View Full Version : check out this plug...


03EBZ06
04-21-2012, 11:01 PM
this plug installed in staging lanes. 1/4 pass. shut down and removed on return road.

Total Spark (via log): 9.0 deg
Wideband: Showing 9.7-10.3X AFR
gap: 0.030"
plug: B8EFS

I get the idea more spark/less fuel needed. comments?

http://home.comcast.net/~booth.p/sp.jpg

camscam02
04-22-2012, 12:48 AM
way way way way rich and no timing

03EBZ06
04-22-2012, 01:09 AM
way way way way rich and no timing

when you gonna help me tweak this thing?

Fbodyjunkie06
04-22-2012, 01:24 AM
Pull fuel leave spark alone till fuel is corrected. Then look for heat on strap, I wouldn't chase a timing mark though.

camscam02
04-22-2012, 01:27 AM
when you gonna help me tweak this thing?

One day, I don't even have enough time to mess with my car now a days. too dang busy. what jetting is in it? I believe when I was at ffp there was something like a .05x fuel jet in it?

Pull fuel leave spark alone till fuel is corrected. Then look for heat on strap, I wouldn't chase a timing mark though.

exactly correct

Fbodyjunkie06
04-22-2012, 01:30 AM
one day, i don't even have enough time to mess with my car now a days. Too dang busy. What jetting is in it? I believe when i was at ftp there was something like a .05x fuel jet in it?



Exactly correct

internet tuner!;)

03EBZ06
04-22-2012, 01:43 AM
One day, I don't even have enough time to mess with my car now a days. too dang busy. what jetting is in it? I believe when I was at ffp there was something like a .05x fuel jet in it?
exactly correct

The plug above is an 82/46. The dedicated fuel regulator set at 54psi.
It has ran best times/et/mph w/the 78/44 combo, that resulting in around 11.4:1 AFR.

My wideband was showing excessively rich AFRs and I didn't believe it, but i guess its right.

Fbodyjunkie06
04-22-2012, 01:50 AM
Either reduce fuel pressure slowly or pull fuel jet or if you are comfortable with more power and your chassis tune can handle it add more nitrous jet.

I would for sure get it leaned out a point and a half at least, running rich with nitrous is waaay worse than running lean.

03EBZ06
04-22-2012, 02:17 AM
Either reduce fuel pressure slowly or pull fuel jet or if you are comfortable with more power and your chassis tune can handle it add more nitrous jet.

I would for sure get it leaned out a point and a half at least, running rich with nitrous is waaay worse than running lean.

I also subscribe to the leaner, less spark theory. I won't even touch the spark till the AFR gets more in line. I calculate a 1 psi drop in fuel pressure is approximately a 1% reduction fuel flow, so I will probably drop fuel pressure 2psi and see how much it changes, then extrapolate carefully.

Carter01
04-22-2012, 08:56 AM
Your fuel ring needs to be about half of what you are showing, especially if you changed that plug in staging. Like others mentioned, keep the timing waaaaayyyy low until you get the fuel right. As you add timing back in the fuel will clean up but don't do it that way for now. I think you have a good grasp on the concept so just keep reading and listening and you will reach your goals.

Fbodyjunkie06
04-22-2012, 05:27 PM
Awesome A++ advice in this thread.

I am really glad to see that there are very competent LS nitrous enthusiasts/tuners out there still :)!!!

Now if we could just get those boosted guys to listen....:(

nicentech
04-22-2012, 07:22 PM
When looking at this plug, you see way rich on the end of the threads but on the plug itself is it the color darkness or how high it comes up on the plug? Just trying to learn

Carter01
04-22-2012, 07:40 PM
When looking at this plug, you see way rich on the end of the threads but on the plug itself is it the color darkness or how high it comes up on the plug? Just trying to learn

Both color and how high it comes up on the porcelain. Had you not cut away the threads that would have been a first indicator of excess fuel.

03EBZ06
04-22-2012, 10:30 PM
I would like to see some plugs for comparison w/known AFRs.

fastazzls1
04-22-2012, 11:25 PM
it looks fat i would go down on the fuel jet and add 2 degrees for a start or as someone memntioed leave timing until you get the fuel set up nd then let it eat awesome car buy the way man

ATVracr
04-23-2012, 09:52 AM
I would like to see some plugs for comparison w/known AFRs.

Here is one of ours from a couple years ago....

12.8 A/F .... Q16 fuel .... #10 plug

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm259/Wayne158/100_0211.jpg

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm259/Wayne158/100_0219.jpg

Fbodyjunkie06
04-23-2012, 01:57 PM
Wayne what fuel and nitrous jets? Can you remember?

ATVracr
04-23-2012, 02:51 PM
Wayne what fuel and nitrous jets? Can you remember?

22N 1st stage
26N 2nd stage

No fuel jets, DRY FTW ! ;)

About 350 shot timing 12*

Fbodyjunkie06
04-23-2012, 07:27 PM
22N 1st stage
26N 2nd stage

No fuel jets, DRY FTW ! ;)

About 350 shot timing 12*

Aww them baby jets are soooo cute!:burn:

Carter01
04-23-2012, 09:41 PM
Here's one for you. As you can see, #6 plug, 14.5 degrees on .93 jet.

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab239/oxfordcobra/300shotpics006.jpg

Carter01
04-23-2012, 09:45 PM
A little smaller shot.

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab239/oxfordcobra/1020010.jpg

03EBZ06
04-23-2012, 10:01 PM
Carter, what fuel pressure are you running?

Carter01
04-23-2012, 10:12 PM
Carter, what fuel pressure are you running?

Stock 55psi.

lncboytre_d
04-23-2012, 10:23 PM
Another priceless thread....at least for me it is. I thought the OP's plugs were on track...knowledge and lack of run hand and hand while learning. Damn, i think I know just enough to be dangerous....to my engine that is. I am going to do more tuning on my 150 shot before upping the jets to 200 also. Thanks again everyone.
Tre

Phantom
04-24-2012, 05:12 PM
Here's one for you. As you can see, #6 plug, 14.5 degrees on .93 jet.

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab239/oxfordcobra/300shotpics006.jpg

nice!

Fbodyjunkie06
04-24-2012, 05:47 PM
Carter01 and you said your hottest hole was #6 correct?

