Gears & Axles - Moser vs. MWC
05-21-2012, 08:28 AM
Careful here fellas, I am not starting a vendor bashing thread. I want to understand the differences of what you get, what you pay, and what needs to be done with each.
Here is my assesment of the situation:
MWC - long wait, 8 weeks +
M9 - no wait
MWC - $200-$400 cheaper without expedite fee
MWC - build any center section, gears, whatever you want
Moser - I really like the look of their aluminum center, whcih is what I am in the market for.
Moser - will not have little tabs for brake hoses, will have drain and fill plug standard.
Please, lets not got into a pissing contest here. I want a realisitic assesment of the differences.
05-21-2012, 10:23 AM
05-21-2012, 11:40 AM
M9... great rearend, more aimed toward race cars. Torque arm uses a metal-to-metal slip joint at the front(will transmit more vibes/noises) and is only available in full length design. Drain and extra fill standard equip, LCA relocator bracket optional. Sway bar brackets available as a 50.00 option.
Brake line clips, caliper brake hose mounts, e-brake cable brackets, chassis brake hose adapter not available at all, nor is options of Watts link or 3ch abs with aluminum center section.
MWC fabricated 9" package... most popular, best value. Same rearend components go into a street rearend that low 7 second cars get. Strongest housing by design- much more weld surface, and no weight gains... strength by design.
Torque arm uses 4 hole height adjustable pivot link to attach to crossmember, isolates vibes/noise with a Energy Suspension poly bushing in the bottom of the pivot link where it connects to the crossmember. Race only applications do not use the poly bushing design. Full length or tunnel mount chromoly torque arms available, and are double adjustable. Multiple crossmembers available for both versions, all tunnel mount versions include a driveshaft loop at no extra cost.
Relocator style LCA mounts are standard equipment, as is drain plug, sway bar mounts, brake line clips, caliper brake hose mounts, e-brake cable brackets, chassis brake hose adapter... all at no extra cost.
We have any option on center sections, with all the different diff units available. We are a direct dealer for Strange, Moser, and Yukon, which makes any combo you want a possibility. We also can do 3ch ABS on any center section, even aluminum.
This is the basic story of the differences, there are a few more technical things, but I won't go into that. Yes, MWC has a bit of a wait time, but the quality and attention to detail are best in the industry. This is a custom built rearend for you and your specific application, and is a major investment in your car build.
link to Moser warranty: http://www.moserengineering.com/moser/warranty-information/
MWC warranty basically the same, but we warranty the products we build in-house for 1 year, the other components(center section, axles, bearings, etc) are manufacturer's warranty, usually 90 days.
In the end, MWC is your one-stop shop for any chassis related component for your f-body car. From the ever-popular fabricated 9 inch rearend package or S60 to a 4 pound bumper support to a full 25.3 turn-key race car, MWC has you covered. Guaranteed best prices on anything from Strange or Moser, and the street and track experience to back it up after the purchase.
Give us a call or check out the website!
05-21-2012, 01:04 PM
Several things I want to mention about the Moser M9.
The Moser LCA four hole position brackets are a no cost option.
The Moser M9 torque arm is chromoly and is powdercoated.
The Moser M9 transmission crossmember is chromoly and is powdercoated.
The Moser M9 ships out just two days after the order is received, allow two extra days if you want the housing powdercoated.
