Generation IV External Engine - LS2 FAST 102 Before Longtubes

So I'm thinking about the FAST102 intake. I'm doing the intake before headers because I am concerned that with my Corsa Sport exhaust the car is going to piss of my neighbors when I get headers (I leave at 6:30-7am every day). Also, from the dyno sheets it looks to me like the 102 should make about 20hp/30tq. So close to the gains I would see from headers, but with a much cheaper install that I could DIY and much happier neighbors. I have a few questions about the FAST:

1. Can I run this Billet fuel rail (FAST 146033-KIT) and Crossover (54028FRC) without issues on my Stock LS2 Injectors?

2. Will the billet fuel rails do anything or do they just look pretty?

3. Any reason I should consider getting headers first?

4. Is it worth it to port match the 102 to my stock 243 heads?

i would do the headers first headers are probably the single best mod that you can do to a lsx engine and it will let you take full advantage of any other mods you do in the future

i would do the headers first headers are probably the single best mod that you can do to a lsx engine and it will let you take full advantage of any other mods you do in the future

Fast 102 cost:$850
Install: DIY
Retune: $50
Gain: 20whp, 30wtq
roughly $45 per HP

Headers with Cats: $1300
Install: $275-$325
Retune: $50
Gain: 25whp
roughly 65$ per HP

The FAST102 seems like better $ per HP. That's one of the reasons I'm thinking about doing it first. Even adding 200$ for Billet rails, it comes to $55 per HP, plus it looks nicer under the hood and it won't annoy the neighborhood. Unless you compare catless (which I don't think I'll be doing) to billet rails + FAST, it seems like a no brainer to me. I know it goes against convention that's one of the reasons why I'm asking if my math is right.

You sure youre gonna see 20/30 out of that intake though full exhaust? Where is all that extra air gonna go? Seems like you need both to get the full potential of the intake. I dont see why you cant do a header install yourself either? If your adept enough to do the intake you can do the headers, just takes longer.

So I'm thinking about the FAST102 intake. I'm doing the intake before headers because I am concerned that with my Corsa Sport exhaust the car is going to piss of my neighbors when I get headers (I leave at 6:30-7am every day). Also, from the dyno sheets it looks to me like the 102 should make about 20hp/30tq. So close to the gains I would see from headers, but with a much cheaper install that I could DIY and much happier neighbors. I have a few questions about the FAST:

1. Can I run this Billet fuel rail (FAST 146033-KIT) and Crossover (54028FRC) without issues on my Stock LS2 Injectors?

2. Will the billet fuel rails do anything or do they just look pretty?

3. Any reason I should consider getting headers first?

4. Is it worth it to port match the 102 to my stock 243 heads?

The 102 lined up pretty well w/my TFS235s. I put an LS3 rail on mine. I think the billet is a waste of money when compared to those.

You sure youre gonna see 20/30 out of that intake though full exhaust? Where is all that extra air gonna go? Seems like you need both to get the full potential of the intake. I dont see why you cant do a header install yourself either? If your adept enough to do the intake you can do the headers, just takes longer.

Your right, all the gains I've seen with the 102 have been with cars that already had headers. However, I've seen ported ls2 intakes pick up about the same with or without headers. Also, I've done headers once, never again:bomb:. I don't have air tools, or patience, or a lift. I've also done an intake manifold on a 350Z and it was the easiest thing I've ever done to pick up 15hp.

The question isn't should I do headers, it's "should I spend less money and do a FAST 102 that will get me similar gains first?" I will get headers but when I do they are going to be stainless with cats and coated. When I do the 102 I'll be sure to do a before and after dyno so that we can quantify the gains on stock manifolds for future reference.


I think the billet is a waste of money when compared to those.
I'm going to do the Billet rails for show anyways, I just wanted to know if there would be an added bonus of lowering the injector duty cycle by any meaningful amount.

Your right, all the gains I've seen with the 102 have been with cars that already had headers. However, I've seen ported ls2 intakes pick up about the same with or without headers. Also, I've done headers once, never again:bomb:. I've also done an intake manifold on a 350Z and it was the easiest thing I've ever done.

When I do this I'll be sure to do a before and after dyno so that we know the gains on stock manifolds.

Yeah the intake will be simple in comparison, I was just saying if you can turn a wrench to do one, you can do the other. It is frustrating though, so if you got the dough I see why you wouldnt want to do it.

