lt1 to 400 rwhp for 5k?
05-19-2012, 02:35 PM
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lt1 to 400 rwhp for 5k? hello I am new to this forum and I am new to the 4th gen scene and I guesse you could say im new to the car scene as i havent even had a liscense for a year 
. Any ways i bought a 1995 firebird formula m6 with 170000 kilometers on it. I had a lot of fun with it, i did a few high speed runs and an ok burnout. Then 3 weeks after woning the car the engine shut off. I was able to start it again by puttin it in reverse and roling the car then dumping the clutch. So now the car has a knock in the bottem end which i beleive is a rod knock because what i think happened was the engine was running way hot causing the oil to thin out resulting to a lack of oil to the rod bearings causing me to spin one of them. So now i have a few options. Either way im gunna have to pull the engine the redo it and i was wondering if i could get 400 rwhp with 5 grand. My plan was to pull the engine my self to save a little money there and then go with an le2 topend kit for 1600 with this cam 232/240 .578/.574 110 LSA - 2200-6400 RPM. My only concerns are as follows: will the stock rotating assembly be able to handle 6k rpm, will tranny hold 400 rwhp, and will the rearend handle 400 rwhp if i dont launch it. I was also thinking of getting the scat 9000 crank with some cat forged rods and im not sure what kind of forged pistons. On top of all that what supporting mods would i need for this combo like injectors? fuel pump? fuel rail? tb? airfoil? i already have k & n cai as well as headers and full exhaust will no cat but its not a true duel setup. so will i be able to do all this for 5k and will it still be daily driveable? o and i plan to be running low 12s by thend of summer 2013
. Any ways i bought a 1995 firebird formula m6 with 170000 kilometers on it. I had a lot of fun with it, i did a few high speed runs and an ok burnout. Then 3 weeks after woning the car the engine shut off. I was able to start it again by puttin it in reverse and roling the car then dumping the clutch. So now the car has a knock in the bottem end which i beleive is a rod knock because what i think happened was the engine was running way hot causing the oil to thin out resulting to a lack of oil to the rod bearings causing me to spin one of them. So now i have a few options. Either way im gunna have to pull the engine the redo it and i was wondering if i could get 400 rwhp with 5 grand. My plan was to pull the engine my self to save a little money there and then go with an le2 topend kit for 1600 with this cam 232/240 .578/.574 110 LSA - 2200-6400 RPM. My only concerns are as follows: will the stock rotating assembly be able to handle 6k rpm, will tranny hold 400 rwhp, and will the rearend handle 400 rwhp if i dont launch it. I was also thinking of getting the scat 9000 crank with some cat forged rods and im not sure what kind of forged pistons. On top of all that what supporting mods would i need for this combo like injectors? fuel pump? fuel rail? tb? airfoil? i already have k & n cai as well as headers and full exhaust will no cat but its not a true duel setup. so will i be able to do all this for 5k and will it still be daily driveable? o and i plan to be running low 12s by thend of summer 2013 
05-19-2012, 03:02 PM
#2
Heads/Cam from AI or LE will make over 400rwhp through a M6 for under 5000.
Do not get an airfoil waste of money.
A 150k stock bottom end that was well maintained can spin 6300rpm, is the safety rpm people go with, so a rebuild can do it.
An aftermarket cast crank is weaker than a stock crank.
Only get an aftermarket crank if it is a forged unit.
Driveablity really comes down to a tune.
Stock fuel rails will work.
Injectors will have to be bigger.
Fuel pump, a brand new replacement would work, but recommend dropping in a Walbro or a DW or a Racetronix unit.
At those levels you don't need forged stuff. A stock bottom end can hold a 150 shot easy. People will shoot 200 with a really good tune.
Best thing to do is call up AI or LE and talk to them, they will spec out a cam for your goals.
Do not get an airfoil waste of money.
A 150k stock bottom end that was well maintained can spin 6300rpm, is the safety rpm people go with, so a rebuild can do it.
An aftermarket cast crank is weaker than a stock crank.
Only get an aftermarket crank if it is a forged unit.
Driveablity really comes down to a tune.
Stock fuel rails will work.
Injectors will have to be bigger.
Fuel pump, a brand new replacement would work, but recommend dropping in a Walbro or a DW or a Racetronix unit.
At those levels you don't need forged stuff. A stock bottom end can hold a 150 shot easy. People will shoot 200 with a really good tune.
Best thing to do is call up AI or LE and talk to them, they will spec out a cam for your goals.
05-19-2012, 03:02 PM
#3
400whp is a cakewalk.
