View Full Version : LY6 street build (mostly)


Hy82e
04-28-2012, 11:23 PM
I have a 1982 Regal that I am swapping a LY6 into. It has come time in my build where I need to choose a cam. This is my first build so I am not going pretend I know it all, so I am reaching out to my fellow ls1tech'ers,..ies,..oids...(whatever) for some opinions or personal experience.

This be the plan:
1982 Regal
'08 Ly6, stock dished valve relief pistons, vvt removed, (10k motor so I don't have plans to do anything internally
L92 heads stock, I will mill as much as I can safely to bump compression would like to see at least 10:5
LS3 intake, 90mm TB
LT headers, no cats, dual exhaust
4l60e 3200-3600 stall
3.23-3.42 in the back

These be the goals:
100% daily driver
good mpg's
good drive ability
easy life for the valve train
at least 420rwhp/400rwtq

Ok so moving on to the point:
I have narrowed it down to an Eps cam for sure. I have it narrowed down to
a) 222/230 .600 ish lift on a 114 lsa or
b) 226/234 .600 ish lift on a 113 lsa

I actually already put in the order for cam (a), but Geoff gave me a couple days to change my mind.

I know either cam will meet most of my goals. (a) will be a blast around town and perform in the range that i will use the car on a daily basis, but will it let me down at the track when I get that urge to Go Fast! and well (b) i know is going to give more mid to high range, but at what cost to my daily fun.

help me out tech.

Jimbo1367
04-28-2012, 11:35 PM
Sounds close to my stangnant build. Pics?

1989GTA
04-29-2012, 12:04 AM
Being as it is a 100% daily driver and mpg is also one criteria I was wondering why you are removing the VVT?

Hy82e
04-29-2012, 12:10 AM
Sounds close to my stangnant build. Pics?

no pics worth showing really, but.... whats a thread without pics?

shes not much to look at now, but thats my girl. Body is 99% straight, and after new carpet, headliner, and a shampoo the interior will be in excellent driver condition.

http://i883.photobucket.com/albums/ac34/EMCKS/IMG_20120325_1859462.jpg

This one is just to confirm that my TB and F.E.A.D. are not going to live in harmony.

http://i883.photobucket.com/albums/ac34/EMCKS/IMG_20120422_2131572.jpg

Once I get my cam in I'll measure clearances I'll start the tear down and get the heads cleaned and shaved. but all this is happening on a budget so it will go slooow..

anyways, back to business, any advice on the thread topic?

Hy82e
04-29-2012, 12:36 AM
Being as it is a 100% daily driver and mpg is also one criteria I was wondering why you are removing the VVT?

I actually thought about this for some time. In the end I just decided it is too new a concept for the ls world, R&D in the aftermarket is still not great (in numbers). At this point in time from what I found in my research, I feel any benefit to be had does not justify the weak link its extra moving parts could create. Hopefully the system keeps improving and by the time i get that itch for change any new development will re-install as easily as this one.

Hy82e
04-29-2012, 12:23 PM
Bump, for some help.

1989GTA
04-29-2012, 01:16 PM
"In the end I just decided it is too new a concept for the ls world"

Fair enough. I am putting a L92/6L80E into a 1965 Buick Skylark. We have very similar goals. I am going to keep the VVT and go with the Texas Speed VVT-3 camshaft setup. It also comes the software tables for the VVT cam. In fact I am looking hard at the whole TSP package which includes a head exchange with new double springs, valve job, CNC porting, milling, VVT-3 camshaft and all the gaskets etc to change it all out.

I am also looking at the Yank SS3600 torque converter. I had one in my 1989 Trans Am and it drove almost like stock. The new owner of it feels the same way. I think I will also go with gearing in the 3:27 range. I am leaning towards 1 7/8" long tube headers and like you no cats involved. I think I will go with 3" Magnaflow straight through mufflers. Good luck with your project.

Hy82e
05-01-2012, 10:52 AM
No input?

-TheBandit-
05-01-2012, 11:11 AM
For your FEAD, there is a simple way to relocate your idler which I outlined here:
http://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iv-external-engine/1322247-l92-ly6-truck-ls3-l76-l99-car-intake-manifold.html

Hy82e
05-01-2012, 12:21 PM
Thanks Bandit, you just read my mind. That is exactly the same scenerios i keep running in my mind. Lately I have been leaning a little more on the 226/234 cam. I am thinking if I am going to set the motor up for max or at least better compression it will be better to set it up with the larger duration cam. That way if I feel that I would have been happier with a torque monster I can change to the 222/230 cam and not have to worry about pulling the heads and checking the clearance and all that.
But man I hate the idea of doing things twice.
Yeah I have been re-thinking the stall size. I dont actually have the tranny or converter yet. I am thinking max stall will probably be a 3000.