Itll be interesting to see the gains, so you are going to port it?

Yeah the intake will be simple in comparison, I was just saying if you can turn a wrench to do one, you can do the other. It is frustrating though, so if you got the dough I see why you wouldnt want to do it.

Itll be interesting to see the gains, so you are going to port it?

Probably, I use Lethal Performance and they do have a ported version for around $130 more. if it's only worth 2hp than forget it but if its worth more I will. I need to do more research on that.

Probably, I use Lethal Performance and they do have a ported version for around $130 more. if it's only worth 2hp than forget it but if its worth more I will. I need to do more research on that.

Probably not much difference right now If I had to guess, but that port work will shine later with some headers and a cam.

Probably not much difference right now If I had to guess, but that port work will shine later with some headers and a cam.

I'm not gonna cam it, just going to do full bolt ons and hopefully be in or close to the 11's. Then I'll move onto suspension, this thing drives like a speedboat lol.

I have actually done this. I had an LQ9 that was fairly stock. Gained 21rwhp and power accross the board.

1. Had 799 heads(243 equivalent)
2. Had OEM truck cam smaller than LS2 (190s @ .050 and .460/.470 lift) :(
3. Had OEM exhaust manifolds with an aftermarket exhuast/muffler
4. OEM LS2 90mm DBW throttle body, used on FAST as well
5. Had LS2 intake manifold

So basically an iron LS2 with a little smaller camshaft. I dynoed my truck and immediatly swapped the intake with the truck still on the rollers, NO tuning so there was probably more power on the table.

http://inlinethumb03.webshots.com/44418/2186697690060344825S600x600Q85.jpg (http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2186697690060344825WNcDRQ)

Skepticism withdrawn, do the fast haha. Should pick up more with longtubes later. Might look at upgrading to a fast 90 on my bolt on ls1.

Fast 102 cost:$850
Install: DIY
Retune: $50
Gain: 20whp, 30wtq
roughly $45 per HP


You are not going to gain that much hp/tq with a FAST102 on the stock heads/cam/tb and through manifolds. So in the end, the headers will give you more power than the FAST.

I have actually done this. I had an LQ9 that was fairly stock. Gained 21rwhp and power accross the board.


I've also seen a FAST102 gain 6rwhp on a cammed car with headers and 243 heads...so I'll continue with my skepticism until the OP does get the FAST and shows us some results on the stock cam/heads/tb/manifolds.

You are not going to gain that much hp/tq with a FAST102 on the stock heads/cam/tb and through manifolds. So in the end, the headers will give you more power than the FAST.



As long as the fast nets you 15HP and TQ your still at the same HP:$ ratio as longtubes that gain 25HP. Plus it doesn't add nearly as much noise.

There are many graphs showing solid gains from a FAST on an LS2 so your claim of only getting 6hp from a fast is the exception, not the rule.

You are not going to gain that much hp/tq with a FAST102 on the stock heads/cam/tb and through manifolds. So in the end, the headers will give you more power than the FAST.



I've also seen a FAST102 gain 6rwhp on a cammed car with headers and 243 heads...so I'll continue with my skepticism until the OP does get the FAST and shows us some results on the stock cam/heads/tb/manifolds.

Pay attention....read 2 posts above yours.

he gained 21hp and 20ftlbs thru stock manifolds and smaller cam...WITHOUT A TUNE. no reason the OP shouldnt see the same.

so I'll continue with my skepticism until the OP does get the FAST and shows us some results on the stock cam/heads/tb/manifolds.Why does it have to he the OP? I just showed you exactly that? Stock cam/heads/TB/Manifolds.......and my cam was even smallerThere are many graphs showing solid gains from a FAST on an LS2 so your claim of only getting 6hp from a fast is the exception, not the rule.Agreed! Its nothing more than bad data.Pay attention....read 2 posts above yours.

he gained 21hp and 20ftlbs thru stock manifolds and smaller cam...WITHOUT A TUNE. no reason the OP shouldnt see the same.What you dont see is that those are average files. I did three runs with the stock manifold and they layed over each other, I then averaged them to get the graph.

Then swapped manifolds and did three more runs, and averaged them. So these are "actual" gains, not some "glory pull" that you cant back up.

What you dont see is that those are average files. I did three runs with the stock manifold and they layed over each other, I then averaged them to get the graph.