Do you have any pictures of how your other cylinders look tuning for #6?

w3s1c0a5t
04-24-2012, 07:08 PM
Carter01 and you said your hottest hole was #6 correct?

Do you have any pictures of how your other cylinders look tuning for #6?

Ya on carter's car the #6 is his hottest. But we are working on something for that too. :)

Carter01
04-24-2012, 09:05 PM
Carter01 and you said your hottest hole was #6 correct?

Do you have any pictures of how your other cylinders look tuning for #6?

This was the same tune-up from along time ago. Knowing what i know now I would have ran it a lot leaner. You live and learn:bang:

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab239/oxfordcobra/1020008.jpg

Fbodyjunkie06
04-24-2012, 09:55 PM
This was the same tune-up from along time ago. Knowing what i know now I would have ran it a lot leaner. You live and learn:bang:

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab239/oxfordcobra/1020008.jpg

Ehhh, I've seen worse, namely out of my motor:barf: What was that you said, live and learn?:burn:

Question Carter, because I like picking your brain; Where would you say the timing mark is on that strap? Centered directly before the bend, right before that, or closer to the tip?

When you are looking for a definite timing mark what visual markers are you looking for?

I have learned over time how to read heat on the strap by the cadium plating burning off and (I'm going to call them heat bubbles) start to show before they turn ashy.

If I'm looking at that picture right I am just starting to see those "heat bubbles" on the very tip of that strap.

Does that sound right or am I totally off?

KING Z28 HAWK
04-26-2012, 02:38 AM
Lots of good info in here. However a how to for plug reading would be great someone should make a thread just for plug reading. I'm in the process of learning so I can start spraying this baby but the only way to learn how is to catch some threads like this. But there is no real explanation. So i'm not completely sure on what to look for.

lncboytre_d
04-26-2012, 06:36 AM
Lots of good info in here. However a how to for plug reading would be great someone should make a thread just for plug reading. I'm in the process of learning so I can start spraying this baby but the only way to learn how is to catch some threads like this. But there is no real explanation. So i'm not completely sure on what to look for.

x2 for a good Step by Step How Too thread on plug reading. There are a couple, but nothing indept. Especially on the part of reading the porcelin.

Fbodyjunkie06
04-26-2012, 12:08 PM
The porcelain is easy to read.

What you are looking for is the fuel ring at the base of the porcelain where you have cut the plug open at its base. A dark fat ring indicates that the motor is rich, the lighter and smaller the ring get's the more you are leaning out the motor. You really want almost no fuel ring and just a hint and I mean a hint faint fuel ring line. Some are more pronounced because of the coloring of the race fuels sometimes, but this is what you are looking for. Now as you lean the motor out and get the porcelain cleaner and cleaner, you will begin to see more and more heat on the strap of the plug. This will 9/10 necessitate that the timing needs to be backed off and/or a colder heat range plug used until the heat on the strap and timing mark is back acceptable and in range of what you want your tune to do.

This is the WOT fuel ring. As you move further up the porcelain you get into cruising fueling and at the very top of the porcelain is your idle fuel ring.

Now since we aren't worried about idle or part throttle this is the reason why we say, put a new plug in right before you get in the staging lanes or in the lanes, and to shut it down as soon as you cross the stripe.

This way you are almost entirely eliminating the idle and part throttle fuel rings and only getting the WOT fuel ring.

Guys that pull/push their cars to the lanes and then cut them on at the water box get the most out of this method as there is little to no idle time on them.

This is also another reason why the nitrous guys are constantly revving up their motors in staging to keep the plug as clean as possible, and to motor purge their systems.

03EBZ06
04-26-2012, 02:06 PM
so, I last nite I created a spreadsheet based on nitrous/fuel pressures, jetting, and known data from testing my plate. I set up the spreadsheet so I could vary all pressures and jetting and see a resulting relative AFR for the given nitrous/fuel.
Knowing that the 78/44 combo for my car resulted in a reasonable AFR of 11.4, I extrapolated the following data:

some of these combos will require a 1 or 2 psi drop in FP to achieve roughly 11.8 AFR:

I'm going on Sat and test a few of these.

If you have tested any of these combos and can confirm them, post up.

50 35/19
100 52/29
150 62/35
200 78/44
225 82/46
250 88/49
300 93/52
325 99/56
350 110/62

KING Z28 HAWK
04-26-2012, 07:22 PM
Fbodyjunky good stuff man! Thanks! Anybody else have anything to add?

gregrob
04-26-2012, 07:27 PM
Carter I know your stuff runs good but I have a question.

Being the efficiency of an LS cylinder head I've seen where they dont always like as much timing as you have there showing on the strap.

Have you experimented with less, to see if trap speed picks up?

lncboytre_d
04-26-2012, 09:02 PM
The porcelain is easy to read.

What you are looking for is the fuel ring at the base of the porcelain where you have cut the plug open at its base. A dark fat ring indicates that the motor is rich, the lighter and smaller the ring get's the more you are leaning out the motor. You really want almost no fuel ring and just a hint and I mean a hint faint fuel ring line. Some are more pronounced because of the coloring of the race fuels sometimes, but this is what you are looking for. Now as you lean the motor out and get the porcelain cleaner and cleaner, you will begin to see more and more heat on the strap of the plug. This will 9/10 necessitate that the timing needs to be backed off and/or a colder heat range plug used until the heat on the strap and timing mark is back acceptable and in range of what you want your tune to do.

This is the WOT fuel ring. As you move further up the porcelain you get into cruising fueling and at the very top of the porcelain is your idle fuel ring.

Now since we aren't worried about idle or part throttle this is the reason why we say, put a new plug in right before you get in the staging lanes or in the lanes, and to shut it down as soon as you cross the stripe.

This way you are almost entirely eliminating the idle and part throttle fuel rings and only getting the WOT fuel ring.

Guys that pull/push their cars to the lanes and then cut them on at the water box get the most out of this method as there is little to no idle time on them.

This is also another reason why the nitrous guys are constantly revving up their motors in staging to keep the plug as clean as possible, and to motor purge their systems.

