Road Racing - 4th Gen drift build

No drift section obviously, this is the closest build specs to it. I know, everyone thinks they suck as drift cars, just like they suck as road race cars in most peoples opinion. I figured I have the car, no sense in buying another chassis and all the swap parts in, to just go have some fun in. I plan on running the car in the local pro-am next season with some massive weight reduction, but for now this should do. First event for me is next saturday. Heres where she's at so far,

It was an auto V6, swapped it all over to LS1/T56 from my street car.
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i179/jensonkeyes/fe4c2e6b.jpg

This includes the 35mm front sway and 21mm rear, some eibach pro line's, KYB's, and I had to sell the fikse just because I didnt want to ruin them.

Then I made a little jig and got to modifying my uprights for some more angle
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i179/jensonkeyes/733fd020.jpg
All done
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i179/jensonkeyes/c45d527e.jpg

A little comparo
stock
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i179/jensonkeyes/4946b627.jpg
mod
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i179/jensonkeyes/d6f09c1c.jpg

I can turn in a tighter circle than a civic now!! Unfortunately its to much angle for the 50mm offset 17x9's though, so I just ordered some new wheels. Wont help me for next week unless shipping is super fast. Bunch more mods coming this weekend and hopefully some testing at a buddy's "track"

I'm a road racer and autocrosser so while I've really never drifted I certainly have put the car into some nice drifts both intentional and unintentional. I would have never thought to mess with the steering geometry and don't think you really need it plus I worry about welding on cast metal.

Stiff springs, good adjustable shocks, big sway bars and a really good differential are going to be the ticket. I had Eibach Pro Kits on my car early on and now with nice stiff linear rate springs it is so much easier to toss the ass end out, apply a little power and have some fun. I'm sure you can drift it just be very careful to never go full lock and allow for contact between the tie rod and sway bar end link or control arm.

I've actually had the uprights on the car for 2 months. This is how all drift cars used to go about it. Now they make fabbed sheet metal or even billet uprights like the blu808 camaro. I've talked with MWC about making me a custom front suspension setup. It'd be fairly simple since they have the jigs already.

Suprisingly it slides really well right now, I can just go into a corner at speed, turn in, and at apex add just a touch more steering input and out she swings. Trust me, these cars need more steering angle. We all know they suck from the factory, and all the nissan's, yota's, bimmers, and even the newer stangs have a ton more from the factory.

I really want the KW V3 coilover, since it's the only coilover I've seen for these things. Body roll feels minimal now, should be able to see it with some action pictures, we'll see. Going to order a watts link and SFC from MWC whenever they give me a price on one for the 10 bolt. I've got the aurburn diff now, but want to build an open carrier with mini spool and 4.10's

Subscribing as i plan to do a lot of drifting as well

what chassis are you going to use raceme?

I didnt get anything done this weekend as I had to work. Going to make for a long day Friday and zero practice...

Had tons of fun my first time out. Time to order some upgrades now!!! And more tires. Heres my last 4 runs of the day on some 285's that actually had a little grip going for them compared to my first set of rears.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGSiNxPoSYA&context=C4c19b90ADvjVQa1PpcFMkkHBXaRPwozAKDCAYbdCg EFr4SPRAW98=

looking good on the vid.

what sizes are you running on the rear?
and did you feel the added steering angle was really necessary?

I am asking because I tried drifting my TA and felt that she was really snap happy
and thought too that the added steering angle would help out some.

I ran 275's and 285's (285's in the vid). I need more grip, or less power for that surface. It has been sealed recently so it was super slick. Im gonna try and find some 315's for next time. Yes the added angle is the only way to go with these cars imo. Now I just need more to really throw it out there. There were a few instances were more angle would have saved a spin and I could have pulled it out, one example in that vid. And I was told that you can really tell my car is heavier than all the rest, even my buddies 2900lb IS300.

Jenson, I admire the work and dedication to proper geometry. Here it comes.... but.

I also weld. A lot. Welding cast is just never a good idea. Its almost.. And I say almost for the .0000001 percenter's out there who truly do it by the book and then only get 1/2 of those welds to be confidently safe. It just always cracks and break later.

Out of care, not out of just being an ass on here and saying "Look how much I know" Please dont bet your life on those cast welds.

Take Care man and have as much fun as you can.

- Bruce.

I totally agree Bruce. I have a perminant fix for it that will get me more angle and requires no welding. But I need tubular lower control arms and move the sway bar pickup back or make a new one that attaches from the bottom.