Then swapped manifolds and did three more runs, and averaged them. So these are "actual" gains, not some "glory pull" that you cant back up.

:bs::bs::bs::bs::bs:

lies! it was a fluke...you had the leaf blower stuffed down her throat...NO WAY IN HELL!!!

:bs::bs::bs::bs::bs:




;)

:bs::bs::bs::bs::bs:

lies! it was a fluke...you had the leaf blower stuffed down her throat...NO WAY IN HELL!!!

:bs::bs::bs::bs::bs:




;)

:werd:

actually if you have a ls2 intake you will pick up a ton swapping out that shitty intake, you would actualy gain about 6 tp 7 rwhp if you put a ls6 intake in place of the ls2, ls2 intakes suck. however if you had a ls6 intake or ls3 intake you would only see about a 7-10 rwhp gain

actually if you have a ls2 intake you will pick up a ton swapping out that shitty intake, you would actualy gain about 6 tp 7 rwhp if you put a ls6 intake in place of the ls2, ls2 intakes suck. however if you had a ls6 intake or ls3 intake you would only see about a 7-10 rwhp gain

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you need the ls1 style fuel rails and injectors to run the LS6 intake?

Seems like if you have an LS2 you may as well buy a FAST because the injectors and rails on top of the LS6 manifold would probably be close to the same price.

I would also think that the Ls1 injectors would hit full duty cycle pretty fast on an LS2.

Idk about the rail, but you can get an ls6 intake and rail pretty cheap 350-400. And im pretty sure you can just put your ls2 injectors into the ls1/6 rail. Half the cost of a fast

Pay attention....read 2 posts above yours.

he gained 21hp and 20ftlbs thru stock manifolds and smaller cam...WITHOUT A TUNE. no reason the OP shouldnt see the same.


I did read it, and just because someone did it doesn't mean it's the rule...

As long as the fast nets you 15HP and TQ your still at the same HP:$ ratio as longtubes that gain 25HP. Plus it doesn't add nearly as much noise.


A FAST is $800...headers can be had for $500.

How is 15hp for $800 is the same hp:$ ratio as 25hp for $500?

Even if you buy more expensive headers, 25hp for $800 is still better ratio than 15hp for $800.

And just because you didn't do it, doesn't make it the rule either. More people have picked up more than 6 HP like You stated than haven't.

Sorry, your not convincing anyone of anything here.

And just because you didn't do it, doesn't make it the rule either. More people have picked up more than 6 HP like You stated than haven't.

Sorry, your not convincing anyone of anything here.

Yeah, and how many people have picked 20+ hp on an otherwise stock engine with no headers or tune besides that one dude?

Don't think the other person gaining that much is convincing anyone either. Because the whole world of modding LS engines would be upside down as noone would EVER do headers as their first mod when a FAST intake that is 10x easier to install gains as much power.

noone would EVER do headers as their first mod when a FAST intake that is 10x easier to install gains as much power.

But that's what we just found out. Despite evidence, you refuse to believe the data, its not our problem. An 850$ FAST 102 is better bang for buck than 1500$ on headers.

:gtfo:

Your the one who is refusing to believe the evidence.

Obviously 1 more person than has only gained 6hp as you state. I have yet to see any facts brought fourth that it's only good for 6hp...other than "what you seen"

Well I saw a stock 4th gen 6 banger with a fast intake duct taped to the 3.8 put john force on the trailer...that don't make it true now does it?

I really want the OP to do it, to see if he gets similar gains as the truck 6.0,which is very impressive. Until then this is all speculation. OP isnt buying headers period, he doesnt want it to be that loud. So I think the FAST is a good way to go regardless if hes lookin for max effort bolt ons minus headers.

Side note, got a friend who doesnt post on forums, but running a full exhaust 05 gto. Hes considering doing the 102 as well, stock tb, rails and injectors. If he does Ill be sure to post results in here.

But that's what we just found out. Despite evidence, you refuse to believe the data, its not our problem. An 850$ FAST 102 is better bang for buck than 1500$ on headers.


So why are you here asking about this? Go and do your FAST102 and prove me wrong and everyone else right?

Also like others have mentioned, 1 person doing it isn't exactly "evidence".

