View Full Version : a VERY slow day @work so I made a chart :)


D3VIL
05-05-2012, 02:05 AM
What's up guys! So today was a VERY slow day at work and I am getting VERY close to buying a new car(most likely June) and it is my ONLY car. The purpose of this is to narrow down my next car that I am buying with a budget of $13-16K OTD

But I'm a car enthusiast and love all cars. Appreciate the Light-On-It's-Feet type of cars of Miatas all the way to 600+hp muscle cars, so needless to say I am VERY indecisive.

This chart is just my OPINON not facts, so please do give your bias or unbiased(doubtful) opinions, I've posted this on couple of different forums so I can get every car communities opinions.

I enjoy other people's feedbacks, so please don't hold back :)

http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/1181/carratings.png

D3VIL
05-05-2012, 02:10 AM
My rating methods:

Exterior: Sexyness of the car

Interior: Material and Overall design and comfort

Reliability: If shit goes wrong will it cost arm and a leg. can you beat on this car?

Rare: I like not having a car that you don't see at every corner

MPG: I will be commuting close to 60miles roundtrip everyday starting fall semester so a 30mpg cobalt ss(while still fun) sounds VERY appealing!

Fun: Is it a drivers car? A fat car like str8 300 and being it Auto is less fun IN MY OPINION than a nimble m6 C5, see what I'm saying? hopefully... But a 300 is a comfy badass looking fast straight line cruiser

6898camaross
05-05-2012, 02:17 AM
I say c5 or ls2 goat.

D3VIL
05-05-2012, 02:28 AM
C5 definitely has the fun factor imo

and the GTO has the fun(not as fun as the C5, due to the weight and less sexiness) and the DD comfort that'll be ideal for my fall semester commuting.

But for some reason the GTO just doesn't have... IT! It doesn't have an IT factor, idk how to discribe it... maybe it's because the exterior of the car is so bland? But I don't hate it ether... It just doesn't have one thing that does EXCELLENT, it does many things Very Good, if that makes since...

versz
05-05-2012, 03:38 AM
C5... but if I were in your shoes I'd save up. Get the c5z or use as down payment on c6/z when the c7 is released c6 should come down a bit. That's what Im hoping anyways ;)

firstls1vette
05-05-2012, 03:46 AM
Maybe I'm being a little biased but I'm going to say c5. I think it's a comfortable car to drive for hours on end. Its deffinatly fun. And I get great gas mileage, even after the cam swap.

AronZ28
05-05-2012, 04:12 AM
Maybe I'm being a little biased but I'm going to say c5. I think it's a comfortable car to drive for hours on end. Its deffinatly fun. And I get great gas mileage, even after the cam swap.

I'm not a HUGE fan of the C5 Vette. Granted it looks cool, but the interior is every bit as junky as an fbody. My main beef is that it still has that big/clusmy feel like an fbody, mainly due to it being so wide. The seats suck just as much as an fbody, ie uncomfortable and no lateral support. Plus the steering feel is pretty damn numb, just like an fbody.

If you want to know what good handling, seating position, and steering feel is like, go drive a BMW or a Miata. You feel at one in those cars, in the C5 Vette, its like a 4th gen fbody, you feel distant, remote, removed from the steering wheel.

Anyways, unless its a C5 Z06 with 405hp stock, I think the LS1 fbody is a much better buy. Cheaper, more practical, just as fast, and I personally like the styling better on both the Pontiacs and Camaro.

NC01TA
05-05-2012, 08:24 AM
Personally I would stay away from the foreign stuff on your list due to maintenance costs (been there, done that, and it gets old). With gas being a real concern with a 60 miles daily commute I think you would totally enjoy the Cobalt SS just like you said. If the SS is not 'visual' enough for you and you are leaning towards a Corvette I would just advise to get as low a mileage stock example that you can afford and I don't care what year it is. There are so many Corvettes out there for sale that have been owned by middle aged, and even old guys, that barely used them and are basically excellent used garage kept cars. You would have very few maintenance issues or worries. Have fun with the search!

