General LSX Automobile Discussion - Oil Filter Question




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BigBirdLS1
06-04-2012, 03:01 PM
So recently I have been wondering about oil filter change intervals. I'm sure we've all seen synthetic oils that "guarantee" engine protection up to 7500,10k, and even 15k miles. The oils may or may not protect up to that mileage that's not what I'm wondering.

I'm wondering if the oil filters can last that long. On "x" filter you may see 99.9% efficiency or 98.6% efficiency. Does that efficiency remain the same throughout the entire filter life or does it slowly diminish. And if it does is there a general rule as to when the filter becomes bad.

I hope all of this makes sense. Any opinions/facts are welcome.


JUSTINSWS6
06-04-2012, 03:05 PM
Ill tell you the easy and beat thing to do change synthetic oil and filter every 3 months or 3000 miles

BIGHAL
06-04-2012, 03:28 PM
No Filter will last that long! Neither will the oil! You're Crazy if your keeping the oil in your engine for 7500 miles! Racing around town in the traffic Heat and haulin Arse? That's just Dumb! If you can't afford the oil & Filter don't drive!


BigBirdLS1
06-04-2012, 03:29 PM
I definitely understand the 3000 miles thing. My DD gets every 3500 miles oil and filter.

I know the best thing to do but I'm not wanting to spend ~$50 or more every oil change when I could easily go 7500 miles or more on the oil.

I've seen multiple oil tests backing up the claims of 7500-10k miles but noone ever talks about the filters life.

BIGHAL
06-04-2012, 03:30 PM
You Can't afford it? Holy SH!&! Tests? Yeah the test is gonna favor the tested! LOL If you think said test is real! Just Like our own Government right? You believe everything they say!

BigBirdLS1
06-04-2012, 03:35 PM
I never said I couldn't afford it. I can believe me. I simply asked if anyone had any opinion/facts on how long an oil filter was good for.

JUSTINSWS6
06-04-2012, 03:36 PM
When you change your oil you are giving in more lubrication which is less wear and tear. Also gets out shavings or particles in the oil. The more you change it the longer the motor lastest.

BigBirdLS1
06-04-2012, 03:40 PM
The tests are independant labs Blackstone in particular that I sent my OWN personal oil to so there you go and those synthetics that claim engine protection to 7500-15k miles do seem to hold up based upon my own experience.

The OIL life isn't the debate here. The FILTER is what I'm interested in.

Oh BTW that whole 3k/3 month was clever marketing 50+ yrs. ago for the oil manufacturers to make more money PERIOD.

JUSTINSWS6
06-04-2012, 03:41 PM
Well depending on how many particles of dust get through the air filter or small shvings. I would trust a wix filter for 10k

JUSTINSWS6
06-04-2012, 03:44 PM
The tests are independant labs Blackstone in particular that I sent my OWN personal oil to so there you go and those synthetics that claim engine protection to 7500-15k miles do seem to hold up based upon my own experience.

The OIL life isn't the debate here. The FILTER is what I'm interested in.

Oh BTW that whole 3k/3 month was clever marketing 50+ yrs. ago for the oil manufacturers to make more money PERIOD.

I have 298xxx miles on my camary changing the oil that way. Grandpa did it since new to 250xxx and i have did it the reat of the way. if i did it every 5000 it wouldnt have lasted and still run this good and doesnt burn oil. Also when you have a expensive ls9 modified motor in a car you want to make sure its good.

BigBirdLS1
06-04-2012, 04:02 PM
I know that it is a moot point but you can't definitively say that your Camrys engine would or would not have lasted this long if you didnt change it every 3k.

I agree 100% that you didn't hurt anything though.

