Generation IV External Engine - Crankcase Evacuation System....

A lil details on the Build before we start..
427ci NA, Ls7 Top end,11.4:1CR, 247/255 .670 .670 112+4

3in TSP True Duals w DynaMax Bullet BLOW THREW style mufflers

Im looking into running a Crankcase Evac System like this
http://www.google.com/imgres?num=10&hl=en&biw=1024&bih=653&tbm=isch&tbnid=nTUJjmXHe6qL1M:&imgrefurl=http://moroso.com/catalog/categorydisplay.asp%3Fcatcode%3D13023&docid=tiEpwuzQBOx23M&imgurl=http://moroso.com/catalog/images/25900_part.jpg&w=540&h=331&ei=dabNT_2LI6aM6QGo25imAw&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=87&vpy=160&dur=242&hovh=176&hovw=287&tx=156&ty=119&sig=110789112299084637317&sqi=2&page=1&tbnh=110&tbnw=180&start=0&ndsp=15&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0,i:72

This is all using after market sealed Valve covers w NO pcv nipple vents and a sealed oil cap

BUT instead of using there ugly big and bulky Oil Separator/Breathers (on the far right on the pic in the link)..

1. My Ls7 Valley cover has the 3/8 nipple w the baffle box on the under side of it, cut out the 3/8 nipple and go to a larger 1in nipple w a baffle or some sort so it cant suck oil.
2. From the 1in Nipple run a hose that Y's to 2 5/8 hoses down to each header weld in Nipple bung w the Moros check valves


In return your rings should seal better as the exhaust gases passing the weld in chck valves at WOT this should created Vacuum as in before the motor never creates any at WOT.
I know it says dont use w mufflers cause the back pressure will shut the valves in the exhaust but w a blow threw style bullet muffler and not a chambered muffler I dont see them being a prb...

Further If i Decide to run this system after more R&D I going to install a boost/vac gauge in the line going to the chck valves and see how much if any Vacuum this pulls at WOT, and to make dam sure theres no positive pressure feedback and at Throttle % and WOT

If anyones tried this please post your results im stupid curious right now lol

Your link doesnt work, but you can cut the nipple off the valley cover, have a -10 or -12AN bung welded in its place, use that as your vent and tee it to some headers if you're really so inclined to do so.

Link Fixed, Ya I didnt wanna run a AN fitting and have to fight w SS braid hoses thats all I think some non collapsible Rubber hose would wrk just fine

What do -AN fittings have to do with stainless braided hose besides nothing? You can put whatever kind of hose you want into the fitting, it just ensures it isn't going to leak. As nice as your build looks, no reason to half ass it at this point.

This is besides the point on what type of hose, but the nipple coming out pointing up and to the pass side head light my plan if i do it was to run the hose back over on top of the motor laying along on the inside of the valve cover and along the intake and it will get covered up by my katech coil relocation kit im going to install this wk and hide it, I cant imagine bend a SS Braided hose that big and getting it clean looking thats all

This is besides the point on what type of hose, but the nipple coming out pointing up and to the pass side head light my plan if i do it was to run the hose back over on top of the motor laying along on the inside of the valve cover and along the intake and it will get covered up by my katech coil relocation kit im going to install this wk and hide it, I cant imagine bend a SS Braided hose that big and getting it clean looking thats all

You can get a fitting in any angle you want, and that swivels.

I know this, and this is all besides the point on hose type and going back and forth about off topic comments on 2 diff post of mine is getting tiresome and not providing any input on the subject.

I' ve thought about using the exhaust mounted check valves also. The old school drag cars used them for years( cheaper then a vacuum pump) The air injection for the cats uses the same basic idea. It should help. The longer and more restrictions in the exhaust the less vacuum it will pull. Mufflers, tail pipes, and bends. Most cars use them with open headers and short collectors.

I thought about mounting them in the rear O2 sensor bungs. That way I could just screw them in and they could be easily removed if they don't work well. Another thought was if they pull too much oil it may coat the front O2 sensors.

Post back your results.

Ya I def will, Ive read that you need to put the weld in bung almost in a header primary and not to far back away from the collector for it to pull properly and that make the o2s a prb, Im prb not gonna to run any o2s besides a wide band and theres always moving the o2 upstream in one of the primarys also..

If this is set up properly and you make sure you arnt sucking oil up from where every your tapping into your crankcase for venting and it pulls good vacuum the rings should seal better and there shouldnt be that much oil and nasty stuff blowing threw your exhaust to mess w your o2s but idk if it would mess w them or not

On a factory PCV system or stock, oil vapors go right back threw the intake to be re-burned anyways but divided into all 8 cyc threw the intake manifold. You would think the exhaust gas spds are going to be alot faster in the header primarys than air flowing threw the TB where the factory pcv gets its vacuum. This would make the piston rings seal better

I' ve thought about using the exhaust mounted check valves also. The old school drag cars used them for years( cheaper then a vacuum pump) The air injection for the cats uses the same basic idea. It should help. The longer and more restrictions in the exhaust the less vacuum it will pull. Mufflers, tail pipes, and bends. Most cars use them with open headers and short collectors.

I thought about mounting them in the rear O2 sensor bungs. That way I could just screw them in and they could be easily removed if they don't work well. Another thought was if they pull too much oil it may coat the front O2 sensors.

Post back your results.

