Generation III Internal Engine - Best heads for 228r cam? prc Stg 2.5 ls6 vs prc 227cc heads?

I have made my mind up that when I do h/c I will go with a 228r cam on 112lsa for many reasons.... What I need to figure out now is what heads I will want to go with. I have researched and seen "buy the best heads possible" comments. So my question now is what are the best heads to match the 228r cam? Right now I am looking at either the PRC stg 2.5 heads or the PRC 227cc heads from tsp... How much hp would I pick up going with the PRC 227's over the stg 2.5 ls6 heads? Are there any better options out there besides the 227cc heads?

You might give up some low end torque with the 227 heads in the lower rpms running on stock cubes.

Maybe look at a 205, or 215

I would go with a set of AFR 205s... Would make some nasty low-mid range power and those heads can hold their own up top too if you decide to go larger down the road or more cubes.

I would go with the AFR 205's. My current heads and cam cost me a bit of low end but am going to go stroker (maybe) to fix that. Now if only I could fine a reputable machine shop on Oahu... :-)

Edit: My cam is on a 114 LSA. In retrospect I should have gone with the 112.

Are you looking for max peak or under the curve?

New AFR 210's they are monster heads :burn:

Cool, where is the best place to buy afr 205's?

Here's probably the best price I've found.
http://www.ws6project.com/user_stor/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=235_426_197&products_id=4558

Here's probably the best price I've found.
http://www.ws6project.com/user_stor/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=235_426_197&products_id=4558

Damn that is alot of $$$. I wonder how close a set of ported 853's by AI would be to these? If they could port them to make the same hp or more than stg. 2.5 ls6 heads I would be happy!

I forgot that the 210's replaced the 205's. They are spendy but you get what you pay for. They are incredible heads. I wish I had saved up a bit longer to get the AFR's

You might give up some low end torque with the 227 heads in the lower rpms running on stock cubes.
http://www.yourfinancehelper.com/article/today/act.jpg
http://www.yourfinancehelper.com/article/today/lk.jpg

The PRC 227 head is the highest flowing production cylinder head for the 3.9" bore. The flow comparsion to a 205 or 210cc 15 degree head isn't even close. The great thing about the PRC 227 heads is with its altered valve angle & smaller chambers you can get a good compression bump and still have p/v for a larger camshaft if down the road you decide to upgrade!

You could consider the 215 heads, but honestly the 227 would be my first pic no doubt.

You might also think about the new PRC as cast. It moves over 320cfm and will be priced about $1800! Id easily put it up against any competitors cnc ported head.

So why on tsp's site does it say that the prc stage 3 ls6 heads are not recomended for stock cubic inch engines, but the 215cc and 227cc heads say they work great with stock ci and bigger ci??? How much gain would I see with the 228r/227cc head compared to the 228r and the stage 3 ls6 head?

If it were me, I'd go AFR all day long. You can comb the classified section on here for some AFR heads. I've seen multiple sets for sale. I believe there is a pretty new set of AFR 205cc heads for $1,400. You can't beat that. With a 228 cam, a set of AFR 205cc, 210cc or even 215cc heads will provide you with "useable", "under the curve" power, which is probably what you're after going with a smaller cam.

So why on tsp's site does it say that the prc stage 3 ls6 heads are not recomended for stock cubic inch engines, but the 215cc and 227cc heads say they work great with stock ci and bigger ci??? How much gain would I see with the 228r/227cc head compared to the 228r and the stage 3 ls6 head?

Stage 3 heads are designed for larger than stock bore motors. They have bigger valves and require pistons with valve reliefs or flycut.

You'll need aftermarket roller rockers with every head that is running bronze guides; AFR is one of them. That is an added expense.
AI can do your stock heads, ask about Their 219 cc LS1 cnc head program. You can increase compression while maintaining stock PTV clearance. That would be my choice. AI's work is top notch.

Any of our PRC aftermarket heads do not require roller rockers. We have designed these heads to take the stock rocker with no problems. We use a very high quality bronze that takes a very long time to wear out so the stock rockers are no problem. We prefer to run those to most aftermarket rockers because of inconsistency.

If you are looking for a new aftermarket casting head but on a budget I would recommend you look at our PRC as cast aftermarket heads. They are a 220s runner head with a larger valve that will really increase power. I put them on my 01 z06 and picked up right at 30rwhp over a set of 243 heads. Take a look at this link and let us know if you have any questions at all.

http://www.texas-speed.com/p-3515-prc-ls1ls2-cathedral-as-cast-heads.aspx

You'll need aftermarket roller rockers with every head that is running bronze guides; AFR is one of them. That is an added expense.
AI can do your stock heads, ask about Their 219 cc LS1 cnc head program. You can increase compression while maintaining stock PTV clearance. That would be my choice. AI's work is top notch.

