Automotive News, Media & Press - Subaru BRZ vs Ford Mustang!




View Full Version : Subaru BRZ vs Ford Mustang!


D3VIL
05-06-2012, 11:48 PM
Thought you guys would enjoy this :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pD3hgleEOXA&feature=related

Pretty impressive of the Subaru only being 1.5sec slower on the track if you ask me. Specially when it has 105 less hp and incredibly low about of torque of the BRZ.


LS1LT1
05-07-2012, 12:01 AM
That video was just posted in another thread here as well. :nod:
http://ls1tech.com/forums/automotive-news-media-press/1540609-edmunds-full-test-scion-fr-s-rwd-coupe-2.html




Pretty impressive of the Subaru only being 1.5sec slower on the track if you ask me. Specially when it has 105 less hp and incredibly low about of torque of the BRZ.Then again, the Mustang is also 700+ pounds heavier too.

7998
05-07-2012, 08:19 AM
I'm kind of impressed with both cars.


It'llrun
05-07-2012, 11:19 AM
We've already debated this, as noted above. The little car is cute, but almost totally senseless for the person who wants either true performance or a semi-comfortable daily driver. This new Toyaru falls short impo.

LS1LT1
05-07-2012, 12:29 PM
We've already debated this, as noted above. The little car is cute, but almost totally senseless for the person who wants either true performance or a semi-comfortable daily driver. This new Toyaru falls short impo.:nod:

Irunelevens
05-07-2012, 11:20 PM
It doesn't "fall short" of anything. It has literally no direct competitors. People who want a car like that are people that just flat don't want a car like the Mustang. What it can or can't beat is irrelevant.

Latch
05-08-2012, 12:09 AM
We've already debated this, as noted above. The little car is cute, but almost totally senseless for the person who wants either true performance or a semi-comfortable daily driver. This new Toyaru falls short impo.

x2

Everyone was saying how I just don't get it, that this car's not meant for the dragstrip, it's for corners! But wait, it was slower around Willow Springs than a V6 Mustang. Huh.

I guess it comes down to this: are you willing to be slower than just about everyone else on the track just so you can feel warm and fuzzy inside by the way the brakes and the gear changes feel.

Theblacknightls1
05-08-2012, 12:17 AM
We've already debated this, as noted above. The little car is cute, but almost totally senseless for the person who wants either true performance or a semi-comfortable daily driver. This new Toyaru falls short impo.

Lol that's all I saw :zzz:

-Ross-
05-08-2012, 12:56 PM
1.5 seconds is a pretty good gap. That car was designed to be on the track and this every day Mustang put it in it's place.

Not impressed with that little turd at all.

lees02WS6
05-08-2012, 02:31 PM
I can see what the host, and the test driver are trying to say. Namely, that the Mustang accomplishes, along with most other American performance cars, with blunt force trauma what the Subaru accomplishes almost as well, with performance in things other than HP.

That's not a new critique. The cars being compared are mismatched, but in my opinion what they are saying has merit: "You can make a performance car just as capable, with less horsepower, but more precision."

LS1LT1
05-08-2012, 02:32 PM
It has literally no direct competitors.True, probably no direct competitors...but the Hyundai Genesis and the Mazda Miata might come close to being possible competitors for it.

And this might even further reaffirm the potential Miata parallels/comparisons:
http://www.caranddriver.com/news/2014-scion-fr-s-toyota-gt-86-convertible-rendered-news?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+caranddriver%2Fblog+%28Car+an d+Driver%29

CaptainDirtymax
05-08-2012, 03:13 PM
True, probably no direct competitors...but the Hyundai Genesis and the Mazda Miata might come close to being possible competitors for it.

And this might even further reaffirm the potential Miata parallels/comparisons:
http://www.caranddriver.com/news/2014-scion-fr-s-toyota-gt-86-convertible-rendered-news?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+caranddriver%2Fblog+%28Car+an d+Driver%29

the Genesis is massive compared to the FR-S/BRZ. the FR-S/BRZ are basically the same size as the Miata. so i wouldn't even bother trying to compare them.