Thanks for the advice. Copied the text and put it in a Word formatt so I can review it at the track Saturday. Dallas Raceway is playing host to an LS1Tech test and tune/grudge night. I used to say this and other sites are 90% bullshit data since everyone online is a master mechanic with a 9 second street car......I finally think I have found the 10% of solid knowledge being shared on forums. Thanks again.....everyone in the Nitrous Forum

lncboytre_d
04-26-2012, 09:09 PM
Hopefully my next post (using the info from this thread) will be about me running a 10.99 or better. :headbang:

Fbodyjunkie06
04-26-2012, 11:40 PM
Hopefully my next post (using the info from this thread) will be about me running a 10.99 or better. :headbang:

Your signature cracks me up.

Carter01
04-27-2012, 09:47 PM
Carter I know your stuff runs good but I have a question.

Being the efficiency of an LS cylinder head I've seen where they dont always like as much timing as you have there showing on the strap.

Have you experimented with less, to see if trap speed picks up?

Yes I have, I take timing away until mph drops off then I add it back in once it stabilizes at the lowest but most effective mph.

03EBZ06
04-28-2012, 07:21 PM
I've got a lot of progressive dialed in on launch, but the general setup on this day was 9 deg, 56.5psi(standalone), 88/48, ~10.5-11.0 AFR, B9EFS, 0.028". The engine was running ~good overall. 1 or 2 more trips out and she is ready for race day.

URL To actual run:
(btw, I've been told this is really 143mph at my track, as numbers are faster than reported)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=db3U6utwLgs&feature=youtu.be

Same plug pic 1 and 2:
http://home.comcast.net/~booth.p/sp042812.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~booth.p/sp0428122.jpg

autogeek23
04-28-2012, 07:44 PM
i have so much to learn.

JL ws-6
04-28-2012, 08:42 PM
Plug in the first pie I would not change the jet if you have running off a standalone with its own fuel pressure regular, I'd start dropping fuel pressure, unt you're at the limit of that, then change the jet. That's me, I like to run a bigger jet with less pressure, less risk of one clogging.

ATVracr
04-28-2012, 09:56 PM
Get it around 12.0 and it will run ALOT better.
With 88n jet in it your getting up there where running it rich will hurt it fast.

Stop making 1/4 mile hits until you get the tune closer.
It's real rich and has no timing on the plug yet.
I would go down to 44f and make 1/8th mile pass, pull plug.

Carter01
04-28-2012, 10:34 PM
Dead rich still, listen to ATV, use the 44.

Fbodyjunkie06
04-28-2012, 11:14 PM
Boy did I have a wake up call today.

I did my first round of actual plug reading on my car.

I have much to learn also.

camscam02
04-28-2012, 11:20 PM
Get it around 12.0 and it will run ALOT better.
With 88n jet in it your getting up there where running it rich will hurt it fast.

Stop making 1/4 mile hits until you get the tune closer.
It's real rich and has no timing on the plug yet.
I would go down to 44f and make 1/8th mile pass, pull plug.

Bingo! People laughed when I told them the fuel jet in my car when I had this type tuneups in it... lean and mean baby :usa:

camscam02
04-28-2012, 11:21 PM
Boy did I have a wake up call today.

I did my first round of actual plug reading on my car.

I have much to learn also.

sooo what'd it run?

Fbodyjunkie06
04-28-2012, 11:22 PM
sooo what'd it run?


Do I have to?

gregrob
04-28-2012, 11:58 PM
Spill it :devil:

03EBZ06
04-29-2012, 12:31 AM
Get it around 12.0 and it will run ALOT better.
With 88n jet in it your getting up there where running it rich will hurt it fast.

Stop making 1/4 mile hits until you get the tune closer.
It's real rich and has no timing on the plug yet.
I would go down to 44f and make 1/8th mile pass, pull plug.

what AFR increase would you expect going from a 48 to 44? I'm seeing about a 0.5 AFR change between fuel jets, that sound about right?

03EBZ06
04-29-2012, 12:34 AM
Plug in the first pie I would not change the jet if you have running off a standalone with its own fuel pressure regular, I'd start dropping fuel pressure, unt you're at the limit of that, then change the jet. That's me, I like to run a bigger jet with less pressure, less risk of one clogging.

Right you are sir. Before any changes, I'm going to drop the FP a few psi. I'm finding around a 0.25 AFR per psi.

baezi z06
04-29-2012, 07:18 AM
so, I last nite I created a spreadsheet based on nitrous/fuel pressures, jetting, and known data from testing my plate. I set up the spreadsheet so I could vary all pressures and jetting and see a resulting relative AFR for the given nitrous/fuel.
Knowing that the 78/44 combo for my car resulted in a reasonable AFR of 11.4, I extrapolated the following data:

some of these combos will require a 1 or 2 psi drop in FP to achieve roughly 11.8 AFR:

I'm going on Sat and test a few of these.

If you have tested any of these combos and can confirm them, post up.

50 35/19
100 52/29
150 62/35
200 78/44
225 82/46
250 88/49
300 93/52
325 99/56
350 110/62

On the 78N jet i ended up whith 35F on 62psi fuel pressure...
picked up 13-14mph on 17 degree timing

44F was pig rich in my combo whith the 78N jet

but Great Threat BTW...

baezi

Carter01
04-29-2012, 08:01 AM
Do I have to?

Yes you have to, we're looking at you to be the next big thing! :usa:

03EBZ06
04-29-2012, 01:22 PM
Boy did I have a wake up call today.

I did my first round of actual plug reading on my car.

I have much to learn also.

oops. wrong post. post those plugs. We can all benefit by them. so far only Carter01, myself and ATVRacer posted pics. more the better.

Fbodyjunkie06
04-29-2012, 04:20 PM
Yes you have to, we're looking at you to be the next big thing! :usa:

6.60@105.

1.55 60'
4.36 330'

Dismal at best. I will speak of my first experience with nitrous.

I didn't get my two step hooked up which has a nitrous interrupt on it so that I can have my window switch set at the rpm I have my two step at so when the transbrake releases it is spraying instantly.

So I was leaving on the transbrake, but I was leaving with the stall's flash maxed out on motor so it was a turd with no timing just barely climbing even 100rpm, then when it finally hit the rpm window(250' out) it was like a mule kicking me in the balls.

I had a backfire on the return road on the last pass of the night(I made 3 passes)

And I automatically assumed I had nicked a strap. I got back to the pits (I coast to the ticket booth, then fire it back up get some speed going then cut it off and coast) and I popped the hood and was going to let it cool off for a while since I had forgotten my gloves and burnt my hands 20x already getting the first two sets out.

