Small Block & Big Block Chevy Specific - Help me on a budget build my motor on what is the best top end setuo
05-11-2012, 11:57 PM
I'm building a 350 s10. Trying to do this on a budget. I have 7k or so to do it. I plan on 2k for truck, 2k for paint, 1k on swap kit and 3k to spend on buying a motor and anything else if I come out cheaper.
It will be a street cruiser. Not trying to break any records. Gonna use a newer 96-up vortec 350 since they have a roller cam etc from factory. It will be carbed. Looking into the new Holley ultra hp 750, a set of afr's, my problem is I have never built a carb motor. I have no clue what to do for a set of heads, intake etc..I'm lost. What would you do for decent power on a budget?
05-15-2012, 04:41 PM
AFR Eliminator 195cc heads are a great set of heads for your build. Resist going to the Eliminator 225cc heads. They are too big and made primarily for big inch race motors. Just built a Vortec 350. They have a few idiosyncrisis that I wasn't familiar with. For instance, I purchased a double roller timing set for a factory roller. The cam tower casting behind the cam gear needs to be ground down. It rubs hard on the cam gear. Would have eventually destroyed the motor. The whole one piece main seal thing was new too me. Needs a specific pan, flywheel and balancer. Finding a performance flywheel that's balanced properly is a little tricky. Can't remember the details but the Vortec motor is a little unique in it's reciprocating balance. PM me when you begin your head search.
06-01-2012, 01:56 PM
First off, are you doing the work/machining? What type of pistons? That 3k will go really fast...machining alone will cost $600-800 for the block..than balancing etc..
195cc Runner on a 350CI is to large, but good if you want to upgrade in the future. AFR's are nice, but VERY pricey.
Personally I would go with Pro-Filer heads, these are the new heads to beat and are priced much more reasonably. Get these with a 185cc runner, a 650 double pumper carb, air gap intake. and a good camshaft in the low to mid 220 duration .500+lift.
06-02-2012, 01:11 AM
If you're going to get Profiler heads, don't get them from anyone else but Chad Speier. He knows his stuff. Talk to Tony Mamo @ AFR if you're looking to get set with some AFR heads. 3K is going to be tough to build a stout motor, but it can be done. I think I did it, but I got some NASTY good deals on a lot of used parts that had been refurbished. If you build everything up yourself you're looking at $1,500 in the shortblock alone. Not much room to grow with only $1,500. Start pricing stuff out and hunt around for used cylinder heads. If you go for a carb try to find one from Proform, Quickfuel, AEM, Prosystems, etc. Getting a standard Holley is a waste of money these days.. also try to get one with mechanical secondaries and annular boosters. It's definitely worth the extra money.
BTW 195's aren't too big for a 350. I have 200's (technically 206's now) and it's not a big deal. Don't get so caught up on the size of the head moreso than the overall design of the cylinder heads. Don't go buying massive heads by any means, but a decent 190-210cc head will be just fine if the overall combination is done correctly. Personally I recommend a set of Iron Eagles to keep the cost down and still give you great performance. That's what I've got now.
06-05-2012, 09:04 PM
Given your budget i would start off with a solid foundation for your short block. Scat makes a really nice cast steel rotating assembly as does eagle if your doing it on a budget. I have built numerous street engines for myself and clients with these rotating assemblies and had great luck with them and for the price they cant be beat when you start adding up the cost of a crankshaft regrind, chamfering the oil holes, pressing the old pistons off of the old rods, clipping and resizing the rods, polishing the beams to eliminate stress risers and adding a quality ARP rod bolt before hanging and aligning the new pistons to the con. rods. then the price of balancing the rotating assembly, trust me your money ahead with thier rotating assemblies.
Conventional 23* small block cylinder head technology has come along way. The old dart sportman 200cc intake runners are a great value driven street head. GM's Vortec L31 head is also a great cost effective cast iron cylinder head i highly reccomend. If you want to splurge and spend a little more on an aluminum cylinder head the Brodix Track 1's are a great cylinder head as are the Brodex 11x's or Dart's
RHS makes a clean cast cylinder head that has a really clean port design, blended bowls, 2.05 or 2.08/1.60 in/ex valve with a nice radiused turn on the short side radius and an improved exhaust port, i dont think you can go wrong with either of these heads i mentioned.
Intake wise its really hard to beat the old Edelbrock Victor Jr. or the Brodix HMV-1 single plain's even for a street engine
Camshaft wise competition cams has some really nice hydraulic roller cams that fit the bill nicely. and if you are using a new GM hydraulic roller block its fairly inexpensive to step up to a roller cam. One cost alternative is to use the GM Performance hydraulic roller lifters, we sell them at work for about $160.00 for a set and they work great if your on a budget as opposed to spending twice as much on a set of retrofit hydraulic roller lifters.
I hope this is helpful and i am more than happy answer any questions you might have. Ideally a long rod (5.7) rod as opposed to the factory 5.565 rod 400 small block is a great starting point to build great horsepower with a ton of torque. i will usually zero deck the block to tighten up the quench area run a composite head gasket with a compressed thickness of between .038-.044 and a closed chamber 64cc head because i have found not only does the increased rod length elimilate cylinder sidewall loading but it also increases dwell time also tightening up the quench area allows you to run a flat top/dish piston and still achieve a streetable compression ration while improving flame travel and burn rate
06-07-2012, 09:07 AM
Reasons like budget are why I went to the LS platform. You don't need anything but a used cam, sprina and pushrods with a junkyard/Craig's lost motor and you have reliable 7000 rpm HP. ESPECIALLY for a SWAP. I hate being "that" guy pushing a LS swap, but they are cost effective, wish I went to them sooner, carbed LS motors make my old engines look like a waste of time when a budget is concerned.