Thanks for letting me know that! I think I'm gonna go with the 228r on 112 and the stg 2.5 ls6 heads. I just bought fuel pump with hotwire and 37lbs injectors to get ready for the h/c. I'm just scared my tranny isn't going to last long with the h/c setup. Not to mention I have a 100 shot on top of that LOL. I WILL NOT spray the 100 shot with the h/c until I get built tranny though

Any of our PRC aftermarket heads do not require roller rockers. We have designed these heads to take the stock rocker with no problems. We use a very high quality bronze that takes a very long time to wear out so the stock rockers are no problem. We prefer to run those to most aftermarket rockers because of inconsistency.

If you are looking for a new aftermarket casting head but on a budget I would recommend you look at our PRC as cast aftermarket heads. They are a 220s runner head with a larger valve that will really increase power. I put them on my 01 z06 and picked up right at 30rwhp over a set of 243 heads. Take a look at this link and let us know if you have any questions at all.

http://www.texas-speed.com/p-3515-prc-ls1ls2-cathedral-as-cast-heads.aspx
That is great news! How many live setups those 227 are running on? How many miles on these 227 setups? How many have you actually torn down and had measurements on guide wear with stock rockers? Can you share any data with us? Cams and lifts used? Was there less wear with sub .600 lift cams VS post .600 lifts cams?

We like to use Trick Flow Specialties heads on 99% of our builds and there is a BIG reason we do!

After seeing how well a ported set of LS6 heads competed against all of the high dollar aftermarket heads in a magazine shootout, I say you just can't beat a set of CNC ported LS6 heads for $1100 bucks ready to bolt on. And, they use the stock rockers which saves even more cash.

My raceweight is 3700+ lbs and even with a small (2800) converter and a baby cam my car runs mid to low 11s depending on the DA. I think that is pretty strong for an $1100 set of heads.

After seeing how well a ported set of LS6 heads competed against all of the high dollar aftermarket heads in a magazine shootout, I say you just can't beat a set of CNC ported LS6 heads for $1100 bucks ready to bolt on. And, they use the stock rockers which saves even more cash.

My raceweight is 3700+ lbs and even with a small (2800) converter and a baby cam my car runs mid to low 11s depending on the DA. I think that is pretty strong for an $1100 set of heads.

The TFS aren't just all about flow.

There is a reason the valve angle is 13.5* versus the stock 15*. The rolled back valve angle allows a longer push rod to be utilized and thus allows better valve train geometry and stability. With stock heads and rockers you are limited to .620-.630" lift and even then I would not spec that much lift on a car that saw anything over 2-3k miles a year. When you start getting into the higher lifts of .600" plus the stock rocker geometry and valve angle just don't jive and they begin to eat at the valve tips.

Only by rolling the valve angle back and redesigning the rocker stands can you alleviate this issue and run higher lift camshafts. Again it also promotes better geometry and stability with the longer push rod, just like having a longer connecting rod has better thrust characteristics on the wrist pin in a rotating assembly.

Also in that magazine test you are referring too they used the same cam for every single one of those heads in that test. The huge difference in exhaust flow on the TFS heads versus even the best ported LS6 head is vastly different and IMO would need a much different camshaft to really show the gains they are worth over a stock casting.

Just my opinion, but it's really all fact.:)

Just my opinion, but it's really all fact.:)

LOL. Quote of the day.

Seriously though, all good points for a serious race motor. I still say for a budget build, you can't beat the bang for the buck and performance of CNC factory castings.

LOL. Quote of the day.

Seriously though, all good points for a serious race motor. I still say for a budget build, you can't beat the bang for the buck and performance of CNC factory castings.

Glad I could make you laugh.;)

Until I got the job I have now I had my eyes set on a set of AI or TEA ported LS6 heads.

Now I'm not so sure what I'm going to use but the TFS are high on my list now.

Also though with the newer line of cam lobes out there designed for the LS motors most if not all of them are in the .600"+ range and to really be able to use them without wearing out valves you need a head that can utilize that lift and be reliable and durable with that amount of lift.

I suggest Trick Flow 220 as cast. I have a similar cam as the 228r (less lift tho) and just the head swap I gained 55rwhp n 52lbtq. 350lb tq @2500 rpm too.

I bought from Texas Speed, the reasons why they got 2,500 dollars of my money was because of their outstanding costumer support and patients with dealing with people new to the LSX world. I know many people must get sick of hearing Texas Speed this and that, but they didn't grow to the size they are now by selling inferior products. In my Miata community, www.FlyinMiata.com is a hugely respectable aftermarket performance shop because of the same reasons. Flyin' Miata's reputation of supplying products that fit good and work right without modifications is as almost assuring as that other law of science regarding gravity...

No worries Cody, that guy is simply bashing because he ordered the wrong fuel pump from our website tried to install it, and then proceeded to send it back with missing parts and a torn up box expecting a full refund, and blaming the mishap on us. Again all because he ordered the WRONG part off our website, but thought he would call and blame the situation on us and expect us to cover it. We are always willing to help, but there are certain policies we must follow, and that was a situation where we were happy to help but we got back a box and partial parts that we would never be comfortable reselling a customer so we simply couldnt accept them back.

I agree that the basging on tsp pisses me off. They provide good packages for pretty good prices and must sell quLity parts. Look at all the people that use texas speed stuff everyday that runs reliable and fast. Thy even go out of there way to dyno back to back cams and do research to help a buyer pick the cam for his goals. These are just some of the reasons why I will be going with tsp

Just look at their post counts...

Most of the time that says enough. Don't take anybody's advice, including my own if they have a meager 5 or 6 post.

No worries Cody, that guy is simply bashing because he ordered the wrong fuel pump from our website tried to install it, and then proceeded to send it back with missing parts and a torn up box expecting a full refund, and blaming the mishap on us. Again all because he ordered the WRONG part off our website, but thought he would call and blame the situation on us and expect us to cover it. We are always willing to help, but there are certain policies we must follow, and that was a situation where we were happy to help but we got back a box and partial parts that we would never be comfortable reselling a customer so we simply couldnt accept them back.

Don't sweat it Aaron you know it comes with the business!

Never had a problem with TSP. There are always people that order the wrong thing and try to blame the company that it came from. It is called RESEARCH for a reason.

+1 for TSP, great customer service and fast shipping. Don't listen to the trolls.

Correct, when I first called Texas speed months prior to buying my setup, Aaron was very helpful at taking the time to explain what all these camshaft specs really meant. He understood that drivability and good gains were both paramount and I let him make the decisions... 228R, 112 LSA.

Although his obvious job comes first as a saleman and having a good pitch, he didn't sway me towards the purchase of unnecessary things as some vendors have done in the past.

I went with the PRC stage LS6 loaded heads, milled for 11:5-1 compression, ls2 timing chain, ls2 lifter trays, ls7 lifters, mellings oil pump, GM multilayer steel head and exhaust manifold gaskets, and comp trunions.

7.350 pushrods were used with a preload of 0.80. The combo seems to do very well and there isn't a prob with valve train noises.

Dyno tune is this Friday at 1:30. Videos and papers will be posted. My 2002 corvette with full exhaust, header to muffler, and black wing intake got me 370 rwhp and 375 ft lbs of torque.

I'm hoping for 430-450...

Correct, when I first called Texas speed months prior to buying my setup, Aaron was very helpful at taking the time to explain what all these camshaft specs really meant. He understood that drivability and good gains were both paramount and I let him make the decisions... 228R, 112 LSA.

Although his obvious job comes first as a saleman and having a good pitch, he didn't sway me towards the purchase of unnecessary things as some vendors have done in the past.

I went with the PRC stage LS6 loaded heads, milled for 11:5-1 compression, ls2 timing chain, ls2 lifter trays, ls7 lifters, mellings oil pump, GM multilayer steel head and exhaust manifold gaskets, and comp trunions.

7.350 pushrods were used with a preload of 0.80. The combo seems to do very well and there isn't a prob with valve train noises.

Dyno tune is this Friday at 1:30. Videos and papers will be posted. My 2002 corvette with full exhaust, header to muffler, and black wing intake got me 370 rwhp and 375 ft lbs of torque.

I'm hoping for 430-450...

I'll be excited to see the gains with this setup! I will be doing this h/c hopefully within a few months

I'll be excited to see the gains with this setup! I will be doing this h/c hopefully within a few months

Me too, its coming friday :) I wonder what I should raise the rev limiter too on a stock rod bolts?

6800 rpms?

Me too, its coming friday :) I wonder what I should raise the rev limiter too on a stock rod bolts?

6800 rpms?

Depends if your auto or m6? I'm auto and will have built tranny so I will probably shift it at 6600rpm max. If your m6 I wouldn't go past 6800.