TRAGIC

I know that when manully shifting a A4 you will have a bit of a shift lag. Does anyone know how long it takes for the tranny to actually shift after you move the shifter. And also...would a TransGo shiftkit help at all with the lag? I heard that a shift kit helps correct alot of bullshit problems with the stock tranny, but i don't know for sure. One more question, what is the stock stall on a 98 TA? I'm looking to clear up alot of questions about my tranny. I know that manually shifting is good (in racing) because it helped my 1/4 time a little. I ran a 13.64 stalling at 1500 in "3", then i ran a 13.59 not stalling at all and manully shifting. Both E.T.'s were at 102mph.

GueSS Who

It was something else you did to make the ET better. 9 times of out 10 you get a better ET if you let the computer shift the car. You also don't have the lag when you do that. You can't do anything about that lag except for let the tranny shift on its own. I race in overdrive with a 4L60E and I am running consistant 6.20-6.30 in the 1/8 mile. A shift kit is not going to help you out in you lag problem either. I think the stock stall is 1700-2200. I am not sure on that one though. All I know is you need to replace it with a higher stall if you want to go fast. LOL

TRAGIC

Actually it was the manual shifting that helped. The problem is i have to shift early (because of the lag) in order to keep the car from hitting the rev limiter. When I leave the car in overdrive the car feels very slow and it shifts too early (13.64 stalling at 1500 SLOW). Do you have tuning with programmed shift points? That might be why you run better in OD. It is also very possible you can't shift quite as well as the computer does. I remember from a previous post that there was a certain amount of time it takes for the car to shift gears after the shifter has been moved (it was different with every gear), i just don't recall the actual time. I am just looking for a way around the lag.

mshiznitzh

Get it tuned.

TRAGIC

I want to get my car tuned really bad, but do you really think it is necessary with so little mods?

samz28

i dunno bout the not tuned and big maf idea.

CAT3

iTrader: (9)

Manually shifting the 4L60E you will surely find it a grave sooner than not. That is a huge mistake. Unless there is some special little circumstance with your car, the PCM will always shift faster than you could ever do, and it will hold it in the rpm range to what its set to, to maximize powercurve.
Tuning with Edit, or even Predator WILL get rid of that "LAG" you speak of. But again, the more you do, the more wear you create.
The shift kit is nice, and can take the place of the tuning for the trans,although it can still seem a little soft.
Good luck,
Charlie

kickassT/A

iTrader: (3)

^what he said. manually shift a 4l60e will destroy it over time. get it tuned, have them bump up your shift points, and leave the shifter in drive.

TRAGIC

I don't want to start anything with anybody but this has been what i have experienced first hand, not hearsay or rumors. A better ET manually shifting my A4 without stalling (13.5) vs stalling @1500 and leaving it in drive (13.64). Both of these races were the same day at the same track without any traction issues. Despite what everyone is telling me, I still belive that manually shifting really helps me out... I must have a weird car or i'm pretty stupid and hard-headed OR just a confused person that had a once in a life time experience. Maybe all 3. LOL

I want tuning for the MAF and to set the shift points but will it effect my daily driving. Having the car shift at such a high point... is it all the time or only at WOT? So, if i get tuning I won't need a shift kit?

Yes, I know i need tuning. I'd really like to learn more about my tranny and tuning but i'm still learning about my car. What else is there to tune that would really help my ET at the track. All i know is for my aftermarket MAF, shift points and thats about it! What else???

DeepBlueZ

im gonna back this guy up....when my car was stock it used to run 2 tenths quicker when clicking 1,2,3 manually....CONSISTENTLY....i could watch the tach shift itself at 5900 and i could play the delay in the shift to manually shift it at 6100...worked EVERY TIME....once i got a high stall, it didnt make a difference anymore....


also....i know everyone keeps saying that shifting a 4L60E yourself is going to blow it up....i've had 2 4L60/700R4 tranny builders tell me this is a myth. they both say that manually upshifting the car allows for more line pressure in the lower gears as opposed to letting it shift through itself with the selector in OD....this means more clamping force and less overall slippage....i don't claim to be smarter or more knowledgeable than anyone on this...it's just what i've heard and i thought i would give everyone something to think about....

why exactly would simply selecting gears one at a time hurt the transmission (assuming your not going down)???

DeepBlueZ

a full dyno tune will adjust timing curves and such and actually find you horsepower.

TRAGIC

THANK YOU DEEPBLUEZ!! I know I am not the only one that has had such good results manually shifting because all of my buddies with LS1's do the same and never once have they run slower than they did in OD. DEEPBLUEZ do you think you can ask those 4L60/700R4 tranny builders why so that I have a better understanding of how this works. Also, because I don't know how to explain it without looking like a moron. Some good facts to back up my argument would be great.