Thanks for the link on the FEAD.

Hy82e
05-01-2012, 04:21 PM
Dam'it i just put my order with Eps on hold until next week to sleep on this one some more.

-TheBandit-
05-01-2012, 05:54 PM
LOL. Get an ARP crank bolt so you can reuse it, just in case. Ask around; there are likely plenty of people in the DFW area running cammed LSxs, maybe even a few with LS3/L92 heads; perhaps someone will give you a ride.

Hy82e
05-01-2012, 06:29 PM
Yeah, I better look in to a 2 piece front cover haha.

Hy82e
05-07-2012, 01:04 PM
any other words of wisdom guys? Trying to commit to one of these buy this Friday.

Jimbo1367
05-08-2012, 01:08 PM
I am going to keep the VVT and go with the Texas Speed VVT-3 camshaft setup. It also comes the software tables for the VVT cam. In fact I am looking hard at the whole TSP package which includes a head exchange with new double springs, valve job, CNC porting, milling, VVT-3 camshaft and all the gaskets etc to change it all out.

.

If I understand things correctly...... You will need to use TSPs VVT springs vs. the springs that come with the CNC head exchaNGE PACKAGE. TSP might have tyhe option of no springs.:search:

1989GTA
05-08-2012, 02:01 PM
If I understand things correctly...... You will need to use TSPs VVT springs vs. the springs that come with the CNC head exchaNGE PACKAGE. TSP might have tyhe option of no springs.:search:

You are right on the need to use the TSP VVT valve springs. From what I have read that is part of the total head/cam/gaskets package. I will be buying it next month and will inquire further with TSP to make sure. I am also thinking about backing down on the camshaft to the VVT-2 version. From what I understand it is in the mid 220's on intake duration.

Jimbo1367
05-09-2012, 09:59 AM
I am also thinking about backing down on the camshaft to the VVT-2 version. From what I understand it is in the mid 220's on intake duration.

Try it out and let "US"(ME) know what ya think of it. I am concidering it too.

1989GTA
05-09-2012, 01:01 PM
Try it out and let "US"(ME) know what ya think of it. I am concidering it too.

I am in the parts gathering phase and that depends on my income flow as to how fast that happens. Then on to prepping the car for the swap out. Realistically it will probably be November before I do the change over. From what I have read the L92/LS3 heads to not need a big camshaft to perform well.

roach4047
05-10-2012, 10:48 PM
I'm no expert and I could be way off on this thought as well but what about going with the bigger cam so you can get that top end and toss a truck intake on top. That will fix the TB FEAD issue and I believe more torque for down low/daily driving since it's a truck intake with the longer runners.

I'm sure somebody else with more knowledge than myself will set the record straight if it turns out that my thinking is flawed.

Roach

Hy82e
05-11-2012, 01:53 PM
I'm no expert and I could be way off on this thought as well but what about going with the bigger cam so you can get that top end and toss a truck intake on top. That will fix the TB FEAD issue and I believe more torque for down low/daily driving since it's a truck intake with the longer runners.

I'm sure somebody else with more knowledge than myself will set the record straight if it turns out that my thinking is flawed.

Roach
I have not thought of this. Hmmm... In theory it is an excellent idea. I did a google search but could not find any comparisons made in this decade. Hopefully someone with some experiance will chime in. Longer runners do traditionaly increase low end, but man those truck intakes are UGLY, lol.. IMO sorry guys.

As far as I know Fast is not doing any truck square ports, maybe that is saying something about it.

First dumb question of the day, but would advancing the cam slightly equal the same results as the intake swap, or does that approach resolve my powerband goals in general?That would just leave me with street manner concerns.

Nobody is using this cam daily with an auto?