Grimes
06-04-2012, 04:11 PM
i have done 8k intervals with my car when i did lots of hwy driving. used m1 synthetic for the most part. oci really depend on individual use.

btw my car now has 143k on it, and runs like new

NC01TA
06-04-2012, 04:22 PM
I've owned some fine German cars in the past and the oil filters will last longer than you think. My 911 (genuine Porsche oil filters; 2 of them in these cars) lasted 10,000 miles+ easily. No issues BUT as every owner stated, why take the chance? Change the filters with the oil change. For the past 16 years of Fbody ownership I have used GM oil filters, and now Wix filters, in both my '96 Formula and '01 Trans Am. I have never bypassed changing the oil filter even though I probably could have. For $5 or $6 or whatever you pay for your oil filters, it just isn't worth leaving them on there for 10,000 or more miles. I don't rack up much mileage on my cars but everything is changed at least once a year or 4,000 - 5,000 miles. My cars are not driven hard, usually highway or cruising miles, but if they were hard traffic oriented miles I would probably change more frequently, and the filter would never be left on. Too inexpensive to even consider.

Grimes
06-04-2012, 04:52 PM
I've owned some fine German cars in the past and the oil filters will last longer than you think. My 911 (genuine Porsche oil filters; 2 of them in these cars) lasted 10,000 miles+ easily. No issues BUT as every owner stated, why take the chance? Change the filters with the oil change. For the past 16 years of Fbody ownership I have used GM oil filters, and now Wix filters, in both my '96 Formula and '01 Trans Am. I have never bypassed changing the oil filter even though I probably could have. For $5 or $6 or whatever you pay for your oil filters, it just isn't worth leaving them on there for 10,000 or more miles. I don't rack up much mileage on my cars but everything is changed at least once a year or 4,000 - 5,000 miles. My cars are not driven hard, usually highway or cruising miles, but if they were hard traffic oriented miles I would probably change more frequently, and the filter would never be left on. Too inexpensive to even consider.

Agree, sorry, I forgot to mention that I changed my filter with the oil at 8k miles.

transamtom
06-04-2012, 05:14 PM
Sure changing it at 3000 miles makes the oil company/filter maker richer.

But your also protecting your engine and keeping it sludge free.

Synthetic and a Wix here at 3000 miles always.

BigBirdLS1
06-04-2012, 05:38 PM
I agree on all points that it is best to change your oil every 3k miles. I am not disputing that. But from my experience it isn't exactly necessary. The used oil analysis that I have done. (15 or so analysis) it has shown only nominal differences in oil condition from 3000 miles up to 10k on one oil change. That is full synthetic also.

So far it looks like your filter will really last as long as you need it to. Within reason of course I'm not oblivious to the fact that the filter will need changed and I do one every time I change the oil.

Still I haven't seen any opinions or facts regarding the filter itself.

The sludge that has been mentioned isn't there because of not changing your oil on the exactly 3k rule. It is from the oil that is in your engine breaking down over mileage/time. We all know this, and answer me this : If I have seen zero difference in oil life going 3k miles exactly to going 10k so why change it at the 3k mark?

And I recently pulled the factory 87k mile heads off my LS1 and I have zero sludge and all the heads are clean as they should be. In fact the speed shop that pulled the heads asked if the odometer was right because they said that it looked more like a 50k engine than the mileage it actually was. I guess I am doing something right.

TransAmWS.6
06-04-2012, 07:35 PM
Just with my own car, I have recently found it to be a waste of money to change perfectly good synthetic oil every 3k, so I disagree with everyone in here condoning that. Both the oil and average filter can last 5-7k no problem, a lot of times you can even go beyond that. That 3k oil change interval is from many years ago. Also, why would anyone even consider going through the trouble of changing the oil and then keeping the same old filter on there?

BigBirdLS1
06-04-2012, 07:51 PM
Just with my own car, I have recently found it to be a waste of money to change perfectly good synthetic oil every 3k, so I disagree with everyone in here condoning that. Both the oil and average filter can last 5-7k no problem, a lot of times you can even go beyond that. That 3k oil change interval is from many years ago. Also, why would anyone even consider going through the trouble of changing the oil and then keeping the same old filter on there?