01 CamaroSS SLP
05-05-2012, 10:01 AM
I say c5 or ls2 goat.

Done :judge:

Z Fury
05-05-2012, 10:30 AM
I'd narrow it down to the C5 or the GTO as well. If MPG is important and you don't need a back seat for anything, C5 all day. I'd only take the GTO over it if I needed the back seat.

D3VIL
05-05-2012, 11:52 AM
Sorry guys, I should probably explain my $$ Budget $$ Not assuming you guys would know lol

13to 16 k means some cars like c4 lt4 can be had for 12/13ish and

and srt8 and c55 and sti can be found for 18/19ish with roughly 60to90k millage and my past 3 cars that I've bought I've haggled the prices down from 11 to 8.5k, 12 to 10k and 16 to 12.5k... So from past experience I can haggle the dealers down AT LEAST 2k if not more. I'm Persian... Let's just say were VERY good at haggling :D

Sorry I shouldn't have assumed you guys would know how my pricing worked

D3VIL
05-05-2012, 11:57 AM
Personally I would stay away from the foreign stuff on your list due to maintenance costs (been there, done that, and it gets old). With gas being a real concern with a 60 miles daily commute I think you would totally enjoy the Cobalt SS just like you said. If the SS is not 'visual' enough for you and you are leaning towards a Corvette I would just advise to get as low a mileage stock example that you can afford and I don't care what year it is. There are so many Corvettes out there for sale that have been owned by middle aged, and even old guys, that barely used them and are basically excellent used garage kept cars. You would have very few maintenance issues or worries. Have fun with the search!

I agree with staying away or being afraid of the foreign stuff like the C55, but after lotta research and one of my buddies has one, apparently they are VERY beatable cars... The transmission and the engine and all the main big parts are very bullet proof apparently, and Status/Elegance of Benz would be something nice and refreshing coming from the Fbody...

But yea, IF shit goes wrong... I'll have to sell an arm and a leg... It's a risk with all the German cars lol

D3VIL
05-05-2012, 11:59 AM
I'm not a HUGE fan of the C5 Vette. Granted it looks cool, but the interior is every bit as junky as an fbody. My main beef is that it still has that big/clusmy feel like an fbody, mainly due to it being so wide. The seats suck just as much as an fbody, ie uncomfortable and no lateral support. Plus the steering feel is pretty damn numb, just like an fbody.

If you want to know what good handling, seating position, and steering feel is like, go drive a BMW or a Miata. You feel at one in those cars, in the C5 Vette, its like a 4th gen fbody, you feel distant, remote, removed from the steering wheel.

Anyways, unless its a C5 Z06 with 405hp stock, I think the LS1 fbody is a much better buy. Cheaper, more practical, just as fast, and I personally like the styling better on both the Pontiacs and Camaro.

Really? Your literally the 1st person that has ever said that the F-body and the C5 are very similar... Not disagreeing with you... just saying.

Everyone says that besides the engine and the straight line comparison, there night and day apart.

Though I might agree that the interior of the C5 only being a tiny step up from the F-body.

lemons12
05-05-2012, 12:16 PM
The C5 interior in not as shitty as the fbody. Have you paid attention to them? Hell if nothing else look at the difference in window switches/door locks. They are most definitely nicer.
It is one thing you are paying for with the higher price in the same platform.


Only car? Me personally, I don't care if I only have one other seat so C5... Practically, ls2 GTO.

firstls1vette
05-05-2012, 12:33 PM
Yea I have tO disagree with you aronz28. My buddies 2000 camaro has a good bit of suspension work down to it compared to the stock suspension on my corvette and his still doesn't handle as well as my car does.

And as for me just sitting in a c5 I feel more comfortable. I don't really care to drive his car. Interior Quality, your right not much better if any at all to the f-body.