It'llrun
05-08-2012, 08:15 PM
It doesn't "fall short" of anything. It has literally no direct competitors. People who want a car like that are people that just flat don't want a car like the Mustang. What it can or can't beat is irrelevant.No competitors? So, I guess there's no Toyota 86 and no Subaru BRZ... :zzz:

By the way, it falls short of just about every performance sports car built over the past 20 years... Other than the Miata, which isn't really a performance car in general, what does this car actually out-perform in the sports car performance world?

I can see what the host, and the test driver are trying to say. Namely, that the Mustang accomplishes, along with most other American performance cars, with blunt force trauma what the Subaru accomplishes almost as well, with performance in things other than HP.

That's not a new critique. The cars being compared are mismatched, but in my opinion what they are saying has merit: "You can make a performance car just as capable, with less horsepower, but more precision."Or dropping about 800 lb and making it sit almost as low as a Ford GT...

True, probably no direct competitors...but the Hyundai Genesis and the Mazda Miata might come close to being possible competitors for it.I don't wonder why the magazine test did use the Mustang and not the Hyundai Genesis... If that car beats the BR-S, they'd have to admit there's no point in buying that over the Hyundai, which performs about as well as the V6 Mustang. That would shoot down any ideas of "gotta have this precision driving" altogether.

the Genesis is massive compared to the FR-S/BRZ. the FR-S/BRZ are basically the same size as the Miata. so i wouldn't even bother trying to compare them.That massive size difference didn't stop the ragazines from comparing the little thing to the Mustang, which essentially dwarfs the Genesis.

Irunelevens
05-08-2012, 08:18 PM
This car is obviously not for you, and that's fine. But it is perfect for what some people want. And I wouldn't call the Toyota 86 and Subaru BR-Z "direct competitors" with this car, considering they are the same car...

It'llrun
05-08-2012, 09:58 PM
This car is obviously not for you, and that's fine. But it is perfect for what some people want. And I wouldn't call the Toyota 86 and Subaru BR-Z "direct competitors" with this car, considering they are the same car...How much more of a competitor can there be, but an identical car?

I'm not the only one who doesn't think it's all that(looks like most agree). I can't figure out why anyone thinks it's worth the price of admission... Honestly, more comfort, more room, more power, more creature comforts and around the same price(no question, the Mustang can in fact be had for less)... Yet somehow the "feel" of the tiny wannabe makes it worthy... It L O S T ... Lost the acceleration contest, lost the handling and power contest(on the race track)... LOST!

Irunelevens
05-08-2012, 10:02 PM
S2000 would "lose" in most performance contests against an LS1 F-body as well, but there are still people that would take the S2000 any day off the week (myself included). It is a DIFFERENT CAR, and in many cases that is all that matters. Like I said, it's fine that you don't agree.

gocartone
05-08-2012, 10:05 PM
the Genesis is massive compared to the FR-S/BRZ. the FR-S/BRZ are basically the same size as the Miata. so i wouldn't even bother trying to compare them.

Size gap between the Miata and BRZ is almost the same as the Genesis to BRZ. 2400lbs for the Miata, 2800 for the BRZ, 3400 for the Genesis, and 3500 for the Mustang. I think it's a great car IF it was around $17k, or had around 300hp, but not where it stands. Same goes for the Miata, too much for too little IMO.

Irunelevens
05-08-2012, 10:21 PM
Size isn't necessarily weight. And $17k? Seriously? Have you looked at what cars in general cost today?

CaptainDirtymax
05-08-2012, 10:56 PM
Size gap between the Miata and BRZ is almost the same as the Genesis to BRZ. 2400lbs for the Miata, 2800 for the BRZ, 3400 for the Genesis, and 3500 for the Mustang. I think it's a great car IF it was around $17k, or had around 300hp, but not where it stands. Same goes for the Miata, too much for too little IMO.

physical size.

http://i.imgur.com/vKL7g.png

i know i've posted that on here before. but nearly 20" in physical size difference is huge between the BRZ and the Genesis.