Hy82e
05-14-2012, 06:51 PM
Order is in 226/234 113+3 lsa

Hy82e
06-01-2012, 08:38 PM
my cam came in today :) Although it came in as 226/234 113(+2) vs (+3)?? I will call Geoff on Monday, maybe i goofed on that detail.
Any input for my limited knowledge on the difference in cam characteristics that will make?
Either way need to quit bs'ing and get a new timing set and headgaskets coming to me. And start recruiting some help with degreeing, and checking PtoV.

dougs79z28
06-05-2012, 07:17 AM
Patrick spec'd my setup as this for my stealth 79 z28 (4000lb w/me). Told him I wanted good vacuum and idle at 750 followed by street performance. (08 LY6 pullout)

On the attached sheet, please find your custom 222/230 .597/.609" 114LSA +4 camshaft recommendation. This profile features Endurance lobes on the intake from EPS for maximum power under the curve. These lobes are very stable at high rpm with a wide variety of valve springs. For the exhaust, I have chosen the all-new LXL lobes from Comp. These lobes are specifically made for sustained high rpm road race applications and they give outstanding control under boost and will have much less sewing machine noise than typical high-lift lobes. They are excellent in their high rpm stability and will give much better valve control than the popular XE-R, LSL, LSK, XFI lobes from Comp.

To raise your compression from a stock 9.6:1 to 10.2: 1, I am recommending that you mill the heads .018" and use a thinner .040" Cometic head gasket. This will give you another 2% increase in hp and tq. You can order this cam and any other valvetrain components you wish (like springs, pushrods, timing set, etc.) from Geoff Skinner at Engine Power Systems. Any questions, please write back.

Patrick Guerra - The Guerra Group - 114 Spokane Avenue - Victoria, Tx. 77904 - 361.576.5917 office - 361.576.5928 fax - 713.306.9990 cell - www.guerragroup.com

73metalman
06-05-2012, 09:51 AM
Hm, kinda browsed through. Personally, I would keep the motor stock (save yourself a lot of headache with upgrades) and put the 6l80E behind it. That first gear is pretty damn low. Thinking in only HP is old school. Go with gearing. The price difference between the 4l60e/6l80 is probably the same or less in performance upgrades, and you can keep your mpg. In fact get a pullout with the stock trans. Then just reprogram the basic tune, maybe some shift points on the stock ECM and call it good. You're probably going to have to change the rear end too so upgrade the gears also.

Hy82e
06-05-2012, 02:26 PM
NHm, kinda browsed through. Personally, I would keep the motor stock (save yourself a lot of headache with upgrades) and put the 6l80E behind it. That first gear is pretty damn low. Thinking in only HP is old school. Go with gearing. The price difference between the 4l60e/6l80 is probably the same or less in performance upgrades, and you can keep your mpg. In fact get a pullout with the stock trans. Then just reprogram the basic tune, maybe some shift points on the stock ECM and call it good. You're probably going to have to change the rear end too so upgrade the gears also.

I'm glad you bring this up. Actually I have pretty much abandoned the idea of using the 4l60e. As you mentioned we all know that well built 60e will respectfully live behind big power, but at what cost?
My motor came from a '08 3500 series so the original tranny was a 6l90e. I have been finding low mile <60k from 1000-1300. My understanding is that behind my 500-550 fwhp a completely stock 6l90e will be fine. The main con with the 6l's is fit, they are much deeper than the 4l's and I plan to lower my car about 2". So I have to do more homework.
The other option for me is the 4l80e. Easier swap, and with a near stock rebuild will also handle the power I expect to make. The concerns I have with the 80e is the lazy 1st gear. And before the 4l80e guys get on me I know most swaps improve there ET's, but I won't be at the track everyday.

futureuser
06-06-2012, 11:29 AM
N
The concerns I have with the 80e is the lazy 1st gear. And before the 4l80e guys get on me I know most swaps improve there ET's, but I won't be at the track everyday.


The 80 has the same first gear as a th400 and has more evenly spaced gears. With a 4L60/700r4 you get a huge rpm drop going into second gear (see numbers below) and it's not very strong. A nice converter in the 80 will more than make up for it's first gear. I got curious so I did a little research:

4L60: 3.059-1.625-1-0.696

4l80: 2.48-1.48-1-0.75 (same first 3 as th400)

th350: 2.52-1.52-1 (about the same as th400)

th200-4r: 2.74-1.57-1-0.67

It's no wonder the 200-4r has picked up quite a following. It runs without electronics, has great gearing, doesn't rob much power and can be bulletproof. Just not cheap to build one right.

