Gears & Axles - Anyone care to read my paint?

10 bolt :(
Richmond 3.73s
Backlash is dead nuts (0.010), Pinion depth is dead nuts according to cheap raytec tool. Preload is 30ftlb. Used a Raytec solid spacer, all new bearings. . .probably saved enough money to pay myself minimum wage for doing the job. . .I had to cut every bearing off and driving the pinion race required the hammer of thor. . .anyway:

Patterns below taken while loading the ring gear with a rolled up leather glove and turning the yoke. Since I've never done this before I thought I'd see if someone that has could have a look and see if they agree that these patterns seem ok. I appreciate you guys.


Drive:
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Coast:
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ttt, anyone?

It's hard to get a good impression with the pictures you've provided. Sounds like you've covered the bases. I got a good pattern with mine by using the same thickness of pinion spacer that GM set it up with originally.

ha, Roger that. . .the so called "paint" included in my install kit appears to be lithium grease.

my pinion depth was within 1 thou (there's that much error msmt to msmt) using the stock shim and ratec tool. thanks for looking though.

I'd add a pinion shim (.003-.005) and shoot for .006 to .007 backlash and she wears she's at.

even if the spec for this set is .010? Richmond is pretty specific about that number. and why shim the pinion and not the ring? the pinion depth is also dead on the spec for this set?

your comment is intriguing and I respect you, so just curious with the questions.

Richmond does not set up every gear set they make. There will always be casting/machining differences. Your pattern is telling us your pinion is sunk too far and your back lash is too tight. When your talking thousandths of an inch with the pattern right in front of you, it's hard for me to Let a guy on the other end of a phone, or a mass printed piece of paper tell me to set it up differently.

Backlash too loose*

ok, that's not what the literature says, the gears are serialized by hand in a matched pair, and the numbers for pinion depth and backlash are engraved by hand in a ground down section of each gear. they specifically state that each pair is run to determine these measurements


that said, they do look deep to me, but I am not sure what I'm looking at.

What i am getting at is, this is someone's job. They get out of bed every morning and come do this. I'm sure they have had a bad day at work.

Also, they have not set them up in YOUR housing. There are just too many variables for me to go by what a piece of paper says when I have hard evidence saying otherwise.

You run those like that and they're gonna be noisy. I promise.

True story ^^^

ok, thanks guys. I'll tear back into it this weekend. . .this is kinda fun, kind not.

^^^I've said that phrase WAY too many times.

OK guys, I mixed up some actual paint this time. Now, can someone explain why these are bad? The drive side especially looks like the ideal pattern shown here as far as I can tell.

http://www.precisiongear.com/pgtechpatterns.htm

Please dont just tell me they will be noisy, it's been said, I've got it, this is not my question.

If I add a pinion shim to this it's going to push the contact pattern further toward the toe (inside of gear), right? I can see that for the coast side, but the drive side looks pretty money to me, and isn't that the side that counts?

Thanks,
Steve

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You definitely need a thicker pinion shim, the pattern is too high on the tooth. The pattern should be centered from flank (root) to face (top). Where the pattern falls heel to toe you don't have much control over.
Read this Yukon Gear Installation Manual:
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:_3dl9-2OSb4J:www.lunghd.com/Downloads_and_Links/Yukon_Gear_ringandpinion.pdf+yukon+gear+installati on+instructions&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESihloRd4SkVCxsxQu5bPpOudEiODOo41n4RNTGy 9Yf_MnJmQScMZbgqGiPLsFPx6HCkC5HitYbzc2vtyp4m6TJF31 0_sIV24juGq8JPOHa7pLr-Glof--Ss1B87QsihKQ6P6JY7&sig=AHIEtbT6q-JVuwnvLLE4VKC_N50v9wV4Fg

Or you can google it and see the pdf file.

Eureka! Thanks guppy, I guess it takes a manimal to talk to a manimal? I was not getting it earlier, clearly. But I dont claim to be even the sharpest spoon in the drawer.

Shit, now I have to get that pinion bearing off. . .I may just go buy myself a press. Ha, consider me a member of the "not doing this again" rearend club.:mad:

I have a set of setup bearings, may have a second set after this is over. . .

I posted in the beginning what you should do. Pinion bearing needs to come off. Add a shim. Reassemble and use the side shims to set backlash to .006-.007 and get back to us with your new pattern.

I posted in the beginning what you should do. Pinion bearing needs to come off. Add a shim. Reassemble and use the side shims to set backlash to .006-.007 and get back to us with your new pattern.

