View Full Version : Turn signal trouble


Decadence75
05-22-2012, 09:07 AM
I replaced my DRL/Turn signal housing last night along with new sockets and came up with a problem. My front passenger light stays solid lit at all times. The turn signal doesn't cause it to blink nor do the hazards. Every other corner of the car works as intended. I checked the wiring and I believe that it is correct for the socket. Any ideas? Would the DRL module cause just 1 corner to stop working and be solid on all the time?

Thanks!

BIG_MIKE2005
05-22-2012, 09:16 AM
dumb question but you replaced the bulbs right? You didnt use old bulbs from the bad sockets did you? Cause those bulbs could also be bad. Its a multi-filament bulbs, if one breaks it can cause it to just stay lit & not blink & I have had them blink but not be lit.

Decadence75
05-22-2012, 09:18 AM
Yep, multiple bulbs were used. It's something hinky with that corner.

Decadence75
05-22-2012, 02:26 PM
Any other ideas? Inspection is coming up and I need to resolve this.

wssix99
05-23-2012, 07:08 AM
If your wiring is corect, it's a dud bulb or a flasher. If your hazards work, then it's the flasher.

Roarin_8
05-24-2012, 10:24 AM
What I used to do is have the bulb sticking out of the housing and wiggle it just a bit to see if it would start flashing, I would never put the bulbs back in the housings until I saw that they would blink. Sometimes it just has a small connection problem with the metal on the connector. Careful with your fingers, those bulbs get hot fast.

Decadence75
05-24-2012, 03:18 PM
If your wiring is corect, it's a dud bulb or a flasher. If your hazards work, then it's the flasher.

I've tried multiple bulbs and it's a new flasher. The hazards do not work either. This one light stays solid the entire time. All other flashers and hazards work properly. I'll pull out the multimeter and see if all the lines are getting voltage to the socket. Just thought it might be something nice and easy to fix :)

wssix99
05-24-2012, 05:32 PM
I'm so much more interested now! This is no longer your average turn signal thread. :)

If one light is solid, your flasher isn't flashing. (If your front sockets, bulbs, and flasher is good and your flasher is thermal, the problem could be at the back of the car.) Here are some other questions to narrow down the issue and other things to test/look for:

- Do your parking lights work properly when you turn on the headlights?
- What happens to the rear tail lights when you turn on the headlights and turn signal? Are they lighting properly and do they stay solid with the front turn signal when its solid?
- Have you checked the rear bulbs to confirm they are all the same/correct type?
- What kind of flasher did you install? Is the new one electronic?
- If you installed a thermal flasher, do you know the model number?
- Did you change the hazard flasher also?

Decadence75
05-24-2012, 10:53 PM
I'm so much more interested now! This is no longer your average turn signal thread. :)

If one light is solid, your flasher isn't flashing. (If your front sockets, bulbs, and flasher is good and your flasher is thermal, the problem could be at the back of the car.) Here are some other questions to narrow down the issue and other things to test/look for:

- Do your parking lights work properly when you turn on the headlights?
- What happens to the rear tail lights when you turn on the headlights and turn signal? Are they lighting properly and do they stay solid with the front turn signal when its solid?
- Have you checked the rear bulbs to confirm they are all the same/correct type?
- What kind of flasher did you install? Is the new one electronic?
- If you installed a thermal flasher, do you know the model number?
- Did you change the hazard flasher also?

I changed out both turn and hazard with Tridon EL12. Here are the light statuses in the various states:

Key in and turned to ON:
Both front DRL are on
Blinkers turned on - all corners flash except front passenger which stays solid lit
Hazards turned on - all corners flash except front passenger which stays solid lit

Turn on parking lights:
All 4 corners solid lit
Blinkers on - All corners flash except front passenger which stays solid lit
Hazards on - All corner flash except front passenger which stays solid lit

Turn headlights on:
Driver side DRL goes out but passenger stays solid lit
Blinkers on - all corners flash except front passenger which stays solid lit
Hazards on - all corners flash except front passenger which stays solid lit

So no matter what state that light is supposed to be in, it just stays lit.

wssix99
05-25-2012, 10:17 AM
I changed out both turn and hazard with Tridon EL12. Here are the light statuses in the various states:

Key in and turned to ON:
Both front DRL are on
Blinkers turned on - all corners flash except front passenger which stays solid lit
Hazards turned on - all corners flash except front passenger which stays solid lit

Flasher is definitely not the problem. The fact that your rear lights are flashing properly indicates that its working.


Turn on parking lights:
All 4 corners solid lit
Blinkers on - All corners flash except front passenger which stays solid lit
Hazards on - All corner flash except front passenger which stays solid lit

Turn headlights on:
Driver side DRL goes out but passenger stays solid lit
Blinkers on - all corners flash except front passenger which stays solid lit
Hazards on - all corners flash except front passenger which stays solid lit

So no matter what state that light is supposed to be in, it just stays lit.