I'm a road racer and autocrosser so while I've really never drifted I certainly have put the car into some nice drifts both intentional and unintentional. I would have never thought to mess with the steering geometry and don't think you really need it plus I worry about welding on cast metal.

Stiff springs, good adjustable shocks, big sway bars and a really good differential are going to be the ticket. I had Eibach Pro Kits on my car early on and now with nice stiff linear rate springs it is so much easier to toss the ass end out, apply a little power and have some fun. I'm sure you can drift it just be very careful to never go full lock and allow for contact between the tie rod and sway bar end link or control arm.

I haven't done drifting either, but can second your opinion on using good aftermarket suspension items to get increased steering range. I've got Global West tubular A-arms and springs, which made a HUGE difference over stock. Eibach and DSE are excellent as well.

Welding on cast metal? Don't take this the wrong way, but I wouldn't do this on a car I'd have to trust my life with.

So happy to see a drift build. Keep the updates and videos coming

nice!! subscribed forsure!!

I'm pretty happy as I finally found some coilovers geared towards handling and not drag racing that don't cost $2-$3K. Hopefully I'll have all this stuff ordered from MWC by the end of the week.

Welding on cast is very tricky, but if you tig it and burn it in deep it seems to hold up well. I put huge angles on the two pieces that were welded together, so that the soft filler rod had a lot of room to penetrate. I was also way off on how long they've been on the car...almost 10 months now as I did that last july. I will be running all tubular next year though. There really isnt any other way to get increased angle other than modifying the steering rack internally and that pick up point.

I'm pretty happy as I finally found some coilovers geared towards handling and not drag racing that don't cost $2-$3K. Hopefully I'll have all this stuff ordered from MWC by the end of the week.

What are you going with and what all are you ordering?

Ordered their SFC, LCA's, watts link, and afco pro touring single adj with 650/200 springs. Also ordered an open carrier, 4.11 gear, and mini spool. Hoping the gear will let me use 3rd instead of 2cd. Got some 17x9 +20 offset wheels on the front friday, no more scrubbing the lower control arm!! Going to get some CTV brembo's for the front now, and make my own dual rear hydro setup.

Ordered their SFC, LCA's, watts link, and afco pro touring single adj with 650/200 springs. Also ordered an open carrier, 4.11 gear, and mini spool. Hoping the gear will let me use 3rd instead of 2cd. Got some 17x9 +20 offset wheels on the front friday, no more scrubbing the lower control arm!! Going to get some CTV brembo's for the front now, and make my own dual rear hydro setup.

Interesting, I didn't know Afco made those for our cars. Those are the gas charged ones right?
And why a spool? Wouldn't that make the car tend to understeer?

Interesting, I didn't know Afco made those for our cars. Those are the gas charged ones right?
And why a spool? Wouldn't that make the car tend to understeer?

I didnt know they made them either. Search afco pro touring 02 camaro and they'll pop up. Not sure on the gas charged, just says they are twin tube design and they offer a SA and DA version.

My buddy said the same thing, a lot of the info I've been looking at online is for cheap drifters who's car starts with an open diff. So welding it into a spool is the cheapest and quickest option. A nice clutch type 2 way would be the better choice. I need to look into the auburn a little more to see what it actually is. Maybe I already have the right diff in the car:burn:

I didnt know they made them either. Search afco pro touring 02 camaro and they'll pop up. Not sure on the gas charged, just says they are twin tube design and they offer a SA and DA version.

Tell us how you like them, but Id be skeptical about them. You'd think if they were any good then they would be popular with the auto-xer and road racers, yet they go with either Koni, Bilstiens or Penskies.
It just sucks spending money twice...

My buddy said the same thing, a lot of the info I've been looking at online is for cheap drifters who's car starts with an open diff. So welding it into a spool is the cheapest and quickest option. A nice clutch type 2 way would be the better choice. I need to look into the auburn a little more to see what it actually is. Maybe I already have the right diff in the car:burn:
Yeah this is another thing I would certainly look more into before dishing out any money and ruining the way the drives...

what exhaust are you running

I can't see how they would be bad. Afco drag shocks work great, and tons of guys run these on their older pro touring cars. I was just going to use some standard issue DA afco's that we use in drag racing, but figured the valving on these would be better suited. I can't for the life of figure out what the auburn lsd is.

Exhaust is QTP's, ORY w/flow merge, spiral flow dumped @ axle

I can't see how they would be bad. Afco drag shocks work great, and tons of guys run these on their older pro touring cars.