You sir are understanding what I am saying. I have personally gone 7500 miles on two different types of full synthetic and based upon the oil analysis I received from Blackstone I had 89% and 91% oil life on the oil that I had just drained.

Of course I ALWAYS change the filter when I change the oil. I guess my question is even though the oil will (scientifically proven) last 7500 miles when does the filter become a liability. Is there any data that shows a filters life expectancy?

BigBirdLS1
06-05-2012, 04:20 PM
I guess noone knows how long a filter is good for. Do we all assume the filter is as good as long as we need it to be...

Tim94gt
06-05-2012, 05:57 PM
I guess noone knows how long a filter is good for. Do we all assume the filter is as good as long as we need it to be...

The filter is going to be nasty after 7500 miles. Cut it in half and see for yourself. If it gets clogged the bypass valve in the filter will open and circulate unfiltered oil which can cause premature engine wear. Not worth it IMO.

If you want to change the oil in longer intervals I'd still recommend replacing the filter(filled w/ clean oil) every 3K miles.

Blwn_by_Twins
06-05-2012, 06:11 PM
There are extended mileage filters on the market, but IMO they're a waist of money at sometimes $13+ dollars. My T/A has had the oil changed 4 times since I bought it, and I have barely put 5k miles on it. It has had 5 filter changes. If you want to run the oil to 5-7k I don't think it's a bad idea assuming your using a GOOD synthetic oil, but I would stick with a Wix, or PureOne filter and change it halfway through your oil change, and just top off the little oil you lose. It will still cost you less than the E.M. filter and probably do a better job.

Just my .02

Mr Incredible
06-13-2012, 01:43 PM
Blind 3k mile changes with synthetic are insurance for not knowing anything about oil.

For a stock car that is occasionally run hard there is absolutely nothing wrong with 5k mile intervals with name brand 5w-30 and a Wix/Purolator equivalent filter. Even 7.5k miles would be just fine with synthetic and the same filters. IMO, and the hundreds of oil analysis seen on the BITOG forum, modern oils are better than ever, filters last longer than they did in the 90's, and in most circumstances the 3k mile interval is now the 5k mile interval.


(If your car is built or raced, disregard and do whatever you wish or your engine builder tells you.)

NVUSZ28
06-13-2012, 02:45 PM
No one uses K&N Filters? I swear by them.

BigBirdLS1
06-13-2012, 03:43 PM
Last time I looked K&N filter only had a 97.6% filtering efficiency. Where the purolator gold and wix have a 99.9% efficiency.

NVUSZ28
06-13-2012, 05:49 PM
Last time I looked K&N filter only had a 97.6% filtering efficiency. Where the purolator gold and wix have a 99.9% efficiency.

Never looked up any tests, but here's an independent one.

http://www.gmtruckcentral.com/articles/oilfilter/gradesheet.htm

T-Top
06-13-2012, 07:46 PM
Well depending on how many particles of dust get through the air filter or small shvings. I would trust a wix filter for 10k

Fa sho. Wix or fram. LMAO!! (Sarcasm about the fram)

T-Top
06-13-2012, 07:48 PM
Love the Wix filter BTW.

BigBirdLS1
06-13-2012, 08:37 PM
So according to that oil filter grade sheet the Fram blah blah got a higher grade than a Purolator Pure One and a Wix filter.....BWAHHAHAHAHA that is the biggest load of horse shit I've ever seen.