Well there was a huge commotion about 1 minute after that as racers from the LS1 camp were accused of cheating and using traction control and/or slew and riding the dots which is illegal in RS275. This went on for some time and when they called them back to the lanes I forgot all about my car and it sat till I had to leave.

Well it backfired again on the way home(I live 6 miles from the track) and I assumed again that I had gotten a plug strap.

I was too tired to check last night, but again I assumed I had gotten a strap and if I did get one I figured it to be #6 as that is carters hottest hole and me and him both pull from the rail.

Well I was wrong. All straps are accounted for and I now see why everyone HATES MSD wires. My terminal connector on the #1 plug stayed stuck to the plug when I pulled the wire off.

I'm gonna guess that was the source of the backfire.

I will post plug pictures soon.

I only have the one set I can take pictures of.

I was using the fuel jet on the N20 outlet card which was 62N and 38F 58psi of pressure and 20 degrees timing on 93 octane -7 heat range plug.

They are autolite plugs so the strap isn't going to look the same as a NGK does. These are the only plugs I could find local in time and I and other nitrous users at the track had a harder time gauging the heat on the strap with these.

I am going to mix some kind of race gas 50/50 with my 93 next time and most likely take at least 2 degrees of timing away.

5 out of my 8 plugs had the timing mark right in or before the bend, but 3 others were right at the bend or slightly past it.

We pulled 9 degrees total for the 150 from my motor tune-up.

Fbodyjunkie06
04-29-2012, 04:28 PM
What do you guys use to cut your plugs open with? Easiest/best method?

Carter01
04-29-2012, 04:50 PM
What do you guys use to cut your plugs open with? Easiest/best method?

You'll get it man, usually takes a few track days to get the bugs worked out.

As far as cutting the plug go. Get a 32 tooth hacksaw blade, chuck the actual plug in a battery powered drill on high, have someone hold the hacksaw while you spin the plug on the blade. Works like a charm, thank to dave at n20!

Now your car runs 6.3 on motor correct?

03EBZ06
04-29-2012, 04:57 PM
What do you guys use to cut your plugs open with? Easiest/best method?

I use a 30,000rpm dremel w/cutting blade and pair of pliars to hold. very small light to carry to the track.

Based on the N/F ratios I've seen recently, I would calculate about a 32 jet for the 62 at 58psi.

JonCR96Z
04-29-2012, 05:10 PM
It ran a 6.3 on motor with a loose stall. Should have at least made a motor pass to see where you are now with the new stall.

Carter01
04-29-2012, 05:11 PM
I use a 30,000rpm dremel w/cutting blade and pair of pliars to hold. very small light to carry to the track.

Based on the N/F ratios I've seen recently, I would calculate about a 32 jet for the 62 at 58psi.

I've done this method before and it works great, however unless you have a generator or a cordless dremel it won't work. The dremel is alot faster than the drill.

Fbodyjunkie06
04-29-2012, 06:10 PM
It ran a 6.3 on motor with a loose stall. Should have at least made a motor pass to see where you are now with the new stall.

It would of been interesting to see, I can tell you this though it would probably be at least a second slower gauging how tight the stall is now. I would bet it doesn't trap but mid to high 90's if that on motor.

Once I get it spraying off the line you guys and I will start seeing some good times out of the car.

It has the chassis set-up to put the power down, I just need to get a couple more bugs worked out.

I honestly just wanted some return for all the work I have done in the past week or two and I wanted to get out there with the other racers in the class and mix it up and shoot the shit with them so I could have a good time which I did have a good time last night.

JonCR96z is my tuner. He makes the changes I tell him to on my tune. He has always been a big help to me and I couldn't get to where I am without him:)

He's a good friend to have and his tuning knowledge is pretty vast, much more than mine. I have learned just about everything I have learned about tuning from him and one or two others.

We need to pull at least 2 more degrees Jon if I continue to use pump gas.

I still would like to pull at least a degree or degree and a half even if I mix in some race gas.

I'm working on the plug pics guys. Bear with me;)

03EBZ06
04-29-2012, 06:40 PM
I've done this method before and it works great, however unless you have a generator or a cordless dremel it won't work. The dremel is alot faster than the drill.

I've got an D/C -> A/C Inverter (150w) from Radio Shack. Just plug it in to the cigarette lighter and you have A/C power. I mostly use it for the laptop and logging.

shortdog
04-29-2012, 07:30 PM
On the 78N jet i ended up whith 35F on 62psi fuel pressure...
picked up 13-14mph on 17 degree timing

44F was pig rich in my combo whith the 78N jet

but Great Threat BTW...

baezi
I also had to drop 10+ fuel jet sizes when trying that size shot, even with a Nano.
Well I was wrong. All straps are accounted for and I now see why everyone HATES MSD wires. My terminal connector on the #1 plug stayed stuck to the plug when I pulled the wire off.
I ditch those $60+ dollar pieces of shit a long time ago, went with $30 dollar Autozone lifetime warranty wires and called it the day.

Fbodyjunkie06
04-29-2012, 07:33 PM
I also had to drop 10+ fuel jet sizes when trying that size shot, even with a Nano.

I ditch those $60+ dollar pieces of shit a long time ago, went with $30 dollar Autozone lifetime warranty wires and called it the day.


Did you have problems with the boots pulling off?

I went to pull the damn thing off, and half of the wire stayed stuck to the plug! I realized right then what had happened.

shortdog
04-29-2012, 09:27 PM
^ :nod: That's the reason they're off my car.

I kept the non broken wires for spares though.

Carter01
04-29-2012, 11:16 PM
^ :nod: That's the reason they're off my car.

I kept the non broken wires for spares though.

Same here ^^^ I found out the hard way about not having a few spare wires when racing so ever since I pulled one apart I keep two or three spares at all times.