The problem is the valving is all wrong on drag shocks but I'm sure they're a high quality piece. For drag racing it's all about weight transfer from front to rear so that's what they are valved for. They may be just fine but if you have the opportunity to change or cancel the order I would consider it. You can pick up a set of Koni double adjustable from Strano Parts for $1,330 and a set of coilover sleeves and springs from Ground Control for $419. This is a proven setup that works great on our cars. Just my opinion but I love how they work on my car.

I can't see how they would be bad. Afco drag shocks work great

According to who? Drag racers, vendors selling them and people who haven't tried anything else?


, and tons of guys run these on their older pro touring cars.

Honestly most "pro touring" guys don't know too much, and just buy whatever they see in the magazines. There are a ton of them running QA1's for some reason, and from personal experience I would rather let my car sit than drive it with those...
Look at the competitive Fbodies in racing and you will not see one car with drag shocks (or anything close to it). Bilstien, Koni, Penskie etc.


I can't for the life of figure out what the auburn lsd is.

http://www.stranoparts.com/partdetails.php?PartID=157&CategoryID=183&ModelID=7
http://www.stranoparts.com/partdetails.php?PartID=155&CategoryID=183&ModelID=7

I wouldn't get too nuts over megabuck shocks until you get the rest of the car dialed in. The car in the pic below turned a 3:01 lap at Road America with cheap Auto Zone shocks, and horrible brake biasing. Fixing the brakes would shave 10 seconds easily. Fine tune the carb? 5, maybe. Shocks? dunno... 2 or 3?
http://www.silverblade.net/images/car/TA-small.jpg

I'm not buying drag shocks
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/AFCO-1993-02-Camaro-Firebird-Pro-Touring-Shocks,43280.html

My buddy went from QA1's to afco's and liked them better. Both were DA's. Ground control's are a set spring rate, and I couldn't find what they even offered for the rate in that kit. I want two sets of springs, one for drift and one for track day/time attack. I assume you can buy GC springs only, just seems like more of a hassle to figure out what your getting. The koni's are way over priced IMO.

Ive seen all that on the auburn, I'm assuming its only a one way since it never says otherwise. Everything Ive read just says when torque decreases so does the pressure. Or its just a different type all together with the cones.

Ground control's are a set spring rate, and I couldn't find what they even offered for the rate in that kit. I want two sets of springs, one for drift and one for track day/time attack. I assume you can buy GC springs only, just seems like more of a hassle to figure out what your getting. The koni's are way over priced IMO.

You can buy your Ground Controls with whatever spring rate you specify. Different springs are available in whatever spring rate you could imagine and they're cheap so that should be the least of your worries. They are just 2.5" inside diameter coilover springs that are 10" long so just pick your rate. The Koni's are $130 more per set for the double adjustables or they're even cheaper than AFCO's for the single adjustables. Where are you getting that they are way over priced? It's just a proven system so I was throwing it out there but I suspect the AFCO's aren't a bad choice just not one that I've seen used for road course duty.

1330+420=$1750 and I'm honestly not sure where to even buy the GC anymore, they used to be all over the place. For that kind of money I would just buy the KW V3 for $1900 off egay. The Koni's are a lot more than everything else in their category. You can argue that they are in a class of their own. I'll gladly try something different just to see if its worth it. IE:4th gen drift car;)

My "drift" wheel
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i179/jensonkeyes/fdfe1dcb.jpg

Delamed a tire:burn:
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i179/jensonkeyes/1b9c19fe.jpg

My truck is down (19.5's and some power mods) but as soon as she's up Ive a got a date with a driveway. Photo shoot+video, then I'll tear the car apart and upgrade it with this stuff for a nice comparison.

I'm not sure that I agree with your thinking on shocks. The AFCO SA's were $210 a piece from what I saw, not sure how that makes Koni's overpriced.

One little thing I thought of when I looked at the 2 pictures above, you may want to get a different shifter/shift handle. You are going to have some really sloppy shifts using it.

I had the LSS on it, and it made it worse. I typically dont shift though. Hoping that a 4.11 gear will let me just use 3rd all the time. The MGW shifter is the next thing I'm buying along with the CTS-V brakes.

The koni's SA's arent, but the whole setup is, since I want to have height adjust ability. When it comes to tires, you take what you can get, so if some 18/19's come along for free I want the ability to run them.

So what are the AFCO rears though?

I know the KW's have shocks and a set of springs with an adjustable coilover sleeve which in my opinion is not really a real coilover setup in the rear.

Jensen
Curious, do you use emergency brake or hydraulic brake? Use 10 bolt axle?
Any break you welded on spindler?