Fry_
06-14-2012, 01:27 PM
Never looked up any tests, but here's an independent one.

http://www.gmtruckcentral.com/articles/oilfilter/gradesheet.htm

How is it that the Wix, NAPA Gold, and Carquest filter all got completely different grades when there all the came filter made by Wix.

http://youtu.be/NyZs9gMEGAk

thatoneguybriz
06-14-2012, 08:58 PM
I had oil analysis done on my car at 3500 miles and 5000 miles using Mobil 1 5w30 and an AC Delco filter. I chose AC Delco because it has a much better filter media then say a Fram which is entirely paper including the end caps and the Delco filter is a GM certified product for the same price as the aftermarket filter brands. The levels indicated my oil was still good but I still chose to change it at that point. My view is if your daily driving and not racing there is nothing wrong with a 5000 mile interval for a good factory style oil filter and quality synthetic and I do mostly city driving. I'm switching to Amsoil next oil change and try for an even higher change interval. The key is I'm not just guessing and taking shots in the dark, the only way to know for sure is to have oil analysis done at different intervals. The is some great information at http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/

myk
06-15-2012, 02:33 AM
Why not change the oil every week? Think about how long your motor would last then...:violin:

RPM WS6
06-15-2012, 09:15 AM
Why not change the oil every week? Think about how long your motor would last then...:violin:

:nod:

Or better yet, change it after every time you run the engine, just in case. :lol:

The "cheap insurace" reasoning for 3 month/3k mile oil changes with synthetic is lost on me. If the oil is still doing it's job when you drain it, then what exactly are you insuring against? Tons of UOAs and information all over sites like BITOG show that these oils last longer than 3k in just about every normal application. Don't believe it? Then get your oil tested and see the magic! :)

Bsaint
06-15-2012, 11:26 AM
There are a lot of misconceptions out there about Oil changes I hope this article helps a lot of you break those. It seems like a lot of you have already broken the 3k oil change as have I.

http://www.edmunds.com/car-care/stop-changing-your-oil.html

Oil chemistry and engine technology have evolved tremendously in recent years, but you'd never know it from the quick-change behavior of American car owners. Driven by an outdated 3,000-mile oil change commandment, they are unnecessarily spending millions of dollars and spilling an ocean of contaminated waste oil.

Although the average car's oil change interval is around 7,800 miles — and as high as 20,000 miles in some cars — this wasteful cycle continues largely because the automotive service industry, while fully aware of the technological advances, continues to preach the 3,000-mile gospel as a way to keep the service bays busy. As a result, even the most cautious owners are dumping their engine oil twice as often as their service manuals recommend.

After interviews with oil experts, mechanics and automakers, one thing is clear: The 3,000-mile oil change is a myth that should be laid to rest. Failing to heed the service interval in your owner's manual wastes oil and money, while compounding the environmental impact of illicit waste-oil dumping.

Scared Into Needless Service
Part of the blame for this over-servicing lies in our insecurities about increasingly complicated engines that are all but inaccessible to the average driver. Pop open the hood of a modern car, and a mass of plastic covers wall off the engine. On some vehicles, the only thing an owner can easily access is the oil cap.

"Vehicles are so sophisticated that oil is one of the last things that customers can have a direct influence over," said Matt Snider, project engineer in GM's Fuels and Lubricants Group. "There's maybe some feeling that they're taking care of their vehicle if they change their oil more often."

The 3,000-mile myth is also promoted by the quick lube industry's "convenient reminder" windshield sticker. It is a surprisingly effective tool that prompts us to continue following a dictate that our fathers (or grandfathers) drummed into our heads: It's your duty to change your oil every 3,000 miles — or your car will pay the price. But as former service advisor David Langness put it, the 3,000-mile oil change is "a marketing tactic that dealers use to get you into the service bay on a regular basis. Unless you go to the drag strip on weekends, you don't need it."

Because busy car owners seldom read their owner's manuals, most have no idea of the actual oil change interval for their cars. And so they blindly follow the windshield reminder sticker, whether it's an accurate indicator of the need for an oil change or not. "I just go by the sticker in the windshield," one well-to-do, educated Denver Lexus owner said. "Otherwise, how would I know when to change it?"

A career Navy mechanic who bought an Edmunds.com long-term car just shrugged when he was told that the vehicle had safely gone 13,000 miles between oil changes. "I'll just keep changing the oil every 5,000 miles," he said. "It's worked well for me in the past."