If this happened on its own, then it would indicate look at the DRL module being bad. (There is a flashing relay in the module that turns the DRL "off" as the circuit blinks since the DRL and turn signal share the same filament.)

But... since it started right when you re-wired the socket, that makes me wonder. (The DRL module is also a really expensive part to replace!)

When the car is on and your parking brake is set, do the DRLs both turn off?

When you turn on the turn signal with the parking lights/headlights on, does the passenger bulb get brighter? (It should as in that condition both bulb filaments should be energized.)

Decadence75
05-25-2012, 05:23 PM
If this happened on its own, then it would indicate look at the DRL module being bad. (There is a flashing relay in the module that turns the DRL "off" as the circuit blinks since the DRL and turn signal share the same filament.)

But... since it started right when you re-wired the socket, that makes me wonder. (The DRL module is also a really expensive part to replace!)

My bad, I failed to mention that the DRL/Turn signal on that corner has not worked since I picked the car up last Oct. The sockets were so corroded I am suprised that the driver side worked when I replaced the bulb in it. I have just now gotten around to replacing the sockets.

When the car is on and your parking brake is set, do the DRLs both turn off?

When you turn on the turn signal with the parking lights/headlights on, does the passenger bulb get brighter? (It should as in that condition both bulb filaments should be energized.)

Nope, the parking break was on the entire time I was testing everything.

Both filaments burn at all times in the bulb except when the headlights are turned on then one filament goes out on the passenger side. The driver side goes out all together when the headlights are turned on. Signals/Hazards do not change this at all.

Decadence75
05-25-2012, 08:03 PM
I'm pretty sure at this point that it is the DRL module. One thing that I did notice today that I never paid attention to before is that when I pull the e-brake, the Brake light never comes on.

Another quirk I did not mention before was that the right signal indicator never came on with the blinker. I thought it might have been because of the dash bulb was out behind it. But today for the hell of it I tossed in some LED bulbs that I am going to be putting in once I get everything sorted out and it would cause the right indicator to come on solid. So that removed my theory about the dash bulb being bad.

Hopefully I can snag one off the parts section for a good deal since I really don't want to shell out 250-300 for this.

wssix99
05-25-2012, 11:32 PM
My bad, I failed to mention that the DRL/Turn signal on that corner has not worked since I picked the car up last Oct. The sockets were so corroded I am suprised that the driver side worked when I replaced the bulb in it. I have just now gotten around to replacing the sockets.

Corroded or burnt? Burnt is pretty normal. The plastic will char, but the metal contacts can sometimes still be good. Has anything changed with the bulbs behavior after you changed the socket? Or is it doing what it did before?


Nope, the parking break was on the entire time I was testing everything.
One thing that I did notice today that I never paid attention to before is that when I pull the e-brake, the Brake light never comes on.

Your parking brake switch is either corroded or dirty. (Over time, the copper corrodes, belly button hair collects in there, and it will stop making contact.) You can unscrew the switch, pull the copper contact out, polish it up and clean it to make it good as new. Once you do this, your BRAKE light will come on and your DRL's will properly turn off when the parking brake is set.


Both filaments burn at all times in the bulb except when the headlights are turned on then one filament goes out on the passenger side. The driver side goes out all together when the headlights are turned on. Signals/Hazards do not change this at all.

This has me stumped. I have no idea what is going on here. Was this car originally delivered to the USA. Any possibility it was a Canadian car or from another country of origin? (They have different DRL systems.)


Another quirk I did not mention before was that the right signal indicator never came on with the blinker.

I think this is OK and normal. If I recall correctly, the cluster light is out of phase with the exterior bulbs. So, when the exterior bulb is on, the indicator is off and vice versa. This is another indication that the DRL module is frozen up.

Decadence75
05-25-2012, 11:46 PM
Corroded or burnt? Burnt is pretty normal. The plastic will char, but the metal contacts can sometimes still be good. Has anything changed with the bulbs behavior after you changed the socket? Or is it doing what it did before?

Both. The socket was pretty burnt and the bulb contacts were heavily corroded from the water that was getting into the housings. You can check out the ones I pulled out here: http://carblog.signaturepcservices.com/2012/05/22/led-drlturn-signals-installed/ Although the post mentions LEDs I pulled those when I started having problems and am running all these tests with Sylvania 3157 bulbs. I was just going to change the socket itself but when I pulled the socket apart the wire ends were pretty corroded as well so I cut them off and crimped on the new pigtails that came with the new sockets.

Your parking brake switch is either corroded or dirty. (Over time, the copper corrodes, belly button hair collects in there, and it will stop making contact.) You can unscrew the switch, pull the copper contact out, polish it up and clean it to make it good as new. Once you do this, your BRAKE light will come on and your DRL's will properly turn off when the parking brake is set.

That could be. I have copious amounts of bellybutton hair! ;) I just tied this in with the DRL module because I also know that it controls this dash light as well. Could just be coincidence.

This has me stumped. I have no idea what is going on here. Was this car originally delivered to the USA. Any possibility it was a Canadian car or from another country of origin? (They have different DRL systems.)