I consider building up 2001 camaro ls1 for drifting

The Afco rears are a standard 7" coilover (SA), had to make a little bracket off the stock shock mount to mount them. Fronts bolted in. Since the city of atlanta banned drifting and my clutch went out, I put the car under the knife. Its currently on a diet, not to much as it only needs to be 2900lbs. New exhaust, cooling system, my headlight conversion, building all new front suspension, cage, engine, and a 7.25" clutch going in along with all the other MWC stuff

Pony, the weld's have held up just fine. I am building some tubular spindles now for more angle, less weight, and considering a 1" drop. Also building adjustable uppers and lowers. Separate hydraulic e brake system with dual stock rear calipers and 7/8" master also in process. 10 bolt with 3.42's still, hoping that a bit more power will allow the 3.42 to work. Its gonna be a long winter...trying to build a SI/6 speed drag car too.

Sounds like a lot of irons in the fire! Good luck!

This is a great build in my opinion and I applaud you for being different and actually drifting the 4th gen...I'll be looking forward to seeing it's next outing.

Man that thing sounds sweet in the video. Whats the exhaust set up?

Pony, the weld's have held up just fine. I am building some tubular spindles now for more angle, less weight, and considering a 1" drop. Also building adjustable uppers and lowers. Separate hydraulic e brake system with dual stock rear calipers and 7/8" master also in process. 10 bolt with 3.42's still, hoping that a bit more power will allow the 3.42 to work. Its gonna be a long winter...trying to build a SI/6 speed drag car too.
Do you mind to show pix of the spindles you build? Does hydraulic brake goes to rear brake or emergency brake?

The exhaust in the vid is a custom ORY/Flowmaster merge/spiral flow...new setup is a nascar 2X5 X-pipe boom tube!! Gotta get as low as possible.

Pony, I'll document all the fab work, building the jig for the spindles now. The hydro e-brake is a separate system and goes to a second set of rear calipers. A lot of people run them tied in to their stock system, but if you are on the e-brake and then hit the brakes, bad things can happen. Idk from experience, just what I was told, makes sense though if you think about it from a fluid standpoint.

My new clutch finally came in!!
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i179/jensonkeyes/20121114_165935.jpg

So glad to see another 4th gen drift build on here...not been able to check back on this for some time as Im deployed overseas and have been for several years on and off but I started to build a purpose built drift car for a Pro Am series last year and hopefully within the next month to right after New years be able to put it on a test track for test and tuning and go from there.... Developmental front rack Im building and machining that will get more then plenty of angle if your interested once I start producing them on a regular basis... Cant promise anything as of right now but pretty sure with some additional aftermarket components the angle will be what we seek in these 4th gens to get the extra imputed need for the judges, (angle, and style...) Couple of other tricks Ill share once I get time to actually test them out and put some time in the car...in the mean time great job so far and all works out look to put the 2 cars against each other...Where you out of Jenson?

I'm in GA. I spoke with turn one about modding my rack to get more travel, they said they might be able to but couldnt promise anything. I have tons of angle now (compared to stock) and will get another 5 degree's with my new upright. More rack travel would be great too!! That would put it close to what the 240's get. Thanks for your input and service to this country:usa:

where in ga are you from b/c i want to get into drifting but i and ive got a camaro so i would be interested in see how ya did all that stuff to make it work better

My shop is in Braselton

This isn't related to your drifting thread but a few of us will be at Road Atlanta in a few weeks with NASA racing in American Iron. We've currently got 3 f bodies racing in AI and one more that I know of that will do comp school some time next year. You should come out since your shop is right down the road (i'm assuming).

Is that the santa run? If so I was planning to drop by and check out some AI cars.

Is that the santa run? If so I was planning to drop by and check out some AI cars.

Yes, that is the Santa's Toy Run event. I'll be paddocked with the other 4th gen AI car near the MTI hauler. Come stop by.

nice thread! ill be following!

Interesting build for a drift car, good luck man!

Its good to see a drift build..Nice car...I loved it..

Here is the fix for your rack needs:
Swap to a BMW E36 rack and add spacers like this thread
http://www.driftworks.com/forum/parts-sale-private-sales/68749-e36-steering-rack-spacers-back-popular-demand.html

^Wow...

Here is the fix for your rack needs:
Swap to a BMW E36 rack and add spacers like this thread
http://www.driftworks.com/forum/parts-sale-private-sales/68749-e36-steering-rack-spacers-back-popular-demand.html

Have you ordered your full driftworks setup for the S14 yet?

Nope. My plan is modified stock parts for the S14.

Ordered an S&W drift spec cage to save myself some time...plus it was only $140 more than doing it myself. Metal/Fiberglass is about to get cut up to add lightness

i really like what youre doin. im very interested in seeing if you've made those spindles? I'm also building a f-body for drifting here in las vegas.

Im extreamely interested in this build, currently in the process of a T5 transsmission swap on my 94 lt1, and a seperate drift brake system and ive been looking into how the hell to get steering angle out of these things

I finally had some time to start on the cage and start gutting!!

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i179/jensonkeyes/20130209_181623.jpg

Any updates?

Trying to get caught up on the honeydolist, have to fix my buddies 911 transmission this weekend, then back on this project next week. Should move pretty fast now till we start building the DW coupe. Ive finally come up with a cheap, quick, not as light solution for steering angle too.

That Jig in your first post, how difficult was it to make, do you have a blueprint or anything?
I was going to as spacers but I like this even better, great work

Also the steering knuckles are cast steel correct?

I water jetted the flat piece and milled the other. I have a file for the WJ part, made the block on the fly. They are cast steel. I'll have a bracket in a couple weeks that will bolt to the stock upright and do the same thing as this made from 7075. Notching/taching the halo to the main hoop tonight!!

Cool, I have a mill so I guess I'll just do it all by hand then. Thanks

I can mail you the jig if you want to use it. Or my uprights. Im going back to using stock ones with this bracket. More angle and more "safe"

I can mail you the jig if you want to use it. Or my uprights. Im going back to using stock ones with this bracket. More angle and more "safe"

That would be great, But my car is still in storage.

And it started to snow again. :mad: No heat :(

I might just do tie rod spacers, for the sake of time.

I'll PM you if I'll need them

Thanks

Tie rod spacers wont do anything to add angle on a stock GM rack. That's why I'm looking at the BMW rack, external stop, so spacers add more rack travel. But this bracket may add to much angle as is so the bmw rack may not be needed anymore

Do you have more on the BMW rack, rather curious now.

Difficult finding these kind of mods anywhere from all the googleing I have done.

We have never seen anybody do a BMW rack swap but looked like a viable option because it can run spacers.

In general to do this kind of swap you will need several things:
1. Custom fluid lines because I don't think the fittings on the new rack will be the same, also might need to adjust the pressure based on the new rack requirements/limitations
2. Fabricate new mounting tabs on the subframe to attach the rack to the car
3. Custom length inner tie rods. I don't imagine a BMW has the same track width
4. Tie rod ends that are the right pitch to seat in Chevy knuckles and thread into the BMW inner tie rods

We have never seen anybody do a BMW rack swap but looked like a viable option because it can run spacers.

In general to do this kind of swap you will need several things:
1. Custom fluid lines because I don't think the fittings on the new rack will be the same, also might need to adjust the pressure based on the new rack requirements/limitations
2. Fabricate new mounting tabs on the subframe to attach the rack to the car
3. Custom length inner tie rods. I don't imagine a BMW has the same track width
4. Tie rod ends that are the right pitch to seat in Chevy knuckles and thread into the BMW inner tie rods

Have you done this before? or any experience in doing so?

cool project!

I put the BMW rack on hold since this bracket is a much easier/needed fix at the moment. Adding 26* over stock, looks like Im going to need a 9" wide wheel with a 10-15mm offset or more. I'll know more on that setup next week when I bolt it on. If its not enough angle then I'll add the E36 rack. I once fabricated a Mustang II rack to fit on my Fbody, much more challenging than putting this E36 rack on.

Here's a picture of the steering bracket in CAD. Will bolt to two of the bearing bolts and the stock tie rod pickup on the up right, and re-locate the tie rod pickup closer to center and a bit lower since all these cars will be lowered anyway.

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i179/jensonkeyes/20130425_100742.jpg (http://s72.photobucket.com/user/jensonkeyes/media/20130425_100742.jpg.html)

Always wanted to take a picture like this for some reason. All the stuff I have to put on the car...seems a lot less daunting now.
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i179/jensonkeyes/20130513_164901.jpg

Finished operation one on the brackets too.
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i179/jensonkeyes/20130505_180056.jpg

Parts look cool on the floor, but act cooler in a car

:poke:

Every time I plan to work on the car I get an emergency order for something. Plus all the other jobs I have in line already. Its a good thing money wise, but personal time is really hard to come by these days. I need to just take some PTO days at my day job and build the car