Our oil change addiction also comes from the erroneous argument that nearly all cars should be serviced under the "severe" schedule found in the owner's manual. In fact, a quiz on the Web site maintained by Jiffy Lube International Inc. (owned by petrochemical giant Shell Oil Company) recommends the severe maintenance schedule for virtually every kind of driving pattern.

The argument that most people drive under severe conditions is losing its footing, however. A number of automakers, including Ford and GM, have contacted Edmunds data editors to request that the maintenance section of Edmunds' site substitute the normal maintenance schedule for the severe schedule that had been displayed.

About the only ones that really need a 3,000-mile oil change are the quick-lube outlets and dealership service departments. In their internal industry communications, they're frank about how oil changes bring in customers. "Many people...know when to have their oil changed but don't pay that much attention to it," said an article in the National Oil and Lube News online newsletter. "Take advantage of that by using a window sticker system [and] customers will be making their way back to you in a few short months."

Another National Oil and Lube News article tied the frequency of oil changes to success in pushing related products and services. For a midsize SUV, the stepped-up oil change intervals will bring in $1,800 over the life of the car, the article says. "A few extra services [or oil changes] can go a long way toward increasing the amount of money a customer will spend during the lifespan we estimated here," the article concludes.

Today's Oil Goes the Distance
While the car-servicing industry is clear about its reasons for believing in the 3,000-mile oil change, customers cling to it only because they're largely unaware of advances in automotive technology. Among 2010 models, the average recommended oil change interval, based on a normal service schedule, is about 7,800 miles — more than double the traditional 3,000-mile interval. The longest oil change interval is 20,000 miles, for all Porsches. The shortest oil change interval is 5,000 miles in some late-model Toyotas, but the carmaker has begun shifting its fleet to 10,000-mile oil change intervals using synthetic oil.

"Oil has changed quite a bit and most of that isn't transparent to the average consuming public," said Robert Sutherland, principal scientist at Pennzoil Passenger Car Engine Lubricants. Synthetic oils, such as the popular Mobil 1, are stretching oil change intervals, leaving the 3,000-mile mark in the dust. "The great majority of new vehicles today have a recommended oil change interval greater than 3,000 miles," said Mobil spokeswoman Kristen A. Hellmer. The company's most advanced synthetic product (Mobil 1 Extended Performance) is guaranteed for 15,000 miles.

Today's longer oil change intervals are due to:

Improved "robustness" of today's oils, with their ability to protect engines from wear and heat and still deliver good fuel economy with low emissions
Tighter tolerances (the gap between metal moving parts) of modern engines
The introduction of oil life monitoring systems, which notify the driver when an oil change is required and are based on the way the car is driven and the conditions it encounters

For 2010 vehicles, 14 of 35 carmakers are now using oil life monitoring systems. One GM car driven by Edmunds went 13,000 miles before the monitoring system indicated the need for an oil change. We sent a sample of that oil to a lab for analysis. The results showed the oil could have safely delivered at least another 2,000 miles of service.

More in the article, but didn't want to post everything

thatoneguybriz
06-15-2012, 01:32 PM
Old habits/myths die hard....

T-Top
06-16-2012, 04:46 PM
Yep, I'm a 5k on full synthetic (usually valvoline) and a wix filter guy. If no wix is available I have no problem using an ac delco.

myk
06-17-2012, 05:02 AM
:nod:

Or better yet, change it after every time you run the engine, just in case. :lol:

The "cheap insurace" reasoning for 3 month/3k mile oil changes with synthetic is lost on me. If the oil is still doing it's job when you drain it, then what exactly are you insuring against? Tons of UOAs and information all over sites like BITOG show that these oils last longer than 3k in just about every normal application. Don't believe it? Then get your oil tested and see the magic! :)

After every time I run the engine-I like that. When people ask me why I'll just say "because race car."