LS1LT1
05-08-2012, 11:09 PM
i know i've posted that on here before. but nearly 20" in physical size difference is huge between the BRZ and the Genesis.Yes it is, I hadn't realized it was that much smaller. I was merely mentioning the Genesis coupe and the Miata based on them all having a 'front engined 4 cylinder RWD' configuration along with similar base MSRP prices but there's more to it than that I suppose.
I would've even mentioned the 370Z as well except that it MSRPs for a notably higher amount and is 6 cylinder only (Genesis being 'V6 optional' of course).
But damn, this new Scion/Subaru is tiny.

D3VIL
05-09-2012, 01:10 AM
Damn look how much lower it is... that's fun! I love super low cars, specially in curvy roads! That hugging the corner feeling is priceless :D

2cat95ta
05-09-2012, 09:40 AM
If you compare a car to a stock V6 in a track (and lose in the process) then there is no way it can be called a "performance car". I figured that subaru would blow away the mustang in a track since it is shorter, weighs less, etc and the mustang is basically a tank.

2cat95ta
05-09-2012, 09:45 AM
Every time I think miata I think blonde haired chick with big sunglasses :cool:

There's a place for these small cars (at the track), but if it falls short of a tank car like I stated above, then it better be a car that reacts good to bolt ons

2002_Z28_Six_Speed
05-09-2012, 11:04 AM
I could still see buying this car (aside from the high price/performance). If it is truly fun to drive it would make a great DD. Someone is always going to be faster than you. Sure you might get passed from time to time but it is just part of life.

gocartone
05-09-2012, 12:19 PM
And $17k? Seriously? Have you looked at what cars in general cost today?

I have, these go for the same price a WRX goes for, that's insane when you look at what you're getting. They didn't need the nice interior like they have, could have made a more basic one and slapped an under $20k price tag on it.

Irunelevens
05-09-2012, 01:35 PM
I have, these go for the same price a WRX goes for, that's insane when you look at what you're getting. They didn't need the nice interior like they have, could have made a more basic one and slapped an under $20k price tag on it.

1) Completely different cars.
2) It doesn't exactly have a "nice" interior :lol:

ZV8
05-09-2012, 04:04 PM
I agree with gocartone, these are way too much $$$ for the performance, and the miata's are really dumb overpriced. Worst part about the miata's are they only get 28mpg wtf? Atleast this BRZ gets a few mpg better than the mustang which is btw quite a bit less expensive and faster by a LOT. For the base price of a BRZ you can get a nicely equiped mustang and actually have room in the back for passengers.

Irunelevens
05-09-2012, 04:56 PM
If you want a car like the Mustang. If you don't, then it doesn't matter.

AznMuscle
05-09-2012, 05:24 PM
Guess I am the only one here who wouldn't mind one, if it wasn't for the driving to the snowy mountains I'm gonna be doing a lot of when my Dad retires in Feb. I really like these cars, I really like the sound of the boxer engines, but damn straight I wish it was turbo'd and not a low 15 second car (non PI head mustang area). That said, if I was making slightly more money (or wasn't getting married in September), I would be picking up a slightly used premium ASAP for nice DD.

Irunelevens
05-09-2012, 08:05 PM
I still hold by my 14.6 @ 95mph guess when actual owners get them at the track. If any of them care, of course.

Johnnystock
05-10-2012, 04:14 AM
This car is for losers.

wav3form
05-10-2012, 04:48 AM
This car is for losers.

Nah it's going to be for the nerds that think slower is faster.

It'llrun
05-10-2012, 06:08 PM
I still hold by my 14.6 @ 95mph guess when actual owners get them at the track. If any of them care, of course.That may be right on and I'm sure we'll read it over at some point soon. Considering the weight, it could run even quicker(I expect more like a 100mph trap). With its lack of torque, it may not run as quick. I'd laugh my ass off if we saw a streak of 15.0's @ 100+ mph.

gocartone
05-10-2012, 06:55 PM
Best run ever won't touch 100mph with them, high 14-low 15 is where I see them staying bone stock. These weigh the same as S2000s and those barely touch 100mph with an extra 40hp. 2800lbs isn't that light for a car with only 200hp.