Why is that one person swapping manifolds and gaining 20hp evidence, but my buddy doing the same swap and gaining 6 not? I posted a result I observed, someone else posted a result they observed. But mine is not "evidence" while his is...

Why is that one person swapping manifolds and gaining 20hp evidence, but my buddy doing the same swap and gaining 6 not? I posted a result I observed, someone else posted a result they observed. But mine is not "evidence" while his is...

Your data goes against every other dyno out there. I could believe 6whp on ls3 heads or over an ls6 intake, but not on cathedral port heads over an Ls2 intake.

You value your single "my friend and I" dyno over a commonly held theory backed up with numerous dynos. What's more likely, that your dyno test was right or that all these dynos tests were wrong or that your single anomaly? It is the equivalent of denying gravity exists because you and your friend saw someone levitate at a magic show.

21 hp, 29tq HERE (http://www.corvetteonline.com/news/video-fast-lsxr-intake-manifold-shows-big-rwhp-gains-on-ls2-c6/) on an LS2 With Bolt ons.

23hp/25tq HERE (http://www.ls1gto.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6913892) with 102 TB over an ls2 Intake.

35 hp HERE (http://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamometer-results-comparisons/1513065-fast102-92-vs-ls6-cam-only-ls1.html) with a retune over an LS6 intake on cam only ls1.

32hp and 35 ft lbs HERE (http://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iv-external-engine/1421556-fast-102-ls2-results.html) with injectors on a cammed ls2.

42hp and 36 Tq from FAST with portingHERE (http://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iv-external-engine/1245953-vengeance-ported-fast-lsxr-102mm-intake-picks-up-42rwhp-36rwtq-stock-cube-ls2.html) before a tune, over stock ls2 intake on a H/C motor.

The LS2 Intake is a POS and the FAST will make lots of power on an LS2, end of story.

Your data goes against every other dyno out there. I could believe 6whp on ls3 heads or over an ls6 intake, but not on cathedral port heads over an Ls2 intake.

You value your single "my friend and I" dyno over a commonly held theory backed up with numerous dynos. What's more likely, that your dyno test was wrong or that all these dynos tests were wrong and yours was the only one we should listen too? It is the equivalent of denying gravity because you and your friend saw someone levitate at a magic show.


Not saying that his 6rwhp is the norm or right, but it is what it is. I also don't think that 20rwhp on a stock car with no tuning is the norm either (on a truck engine with a smaller cam no less). Yes the LS2 intake is crap, but it's not that bad that a simple $800 manifold will gain you a solid 20+rwhp with nothing else.

You have shown me results tuned on bolt on and cammed cars. Other mods, especially headers, heads and cam will make a huge difference in how a fast manifold will react. So seeing how the average of a tuned car with cam is between 25-35rwhp I don't see how you can expect a 20rwhp gain on a car with no headers, cam or heads.

Go on ls1gto and post this same question, what mod should be next and I guarantee you a majority of people will say headers.

And idk if I'd want to spend $1500 on a bunch of pipes. There are high quality headers to be had for under 1k, I got my kooks headers and cats for $775 and pick up 27rwhp throughout the curve unlike a FAST which will most likely lose power under 5k and only make more power after.

Not saying that his 6rwhp is the norm or right, but it is what it is. I also don't think that 20rwhp on a stock car with no tuning is the norm either.

You have shown me results tuned on bolt on and cammed cars. Other mods, especially headers, heads and cam will make a huge difference in how a fast manifold will react. So seeing how the average of a tuned car with cam is between 20-30rwhp I don't see how you can expect a 20rwhp gain on a car with no headers, cam or heads.

Because SweetS10V8 did it with an even smaller cam than I have.

Besides, thats like arguing that I won't see significant gains from a cam unless I do headers first... The fact is the Ls2 is heavily restricted on both the intake and exhaust manifold.


And idk if I'd want to spend $1500 on a bunch of pipes. There are high quality headers to be had for under 1k, I got my kooks headers and cats for $775 and pick up 27rwhp throughout the curve unlike a FAST which will most likely lose power under 5k and only make more power after.
I would not install my headers without cats, without a coating, and without stainless steel. Maryland speed has those kooks you are talking about for 1495$, even uncoated and cat less they come to 1,151$. If you can get kooks with midpipes for 775$ then you should be a vendor.

Because SweetS10V8 did it with an even smaller cam than I have.