It spent the first 9 years 7 months in southern Louisiana then over to where I am in central MS. I am finding alot of backyard rednecking on systems as I restore the car so it could be something related to that but at this point I am putting money on the DRL module.

I think this is OK and normal. If I recall correctly, the cluster light is out of phase with the exterior bulbs. So, when the exterior bulb is on, the indicator is off and vice versa. This is another indication that the DRL module is frozen up.

Is there anyway to replace relays within the DRL module? I am handy with a soldering iron and am no stranger to replacing things like capacitors in electronics.

wssix99
05-26-2012, 09:49 AM
I just tied this in with the DRL module because I also know that it controls this dash light as well. Could just be coincidence.

The parking brake switch is part of the DRL "universe" and there are many inputs to it. Having more than one thing off, makes this debugging harder - but the parking brake lever switch, its a common thing and really easy to fix once you take the center console off.


Is there anyway to replace relays within the DRL module? I am handy with a soldering iron and am no stranger to replacing things like capacitors in electronics.


Yes! I've been looking for a dud module to try this in prep for when mine goes out. (I plan on keeping my car for a long time.) You should be able to crack the module and test the relays. If you do this, please post a thread with pics for people to see. It should be an easy thing to do if a proper relay can be found.


Both filaments burn at all times in the bulb except when the headlights are turned on then one filament goes out on the passenger side.

Are you sure about this? The only time BOTH filaments should be on is when the parking lights or headlights are on and your lights are flashing. If this is really happening, you might have another issue somewhere.


The driver side goes out all together when the headlights are turned on.

Just had a thought on this. Do both the parking lights go off when the headlights are on? This shouldn't happen. This might be caused by a bad headlight switch. (There are contacts for the parking lights with two separate positions on that switch.)


I'd suggest doing a quick fix to the parking brake switch and testing the headlight switch. If you get or confirm those two things are in correct order, you might be able to fully isolate the problems to the DRL relay.

Decadence75
05-26-2012, 01:29 PM
Yes! I've been looking for a dud module to try this in prep for when mine goes out. (I plan on keeping my car for a long time.) You should be able to crack the module and test the relays. If you do this, please post a thread with pics for people to see. It should be an easy thing to do if a proper relay can be found.

I'm talking to a guy in classifieds now to get my hands on one. Once I have a spare I will break it open and take a look to see what I can find out and maybe I can come up with a repair thread.


Are you sure about this? The only time BOTH filaments should be on is when the parking lights or headlights are on and your lights are flashing. If this is really happening, you might have another issue somewhere.

Positive. If this still occurs with a working DRL module I am in for a serious headache of electrical troubleshooting.


Just had a thought on this. Do both the parking lights go off when the headlights are on? This shouldn't happen. This might be caused by a bad headlight switch. (There are contacts for the parking lights with two separate positions on that switch.)

Nope, only the driver side goes out. The passenger just goes from 2 filament to 1.


I'd suggest doing a quick fix to the parking brake switch and testing the headlight switch. If you get or confirm those two things are in correct order, you might be able to fully isolate the problems to the DRL relay.

When I get some more time to break apart the inside of the car I will try this to try and narrow thing down some more.

Decadence75
05-26-2012, 07:16 PM
I found a couple modules for sell in the parts place. Hopefully they both work fully. They I can take some time to compare one to the other and figure out what went wrong with it and maybe come up with a fix.

Decadence75
10-18-2012, 10:37 PM
Just thought I would pop in to say that I finally got this mess all sorted out. I had gotten fed up with working on it and let it go for a while and before I knew it, state inspection was due in a couple of weeks. So I bit the bullet and brought it to the stealership to have them give it a look. They ended up finding a wiring short in the dash, a bad turn signal switch and a couple other pieces they said were simply just missing from inside the steering column. Score another one for the half assed mechanic work from the previous owner. But I've swapped in my LEDs and it is now happily shining the DRLs and flashing on demand.

Endrance
10-19-2012, 09:17 AM
This has been a very enlightening thread.

wssix99
10-19-2012, 09:42 AM
Just thought I would pop in to say that I finally got this mess all sorted out. I had gotten fed up with working on it and let it go for a while and before I knew it, state inspection was due in a couple of weeks. So I bit the bullet and brought it to the stealership to have them give it a look. They ended up finding a wiring short in the dash, a bad turn signal switch and a couple other pieces they said were simply just missing from inside the steering column. Score another one for the half assed mechanic work from the previous owner. But I've swapped in my LEDs and it is now happily shining the DRLs and flashing on demand.

Wow! Thanks for posting back. Hopefully that's the extent of your hidden gremlins.

Decadence75
10-19-2012, 09:52 AM
Wow! Thanks for posting back. Hopefully that's the extent of your hidden gremlins.

I'm going to cross my fingers that is it but after seeing the various travesties the previous owner was willing to commit I will not hold my breath. It will be a long road for me to make this car whole again.