Still, if you can pull it off, there is no substitute for the 6L transmission. You should be able to use the factory pcm and program to control it. If you use a 4L80, you will probably need a program from a van like mine to control it.

Hy82e
06-06-2012, 12:25 PM
^^^ what he said ^^^

coverman66
06-07-2012, 02:36 PM
Hey gentleman, im about to turn the key in a few weeks on my 71 chevelle with a vvt ly6 6.0 with a 06 gto t56 spd. my engine came out of a 08 silverado, so i called tsp and got the vvt3 cam and springs. tsp seems to have done their homework when it come to the vvt. i was going to delete mine, but i thought what the hell try it out and see what happens. wish me luck boys...

futureuser
06-07-2012, 11:09 PM
Hey gentleman, im about to turn the key in a few weeks on my 71 chevelle with a vvt ly6 6.0 with a 06 gto t56 spd. my engine came out of a 08 silverado, so i called tsp and got the vvt3 cam and springs. tsp seems to have done their homework when it come to the vvt. i was going to delete mine, but i thought what the hell try it out and see what happens. wish me luck boys...

Good luck! Please post results.

LongIsland63SS409
07-04-2012, 12:28 PM
Hey gentleman, im about to turn the key in a few weeks on my 71 chevelle with a vvt ly6 6.0 with a 06 gto t56 spd. my engine came out of a 08 silverado, so i called tsp and got the vvt3 cam and springs. tsp seems to have done their homework when it come to the vvt. i was going to delete mine, but i thought what the hell try it out and see what happens. wish me luck boys...

Going the same route!
Bought the VVT3 cam already and will be installing it soon.


Mike

1989GTA
07-04-2012, 01:03 PM
"Going the same route!
Bought the VVT3 cam already and will be installing it soon."

Same here with my L92. Also going with the PRC heads in a package deal from TSP.

Hy82e
07-04-2012, 01:49 PM
It is exciting waiting to see these results, I put a lot of thought whether to keep or delete vvt good luck everyone. My cam still sits brand new in the box, since I have no plans to fire my motor up this year I have decided to focus my time and money on frame, brakes, and suspension, but ask me again tomorrow the plan might change lol. Oh well as just need to keep plugging away at it.

LongIsland63SS409
11-21-2012, 07:54 AM
Hey gentleman, im about to turn the key in a few weeks on my 71 chevelle with a vvt ly6 6.0 with a 06 gto t56 spd. my engine came out of a 08 silverado, so i called tsp and got the vvt3 cam and springs. tsp seems to have done their homework when it come to the vvt. i was going to delete mine, but i thought what the hell try it out and see what happens. wish me luck boys...

Any updates?

Thanks,
Mike

coverman66
02-13-2013, 06:52 PM
Good luck! Please post results.

here are the results my ls tech amigos...lets recap, 6.0 out of a 09 silverado, t56 6spd tranny, tsp vvt3 cam, intake from a 2010 ls3 vette, pypes 2.5 street pro exhaust system and street and performance headers. let me know what you think fellas


this is the start up

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDI1ENVHL0A


this is the first run, sorry but i had to take it easy.. but i could of easily went thru 3 gears.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=X1iewu3sgpM&feature=endscreen



check out my youtube channel under coverman66 i have videos there that may save you time and money on ls swaps. thanks brothas... see you at a show...

Hy82e
02-13-2013, 08:33 PM
NICE! Congratulations coverman.
Get that thang broken in. Racing season a coming, post the results if you run it. Any plans to put it up on the dyno?
My cam is still in the box:( Not to late for a cam change.

coverman66
02-14-2013, 09:14 AM
yea i did run it on the dyno, it was in the neighborhood of 490 rwhp before the driveshaft kicked out due to a faulty pinion yoke, which ruined the t56 output shaft, the exhaust system, driveshaft and mangled my tunnel. i bought the powr maxx mass air that i never installed..this was back in the summer. the tuner felt i could of gotten over 500hp.. the good news is the car is back together and looking better than ever.. im not going to bring it back to the dyno, those seem to try to sell you services and parts you dont need. im not building a race car, just a fast street cruiser that i can driver everyday if i want. i will run it occassionally, but im not guy that trys to shave off every 1/10 of a sec but dropping tons of money.. if i can break into the 11s, my job is complete..

hears a clip of the dyno disater day.. hard to watch ... lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGiHHiMxHZU