Cadillac CTS-V - Swapping a LSx into a CTS with a v6; has it been done?

I am throwing around the idea of picking up a CTS on the cheap and putting a T-56, L/Q4/Q9/M7/33, etc. in it. Given that most GM vehicles are a breeze to swap things in--especially due to the similarities the platforms have, I am hoping the CTS is similar.

Unfortunately, unlike a good majority of GM's vehicles, I'm not seeing any real build threads or similar where somebody has tried it.

Can it be done (within reason), or would I be wasting my time?

The following is my opinion...

For the amount of time it'll take for a swap, you'd be much better off starting at a V. Better base suspension, all wiring, harnesses, all accessories will most likely directly bolt to another LS.

An LQ4 swap, which stock makes 300hp?
Unless this was some full on race build, where all you'd really keep in the end is the frame... I don't see this being worth the time. You can recoup money by selling an LS6 or LS2, etc... You won't be recouping much with those V6s.

If you were talking built LS7 or something crazy, then I could even semi-see why you'd go that route, but even then... I'd say the V would be better to start at.

Waste of time.

Get an "F" body and go ape shit.

Those are real cheap.

You can get a used or blown up V cheap also.

The following is my opinion...

For the amount of time it'll take for a swap, you'd be much better off starting at a V. Better base suspension, all wiring, harnesses, all accessories will most likely directly bolt to another LS.

An LQ4 swap, which stock makes 300hp?
Unless this was some full on race build, where all you'd really keep in the end is the frame... I don't see this being worth the time. You can recoup money by selling an LS6 or LS2, etc... You won't be recouping much with those V6s.

If you were talking built LS7 or something crazy, then I could even semi-see why you'd go that route, but even then... I'd say the V would be better to start at.

Yup.

Waste of time.

Get an "F" body and go ape shit.

Those are real cheap.

This too....

You can get a used or blown up V cheap also.

And yes to this also...there is a pristine 2004 CTS-V on CL with a blown motor in my area...guys asking $12k but i'm sure you can get it for cheaper. With the amount of kids buying these things with no money to fix a blown motor, you should see these things popping up more often. Nothing is the same between the V and a regular CTS...cross-member, suspension, brakes, pedals, electrical...its just not worth it.

IF you were to do it, I would do a Carb'd Ls engine and a straight axle rearend and drag that mother!!!!!


Like everyone else said, start with V.

If he is dropping a motor and trans into a car why start with a V? a base v6 cts can be had for nothing and the motor pulled easily. Find an engine and engine harness along with the t56 and prob do it all for a fraction of what a high mileage V1 would cost.

the extra money saved could be used to replace the rear and enjoy it

If he is dropping a motor and trans into a car why start with a V? a base v6 cts can be had for nothing and the motor pulled easily. Find an engine and engine harness along with the t56 and prob do it all for a fraction of what a high mileage V1 would cost.

the extra money saved could be used to replace the rear and enjoy it

No offense dude, but :lol:

Waste of time... Plain and simple

No offense dude, but :lol:

none taken, but if he is for some reason a cts fan and isnt looking for the handling aspect of the V.... not sure what is so hard in dropping a motor into a car. people drop GM motors into all sorts of random vehicles.

This is true I had a friend drop in a 5.3l Chevy v8 into a grand Cherokee..

ive helped people drop them into 240's.....

We could try to be helpful to this guy so he can decide to do this or not. We could prob learn something from it.
I think you would need the following:
1) Engine and trans
2) engine harness
3) maybe from cradle from a junk yard for a cts-v
4) maybe a different radiator and many hoses and etc minor things.

You might have to be ok with various things not working in the vehicle cluster, and most you check engine lights can be turned off with hp tuners.

I honestly have never under the hood of a base cts. I would also get the most absurd motor you can afford. ls3/ls7 with a cam would make this well worth it. Maybye even a ls6 could be fine if you are willing to be ok with having to tinker a bit to make it work cleanly.

The point is that he wants to rop a V engine into a Non-V CTS and we are all saying that it would probably be cheaper and less of a pain to JUST buy V.

WE are not saying that it cannot be done at all, but again.......why?

If he is going purely drag, then my formula would be best.

IF he is looking for a cheap V, then look for that.


PLUS the CTS diff is WAY more fragile than the V version and I think this is the #1 reason not to do it.

IF you were to do it, I would do a Carb'd Ls engine and a straight axle rearend and drag that mother!!!!!


Like everyone else said, start with V.

Couldn't agree more!

And also, for some it's the fun of tearing shit apart and building something unique. A lightweight, carb'd LSX 4dr drag car would kick ass!

ive helped people drop them into 240's.....

We could try to be helpful to this guy so he can decide to do this or not. We could prob learn something from it.
I think you would need the following:
1) Engine and trans
2) engine harness
3) maybe from cradle from a junk yard for a cts-v
4) maybe a different radiator and many hoses and etc minor things.

You might have to be ok with various things not working in the vehicle cluster, and most you check engine lights can be turned off with hp tuners.

I honestly have never under the hood of a base cts. I would also get the most absurd motor you can afford. ls3/ls7 with a cam would make this well worth it. Maybye even a ls6 could be fine if you are willing to be ok with having to tinker a bit to make it work cleanly.


engine supports are different, if you get an auto which you most likely will since manuals are only 5% of them, you would have to rip that shifter out as well and do something magical to the interior center console, radiators are dif you are right. Rear dif is different... not getting into the suspension or brakes but that has nothing to do with the swap.

PS I have a mostly stripped cts base sitting around if you need some sort of pics for assistance I got them. Oh and the guy that sold me the base prior to me stripping it said he bought it to attempt what you are trying to do but changed his mind. Granted the dude owns a towing company and a hydraulic lift in his garage, as well as a 10sec truck. For him to back out tells me there is a bit more involved here than we think

Some people do a project just to prove that it can be done.

Why someone would want to make a CTS into a V (besides the body molding and clips) sounds kinda pointless considering used ones are around of both types (v1 & v2).

The OP asked if anyone had done it yet.

Sounds like someone tried and gave up.

If you want to drop a big rat motor V8 into a car, I suggest starting with a car a V8 came out of.

If you want a long term project, you picked one.

The OP would also need the V front fascia. The standard CTS fascia won't allow enough airflow for cooling. If you compare the 2, the V is opened up a lot more. Unfortunately this is another factor where starting with a V makes more sense.

This is not even worth discussing. Turning a cts into a V would require electrical (wiring harness), complete drivetrain (motor, trans, rear), suspension, complete interior as well as exterior (facias, side skirts), paint to make it all match and look good, etc. Not worth the time or money spent doing it.

However, if someone wants to waste their time doing it to "prove it can be done", knock yourself out and enjoy paying way more for a fake V than you would pay just buying a real one to begin with.

If price is an issue, I would find a CLEAR TITLE V with super high miles. A running and driving high mile V can be had for $12k or less if u look hard enough. Even a V with a blown motor would be much more worth while than a cts to cts-v conversion.

Is it doable? Yes is it worth it, no. Save your time and money and get a v. Or get a s14 and swap in a ls2. Me and a buddy did that on a s13 and it was ls2 with auto transmission from a gto. Rolling off the line he runs 11.1 so if you want a scary fast car that's the way to go. Especially if you go fi

The OP never mentioned anything about making a cts into a V. just dropping a v8 into a cts chassis. nothing about him wanting to make a fake v or what ever that means.

as people who like modifying stuff, heck as people who like to mod a V1 we should should never ask someone why they wish to do something. just not get in their way and let them try. I just dont understand what is provoking such an emotional response from people about him asking about this.

Oh I'm not emotional about it at all. I just listed why it's a waste of time. And if the OP is not going to make an all out V clone out of it... than why choose the heavy and ugly standard CTS to do a motor swap on to begin with??

no idea why he/she wants a cts to build....

I'm not trying to be rude but rather be blunt as to why it's a waste of time. Lots of better chassis's out there to put a nice motor/tranny in and it can be done for a lot less. The idea of the V is to get the total package of luxury and performance.

If you want a project car thats for you and you do not plan on selling it r title imo is the only way to go. Buy this and call it a day if you can gut a car and swap everything im sure you can putty up a fender) http://www.copart.com/c2/homeSearch.html?_eventId=getLot&execution=e1s1&lotId=16588482&returnPage=SEARCH_RESULTS

I would never buy a salvaged/rebuilt title car. Thing change regardless how much u intend to keep it and that alone is enough to turn away 90% of the market and to sell it, u gotta pretty much give the car away regardless what's been invested in it. To each their own though.

The biggest mistake is calling a car like a V or a conversion an investment. :judge:

MONEY PIT, HOBBY, whatever.

Maybe "bad" investment. :jest:

Lol! I don't know. Bought my 04 V for $12k two and a half years ago and granted I put money in it... I sold it for $15,500 a couple months ago. Bought my 05 for less than its worth with lots of good mods (thanks to a good buddy) so I'll make money on it as well when its time to let it go. I don't buy anything to lose money. Not saying it works out that way every time but every vehicle I've owned... Ive come out even or made money. I'm just smart and wait for the right deal.

none taken, but if he is for some reason a cts fan and isnt looking for the handling aspect of the V.... not sure what is so hard in dropping a motor into a car. people drop GM motors into all sorts of random vehicles.

I came from an Eibach swayed CTS to a CTS-V stock... and the handling was about the same. Same platform too.

The issue with a build always ends up being time and money. More time to wire crap in with new harnesses, etc... more money to be spent on stuff... Easier to recoup money sellin an LS engine, then selling an LY7. Easier to wire with the stock harnesses from a V. More money on working accessories...

A V6 wouldn't be worth the money saved between the two IMO.

[edit]
Oh, and if you think the stock V radiator is bad... ROFLMAO @ the V6 ones, which snap at the bottom end fittings, puke trans fluid all over the place, and occasionally suck in coolant and grenade.

i'm with heavy.... this chassis is far from being a good investment

Exactly. If this car didn't have the LSx already in it, I would have never been interested.

[QUOTE=BudRacing;16308576]Exactly. If this car didn't have the LSx already in it, I would have never been interested.[/QUOTE

Tru dat!!! I would have bought an m5. Only bought it cause its a fast 4 door manual car...hard to come by those these days since people are getting lazier and most dont even know how to drive a manual. Manual will always allow you better control of your vehicle and is a must in any performance car imo. Obviously the absurdly fast cars wont even allow you time to shift and there an auto makes sense. As far as from the factory though...(m5, v, and gxp few of them that have manual) are about your only choices. Pretty sad

to kind of bring this thread back, i have to agree and disagree with alot of comments. i will agree there is no comparison between a regular cts and a v, thats why GM built it. but i see the point. even though you should start with a v it would be pretty neat to see someone do the swap. in my case i need to build a fun fast car that can drive my newborn son around and stomp the local ricers and mustangs. it would problably cost a bit more money in the long run but hear my logic.

2006 cts-v around $12k, high miles, high as **** insurance, 400 or so horses, gm ls engine that costs a left nut to buy any parts for. great car dont get me wrong.

2006 cts 3.6 6-spd around $6k, built LQ4 around $4k, trans and rear and rest of the driveline crap another $2-$3k. ok so it doesnt have the style of a v or the brakes/suspention set up.... but it does still say crappy v6 on the insurance and the title. its the same reason people didnt buy v8 camaros and novas just swapped them.

anybody agree? feel free to comment harshly if i am wrong because im seriously considering this.

oh yeah and you can still drive the car while collecting parts for it.

You'll also need to consider all the time you'll spend on such a swap. Time is money. What's yours worth to you? A couple bucks for insurance?

to kind of bring this thread back, i have to agree and disagree with alot of comments. i will agree there is no comparison between a regular cts and a v, thats why GM built it. but i see the point. even though you should start with a v it would be pretty neat to see someone do the swap. in my case i need to build a fun fast car that can drive my newborn son around and stomp the local ricers and mustangs. it would problably cost a bit more money in the long run but hear my logic.

2006 cts-v around $12k, high miles, high as **** insurance, 400 or so horses, gm ls engine that costs a left nut to buy any parts for. great car dont get me wrong.

2006 cts 3.6 6-spd around $6k, built LQ4 around $4k, trans and rear and rest of the driveline crap another $2-$3k. ok so it doesnt have the style of a v or the brakes/suspention set up.... but it does still say crappy v6 on the insurance and the title. its the same reason people didnt buy v8 camaros and novas just swapped them.

anybody agree? feel free to comment harshly if i am wrong because im seriously considering this.

oh yeah and you can still drive the car while collecting parts for it.


Harsh comment #1: I don't know who the hell you have insurance with, but the insurance on my 2005 V is definitly not high. Hell if I bought a V2, my insurance would only go up 96.00 every 6 mo. And no, I'm not old as youre thinking I am.

Harsh comment #2: Maybe you haven't been around here a while, but you may wanna go back to whoever you're giving your nuts to for parts for the LS6. Maybe you haven't looked into how much commonality there is between these LS engines. EVERYTHING will cost more going through a dealer, but that is why there are other sources.

Harsh comment #3: If you're referring to the old school Camaro and Novas, last I checked, there were stripped down, strip ready versions with the biggest motor you could get out of the GM parts bin stuffed in them from the dealership. Yea, some people bought the V6 because the insurance is cheaper. Big deal. I'm sure there aren't ALOT of people on here that bought a V6 Camaro because the insurance is cheaper. If you haven't realized, insurance companies see a sports car, as a sports car. Do you classify a 2 door, 2.4L Cavalier as a sports car? Hell no, but insurance companies do!Alot of people bought them because the OVERALL platform was cheaper and aftermarket support is plentiful. 1997 V6 Camaro-2500.00 (running) LQ4/LS1/LS6 engine (1500-3k) suspension/rear (3k), around the same amount a clean decent mileage LS1 Camaro would cost you.

I'm done shooting holes in your theory now. Feel free to retaliate.

This is just a BS/what if thread.

Come back and show it off after you have it done.

just buy a cts 3.6 sport and slap a turbo on it, the 3.6 cts's go pretty good, i bet you could fab up a turbo to give it a bit more hp

I see your points, but for some with a not so good driving record cant afford a payment on a car plus full coverage every month. So buying a clean cts outright and not needing full coverage helps. I completely agree with your comments, just trying to say that some people cant afford a cts-v right away. As for the comments about just get an f body that others had, have you ever put a carseat in the "backseat"? It sucks. As for the time, i do this for a hobby so as long as i have a beer in one hand and rachet in another im happy.

Is there really that much difference in insurance? I mean I don't pay that much for my V... Driving record does matter, but that affects you no matter what... I don't see the justification of building a junk ass base CTS to save on initial cost and insurance

I see your points, but for some with a not so good driving record cant afford a payment on a car plus full coverage every month. So buying a clean cts outright and not needing full coverage helps. I completely agree with your comments, just trying to say that some people cant afford a cts-v right away. As for the comments about just get an f body that others had, have you ever put a carseat in the "backseat"? It sucks. As for the time, i do this for a hobby so as long as i have a beer in one hand and rachet in another im happy.

If you can't afford insurance on a V... then you can't afford the swap. Thats probably as honest as I can put it. There's plenty of other cars you can get into cheap if moneys an issue. Because money WILL be an issue trying to do a swap into an LS from a V6

Can I put this hammer in your ass?

Oh, I know it won't fit and I can't even afford a hammer, but if it could and I could?

i still fail to see what the issue is here? this isnt a hard swap since it already fits into this chassis. I can see if he said he wanted to toss a viper motor in here or something, which to my knowledge hasnt been done.


People toss Gm motors into everything. heck Gm did with our chassis to build our vehicle.

This:

http://fortmyers.craigslist.org/col/cto/3162877117.html

Cheap, running, and you can drive it home lol

-meaty

Just don't put V badges on it.

The engine cradle is different between the base CTS and the V.

and both cradles bolt into a CTS....

but are the cradles readily available and cheap? Would you have to source one from an actual V? where are you going to find a donor V with an engine cradle that's in good shape? Most totalled V's are in the front. If the stars align, you'll end up buying two cars for the swap. Why not just buy one that's already built for the same price and none of the effort?

Swapping a LSx into a CTS with a v6; has it been done?

^Ya GM did it from the factory. It's called a V.^

I can't believe I read 3 pages of garbage.

Oh I know. Since the OP wants to make it hard on himself......

Turbo the existing V6 in the base CTS, then fab the LSx into the rear of the car with the trans. Have both at the same time. Like that Tiberon back in the day with two engines/trannys. That thing did the best burnouts ever.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlAyaCKVBTQ

Now that's cool as shit. Maybe someone could do that with an LS4 monte or an impala

but are the cradles readily available and cheap? Would you have to source one from an actual V? where are you going to find a donor V with an engine cradle that's in good shape? Most totalled V's are in the front. If the stars align, you'll end up buying two cars for the swap. Why not just buy one that's already built for the same price and none of the effort?

There were 8 on car-part.com for 500 bucks or so.

Now that's cool as shit. Maybe someone could do that with an LS4 monte or an impala

That'd be badass!

I don't see a problem with it at all. I've actually been wanting to do this since I bought my V. Id like to build a drag radial first gen CTS but I don't have the heart to gut a V. For putting all of the work in to build a full drag radial car your going to have to pretty much start from scratch. Why not start with the absolute base? Most race cars are one off customs anyway. I mean you have to build a cage, most of the time custom motor and trans mounts, custom wiring and an endless list of other things depending if your going N/A, boost or spray. I don't think it's a bad idea at all IF your going the full racecar route. Conversion to a V? That's borderline sac religious.

I'm surprised to see this thread lived as long as it did.

The only reason for asking this question was to see whether or not it was feasible, and it looks like that's a very expensive "maybe." I apologize if it ended up getting anybody at each other's throats (keyboards?).


I am actually looking at purchasing a CTS-V today from a private party locally. I have dropped it off at a local GM dealer to have it checked out for any issues I might not have been able to see or feel myself. Barring any real issues I should be a CTS-V owner by this evening.

See, sometimes people on the Internet do take advice on forums seriously. :D