The Moser M9 is pretty quiet of the street. I have used other brands of torque arms that are louder than the M9 torque arm. My Camaro hooked hard with the M9, here is a video of it in action. Bob
05-21-2012, 01:55 PM
8 weeks won't even get you close. I ordered my MWC 9 in late Nov and didn't receive it until the end of March. I was told 12 week max. I would recommend the M9. Much faster delivery time, plus if you have any problems Moser will take care of their customers. I'm still waiting to be reimbursed for shipping damage from MWC not packing the rear end properly and trying to blame UPS. I informed Eric of the damage the day I got the rear end with pictures and here I am, tomorrow will be 2 months, that I've had the rear end and still have not had my issue resolved. I was aware of others saying that Eric pushes problems off on others, but ignored it and went with the MWC anyway and also purchased right at another $1000 worth of products from him. My advise would be to go with Bob and the M9. Or if your heart is set on a MWC 9". Mine doesn't have 200 miles on it, been filled with Redline shockproof oil, and hasn't even been close to a drag strip. I'll sell you mine so you don't have to wait and I'll pay the extra $ for the M9 and Bob/Moser's customer service. Because at the end of the day, paying $200-$300 extra is worth knowing you'll be taken care of on your $4000 purchase as apposed to being in the position I am.
If your interested in hearing ALL of the awesome details of my experience with MWC, because yes there is more, shoot me a PM and I'll be glad to tell you everything.
05-21-2012, 03:41 PM
Haha told ya to go with moser john....i had my moser rear within the week i paid for it in......no issues so far....im glad you took my advise on getting the driveshaft from bob....
05-21-2012, 03:44 PM
Oh and i sell touch up paint at work....7.99....it will help with that messed up powder coat....universal black
05-21-2012, 06:34 PM
8 weeks won't even get you close. I ordered my MWC 9 in late Nov
Your original sales ticket is dated 12-22-11 and was an estimate then. Received your first down payment of only 300.00 on Jan 21.
I'm still waiting to be reimbursed for shipping damage from MWC not packing the rear end properly and trying to blame UPS.
The MWC rearends are shipped in a full wooden box, overlaid with cardboard. The housing studs are isolated from the box and the housing ends are bolted through the box. This isn't just some cardboard box the housing will punch through and damage the ends. Keep in mind we include a crossmember and torque arm in the same package, which are physically tied to the wood box as well.
We have shipped over 600 of these rearends in the last 5 years and do it the same exact way yours was done. We recently switched from FedEx to UPS for our shipping to enhance logistics for us and your order was shipped not too soon after the switch. I told you from the start that if UPS didn't step up that I would, and you have to give me and UPS the opportunity to get it resolved.
I just today(monday 21st) received an email from UPS stating that the claim was closed due to you not being available for inspection of the parts and packaging, after they attempted 3 times to make contact with you(attempts made the 15th, 16th, and 17th according to UPS Customer service rep) and left notices each time(as I was told... yes I followed up today after I got the notice on the situation)
You gave me this ultimatum that you would spout off here if I didn't respond to your PM on the 18th... Today is the first time I have been able to get on the forum since the middle of last week. Unfortunately you are not the only customer we have and It can take a day or two for me to respond to PMs some time. Ever think about calling me? Afraid to say it over the phone? I called you and left a VM, see if you call me back now.
I and everyone at MWC takes care of their customer(s) and does it the right way. Claims do not get resolved overnight, and while you were somewhat patient about it, after the claim is filed there's not much for me to do other than keep you updated, which I did so. You'd think if we were that bad you and everyone else would have gone somewhere else, and I can sure guarantee you that's not the case. Business is as good as ever here, we are growing, moving to a new facility very soon, and will continue to serve our customers with the best products and service. With the new facility we will be able to keep the same high quality, but in due time be able to ship rearends and other components out much faster. What will they be able to say then:usa:
05-21-2012, 06:40 PM
OP... sorry about these guys and the non-info. If you have any questions on the Moser products or the MWC rearends feel free to PM, email, or call. We're here to help you with the CORRECT info.
05-21-2012, 10:09 PM
Yeah thanks for the apology Eric, I appreciate the extra effort to keep it clean. (And please no egging stuff on guys) I know it is tough and competitive, but lets keep it on the up and up. Every company has some mishaps, I make stuff for a living and while 99.9% of your customers may be satisfied, it is always the 0.1% that are the most vocal. No one works their ass off at their job trying to be THAT 0.1% either, so they SHOULD speak up. Just so long as everyone keeps it real.