So if one person does this then it's all of a sudden the norm? Not saying I don't believe he did it because he obviously has proof, but it's not like from now on all stock engines will gain that same power untuned because one person did.

Besides, thats like arguing that I won't see significant gains from a cam unless I do headers first... The fact is the Ls2 is heavily restricted on both the intake and exhaust manifold.

That's true that it is, but there's a reason that for the past 15 years that the Gen III/IV has been out that 95% of the time people recommend headers as the first mod. So all these years we were all doing it wrong when a simple intake manifold is the better way to go?

So if one person does this then it's all of a sudden the norm? Not saying I don't believe he did it because he obviously has proof, but it's not like from now on all stock engines will gain that same power untuned.

He is the only datapoint, based on that and the other gains I would say yes its safe to assume you would get 20whp from a fast on manifolds.

That's true that it is, but there's a reason that for the past 15 years that the Gen III/IV has been out that 95% of the time people recommend headers as the first mod. So all these years we were all doing it wrong when a simple intake manifold is the better way to go?

Actually people have been swapping to LS6 intakes for a long time. Also the LS2 intake was a step backwards from the ls1 and only made for a few years.


10char

Ok, then I look forward to your results :usa:

416, FAST102,90tb, TFS 235 stock headers and xhaust, c5z cam resulted in 485/525 on avg max pull 496/530.

Headers plus cam in sig max 566/510

The fast works pretty good even without exhaust.

LS2 intake is junk.

I see your thought process here. But before you go crazy with things, think your entire process through. Porting the FAST will do nothing for your mild bolt on car. You are not going to see the typical gains associated with header equipped cars, because you have now only solved half of the equation. A FAST requires a retune. Headers you can go a few months without retuning. Buy cheaper headers and do it yourself if you're pinching pennies to mod. cramming air is not nearly as effective if you can't get it out.

I agree that the FAST is an awesome piece, I have one. But I completely agree with the folks that are trying to get you to see this from a little bit larger field of view.

LS2 intake is junk.

I see your thought process here. But before you go crazy with things, think your entire process through. Porting the FAST will do nothing for your mild bolt on car. You are not going to see the typical gains associated with header equipped cars, because you have now only solved half of the equation. A FAST requires a retune. Headers you can go a few months without retuning. Buy cheaper headers and do it yourself if you're pinching pennies to mod. cramming air is not nearly as effective if you can't get it out.

I agree that the FAST is an awesome piece, I have one. But I completely agree with the folks that are trying to get you to see this from a little bit larger field of view.

Either way I would get a retune since its only 50$.

But I'm about to call Maryland Speed and order the FAST and some stepped Kooks so I guess we will never find out.

Looks like you have it all figured out, then! Should do very well.

If you like the $/hp metric for performance, you should do the calculations on a nitrous system. Good system with all the accessories will be in the same cost range as the FAST manifold but can get you 150 or more hp depending on how brave you are.

If your getting it, speed engineering has it for 807.00 w/ free shipping. Just saying...

http://speed-eng.com/store/fast-lsxr-102mm-intake-ls1-car-p-11328.html?osCsid=64f0f2d268aeac64c279c92bcaa652e1

Waiting for results!

pick up 27rwhp throughout the curve unlike a FAST which will most likely lose power under 5k and only make more power after.This is pure ignorance. If you were at all informed you would know that the FAST makes power throughout the entire curve, thats how its designed!!!! My dyno graph doesnt show any losses, neither does anyone else typically, your not doing your due dilligence before posting your falacies as fact. (The problem is that there are a lot of people who dont know, then read incorrect stuff like you posted, and regurgitate it. Then eveyone is less smart, and I[and other informed people] have to explain things 100 times..)

FAST could make an intake that made more peak power, but it would lose low end, but then you just have a plastic Edelbrock intake....

I will post things I have for sale in the classifieds, as per the rules of the forum... :)

So I got my FAST102 on without a tune and wow the butt dyno says much quicker. Also had my stock TB ported at the same time. She even pulls from about 45mph in 6th, which is crazy. 60-80 in 6th is also very easy. Sorry no dyno :(

i would do the headers first headers are probably the single best mod that you can do to a lsx engine and it will let you take full advantage of any other mods you do in the future

What he said. It has been proven time after time.

Good choice OP. Im not sure why anyone looks at an LS2 intake and decides to do anything but sell it