Black&White
05-05-2012, 12:40 PM
If you don't need a back seat then go c5. The interior is nicer than an fbody and imo the seats are way more comfortable than a 4th gen. Not to mention the better handling.
If you need a little more room the c55 is a great little car. My mom has one with almost 100k on it and besides a wiring issue that took a long time to find (one wire got pinched, either during assembly or ???) it has been a great little car and is very fun to drive. Seats are comfortable, interior is generally nice and it gets decent mpg's for a 360 hp v8.
If mpg's are your biggest concern then the cobalt SS would probably be your best choice from your list.

D3VIL
05-05-2012, 12:40 PM
Yea I have tO disagree with you aronz28. My buddies 2000 camaro has a good bit of suspension work down to it compared to the stock suspension on my corvette and his still doesn't handle as well as my car does.

And as for me just sitting in a c5 I feel more comfortable. I don't really care to drive his car. Interior Quality, your right not much better if any at all to the f-body.

What type of C5 do you have? Is it your DD or your weekend toy?

M6 or Auto?

Your overall summary(interior, durability, mpg, random shit going wrong) of the car would be greatly appreciated it sir :)

lemons12
05-05-2012, 12:45 PM
Devil there is a complete C5 VS fbody thread around here somewhere that breaks everything down.

D3VIL
05-05-2012, 12:45 PM
If you don't need a back seat then go c5. The interior is nicer than an fbody and imo the seats are way more comfortable than a 4th gen. Not to mention the better handling.
If you need a little more room the c55 is a great little car. My mom has one with almost 100k on it and besides a wiring issue that took a long time to find (one wire got pinched, either during assembly or ???) it has been a great little car and is very fun to drive. Seats are comfortable, interior is generally nice and it gets decent mpg's for a 360 hp v8.
If mpg's are your biggest concern then the cobalt SS would probably be your best choice from your list.

Good to hear another positive review of the C55. My brother has a brand new Maxima and it's a fantastic car, it doesn't do one thing AMAZING but it does everything VERY GOOD! So the factor of the C55's luxury and refinement is a nice breath of fresh air :)

But the What-If factor of the Germans.... are very scary!

Dan Stewart
05-05-2012, 12:56 PM
Rare and low repair costs conflict with each other.

Rare vehicles experience higher parts costs due to the lower volume.

WhiteKnight '01
05-05-2012, 01:03 PM
What do you do for a living where you have this much free time at work?

Btw, my vote goes for a Cobalt SS. Gas prices are not coming down.

bad_408_vert
05-05-2012, 02:48 PM
I used to DD my camaro 75 miles a day for work...sucks.
If I could have it my way I'd take a GTO or Srt8 mostly because of comfort/space.

But like WhiteKnight 01 said, gas isn't getting any cheaper.
In your shoes, I 'd get the cobalt ss that is fun to drive and much better on gas then rest of cars listed.

Whatever you save on gas in cobalt vs a srt 8 goes towards a nice down payment on c6z when you finish school.

Camaro_94
05-05-2012, 03:19 PM
You just can't please everyone.

The C5 interiors are damn near perfect in my book. You want all that extra pointless heavy shiy in there? Go buy a caddy. The C5/C5 Z06's were built to handle great and go fast. Yeah, it might not come factory with a bunch of useless electronic gadgets, but that's why I think it is perfect. If I wanted to have a car that felt like I was driving a fucking soft pillow everywhere I went, I'd look at getting a quiet and slow Lexus or BMW. Not the M5... Since that would most likely be too loud or some stupid shit by those same standards. But guess what... Most people buy their corvettes knowing it's not going to be the most comfortable thing ever, but they deal with it because it's one hell of a car for the price they're going for.

NW-99SS
05-05-2012, 04:30 PM
Having DDed a Cobalt SS for almost 4 years, it gets my vote. Overall enjoyable car to drive, good stereo, decent enough interior (I had a loaded SS with heated leather, moonroof, limited slip diff, blue accented interior in a blue car).

I would look for a turbo SS that hasn't been beat on. Add to that the Brembo brakes, suspension, and added power = one litte fun car to DD while you finish school, get the job you want and then can afford the sports car you are dreaming of.

mjs1012
05-05-2012, 05:06 PM
Devil there is a complete C5 VS fbody thread around here somewhere that breaks everything down.