Just have a compotent builder rebuild the bottom end if you've got a knock.
Call up advanced inductions (ai) and have them port and polish your factory heads, and have them spec out a cam for you too. Last time I looked, this was less than $2k. That on a stock bottom end, and you've got 400rwhp, especially through an M6.
Also budget for some fuel injectors and a walboro 255 fuel pump (get the one from racetronix and the racetronix hotwire kit while you're at it).
Also, grab some subframe connectors and some drag radials and you should be in the low 12's high 11's if everything else is in working order.
Just have a compotent builder rebuild the bottom end if you've got a knock.
Call up advanced inductions (ai) and have them port and polish your factory heads, and have them spec out a cam for you too. Last time I looked, this was less than $2k. That on a stock bottom end, and you've got 400rwhp, especially through an M6.
Also budget for some fuel injectors and a walboro 255 fuel pump (get the one from racetronix and the racetronix hotwire kit while you're at it).
Also, grab some subframe connectors and some drag radials and you should be in the low 12's high 11's if everything else is in working order.
05-19-2012, 08:31 PM
#5
The OP already said he has a bottomend knock so he's going to HAVE to rebuild the bottom end. I would get SRP forged ft pistons, Eagle H beam rods and if you're going to get a crank find a used stock one or go ahead and build a 383. Then get the LE2 heads and cam package and you're there depending on how much of the work you can do yourself. PM me if you want another stock crank, I have one for sale.
05-19-2012, 10:27 PM
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Rebalance the stock crank, get some good forged pistons/rods, get a good h/c/i from either LE or AI and spray it. You should be at over 500rwhp with that. Hell, my motor (internally) is bone stock with 141k on it and traps 119 with bolt ons and a 150 shot. With my weight thats close to 450rwhp...
05-19-2012, 11:31 PM
#7
Just have a compotent rebuild done on the bottom end of the motor shouldn't be more than a few thousand.
Tuning, injectors, and exhaust and you're good to go. There's no reason all that has to cost $10k unless you're having it done at a GM dealership with all new absolutely top of the line parts.
$5k is doable if you're willing and compotent to do some of the work yourself and hunt for some deals/good used parts.
Last edited by MasterTomos; 05-19-2012 at 11:39 PM.
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05-20-2012, 02:04 AM
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Machining will cost 1k, bottom end parts are at least 1k-1500, heads/cam w/install ~2500, supporting mods are at least another 1k soooooooo figure 6-7k total.
05-20-2012, 08:43 AM
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Since it has a knock, get a Mahle powerpack piston kit, scat I beam rods, balance the bottom end. Then get the AI 200cc porting service and get a custom cam. 400hp easy.
05-20-2012, 09:12 AM
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Heads,cam,intake milled to match, pushrods,rockers,lifters,headers and exhaust if it dosnt gave it, gear/rear to match the cam, fuel pump, injectors, timing set, oil pump, all the gaskets, throttle body,wideband guage,rebuild the bottom end... Go shopping and get back to me on the total. Very doable but not cheap. These cars are getting old id replace most of the moving parts, minus the crank
05-20-2012, 11:51 AM
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Ok thanks for all the replys I had a few more questions though. If I were to get forged rods and pistons with the stock crank how much hp would that be good for? Because I was also considering boosting this engine in a few years I'm wondering if I shuld just go ahead and put the forged crank in now.
05-20-2012, 01:37 PM
#13
People often underestimate the cost of supporting mods and repairs that come up along the way.
My advise would be with a $5k budget and a wounded motor as well as a car that needs a lot of supporting mods, would be forget heads at this time.
Hell $5k wont go far once you decide to build an engine.
If you want a forged crank shortblock with decent stuff in it I would budget $3500 right off the bat for that. If you come in under GREAT but don't spend your whole budget before you begin because that is a good way to run out of money and not be able to finish a project.
Figure $500ish for fuel system upgrades.
$1-500 for tuning depending on mailorder vs. dyno
$200+ for a larger TB
$4-500 for rockers studs, guideplates, pushrods
There your whole budget is gone without heads or cam.
The stock crank can handle all you will ask of it, not aware of a single one overpower to the point of failure in all my years on the forums and guys have put a LOT to them, there are b-bodies that have sprayed 280hp on top of heads/cam or another couple that sprayed on top of a blower and cam or heads and cam.
My advise would be with a $5k budget and a wounded motor as well as a car that needs a lot of supporting mods, would be forget heads at this time.
Hell $5k wont go far once you decide to build an engine.