06-07-2012, 11:48 PM
isnt a carb intake, and MSD ignition controller pretty pricey? Not trying to shoot your suggestion down but im interested myself how you get it done on a budget.
06-08-2012, 01:23 PM
I have a 71 retro roller 355 with vortec heads and a LT4 HOT CAM. Have not started yet but hopefully 400+
06-08-2012, 01:24 PM
Oh yeah cost about 2k
06-14-2012, 06:29 AM
Intake and ignition is 270+320 for a LS swap. Headers are up to you, oil Pan is usually 150, a 5.3 around here is 4-500 complete. I do then for 1500$ and a cam is a bit more depending on the new and used choice. But 400+ hp with a stock 5.3 spinning 7000 for 2000$ is as budget as it gets.
06-14-2012, 06:30 AM
That is brand new intake and ignition btw.
06-19-2012, 08:51 PM
Lets just say, a flat top 350, like the Vortec ('96-'99) with nothing more than a good intake and an LT4 Hot Cam with run like a house on fire.
750 cfm carb. Good ignition. Might find some roller tipped, self-align rockers.
S-10 swap kits are mounts and headers. Use the stock oil pan/pump.
Spend the rest on either an 8.5 GM 10 bolt or a Ford 8.8 from an Explorer (most are posi 3.73 or 4.10) with a set of Cal-Trac bars if you want to go FAST.
If that is not fast enough to endanger your life or strike fear in your heart. Add a simple nitrous plate....
06-23-2012, 09:20 PM
I can say from both sides of the fence, i will take a 7000 RPM 5.3 over a vortec 5.7 any day. Not to mention, no need for a distributor to get in the way, no wires to run every which way, aluminum heads, lighter valve train, superior head flow, i can go on and on, but the LS world is a wild fire for a reason. Not to mention the scary deals i have seen folks score on a 6.0, will make a vortec 5.7 look like a turd, badly.
And you will still probably spend less if you are buying new intake and ignition system for the SBC as well.
06-25-2012, 10:15 PM
SBC are very capable engines (Duttweiler`s turbo 390ci sbc are making close to 3000hp) . Dont let the distributor scare you. Budgets are always broken when building an engine or car.Building a car is not a race , go at your own pace.
06-25-2012, 11:07 PM
Capability is not the question, and i used distributors in SBC till i discovered the new king of budget. The LS platform. Anything will run and make 3000 HP with the right funds, so that is not saying much.
I do the swaps for 1500 without cam o a 5.3 making 350 FWHP, and a cam swap is another 500$ for everything and you will go above 400. Just cannot do that with a SBC and spin 7000 RPM.
06-26-2012, 07:18 PM
SBC have no problem going to 7000 rpms. 350hp or 400hp is not hard to do with a sbc and pretty inexpensive .
06-27-2012, 05:42 PM
It is again, not what it can or cannot do with plenty of cash. Show me a bunch of 350 engines spinning 7000 with cam, pushrods and springs with stock heads...
06-27-2012, 07:24 PM
Check out NHRA Stock eliminator class you will find plenty factory stock engine running low 10`s.
06-28-2012, 12:27 PM
There is way more then 3k in my 355 by the time you count in parts and mechine work. Its not even top of the line badazzzz stuff (not cheap, but not high end) I build ls and sbc stuff and a swap would have been way cheaper. Now my set-up works fantastic, stock port vortecs w/ a good valve job and hyd flat tappet cam. I'm not totally convinced a 5.3 would be where im at now, but if this engine eats it :D
06-28-2012, 04:37 PM
Where did the 7k rpm come from. I thought the 7k was his budget for the whole truck and swap. Looks like he is setting aside 4 k for an engine and and installing it. His total budget actually adds up to 8k ...even so 3 k for 5.3/6.0, swap mounts ,exhaust ,fuel can be done well within the budget for either . I look at it this way .. Bone stock Reman vortec 350 $1400.. 280 hp. Bone stock 5.3 280-300 hp. JY $500-1000. Everything else pretty much has to be purchased anyway due to the v-8 going into the s-10. Keeping them stock will be more budget friendly ... Power wise... 500 bucks for a used cam and springs for the 5.3 moves you toward the 400hp mark and you still get 20+ mpg depending on the gear and driving habits. In the end its whatever you want . Best i got out of my bone stock vortec was 17mpg w/3.23 od running 72 on the interstate.
To me the ls platform is more efficient and easier to make power by design . Thats just my opinion . But until i put a gen III in, i was a diehard Gen I Vortec fan .
06-28-2012, 07:03 PM
I loved the vortec heads. But I moved on. Aluminum factory 4.8 and 6.3 heads do more work with smaller valves. I always say, I wish I went LS platforms sooner.
06-29-2012, 10:38 PM
I hear ya...I'm strongly thinking of it for my third gen.
06-30-2012, 06:27 AM
You will not regret it.