Yes, you did and thank you, and I mean that. That is what I am doing scouts honor. My question this time was more why. I'm trying to understand what you saw, not questioning if it was right. I know from reading your posts here and elsewhere that you know what you're talking about. Weeks before I posted the pattern I convinced myself I was good to go and did the final assembly. . .so now I'm trying to understand what "good" is so I dont have to cut any more bearings off.

I tried to ask this a few posts up and for whatever reason you guys seemed to think I was trying to argue with you. . .I know I dont come across well in type (or in person) so that's probably why. I ask a lot of questions, not because I'm a know it all or something, but because I'm basically clueless.

Oh, and if you guys are feeling really generous, even with a new cheap ass press and a new larger cheap ass splitter I cannot get that frigging inner pinion bearing off. You guys know some trick? The thing seemed to go on easy enough. Cant get between the gear and the inner race, end up tearing the bearing apart, then I cant grip the race anywhere well enough to get it to slide. I came in to check the thread and grab a torch, all I have is propane on hand. I'm out of acetylene.

quick update: within about 0.5 seconds of applying the old blue tipped wrench it came off, literally that fast with pressure applied of course. Hogged out my shims so they fit without bending on the chamfer of the gear and I'm going up 6.5mils. I'm done for the night but i'll get to work with the setup bearings tomorrow.

I like to take an old or new inner pinion and take some ID out with a die grinder. Makes it a slip fit for easy mock up. That's the only way to go IMO. I have a matching outer pinion as well. This will solve all your problems. I've always used the pinion shim to get your pattern right, and the side carrier shims to set your backlash. Meaning, if your pattern is bad, then moving it side to side ain't gonna do shit.

I've got a set of hogged out bearings. your absolutely right, the ONLY way to go.

Wow, shimming the carrier can't help a bad pattern? That nugget of information is a real key piece that I had not realized. thanks man.

I iterated twice on the pinion shims, the first two are drive and coast at +6.5mils from the stock shim, 8 mil backlash. The stock shim was 0.029". The second two are drive and coast at +9mils, 7mil backlash. At least they look different. . .

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That grease/oil/paint is hard to see to me and its easier to find a sasquatch in NH than it is to find car parts (gear marking compound in this instance) so I used some of that red gooey disc brake quietner spray and re-did the pattern for the biggest shims:

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I'll clean the bearings and diff with mineral spirits and then toss them in the parts washer when I get finished setting this up.

Get brake parts cleaner, it can be used to hose the gears off very quickly. Use gear marking compound. Permatex makes some its called Prussian Blue, and should be available at an auto parts store though its getting harder and harder to find these days. Get a small model car brush from the craft section at Wally World for the application of the grease.

I had been trying to get Prussian blue for a couple of weeks around here to check some mating surfaces, but you're lucky if you can get blue permatex gasket maker or anyone that even knows what it is around my house. . .dumbass couldn't find me a pinion bearing under FRONT WHEEL DRIVE. . .gotta watch some of them real close.

anyway, what do you guys think of these? I have no damn clue, do they make this paint in braille?:bang:

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That pinion depth looks good to me. What's your backlash? Kind of like reading a Rorshach test.

Yep looks better. Can you just order some PB online and wait for it to show up?

Ah good ?, same setup as before so .007.

Damn, seriously? That's good depth?

Oh yeah, this is real motive paint. Should be right, right?

I think you're good. Remember in the Yukon manual I referred you to, he says you can't control where the drive and coast patterns fall on the gear from heel to toe. Check out page 14 of the manual and you'll see your pattern is OK.

Yeah, It's just so hard to wrap my head around. I think I'm really starting to like this, It's just so nuanced and excruciating. Like having a cigarette put out in your belly button

Hey guys and fish,

Looking at the Yukon manual that guppy sent I think I might be just a tad too close with the pinion. Page 17 shows what too close patterns look like and page 15 on the right hand side, middle pattern looks pretty close to mine as far as I can tell. . .but what the hell, why cant they just show actual paint instead of "artists renditions?"

All that said, I do not have a lot of options in shims. If I drop back down 0.0025" (yup, that's a small increment my friends) then the pattern is clearly too deep. So what is the thing to do, accept it as close enough and let it eat, lap the shims, go buy some magic shim assortment?

If only there was some way that I could get someone that knows what boudain is to weigh in. A pincher of tails and sucker of heads perhaps? I mean, Giordano's has weighed in from Goose Island already so I need someone with access to good andouille. Yeah, I live in a food desert. . .

Aha, I take it I have said one or more stupid things. Last patterns are as good as i can do without buying other shims or trying to lap. Opinions?