Robert56
04-30-2012, 02:03 AM
Didn't read the replies so all has prob been covered, but here is my two cents. way to rich. i didn't see where you stated what size shot your running so lets assume its a 150hp shot. I would run a high 12.x to low 13.x:1 ratio. these guys that think they need a 10.5:1 ratio are the same guys that are blowing their motors. What we what is a safe run and no melt down so we must address a couple other issues. Fuel quality, IE: octane, run the best fuel you can get your hands on. yes costly, but so is a replacement motor. I used to buy 55 gallon drums of Trick nitrous gasoline for racing. Next is timing. we want to run as much timing as we need to make max power, or the best ET. Tuning on the dyno is great, for a start performance tune, then follow up at the track with some launches and quarter track runs, shut her down then read your plugs. keep doing this till you know you can make a full hard run. I would have pulled a few degrees from what the dyno tune ended up with for safety matters and now you can start adding a degree or two back and make another run. As long as your ET is getting better your going in the right direction. However, this is where reading your plugs comes into play big time. They are going tell you exactly what you need for your nitrous tune. I haven't been on here for 2 and half years, but right before i left we were doing a couple excellent plug reading threads and would rec looking for them cause that's the secret of a true nitrous head, lol. I set and held numerous Z06 records, not to mention dyno shoot out 4 years in a row, running multi stage dry nitrous in various manners and motors, so most of my suggestions are tried and true methods that i learned threw hard knocks and from experience and a whole lot of talking to the guys on this forum where i learned a lot. Never be afraid of asking a question no matter how dumb it may seem, i never cared what people thought and would ask what ever it was I needed to understand what we were trying to do at the time. in the end i had 4 stages, all dry, with stage 1 being a direct port dry and i could go on and on and would love to but will shut up for now, lol. Good luck bro. Oh yea, i did notice the 2nd poster and you can def count on his info as being right on and full of insight. Robert

I see in my old sig the hp/tq, lol, they went well past 700hp/800tq...

03EBZ06
04-30-2012, 03:22 AM
... what people thought and would ask what ever it was I needed to understand what we were trying to do at the time. in the end i had 4 stages, all dry, with stage 1 being a direct port dry and i could go on and on and would love to but will shut up for now, lol. Good luck bro. Oh yea, i did notice the 2nd poster and you can def count on his info as being right on and full of insight. Robert

I see in my old sig the hp/tq, lol, they went well past 700hp/800tq...

So far, my best tune has been on the 78/44, but that was at 11.4 AFR.
"nitrous head", LMAO. Thanks for checking in. Post up some plugs if you still have them. I know you must have a bucket of them somewhere.

By my next visit to the track, I expect to be on target w/fuel and
experimenting w/spark.

What are your thought on progressive controllers? I sometimes wonder if the solenoids don't like being rapidly turned on and off.

Fbodyjunkie06
04-30-2012, 08:41 PM
Ok guys I could NOT get these fuckers cut open for the life of me.

I am going to have to wait and find a dremel to cut them open with. I can at least offer some strap shots up.

Here is what I think, no heat on strap, barely a timing mark and that I probably have some room to lean it out judging by the heat.

The porcelain is white, and when I shine my l.e.d. flashlight down in the plug I can see a tan line about the width of a pencil tip at the WOT fuel ring.

I am going to try and work on getting shots of the fuel ring when get this set cut open.

http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h344/fbodyjunkie06/DSCN0106.jpg

http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h344/fbodyjunkie06/DSCN0102.jpg

http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h344/fbodyjunkie06/DSCN0101.jpg

http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h344/fbodyjunkie06/DSCN0100.jpg

http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h344/fbodyjunkie06/DSCN0099.jpg

http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h344/fbodyjunkie06/DSCN0098.jpg

http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h344/fbodyjunkie06/DSCN0097.jpg

http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h344/fbodyjunkie06/DSCN0096.jpg

http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h344/fbodyjunkie06/DSCN0095.jpg

camscam02
04-30-2012, 09:13 PM
those look to be projected as well, find some damn NGK 1049's please

JonCR96Z
04-30-2012, 09:17 PM
Wow, NGK is much easier to read. One 1/8 mile pass might not be enough on a small shot to really show up on those.

Just get em cut open. What was your wideband reading?

JL ws-6
04-30-2012, 09:28 PM
Go to your local auto parts store and just order 100 plugs. Sucks I know to spend that kind of money on plugs, and they WILL look at you like you're a nut when you do it, but believe me it's worth it. Sit at home, with the gapping tool, and a good movie and gap every single one... then you won't have to deal with that nightmare either for a while, just pull them and put them in and go....

No part of any of that is fun but it will save you alot of time and be worth it in the long run.

I ran autolite plugs, AR3933 if I remember right, that was the cut back ground strap #9 heat range. Don't use them until you know the tuneup is right because if you do burn a ground strap on one you will have absolultey hurt a piston.

Fbodyjunkie06
04-30-2012, 09:57 PM
those look to be projected as well, find some damn NGK 1049's please

They may suck for sure, but they aren't projected, but after looking at them again you have me wondering.

Fbodyjunkie06
04-30-2012, 10:12 PM
When I got the Autolites I asked them (auto zone) if they had B8EFS first. They pulled up straight to a 1049 but it wasn't something they stocked they had to order. I was curious then so I asked about a B9EFS. They pulled up, but again didn't stock them and had to order. Curious I asked for B10EFS and they didn't pull up anything which I kinda figured. So I asked for BR7EF and they pulled up and they did stock those, but didn't have any left. The autolights I got cross referenced to the BR7EF. The TR55 on the left I pulled out of the motor at the track. I drove to the track on these and they have been in the motor for all my passes made so far. The plug on the left is a used Autolite from the above picture.
http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h344/fbodyjunkie06/DSCN1271.jpg

Fbodyjunkie06
04-30-2012, 10:15 PM
Wow, NGK is much easier to read. One 1/8 mile pass might not be enough on a small shot to really show up on those.

Just get em cut open. What was your wideband reading?

11.8-11.9 mostly but on the last pass I saw 12.0-12.1 I don't know if that was a misfire from the plug boot or what, but I am sure I was down a cylinder on the one pass at least.

For being down a cylinder, hitting it 250' out, the results aint half bad!:jest:

And you can see in the picture I just posted where I have tried to cut that plug open. Am I cutting in the right spot?

Fbodyjunkie06
04-30-2012, 10:17 PM
Go to your local auto parts store and just order 100 plugs. Sucks I know to spend that kind of money on plugs, and they WILL look at you like you're a nut when you do it, but believe me it's worth it. Sit at home, with the gapping tool, and a good movie and gap every single one... then you won't have to deal with that nightmare either for a while, just pull them and put them in and go....

No part of any of that is fun but it will save you alot of time and be worth it in the long run.

I ran autolite plugs, AR3933 if I remember right, that was the cut back ground strap #9 heat range. Don't use them until you know the tuneup is right because if you do burn a ground strap on one you will have absolultey hurt a piston.

Do the strap on those look like a shiny aluminum?

03EBZ06
04-30-2012, 10:19 PM
FYI: Summit got me a box full of plugs in 2 days, B8EFS and B9EFS that is. I had same problem w/local parts guys not stocking them.

Fbodyjunkie06
04-30-2012, 10:42 PM
FYI: Summit got me a box full of plugs in 2 days, B8EFS and B9EFS that is. I had same problem w/local parts guys not stocking them.

How much shipping?

I joined a parts place online last week that was suggested by some nitrous guys on yellowbullet to another member. They had 8's, 9's, and 10's for 1.50 each in a box of 10 and shipping was cheap.

I need to check my e-mail and see if they confirmed my membership. It was free so I figured I should at least buy some from them.

03EBZ06
05-01-2012, 12:03 AM
How much shipping?

I joined a parts place online last week that was suggested by some nitrous guys on yellowbullet to another member. They had 8's, 9's, and 10's for 1.50 each in a box of 10 and shipping was cheap.

I need to check my e-mail and see if they confirmed my membership. It was free so I figured I should at least buy some from them.

wow, thats a better deal than I got. I may look at them.

Fbodyjunkie06
05-01-2012, 02:14 AM
wow, thats a better deal than I got. I may look at them.


I'm trying to find that e-mail I got my confirmation message for signing up from, but they hadn't allowed me to sign in yet.

I may have to get the site name from that thread again. They said it took them 3-4 days to recognize their membership. That is the guys that ordered from the site I am speaking of from YB.

I figured at 1.50 a plug 10 plugs that's 45 bucks for 40 plugs 5 passes at the very least and I am saving all of my plugs that I am checking now after one pass to re-use once I get a handle on certain tune-ups so I don't just waste them.

03EBZ06
05-01-2012, 02:37 AM
I'm trying to find that e-mail I got my confirmation message for signing up from, but they hadn't allowed me to sign in yet.

I may have to get the site name from that thread again. They said it took them 3-4 days to recognize their membership. That is the guys that ordered from the site I am speaking of from YB.

I figured at 1.50 a plug 10 plugs that's 45 bucks for 40 plugs 5 passes at the very least and I am saving all of my plugs that I am checking now after one pass to re-use once I get a handle on certain tune-ups so I don't just waste them.

$2.39 a plug plus $9.95 shipping.

ATVracr
05-01-2012, 08:44 AM
Looks like a projected tip to me.
Get rid of the autolites !

Fbodyjunkie06
05-01-2012, 11:29 AM
Looks like a projected tip to me.
Get rid of the autolites !

After doing research it is indeed a projected tip. It's their "power tip" which is shorter than a normal projected, but not a non-projected as you are suppose to use. Is it as bad as a Tr6 or Tr7 maybe not, is it optimal or ideal? Hell no. They are gone trust me. I'm going to use the other set I have left for warming the car up or just street driving.

Freaking vato zone man, never again. Waiting on Napa to call me to say my B8's B9's are in.

Wayne what do you see on that strap? The same thing I said? No heat? No timing mark?

10secZ28
05-01-2012, 02:40 PM
pictures are tough to see anything, but it looks like the mark is about halfway down the strap before the bend, autolites are tough to read sometimes i had them in my ss, i like the ngk's much better.

ATVracr
05-01-2012, 04:31 PM
Dont see any heat on it but it takes more heat to put a mark on the autolites.
Most time you have to make more than 1 pass to get heat on them, the straps are thicker and stronger thats why when you burn a strap on a autolite there is no question the motor is hurt. NGK's sometimes you get lucky and dont hurt anything. NGK much easier to read. IMO.

Start over with the tune now that you have right plugs, you didnt learn anything from those autolites.

camscam02
05-01-2012, 04:51 PM
$2.39 a plug plus $9.95 shipping.

call your local oriellys (used to be Kragen), give them NGK 1049 they are usually $1.70ish and usually stock them in a warehouse in dixon so they should be there next day. Thats what we usually do

JL ws-6
05-01-2012, 06:09 PM
Do the strap on those look like a shiny aluminum?

Yes. I wouldn't run them unless you have a good handle on your tuneup. The ground strap on them is STRONG, try to gap one and you will see... that being said, you burn one of those and you will be pulling a head and looking stuff over, if not worse. Only good part about them is that once you have a good handle on your tuneup, and know things are o.k. and you're not making changes anymore, you can run them, and run them several times before you have to replace them. I was able to get an entire day out of a set, no issues, they seem to stay cleaner, etc.

I wouldn't try to learn a tune up with them though, they are a little harder to read, and again, you see the tip get nipped off one of them you're in trouble.

10secZ28
05-01-2012, 09:41 PM
Maybe its me trying to look at those on my phone, or the actual pictures, but it sure looks like a mark on those plugs

Fbodyjunkie06
05-02-2012, 10:13 AM
Maybe its me trying to look at those on my phone, or the actual pictures, but it sure looks like a mark on those plugs

There are 2 or 3 that you can see some heat beginning to show on the tip.

I use the analogy of sticking a piece of iron in a kiln and as the heat begins to absorb in the metal the heat moves further and further up the strap/metal.

It looks like on the very tip of some of them you can see heat, and on the first set of plugs I made a pass on it was looking like the timing was either right before the bend or in the bend, then again it was hard to judge.

I am not going to add any timing at all, and in fact I am going to do the opposite by pulling more and leaning it out.

Here is my plan for the next outing, I wanted to get you guys opinion for procedure.

First thing is I will have NGK's in -8 and -9 on hand with me.

Second I would like to make a pass with the NGK's and the original tune-up I was running on the autolites which was/is 62N 38F 58psi FP and 21 degrees total timing(I thought it was 20, but it's 21 as we are pulling timing from the AFR correction table for spark so we can remember how much we pulled easily and not just a total timing number). I would like to see what the heat looks like on the NGK's with that tune-up.