This it??
http://ls1tech.com/forums/corvette-performance/1466127-c5-vs-fbody.html

I personally would get the c5. i think thats gunna be my next car. the price on c5's is going down and with the c7 coming out soon its gunna go down further.

lemons12
05-05-2012, 05:53 PM
This it??
http://ls1tech.com/forums/corvette-performance/1466127-c5-vs-fbody.html

I personally would get the c5. i think thats gunna be my next car. the price on c5's is going down and with the c7 coming out soon its gunna go down further.

http://ls1tech.com/forums/corvette-performance/1433240-04-c5z06-05-c6-2.html#post15154418

Detoxx03
05-05-2012, 06:17 PM
Of the cars listed I like the C5. If you want to wait and save longer I would get a LS3 C6. Prices should go down once the C7 debuts.

wooddaniel
05-05-2012, 08:06 PM
I got my C5Z06 for dirt cheap. You just gotta look hard for people that are desperate to sell. I love my car, I test drove several C6's and they didn't compare. Mine already had some bolt ons though.

WhiteKnight '01
05-05-2012, 08:10 PM
You just can't please everyone.

The C5 interiors are damn near perfect in my book. You want all that extra pointless heavy shiy in there? Go buy a caddy. The C5/C5 Z06's were built to handle great and go fast. Yeah, it might not come factory with a bunch of useless electronic gadgets, but that's why I think it is perfect. If I wanted to have a car that felt like I was driving a fucking soft pillow everywhere I went, I'd look at getting a quiet and slow Lexus or BMW. Not the M5... Since that would most likely be too loud or some stupid shit by those same standards. But guess what... Most people buy their corvettes knowing it's not going to be the most comfortable thing ever, but they deal with it because it's one hell of a car for the price they're going for.

Definitely not hating on the Corvette or its interior, because it is much nicer than an F-body, but damn near perfect? I think your comment contains just a little bit of bias in it, being that you own a C5.

Corvettes are the epitome of a performance car where all the money goes to performance and none to comfort or cabin amenities. Last Corvette I was riding in was rougher than my Camaro.

However, the gauges in Corvettes do look very nice, would one day like to find a Camaro gauge overlay that mimics the Corvette's. :lol:

Sarge91
05-05-2012, 09:29 PM
Looking at your chart i see the Cobalt SS..

I almost bought one. Looked a alot of Supercharged ones, and Turbo'd. They where fun, and the sc made me grin with the little ol whine it had. Turbo was faster, was looking at a DD at the time. But at the end of the day, it was still a Cobalt, with the worst rental car interior i had ever seen. So i backed out just stuck with the Camaro.

GTO is a nice DD car, but i swear, they look to much like the Grand Prix or whatever its called for me to like it.

C5z ftw!

WhiteKnight '01
05-05-2012, 09:32 PM
GTO's are fucking ugly, in my opinion. No redeeming qualities of a muscle car nor of a sports car. It looks like a confused and mixed breed of an oversized Dodge Neon and some Japanese import. I think their interiors are VERY well done however, but the outside is completely hideous.

wooddaniel
05-05-2012, 09:52 PM
GTO's are fucking ugly, in my opinion. No redeeming qualities of a muscle car nor of a sports car. It looks like a confused and mixed breed of an oversized Dodge Neon and some Japanese import. I think their interiors are VERY well done however, but the outside is completely hideous.

I think your Camaro is fucking ugly IMO. And I've owned two 4th gen Camaros.


Maybe I'm biased because I had 2 but... I think they look good when done right. The 17's don't do them justice but in the right color with the 18's they look great IMO.

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr88/wooddaniel/006.jpg

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr88/wooddaniel/007.jpg

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr88/wooddaniel/ahhhh080.jpg

wooddaniel
05-05-2012, 09:55 PM
And yes, that is my WS6 next to it. I had the GTO for a daily and I regret getting rid of it.