BanditTA
05-11-2012, 07:18 AM
2800lbs isn't that light for a car with only 200hp.

That's what i thought too, that is what a cobalt SS weighed and with a GMPP kit they had 100+ hp more.

O but weight...these handle sooooo much better. There isn't a single reason in the world for me to even look at that car (Yota or Subi), they look god awful, way under powered, and will be the next "Honda Civic Vtec craze on the streets".

gocartone
05-11-2012, 12:17 PM
That's what i thought too, that is what a cobalt SS weighed and with a GMPP kit they had 100+ hp more.

O but weight...these handle sooooo much better. There isn't a single reason in the world for me to even look at that car (Yota or Subi), they look god awful, way under powered, and will be the next "Honda Civic Vtec craze on the streets".

Yup, that's what fun cars had for weight and horsepower 10-15 years ago. SRT4 Neons weigh the same too, with a lot more power stock and very easy to upgrade, and like the Cobalt SS they aren't slouches around a track. FWD DSMs were in the same weight bracket too, along with 240SXs (which were slower, but they were released close to 20 years ago and aren't that much slower)...IDK I'm just not impressed with what you are getting for your money with this car.

Irunelevens
05-11-2012, 12:59 PM
I'm not saying this car is the second coming of Jesus or something, but numbers aren't everything. There is a reason that every single person that drives it loves it.

LS1LT1
05-11-2012, 01:03 PM
I still hold by my 14.6 @ 95mph guess when actual owners get them at the track. If any of them care, of course.At least a few owners will get them into the 14s, that's very likely. :nod:




I'd laugh my ass off if we saw a streak of 15.0'sYou will see plenty of 15s as well, and not to make excuses for the car in advance but there could also be other factors (driver's skill, air/track conditions etc.) that will contribute to the ones running the slow ETs as well. :burn:
And I'm pretty sure more stock ones will be seen running 15s than 14s too.
I'm thinking that the automatics might all be in the 15s (16s?) though.

chaman
05-11-2012, 01:04 PM
I fail to comprehend why they were compared in the first place.

Z Fury
05-11-2012, 01:48 PM
I fail to comprehend why they were compared in the first place.

My thought is for marketing reasons. The BRZ would get destroyed by anything in its class (which there really isn't anything). They knew the only way to make the car look good was to put it against a V6 pony car and then comment forever about how easy it is to drive into corners as compared to the "brutish" pony car.

But yeah, this comparison makes as much sense as a Porsche Cayman vs. Mustang GT comparison.

JD_AMG
05-11-2012, 04:37 PM
I fail to comprehend why they were compared in the first place.

price

chaman
05-11-2012, 04:41 PM
Perhaps but they are completely different type of cars.

94nismoformula
05-14-2012, 11:30 PM
I'm gonna wait and test drive before forming an opinion. And hopefully there'll be an sti version later on.

firebird99
05-15-2012, 06:08 PM
It's not lighting fast but it's still a cool rwd car that can be made fast just wait until they slap a turbo on these twins they will be quick.

bayer-z28
05-29-2012, 06:43 PM
True, probably no direct competitors...but the Hyundai Genesis and the Mazda Miata might come close to being possible competitors for it.

And this might even further reaffirm the potential Miata parallels/comparisons:
http://www.caranddriver.com/news/2014-scion-fr-s-toyota-gt-86-convertible-rendered-news?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+caranddriver%2Fblog+%28Car+an d+Driver%29

That's what I was thinking too.

But I didn't know about this car till today when I saw a trailer of em on the HW. HOT looking car! But when I got back to the shop and looked it up the specs disappointed me big time. No turbo boxer? No AWD? I dunno, I figured that thing would be a menace with AWD and a turbo. Would be able to put the power down and stick like mad.

NJNETSFAN
05-29-2012, 07:56 PM
I'm confused on how the BRZ lost in every comparison they did and they still said it was the better car lol

Irunelevens
05-29-2012, 08:25 PM
Because numbers aren't everything. Some people here realize that, and it seems like every test done on this car is done by people who get that too. I would like to see what this car is like with some halfway-decent tires on it.