Third. If that tune-up I was running above (62n 38f 58psi 21 total) shows no heat, and no timing mark with the -8's like it did with the -7's I would like to move from the 38f jet to a 35F jet. I also have a 34 jet and a 33 jet.

Should I go from the 38 to a 35 or should I jump down more straight to the 33 and not even mess with the 34 or 35?

I want to do this right, but don't want to make passes that aren't necessarily going to change much.

I would like to see the AFR go from 11.7-11.9 where it was at first to 12.3-12.5 and get a reading on the porcelain like that.

I think I know the answer and that is go slow use the 35, then the 34 then the 33 to fine tune it where I want it.

My next tuning question is once I get the 150 lined out, would it be alright/wise to try the 200 shot tune-up with the way they have it on the jetting card knowing it's probably going to be richer than I want it? The card says 78/46...I don't have any other .040 range jets aside from the .046 I was thinking it would probably end up around the 38f jet that I do have.

What do you guys think about this?

10secZ28
05-02-2012, 10:35 AM
Just looked at those plugs again with my laptop lol big difference, yea i also don't see heat on them, for some reason my phone makes everything darker.

03EBZ06
05-02-2012, 11:30 AM
My next tuning question is once I get the 150 lined out, would it be alright/wise to try the 200 shot tune-up with the way they have it on the jetting card knowing it's probably going to be richer than I want it? The card says 78/46...I don't have any other .040 range jets aside from the .046 I was thinking it would probably end up around the 38f jet that I do have.

What do you guys think about this?

if it helps, I noticed recently that 1 jet size was close to 0.5 AFR. I like the step down idea.

Fbodyjunkie06
05-02-2012, 11:45 AM
if it helps, I noticed recently that 1 jet size was close to 0.5 AFR. I like the step down idea.

Is that .05 or .5?

I guess I should buy some .040 jets.

Fbodyjunkie06
05-02-2012, 11:48 AM
Just looked at those plugs again with my laptop lol big difference, yea i also don't see heat on them, for some reason my phone makes everything darker.

I'm glad you concur:)

10secZ28
05-02-2012, 11:50 AM
i'm glad that your glad that i concur :)

camscam02
05-02-2012, 12:18 PM
I see about .2 per fuel jet change. I would start 62 35 18 degrees total with 8's in it. That should be damn close and Im sure you can add timing after that and fine tune. 33 to 32 is usually the jet it ends up being but every car is a little different.

As far as fuel jets, if you want to do it right have every jet from 30-50... you could sneak by with every other but I still like to have the adjustability for my mind. I usually go up about 2-3 fuel jet sizes per every 10 or so nitrous jet sizes. Just what I do and might not work for everybody

n2ols1cam
05-02-2012, 12:40 PM
I see about .2 per fuel jet change. I would start 62 35 18 degrees total with 8's in it. That should be damn close and Im sure you can add timing after that and fine tune. 33 to 32 is usually the jet it ends up being but every car is a little different.

As far as fuel jets, if you want to do it right have every jet from 30-50... you could sneak by with every other but I still like to have the adjustability for my mind. I usually go up about 2-3 fuel jet sizes per every 10 or so nitrous jet sizes. Just what I do and might not work for everybody

right now i am at 21 degrees of timing with 62 34 jets in with a 9 plug. do you think thats safe? my afr is between 11.8-12.4 and i have a forged bottom end if that makes a difference. im also on 93 oct and pulling for the rails.

camscam02
05-02-2012, 01:14 PM
right now i am at 21 degrees of timing with 62 34 jets in with a 9 plug. do you think thats safe? my afr is between 11.8-12.4 and i have a forged bottom end if that makes a difference. im also on 93 oct and pulling for the rails.

sounds close. Probably don't need the 9's but they're fine for now. take away timing and see if it slows down or the opposite. Id take away timing first though and see what happens. haha

goodluck

n2ols1cam
05-02-2012, 01:20 PM
sounds close. Probably don't need the 9's but they're fine for now. take away timing and see if it slows down or the opposite. Id take away timing first though and see what happens. haha

goodluck

ok, thanks man. it seems to like it at 21 degrees but i havent checked the plugs yet, im only going by the wideband. is 21 degrees safe or on the high side?

camscam02
05-02-2012, 02:05 PM
ok, thanks man. it seems to like it at 21 degrees but i havent checked the plugs yet, im only going by the wideband. is 21 degrees safe or on the high side?

Could be?? I couldn't tell you anything without seeing a plug. Same goes for fuel... seems ok, but without seeing a plug how do I know the wideband is correct...

basically you're in the right ballpark that I see on average, no idea if it is correct for YOUR setup and your weather conditions

n2ols1cam
05-02-2012, 02:19 PM
Could be?? I couldn't tell you anything without seeing a plug. Same goes for fuel... seems ok, but without seeing a plug how do I know the wideband is correct...

basically you're in the right ballpark that I see on average, no idea if it is correct for YOUR setup and your weather conditions

ok, that answers my question. i just wanted to be in the ballpark for right now.

Fbodyjunkie06
05-02-2012, 07:33 PM
Pull 3 degrees and check the plugs. If there is no timing mark or it is at the tip add it back in a degree at a time until there is a timing mark or until the car slows down.

If it speeds up from the 3 degrees being pulled then you know what it wanted even if the plug shows you have more lead to play with timing wise. A lot of the old nitrous guys will tell you don't chase the timing mark as long as it is in a comfortable region(before the bend).

03EBZ06
05-03-2012, 01:26 AM
call your local oriellys (used to be Kragen), give them NGK 1049 they are usually $1.70ish and usually stock them in a warehouse in dixon so they should be there next day. Thats what we usually do

roger that. more savings for nitrous.

n2ols1cam
05-03-2012, 10:46 AM
Pull 3 degrees and check the plugs. If there is no timing mark or it is at the tip add it back in a degree at a time until there is a timing mark or until the car slows down.

If it speeds up from the 3 degrees being pulled then you know what it wanted even if the plug shows you have more lead to play with timing wise. A lot of the old nitrous guys will tell you don't chase the timing mark as long as it is in a comfortable region(before the bend).

ok ill play around with it, thanks for your advice.

Fbodyjunkie06
05-03-2012, 12:25 PM
Lean is mean and to run safe while running lean you need to be cautious and lighter handed on your timing and a cold plug.