Today isn't 1969, when oils, filters, engines and everything else sucked ass. With the technology that goes into modern lubricants, filters and engines/machines the whole 3 month/3K oil change is a thing of the past. If an oil and filter is still doing its job past 3K miles there is no reason to change it, other than you get off on it, and if that's the case maybe you should do an oil change after every time you run the engine...

Gordon0652
06-17-2012, 07:19 PM
Oil is cheaper than metal.

oddwraith
06-19-2012, 03:25 AM
Not necessarily true. Saturn stopped using plastic panels (polyurethane=petrol/oil) as a result of the greater cost over metal. This was not the case in the beginning, but it was just before Saturn closed its productions. Oil/plastic is no longer "cheap" lol. But I see what you are saying I suppose. However, I agree with others that oil no longer needs to be changed every 3,000 mile like in days of yore. Also, getting dirty is more of a concern than oil "breakdown". Just from what I've read/my .02 cents.

thunderstruck507
06-19-2012, 08:31 AM
This thread has some of the poorest "tech" I've seen in a long time.

I wonder how many years it will take for the 3000 mile oil change myth to really die?

RPM WS6
06-19-2012, 11:21 AM
This thread has some of the poorest "tech" I've seen in a long time.

I disagree. It seems that several people now realize that the 3 mon/3k mile deal is no longer the standard rule. There is a great link & quote posted just a few posts up outlining this as well.

There will always be people that think they are somehow insuring/protecting against something by draining oil that is still working just fine. You won't change their mind, so it's best to just let them do what they want and simply ignore their advice.

thunderstruck507
06-19-2012, 01:16 PM
I disagree. It seems that several people now realize that the 3 mon/3k mile deal is no longer the standard rule. There is a great link & quote posted just a few posts up outlining this as well.

There will always be people that think they are somehow insuring/protecting against something by draining oil that is still working just fine. You won't change their mind, so it's best to just let them do what they want and simply ignore their advice.

That is true, I was referencing the posts about "their is no filter or oil that will last that long" and "my grandfathers retarded cousin second remove got 250k miles out of his engine and it's because he changed the oil and no way it could have happened with 5-7k mile oil changes"

Glad some people who have at least done some research finally showed up in the thread.

Mr Incredible
06-21-2012, 02:48 PM
I went back to the Neptune.Spacebears site to re-read their extended synthetic oil change articles. It will be a real mind-blower for the 3k mile interval crowd that have never heard of it or read it.

Paradise Garage - Mobil 1 Extended Use Test (http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/mobil1.html)

The oil life was extended greatly by top offs and the oil filter change at 12k miles.

It's a great read. Take your time. Comments/insights welcomed.

Mr Incredible
06-26-2012, 10:11 AM
That site appears to now be in arrears. My apologies. It really was an awesome test. It may be available in the future when the owners renew their site. Check back in from time to time.

Fry_
06-26-2012, 12:40 PM
Thats odd the link worked fine when you first posted it. Glad I read it then, it made me feel less bad about going 7k before my last oil change.

INMY01TA
07-04-2012, 09:35 AM
Everyone bashing Fram must not be aware that the Fram Ultra series is a very well made filter and gets respect on BITOG. In contrast, the AC Delco filters have really gone downhill since switching to the E core design.

RevGTO
07-07-2012, 12:45 AM
Our cars have highly sophisticated oil life monitoring systems. If you drive your car regularly, and are using dino, why not change your oil when the system tells you it's time? If you're using full synthetic, you can turn the light off and go safely go beyond that. Do a couple of OA's on you'll have sense of how far you can go. Change your filter when you change your oil, done.

LS1121
07-08-2012, 07:53 PM
Gee I must be Lucky....307,000 and Mobil1 Extended every 10,000 miles and a Fram orange and black filter every 5,000. I'm glad I didn't get it wrong. LMAO.