It'llrun
05-29-2012, 08:55 PM
I'd like to see what it could do with half-way decent power output... and good tires. ;)

Actually, the power is half decent.

AznMuscle
06-06-2012, 07:00 PM
I'd like to see what it could do with half-way decent power output... and good tires. ;)

Actually, the power is half decent.

It has the weight going for it (for a change considering all the other new cars today), and especially if a STI version does come out...I would be all over that. 300 hp 2700 lbs, yes. Please.

RaggedRides
06-07-2012, 07:36 AM
I was browsing comparison videos on Motor Trend yesterday and noticed they bill this particular Mustang as dirt cheap, but it's a premium model with the performance package that came out to a hair over $30,000, yet they keep throwing around the base price and under $28k bullshit in the videos.

That 3.7 cost as much as a base GT. I'd never option up a V6 that much, but I do love the new 3.7. These things are making excellent power with bolt-ons and tuning. I'd definitely consider a base manual in a few years as a daily commuter.

Another point of interest is that it comes with a bad ass set of Pirellis. I think equivalent tires on the Scionbaru would close the gap considerably, but that's neither here nor there.

I think for the money the Mustang is worth they should have thrown the 370Z in the mix.

-Ross-
06-07-2012, 08:52 AM
Both cars are for ladies.

LS1LT1
06-07-2012, 03:36 PM
especially if a STI version does come out...I would be all over that. 300 hp 2700 lbs, yes. Please.An STI version likely wouldn't be only 2700 pounds though. Turbo, intercooler, brackets/piping, bigger wheels/tires, heavier duty driveline/suspension components, more standard interior/comfort items etc.
But it could still ultimately be a relatively light/nimble (and now more potent) sports coupe. :nod:

AznMuscle
06-07-2012, 04:47 PM
An STI version likely wouldn't be only 2700 pounds though. Turbo, intercooler, brackets/piping, bigger wheels/tires, heavier duty driveline/suspension components, more standard interior/comfort items etc.
But it could still ultimately be a relatively light/nimble (and now more potent) sports coupe. :nod:

Eh, you are right, I think the premium BRZ sits at 2740 as it is, so add in all that and weight will go up. Still a baby turbo and the piping wont add TOO much to the egine, who knows if they would go heavier on the suspension. Lets call it sub 3000 lbs then.....that would still be one hell of a fun ride IMO.

CaptainDirtymax
06-08-2012, 02:59 AM
An STI version likely wouldn't be only 2700 pounds though. Turbo, intercooler, brackets/piping, bigger wheels/tires, heavier duty driveline/suspension components, more standard interior/comfort items etc.
But it could still ultimately be a relatively light/nimble (and now more potent) sports coupe. :nod:

Subaru has flat out said no to turbocharging it. that little 2.0 could be punched out to a 2.5 or so and still make that 300bhp N/A.

Subaru/Toyota wants to keep the weight down on these cars. adding all that extra weight to the front of the car (screwing up the weight distribution they tried so damn hard to make perfect) wouldn't make any sense.

Irunelevens
06-08-2012, 12:32 PM
Yup :nod:

LS1LT1
06-08-2012, 01:56 PM
Subaru has flat out said no to turbocharging it. that little 2.0 could be punched out to a 2.5 or so and still make that 300bhp N/A.

Subaru/Toyota wants to keep the weight down on these cars. adding all that extra weight to the front of the car (screwing up the weight distribution they tried so damn hard to make perfect) wouldn't make any sense.True.
I don't know if a full 300hp NA is probable or likely, but even just a bump to 250-270hp would really wake up a light car like that. :nod:

CaptainDirtymax
06-09-2012, 02:34 AM
True.
I don't know if a full 300hp NA is probable or likely, but even just a bump to 250-270hp would really wake up a light car like that. :nod:

12:1 compression off of a 2.5L flat 4 turning 7500rpm??? they could if they wanted to.

XxGarbSxX
06-09-2012, 11:35 AM
Just because Subaru won't turbo it doesn't mean the aftermarket isn't going to find a way to get a 2.5 Turbo STi engine in there.