If you want a forged crank shortblock with decent stuff in it I would budget $3500 right off the bat for that. If you come in under GREAT but don't spend your whole budget before you begin because that is a good way to run out of money and not be able to finish a project.
Figure $500ish for fuel system upgrades.
$1-500 for tuning depending on mailorder vs. dyno
$200+ for a larger TB
$4-500 for rockers studs, guideplates, pushrods
There your whole budget is gone without heads or cam.
The stock crank can handle all you will ask of it, not aware of a single one overpower to the point of failure in all my years on the forums and guys have put a LOT to them, there are b-bodies that have sprayed 280hp on top of heads/cam or another couple that sprayed on top of a blower and cam or heads and cam.
05-20-2012, 01:44 PM
#14
$650+ for a decent nitrous kit
$200ish for Racetronix fuel pump upgrade
$1000+ for cam, valvetrain, gaskets
$400 for a pair of slicks without wheels or mounting
$100+Tuning
$550+ for a decent stall
$200+ for a spark based rev limiter and window switch, timing retard setup
What part of that am I wrong about?
05-20-2012, 01:50 PM
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$650+ for a decent nitrous kit
$200ish for Racetronix fuel pump upgrade
$1000+ for cam, valvetrain, gaskets
$400 for a pair of slicks without wheels or mounting
$100+Tuning
$550+ for a decent stall
$200+ for a spark based rev limiter and window switch, timing retard setup
What part of that am I wrong about?
$200ish for Racetronix fuel pump upgrade
$1000+ for cam, valvetrain, gaskets
$400 for a pair of slicks without wheels or mounting
$100+Tuning
$550+ for a decent stall
$200+ for a spark based rev limiter and window switch, timing retard setup
What part of that am I wrong about?
I dont think he can rebuild the motor, add bolts ons + H/C and come out under 7k really....
clutch or trans, rear that will prolly break, etc etc theres a lot that is not taken into account.
really going threw the motor well will cost him 1-2k, leaning towards 2k if he gets forged pistons, rods, and balancing.
05-20-2012, 02:37 PM
#17
People often underestimate the cost of supporting mods and repairs that come up along the way.
My advise would be with a $5k budget and a wounded motor as well as a car that needs a lot of supporting mods, would be forget heads at this time.
Hell $5k wont go far once you decide to build an engine.
If you want a forged crank shortblock with decent stuff in it I would budget $3500 right off the bat for that. If you come in under GREAT but don't spend your whole budget before you begin because that is a good way to run out of money and not be able to finish a project.
Figure $500ish for fuel system upgrades.
$1-500 for tuning depending on mailorder vs. dyno
$200+ for a larger TB
$4-500 for rockers studs, guideplates, pushrods
There your whole budget is gone without heads or cam.
The stock crank can handle all you will ask of it, not aware of a single one overpower to the point of failure in all my years on the forums and guys have put a LOT to them, there are b-bodies that have sprayed 280hp on top of heads/cam or another couple that sprayed on top of a blower and cam or heads and cam.
My advise would be with a $5k budget and a wounded motor as well as a car that needs a lot of supporting mods, would be forget heads at this time.
Hell $5k wont go far once you decide to build an engine.
If you want a forged crank shortblock with decent stuff in it I would budget $3500 right off the bat for that. If you come in under GREAT but don't spend your whole budget before you begin because that is a good way to run out of money and not be able to finish a project.
Figure $500ish for fuel system upgrades.
$1-500 for tuning depending on mailorder vs. dyno
$200+ for a larger TB
$4-500 for rockers studs, guideplates, pushrods
There your whole budget is gone without heads or cam.
The stock crank can handle all you will ask of it, not aware of a single one overpower to the point of failure in all my years on the forums and guys have put a LOT to them, there are b-bodies that have sprayed 280hp on top of heads/cam or another couple that sprayed on top of a blower and cam or heads and cam.
05-20-2012, 03:01 PM
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Ok I forgot to say I abosuletly don't wanna be spraying as this is gunna be a street car mostly to embarass a lot of ricers. And I don't need a stall as my car is m6 and I will never put an auto in it. So now my question is could I just redo the bottom end like forged rods and forged pistons and can a heads and cam swap be done with the engine still in the car Because I only want to have to pull the motor out once. And as for the tranny and the rear end I was kinda hoping that they wouldn't break with 400 to the wheels or is that just way to much for them? I have heard th t56 can hold more then 400 hp and I have also heard that the gm 10 bolt is garbage o and I also forgot to add I have hotchkiss suspension like I got the rear control arms hotchkiss and I think the sprins and maybe the sway bar as well I'm not sure. Also does a torque arm upgrade make a big difference for traction?