What is the stock shift point on a 4L60E, i'm probably assuming less that 6,100 rpm's. THUS, i get more out of the car at higher rpm's manually shifting then letting the computer shift earlier?

DEEPBLUEZ, I can't thank you enough man!!!! Finally i'm starting to think i'm sane again. All these people disagreeing me was really beginning to make me feel more and more like a moron.

Good to know 5,900 is the magic rpm. I really need to go back to the track. LOL. I'll post up my new times after I give it another run with a ported TB and TSP lid.

DeepBlueZ

not a problem....i thought it was weird too...

BTW: dont go by the numbers i give...i was saying that the tach was showing 5900 max rpm when the car shifted itself...

manuallly, to get the TACH to read 6100 at the shift point, i was shifting it at around 5600.

the factory tach isn't all that accurate....im just saying i used to shift 500 rpm or so early to get a shift JUST B4 the rev limiter. depending on your tach, you may have to do it slightly earlier or later to get it perfect.

the best solution IMO, is to just follow whats been said and get the shift points bumped up to that point with some tuning...then you won't have to bother.

TRAGIC

I think my lag is just a little more than just 500 rpms. But i'm going to find out for sure before I go test it at the track. Hopefully, if I get the shift points down pretty good I might be able to hit a 12 in cold weather once I add a couple more mods.

I don't think i'm going to get a stall or tuning done anytime soon. I don't have the extra cash for a stall and installation and there isn't any place open that does LS1 tuning around my area for cheap. I don't really know much about LS1 edit so I might hold off until I find someone to show me how to use it. But its definately gonna happen in the future.

Once again, thank you DeepBlueZ.

DeepBlueZ

definitely hold off on Edit if your not proficient with it....i've seen guys mess their cars up pretty good trying to tune themselves...

flyin red TA

It may work, but the trans will hate you and crap out soon.

RevGTO

iTrader: (12)

The story on the old THM trannies was to shift yourself, for the reasons Deep Blue mentions. I can certainly feel the difference in my 69 GTO TH400 - it's a much harder shift when done manually, due to the increased line pressure. But on the 4L60E, everyone always says doing it manually will ruin the transmission. But I've yet to hear an explanation of why.

DeepBlueZ

exactly....if there is some wiggle room between the stock shift point and the rev limiter, y not hold it and use that extra RPM?????

also, im still skeptical about upshifting manually being the cause of premature tranny death....i've always heard it and i don't honestly understand y...

White Fire'99

iTrader: (15)

if you want to get rid of the lag.....get rid of T/M (torque management) it pulls timing on the shifts to help prolong the life of the tranny.

thats your problem and when its gone it wakes up big time. only thing though is some see their trans crap out fast and some it will last.

do a search on T/M and see what i mean

samz28

are you really shifting manually? If you put a M6 pcm in and tried to shift, would the transmission respond? or is the shifter just an electronic gear selector?

My old vw was like this, when the DIGIMATIC pcm failed you got 3rd gear, regardless of shifting, this told me no matter what i did manually, the pcm still chose to engage the shifter solenoids.

Now i claim to know little bout the 4l60e, but if it is a truly electronic shifting (as in the gear shift is just a selector to the pcm), then shifting manually does nothing other than tell the pcm to shift.

One could test this theory, throw the shifter into 1 while doing 100mph, on old cars, you would do some damage, stall, burnout, spin, die.

If this pcm controls all,then it would ignore your shift request due to the fact its programmed to protect itself.

Thus the rules of shifting automatically or by using the shift level would still be enforced by the pcm.

What i'm trying to theorize is there is no such thing as manual shifting, the PCM controls it, you can select a gear and if the pcm is programmed to accept it it will do your bidding, if it doesn't feel its wise or programmed to do so, it will not (again programming). So with that theory, you are never manually shifting, you are just giving advice to the programming of the pcm, which it will take or not.
With this theory, there is no manual shifting so to speak.

btw, (shh) i tried this on a bosch ME Motronic 325i loaner car. I was doing 75mph in it and threw it down in 1, guess what happened, nothing, it just free-wheeled till about 20mph then rev's kicked up high. I indeed had no real control of the shifting.

So feel free to argue my ignorance, i don't know, i'd like to know the truth.

If the truth is the pcm controls all, then you can't argue manually shifting is bad, because its only as bad as the program on the pcm allows it to be..

-- feel free to debate, i know nothing, just want to learn. --