ThumperNC24
05-05-2012, 10:16 PM
I'm not a HUGE fan of the C5 Vette. Granted it looks cool, but the interior is every bit as junky as an fbody. My main beef is that it still has that big/clusmy feel like an fbody, mainly due to it being so wide. The seats suck just as much as an fbody, ie uncomfortable and no lateral support. Plus the steering feel is pretty damn numb, just like an fbody.

If you want to know what good handling, seating position, and steering feel is like, go drive a BMW or a Miata. You feel at one in those cars, in the C5 Vette, its like a 4th gen fbody, you feel distant, remote, removed from the steering wheel.

Anyways, unless its a C5 Z06 with 405hp stock, I think the LS1 fbody is a much better buy. Cheaper, more practical, just as fast, and I personally like the styling better on both the Pontiacs and Camaro.

wut?

you must have been driving a beat C5 because I would describe my C5Z as nothing like that.

The seats do kind of suck but luckily mine are already upgraded to C6Z seats (still not perfect but I find them comfy).

My C5Z is miles ahead of my fbody in every single way...Of course the interior doesn't hold a candle to the germans - but the rest of the car is fantastic.

OP:

Why didn't you just use excel?

I don't agree with your rankings really, but its your preference.

Z Fury
05-05-2012, 10:33 PM
Of the cars listed I like the C5. If you want to wait and save longer I would get a LS3 C6. Prices should go down once the C7 debuts.

Not to sub-$20K pricing. Maybe a high-mileage LS2 model...

XxGarbSxX
05-06-2012, 12:18 AM
Surprised no one commented on the STi on the list. I'm not sure where you are, but good luck finding one for $16k or less. A WRX, yes, STi, doubtful. If you can, I'd say jump on it.

Detoxx03
05-06-2012, 01:23 AM
Not to sub-$20K pricing. Maybe a high-mileage LS2 model...

That's why I said if he wants to wait and save.

firstls1vette
05-06-2012, 02:05 AM
What type of C5 do you have? Is it your DD or your weekend toy?

M6 or Auto?

Your overall summary(interior, durability, mpg, random shit going wrong) of the car would be greatly appreciated it sir :)

I love my c5. It's a 2003 just base model with z51 suspension and an m6 It's comfortable to drive for hours on end. I have taken it on many trips 200- 400 miles at a time. Never have a problem with it. Only part I ever had to change was the starter, a few months back so it's very reliable. Great gas mileage for a sports car, 23-25 mpg city average depending on how i drive it and Ive seen as high as 34 mpg on the interstate. It was a dd until I did my head and cam swap. So now it's not. But I still wouldn't hesitate to drive it anywhere. Overall it's a great car I wouldn't trade it for anything except maybe a c6 but I can't afford one. O and did I say you'll get looks from just about every girl on the road too. :cool:

D3VIL
05-06-2012, 02:53 AM
wut?

you must have been driving a beat C5 because I would describe my C5Z as nothing like that.

The seats do kind of suck but luckily mine are already upgraded to C6Z seats (still not perfect but I find them comfy).

My C5Z is miles ahead of my fbody in every single way...Of course the interior doesn't hold a candle to the germans - but the rest of the car is fantastic.

OP:

Why didn't you just use excel?

I don't agree with your rankings really, but its your preference.

It was a slow day at work, so I decided to do some drawing on paint... and it led to making a chart haha wasn't really thinking of doing a presentation with it lol

And yea my "rankings" are my opinion, not facts... I'm not Car & Driver... which even the magazines don't do the car justice a lotta times IMO

D3VIL
05-06-2012, 02:57 AM
Surprised no one commented on the STi on the list. I'm not sure where you are, but good luck finding one for $16k or less. A WRX, yes, STi, doubtful. If you can, I'd say jump on it.

You must of not read one of my replies. When I'm looking at a 16 otd, I find a 18to19k car and haggle down... and there are plenty of STI's out there for that price.

I'm not bragging but I am very decent at haggling. My last 3 cars brought the prices down 3k, 2.5k and 2k.

