
I am with ATVracer. Lean and no timing is better than rich and more timing. For instance, my car was at 26 degrees on a 150 shot and my NA tune was at 28 degrees and ATVracer and Cam were telling me to add a degree and lean it out lol. Its scary because it goes against what the "old timers" say but its true and it works.

armyboyatc
04-25-2012, 04:30 PM
Here is a plug that I pulled out of my car at 25 degrees of timing. This plug shows barely any timing. Cant remember what ATV and Cam said about the fueling.
http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq31/ArmyBoyATC/1323265831.jpg
http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq31/ArmyBoyATC/1323265803.jpg

bongva
04-26-2012, 02:33 AM
Well honestly I haven't done any plug reading at all, I've just been tuning my car via Hp Tuners and a Wideband. My afr's are a little rich, but I'm getting ZERO knock. Should I still be pulling/reading plugs? or will this do? I suspected that this was fine due to the fact that i dont have any knock according to hp tuners. Any body care to elaborate?

armyboyatc
04-26-2012, 10:43 AM
Well honestly I haven't done any plug reading at all, I've just been tuning my car via Hp Tuners and a Wideband. My afr's are a little rich, but I'm getting ZERO knock. Should I still be pulling/reading plugs? or will this do? I suspected that this was fine due to the fact that i dont have any knock according to hp tuners. Any body care to elaborate?

I dont like to tune nitrous with a wide band because it is a cumulative average. Not what each cyl is doing. How would you know if you had a cyl that is hotter than the rest by looking at the wide band? HP tuners is a useful tool in the process to monitor knock but still, it gives you no idea what each cyl is doing. 1 cyl can make or break your motor on nitrous.

The way I like to do it is - Pull out 3 degrees for each 50 shot which is more than most do but lets keep it safe for now. Then change the plugs to a NGK br7ef NON projected tip plug for a 150 hit. Dont even consider a TR6 plug. NGK's are a little easier to read to me too. Go out and make a 1/4 mile pull on the kit with little to no idle/cruise time on the plugs. The less run time off the kit the better. I literally let off the gas at the top of 4th (6 speed) and shut it down and coast to a stop. Get out and check the plugs and take pics and post them up on here so others can learn. The object at this point in the tuning process is to clean the fuel up. After the fuel is cleaned up you add the timing back in. The important thing here is BABY STEPS. 1 or 2 degrees MAX at a time. I usually do 1 degree at a time. When you start to see the heat mark on the tip of the plug you know youre close. Now, from here is all up to you. I like to think that the tuning window is having the heat mark anywhere from the tip of the plug (safer) to just before the bend (aggressive). If the heat is running into the bend then you're over timed and if you continue to run it like that then you will most likely burn something up. 1 degree in this tuning process can make a big difference on where the heat mark winds up on the plug so be careful, take your time and think carefully if that extra degree is really worth it to you LOL.

The way ive seen it done at the track is to clean the fuel up and add timing till the MPH starts to fall, then pull a degree out and leave it there.

If you have a hot cyl you will see it because the heat mark will be much closer to the bend or into the bend when the rest are showing the heat mark on the tip or inbetween the tip and bend. The way to correct this is to either throw a step colder plug in that cyl or tune off of that cyl. This will usually happen on the #7 or #8 cyl or both on a LS motor. ESP if you have a standard LS style intake.

If you have a direct port then you can tune each individual cyl but not every one is a high roller lol. I sure as hell am not.

Again, post up pics so others can learn. I will try to help as much as I can but I am nowhere near where ATV or Cam are when it comes to nitrous tuning so be sure to listen to them. Dont be alarmed if you wind up close to where your N/A timing is when all is said and done. The motor wants what it wants. Every motor is different. The plugs tell the story.

I hope this helps. Sorry for the long post. If I left something out then feel free to add in or correct me if im wrong. :burn:

fst_ls1
05-07-2012, 10:37 PM
add more nitrous if your not happy with 100 shot

03EBZ06
05-08-2012, 02:02 AM
Here is a plug that I pulled out of my car at 25 degrees of timing. This plug shows barely any timing. Cant remember what ATV and Cam said about the fueling.


you got another shot of the ground strap? hard to see in photo. is there any color on the porcelain?

93camaro_zzz
05-08-2012, 05:03 PM
Take it to the dyno, and see if it really is around a 100 shot.

bongva
05-19-2012, 02:54 AM
Got a lot of the issues figured out, it was way toobrich and had a little knock. Still running kind of rich, but there is no knock. It's running WAY WAY better than when I started this thread.