Your engine will thank you.:)

n2ols1cam
05-03-2012, 01:53 PM
Lean is mean and to run safe while running lean you need to be cautious and lighter handed on your timing and a cold plug.

Your engine will thank you.:)

thanks man! im going to the track on sunday so im going to try 19 degrees total on 62n 33f jets. it should be around 12.4-12.5 afr and of course im going to read the plugs.

Fbodyjunkie06
05-03-2012, 08:37 PM
thanks man! im going to the track on sunday so im going to try 19 degrees total on 62n 33f jets. it should be around 12.4-12.5 afr and of course im going to read the plugs.

That sounds very close to where I think I will end up with my tune-up for my 62n jet.

B8EFS?

I think with the information you have gathered and what you have just said you will do just fine.

n2ols1cam
05-03-2012, 11:27 PM
That sounds very close to where I think I will end up with my tune-up for my 62n jet.

B8EFS?

I think with the information you have gathered and what you have just said you will do just fine.

I actually have a B9EFS just to be safe.

Fbodyjunkie06
05-04-2012, 07:10 PM
I actually have a B9EFS just to be safe.

Sounds good to me!

Fbodyjunkie06
05-11-2012, 12:20 PM
New plug pictures.

62N 38F 20 degrees total timing BR7EF plug gapped at .030 50/50 sunoco 93/110.

Here is what I see. Timing mark on the tip, starting to show good heat on the tip also.

I think the motor will/would run best like this. Although it did take 3 passes on this set of plugs to get this heat and timing mark to show.

AFR was 11.9-12.0.

I was more worried about getting the car to hook than the tune-up yesterday since the plugs looked pretty decent.

Once I get it to hook, I am going to start leaning it out. I'm pretty sure once I lean it out it won't take 3 passes to show enough heat to read the strap. Porcelain was nice and white with a slight light green(fuel color) ring at the base, very very faint.

I'm missing a plug, don't know where it is so here are 7 of them. And for you smartasses those aren't my hands holding the plugs:)

http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h344/fbodyjunkie06/plug%20pictures/DSCN0117.jpg

http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h344/fbodyjunkie06/plug%20pictures/DSCN0116.jpg

http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h344/fbodyjunkie06/plug%20pictures/DSCN0115.jpg

http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h344/fbodyjunkie06/plug%20pictures/DSCN0114.jpg

http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h344/fbodyjunkie06/plug%20pictures/DSCN0112.jpg

http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h344/fbodyjunkie06/plug%20pictures/DSCN0110.jpg

http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h344/fbodyjunkie06/plug%20pictures/DSCN0111.jpg

10secZ28
05-11-2012, 12:38 PM
beautiful hands man......eh hem i mean plugs :)

Fbodyjunkie06
05-11-2012, 12:50 PM
beautiful hands man......eh hem i mean plugs :)

Yea yea I knew there would be some comments about the nails.

Even my mom knows how to read a nitrous plug!:jest:

03EBZ06
05-11-2012, 01:17 PM
[QUOTE=Fbodyjunkie06;16299771]New plug pictures.

I would have thought a 62/38 mix would be VERY rich too
plugs hard to discern without porcelain view, but still whats up with a check mark by Rachel's name? : )

Fbodyjunkie06
05-11-2012, 01:21 PM
[QUOTE=Fbodyjunkie06;16299771]New plug pictures.

I would have thought a 62/38 mix would be VERY rich too
plugs hard to discern without porcelain view, but still whats up with a check mark by Rachel's name? : )

I think that is a co-worker of my mothers and that they went to eat lunch together.

I'm hoping these NGK's are easier to cut open than those fucking autolites.

I'll try a little later.

03EBZ06
05-27-2012, 11:30 PM
ahhh...more testing. Ok, fuel jet is finally dialed!!!!!!!!!! for the given jetting.
Now, I need to go back out and turn up the spark a little.

stay tuned...

ATVracr
05-29-2012, 09:02 AM
Still rich but its getting closer.
I'd pull another 1* out when you start leaning it out.

Fbodyjunkie06
05-29-2012, 11:36 AM
Still rich but its getting closer.
I'd pull another 1* out when you start leaning it out.

Muah?

ATVracr
05-29-2012, 12:54 PM
Muah?

Pics above are still pretty rich, I can tell you that before you even cut them open.

See black soot(sp) around the ring.... RICH.

So ya you still have a little ways to go on the fuel as you do that the heat on the strap will start to come also.

Take it slow.

03EBZ06
06-06-2012, 12:17 AM
Just noticed something this weekend.

When running N/A the AFR is very flat. Car was pulling easy 10.8s in 90F+ temps. On nitrous it starts around 11.5 AFR and then goes rich (almost linear) towards 6800rpm.

In any case, N2O solenoid has been replaced w/25amp Nitrous Outlet piece.
I think the progressive may have abused it a little and also the one on there was an older style solenoid.

wish me luck for this weekend cuz its testing time again. : )

03EBZ06
06-09-2012, 02:41 AM
removed outdated NX Express solenoid, added Nitrous Outlet Solenoid.
Increased fuel jetting by 2 jet sizes. It wants more fuel. Just ran out of time tonite.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=117FyQv0XY8

Fbodyjunkie06
06-10-2012, 08:45 PM
Pics above are still pretty rich, I can tell you that before you even cut them open.

See black soot(sp) around the ring.... RICH.

So ya you still have a little ways to go on the fuel as you do that the heat on the strap will start to come also.

Take it slow.

Just saw this. Thanks Wayne. After finding out my bottle pressure was way too low due to the broken shitty gauge on a cheap bottle I bought I found out what was making it so rich. I had a damn 82/40 jet combo on 58psi and the plugs still looked rich and I figured that tune-up would be dead on the money. After talking with camscam he ran/runs the same tune up on a 82n with my fuel pressure.

Should I leave it alone tune-up wise (82n/40f 58psi) with the correct(900-950) bottle pressure and see what it does and go from there?

Or would you pull one more degree still and go from there. I'm only at 16* total timing on the 82/40 tune-up and a pretty heavy mix of 110/93 with almost all of it being 110. I may start running it solely on 110 alone. It's 7.00 a gallon and I only use 2-3 gallons a session.