D3VIL
05-06-2012, 03:01 AM
I love my c5. It's a 2003 just base model with z51 suspension and an m6 It's comfortable to drive for hours on end. I have taken it on many trips 200- 400 miles at a time. Never have a problem with it. Only part I ever had to change was the starter, a few months back so it's very reliable. Great gas mileage for a sports car, 23-25 mpg city average depending on how i drive it and Ive seen as high as 34 mpg on the interstate. It was a dd until I did my head and cam swap. So now it's not. But I still wouldn't hesitate to drive it anywhere. Overall it's a great car I wouldn't trade it for anything except maybe a c6 but I can't afford one. O and did I say you'll get looks from just about every girl on the road too. :cool:

Thanks bro, I appreciate your review :usa: The thing is that I'm afraid that the C5 wont be a noticeable upgrade from my f-body... I mean I hear it's better and have driven a couple, but never had it long enough to know the car... I'm sure is an upgrade... but is it THAT much of an upgrade? I'm speaking non-z06 btw... I would include the C5z on the list but the 18/19k ones I find are all higher millage ones above 80k... which is a tad bit high for me.

D3VIL
05-06-2012, 03:11 AM
I think your Camaro is fucking ugly IMO. And I've owned two 4th gen Camaros.


Maybe I'm biased because I had 2 but... I think they look good when done right. The 17's don't do them justice but in the right color with the 18's they look great IMO.

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr88/wooddaniel/006.jpg

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr88/wooddaniel/007.jpg

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr88/wooddaniel/ahhhh080.jpg

I definitely disagree with the other dude, the GTO is not "fucking ugly" at all... It's a very clean looking car that was the first one to come out after the end of the f-body, it was much more dull looking than the 4th gen, thus not being as "cool".

1st impression is a HUGE deal, and in cars case that's the exterior... and GTO's exterior doesn't yell 400hp... Which 99% of muscle car's category is the looks and straight line performance. And 05's being only tied(due to weight) to the 4th gen did not earn the respect. Same reason why the 5th gen gets bashed on... a tiny amount of bolt on 4th gen is as fast as the 8 years newer camaro...

People don't forgive the GTO b/c of it's exterior, and the 5th gen for not having big enough gap with the 4th gen(as far as straight line performance)

firstls1vette
05-06-2012, 05:39 AM
Your going to get mixed review for all the cars you listed Some people are going to be right like me and tell you to get a c5 and some are goin to be wrong a disagree. And if you get one nonz06 with a z51 suspension I've heard only difference is the power of the z06. But should handle pretty close to the same.

But your best bet is to go out and drive a few or allof them and see which one you like the best.

justin455
05-06-2012, 12:20 PM
My vote is either the SRT-6 or the M45. As long as it's the 03-04 one. But then again, I'm weird.

Good luck finding an M45 though.

lemons12
05-06-2012, 12:36 PM
Corvettes are the epitome of a performance car where all the money goes to performance and none to comfort or cabin amenities. Last Corvette I was riding in was rougher than my Camaro.

You do realize the camaro and trans am were the "poor mans Corvette".... Why? Solid rear, no HUD, etc etc etc... The Corvette has way more options and "gadgets" than the fbody does. It isn't a no thrills bare bones car fbody is way close to that.

If your camaro had better ride quality then the Corvette had something wrong with it... A solid rear just doesn't ride like an IRS car, period.

WhiteKnight '01
05-06-2012, 02:31 PM
You do realize the camaro and trans am were the "poor mans Corvette".... Why? Solid rear, no HUD, etc etc etc... The Corvette has way more options and "gadgets" than the fbody does. It isn't a no thrills bare bones car fbody is way close to that.

If your camaro had better ride quality then the Corvette had something wrong with it... A solid rear just doesn't ride like an IRS car, period.

Yes, I've heard the saying before and I know it well. I was only saying the Corvette is a top performing SPORTS car with very basic cabin amenities and ride quality, which is why its so much cheaper than comparable performing sports cars.

The Camaro/Firebird are the same thing...top performing pony/muscle cars with even cheaper options and amenities. Just my two cents.