I think customized specialty stuff like a fab with Watts and aluminum LCAs should take more than a more standard fab product (nothing at all against "standard") and the question is do I want to pay more in time or money? I do not know. But I was really hoping to limp the 10 bolt along until my 100th hour of beating the thing with a hammer has broken my will to live and convinced the wife I need a new rear anyway. That said, I'm not sure I can be down another 8-12 weeks. . .the old lady's patience is epic, but this is pushing it.
That Moser through bolt aluminum "looks" stronger on the eye dyno but MWC could build that, right? And how hard can it be to attach brake lines?
Eric I didn't realize I couldn't post pics in a PM, so here is my CME sans axle and PHB. THE OTA is disconnected at the Y which is why it is hanging on the PHB support. Think it will clear your Watts?
Again, Bob and Eric I appreciate you keeping it classy. You both have benefits and downsides cause that's the way things are. I'm trying to figure out what I can and cannot do. Thank you all for the clarifications.
05-21-2012, 10:55 PM
My opinion is moser engineering rear...turn around....my opinion is based off both products.....both products are very good....but it is all about customer service when u get into that price range.....
05-22-2012, 12:37 AM
I responded to Eric's reply with the facts, but decided to remove it and send it to him in a PM as to not clutter your thread OP. Just don't let the wool be pulled over your eyes on your $3000+ purchase. I've done business with LOT's of sponsors on LS1tech and will continue to. My OP was 100% truth, the fact that it was attempted to be twisted into B.S. and he got all butt hurt about me telling you about my experience with a warranty issue is a perfect example of what I was talking about in the first post. MWC makes a great 9", that's why I bought it. It's the wait time and the way they deal with problems, should you have one, that makes them come in under Bob and Moser. Period. You should take that into consideration, that's all I'm saying.
05-22-2012, 12:39 AM
OP, sorry for the clutter. Moser and don't look back.
05-22-2012, 01:10 PM
Im going Moser 9" with a DSE Quadralink for my Camaro...
05-22-2012, 01:52 PM
Here is a shakedown pass with a new Moser M9 on a 130F track temp.
I don't think that you can go wrong with either company. I am very picky about quality built parts. The Moser M9 with TA is a very nice piece. Bob is a great guy to work with on an order. Quiet unit that I would buy again.
MWC also makes quality built parts as I also run their ARB. I've had different ARB's on my car and their arb is my favorite. Another nice piece. Very good craftsmanship.
It will come down to how much custom work you want on the housing and when do you want it.
05-22-2012, 08:19 PM
M9 Here with a 3.5 PST driveshaft and no issues :)
05-22-2012, 11:52 PM
Once again, I voted with my money.
05-23-2012, 08:15 AM
x's 2. MWC on order.
05-23-2012, 08:14 PM
MWC and I have bought a bunch from them.
05-23-2012, 10:07 PM
So I made a decision, we'll see how it goes. Bob and Eric were equivalent on responsiveness, both products are clearly quality high performance pieces. Great reports on both. The deciding factor was that being my car is 1le I really wanted the watts link and aluminum lcas to up spec the suspenders even more, so I went MWC. I believe I've seen the fays link on a moser, but the rear is really an afterthought to the rest of my build and I want to get running...we will see how that goes.
I'll post back here with my experience.
05-23-2012, 10:16 PM
Glad you went with MWC. Eric is great to work with and havent had any issues. You will be fine.
05-24-2012, 10:20 PM
What kind of HP loss is expected with each?
05-24-2012, 11:46 PM
The 9" will draw more on paper for sure due to its low center pinion design, but that is also where it get's it's strength from. Most people will not see any difference on the track when it's said and done from one to the other, but if there was a difference the strength and reliability of the 9 inch rearend will outweigh the cost.
05-25-2012, 05:40 PM
A great rear end. I just started breaking mine in. Quality of build is very nice.