Drag Racing Tech - 4150 Throttlebody with speed density tune or carb hat to MAF and air lid?

I just got a 4150 throttlebody for my vic jr intake and also ordered a regular sunoco bolt on hood, so it will be about 4-5" from the windshield to get air. Should I get a speed density tune and run with a filter on top of the throttlebody and remove it at the track, or put on a carb hat and run it through my MAF sensor and air lid? I was quoted $500 for an SD tune and was told that the tune will constantly change due to weather and I would have to keep getting it retuned. Thats why I was thinking of just getting a carb hat, but I would think it would cause it to loose power. My car lost 20rwhp when I put on a low profile elbow and I would think I would see similar results with a carb hat. I hardly drive the car on the street. I just drive it to the track down the street and maybe to work here and there if I feel like it. I am going to start working on the car today so any help, advise, and opinions are greatly appreciated!

For mine I did the carb hat and maf. I used a spectre performance carb hat (4in inlet) and one of their 4in flex hoses, and then used the Texas Speed 100mm maf and the FTP 104mm air lid. Basically keeping it 4in from airlid to throttle body.

Yeah that's exactly what I was thinking of doing, but I don't think it would have any gains over an open throttlebody with a cowl hood...but I'm not really sure. I just know that I have a low profile elbow with a stock throttlebody on the car now and it robbed a lot of power when I put that on, and a carb hat is basically an elbow ya know.

A maf on a track only car is like tits on a boar hog to me. While you DO have to make minor changes for weather it's not like it won't run if it's tuned at 80* and the temp drops to 40*. Once you have the tables worked on, it will still modify for inlet temp and varying BARO. It still has functional fuel trim, you just need to keep tabs on it. I would suggest buying an interface and ditching the maf.

For mine I did the carb hat and maf. I used a spectre performance carb hat (4in inlet) and one of their 4in flex hoses, and then used the Texas Speed 100mm maf and the FTP 104mm air lid. Basically keeping it 4in from airlid to throttle body.

Jeeves you should test that setup, Been done many times, and its always between about a 40, to a 60 WHP loss :bomb:
4150 with a carb hat, to a tube (maf to lid or no maf with open cone filter) over the open TB or a flat base pan or air cleaner setup

The carb hat and a tube with a filter does have a use, you just take it off @ the track.... But to leave it on, is foolish. Mine as well leave a stock style intake on

Yeah I was thinking the carb hat wouldnt be as good as an open 4150 with a cowl hood. I wish I could tune it myself but I wouldnt even know where to start. Looks like I will just do an open throttlebody and have an SD tune put on the car. I really want to buy the HP Tuners software, but like I said I have no idea what to do or where to start.

Just put a little fitter o. For street use. It will choke the motor, but at least if will save the engine. Pull it off for racing, simple

Carb hats/elbows are awful for NA performance. Air comes in all screwed up and doesnt distribute properly, I don't think a 60hp loss is blowing it out of proportion either-its THAT bad.
If you are not going to be adjusting the tune for weather conditions I'd just stick to the factory style intake, if your determined to use your top mount tb then u really should familiarize yourself with what tuning adjustments need to be made. :nod:

Thanks guys! Yeah I have to use the vic jr and 4150 set up, I got rid of my LS6 intake about 6 months ago, plus I think I could only probably get $500 for the set up if I sell it. A buddy of mine fabbed up a filter for me to use on the street then I'll pull it off at the track like JL suggested. I guess I will choke up the money for the SD tune, then start saving and later on get the HP Tuners software and try to figure out how to tune and hope I dont blow my engine lol

Jeeves you should test that setup, Been done many times, and its always between about a 40, to a 60 WHP loss :bomb:
4150 with a carb hat, to a tube (maf to lid or no maf with open cone filter) over the open TB or a flat base pan or air cleaner setup


Ya I know its not ideal, but there is no room under my hood for an air cleaner, so thats why I went with that. I just bought a new hood that is going to give me a lot more space, so I will probably get an air cleaner and get it retuned for SD. I'll be sure to make a run with it as it is now before I swap so i can see how big of a change there is.

http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=468985&page=2

http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=468985&page=2

Pretty nice set up.

http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=468985&page=2

That's what I'm going to do!
Been trying to find a good way to get air to the 4150.
Going with the VFN 5" Extended Sloped Hood.

Thanks alot of good info

Wow... $500 for a tune seems a little absurd. Especially for an n/a setup.

the air pan works pretty well. it dropped the iats about 30*.

Wow... $500 for a tune seems a little absurd. Especially for an n/a setup.

Not at all, u get what u pay for. ;)
Also it has to do with location. More overhead companies have to charge more.

subhuman did you make that air pan?

The pan is made my all star performance and the air bell is from quick fuel. You have to do a lot of cutting and fitting on the pan to make it fit.

Sub what have you run with the car now with the air pan and converter change? You e got to be I. Your way to .50's with it no?

The pan is made my all star performance and the air bell is from quick fuel. You have to do a lot of cutting and fitting on the pan to make it fit.

Thanks for the info. Looks good.

jay, I haven't had time to change anything on it yet. Probably order the converter this week and then see what the time frame is for the mast 4500 intake.

The pan is made my all star performance and the air bell is from quick fuel. You have to do a lot of cutting and fitting on the pan to make it fit.

Do you have the part #s for the pan and air bell.
Where did you order them from.
Just want to make sure I get the right ones.
Thanks

Do you have the part #s for the pan and air bell.
Where did you order them from.
Just want to make sure I get the right ones.
Thanks

Both of the numbers are from summit:

AAF-ALL26100

QFT-200-1

Mast intake will sit a bunch higher, I hope it doesn't cause ya to have to redo the pan! I'd think you would want to go to the 4500 tb at the same time no?

The converter I still think is going to really make the difference. You get an 8 inch 5800 to 6000 in with that bad boy, and get the intake on there so it will pull to 8000 and it's going to really wake up, probably 50 hp more then it's making now, and the converter, well ya better strap that front end down or you're likely to flip the car over!

Mast intake will sit a bunch higher, I hope it doesn't cause ya to have to redo the pan! I'd think you would want to go to the 4500 tb at the same time no?

The converter I still think is going to really make the difference. You get an 8 inch 5800 to 6000 in with that bad boy, and get the intake on there so it will pull to 8000 and it's going to really wake up, probably 50 hp more then it's making now, and the converter, well ya better strap that front end down or you're likely to flip the car over!

yea, i will be redoing the pan as i am going to a 4500. not a big deal as i know what i need to do to make it work now. although i dont think i will be putting the iat sensor in it this time, i will just put it behind the headlight somewhere. its still a mismatched combo for sure. 6.26 1/8th so far. the car runs hard as hell on the top end though. might regear it too.

Both of the numbers are from summit:

AAF-ALL26100

QFT-200-1

Thank you Sir!
Why are you moving the iat sensor?

its getting really heat soaked in the pan.

yea, i will be redoing the pan as i am going to a 4500. not a big deal as i know what i need to do to make it work now. although i dont think i will be putting the iat sensor in it this time, i will just put it behind the headlight somewhere. its still a mismatched combo for sure. 6.26 1/8th so far. the car runs hard as hell on the top end though. might regear it too.

You know what it needs... that converter change, along with a set of 4.56 gears is going to really wake the car up. Wheelie bars highly suggested too :drive:

If you can, spring for a sheet metal intake, and just put a 2nd 4150 on that (run 2) I think there's another 50 hp in that motor, plus it will pull right up to and probably past 8000 rpm too that way.... even the mast intake with a single 4500 is going to be a big improvement.