Chck out Post #5

http://www.stevesnovasite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=139153



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGrx2rvIxJ0

On my block im goin to tap the dipstick bore and use a sealing threaded dipstick.
Seal off all unused pcv ports on vc. Run lines from each vc to dp welded check valves.
will locate downstream of o2 sensors. Both factory nb and wb.
Dont see reason why it shouldnt work :thinker:

On my block im goin to tap the dipstick bore and use a sealing threaded dipstick.
Seal off all unused pcv ports on vc. Run lines from each vc to dp welded check valves.
will locate downstream of o2 sensors. Both factory nb and wb.
Dont see reason why it shouldnt work :thinker:

Only prb might be the area your talking about welding in the chck valve bungs..Iv read that if its not in or directly behind where the priamary goes into the collector of the header it wont wrk as well, thats why i ould move the o2s more upstream heres a drawing for ya ...

Just noticed that this drawing is different than moroso's instructions, If u flip the weld in pipe 180 from this drawing thats how moroso shows to install theres w the slash cut tip flipped 180

Only prb might be the area your talking about welding in the chck valve bungs..Iv read that if its not in or directly behind where the priamary goes into the collector of the header it wont wrk as well, thats why i ould move the o2s more upstream heres a drawing for ya ...

Yea thats how I've seen them used. You have to have the velocity of the exiting gases pull a vacuum. An elec pump might be easier if only using at the track.

Forgot to mention its a turbo car. I also considered the primary area. But since its gonna be located on the turbo downpipe right behind the wb. I figured it should under climbing rpm. I just assumed at part and idle it would also make a difference. But wot even more.
I dont think the dp area should have too much trouble pulling the vacuum. But ive been wrong before:judge:

Update, Kit ordered should have it on this wk end and fired back up.

Im going to give this a test run w the factory 3/8 nipple first and hook the gauge up and see what happens before opening the hole up and using a 3/4 outlet, w the intake its going to be a tight fit getting a large tube in there to clear the block around the valley and not get in the way of the intake sitting flat.

w the exhaust rushing over the weld in tubes creating vacuum pulling the vapors out, may not have to use a bigger outlet on the valley plate pcv nipple.

On my block im goin to tap the dipstick bore and use a sealing threaded dipstick.
Seal off all unused pcv ports on vc. Run lines from each vc to dp welded check valves.
will locate downstream of o2 sensors. Both factory nb and wb.
Dont see reason why it shouldnt work :thinker:

If u pull from you dipstick hole for crankcase venting your probably going to suck out a bunch of oil.... the valley plate is the #1 spot to get crankcase venting from 2nd choice would be Valve covers, Ive read the GM Realized the Valley was a better spot and vented better than the valve covers that why all the newer stuff has a valley plate vent, I dont think the heads allow enough venting Threw them as oil is either going up and in to lube the Valve train than after, Drain back down into the pan.

The Valley is wide open dead space and is a much better spot w not alot going on in there.

If u pull from you dipstick hole for crankcase venting your probably going to suck out a bunch of oil.... the valley plate is the #1 spot to get crankcase venting from 2nd choice would be Valve covers, Ive read the GM Realized the Valley was a better spot and vented better than the valve covers that why all the newer stuff has a valley plate vent, I dont think the heads allow enough venting Threw them as oil is either going up and in to lube the Valve train than after, Drain back down into the pan.

The Valley is wide open dead space and is a much better spot w not alot going on in there.

I think he is talking about sealing the dip stick hole up witha threaded one. Then pulling from the valve covers. I agree with you on using the valley.

Gonna bore and tap dipstick bore on block to use threaded tube and the dipstick handle also seals to tube. Wont be push in like stock. Not gonna pull from dipstick hole. I want ot threaded so it can be as airtight as possible. also got a vented valley cover.

Gonna bore and tap dipstick bore on block to use threaded tube and the dipstick handle also seals to tube. Wont be push in like stock. Not gonna pull from dipstick hole. I want ot threaded so it can be as airtight as possible. also got a vented valley cover.

Right on I re read it twice and just wanted to make sure I understood ya lol

hook a hose to that valley cover and try to blow in it
you may find that is quite restrictive, and i doubt you will see flow sufficient to do a good job of crank evac.
pulling from each valve cover would be unrestricted flow to each header, unfortunately much more oil will also come with it (unless you use a catch can)

i think the whole dipstick modding is a waste of time and effort to do or even discuss. it has an o-ring on it, will be just fine not that it would contribute to any measurable leak in the first place.

if you are to use any muffler at all i would not bother with the header evac kits, as they barely work in the first place.

*edit* i forgot to add another note while on my header evac soap box. your rear tires (and all the guys racing after you) will not appreciate oil being sucked out of the engine and being blown down onto them. please consider :)

hook a hose to that valley cover and try to blow in it
you may find that is quite restrictive, and i doubt you will see flow sufficient to do a good job of crank evac.



because they have check valves, try sucking on the hose...works much better

you sure you arent thinking the header valves? cuz the valley cover is a fixed orifice, pcv 'plumbing' but no valve.

hook a hose to that valley cover and try to blow in it
you may find that is quite restrictive, and i doubt you will see flow sufficient to do a good job of crank evac.
pulling from each valve cover would be unrestricted flow to each header, unfortunately much more oil will also come with it (unless you use a catch can)

i think the whole dipstick modding is a waste of time and effort to do or even discuss. it has an o-ring on it, will be just fine not that it would contribute to any measurable leak in the first place.

if you are to use any muffler at all i would not bother with the header evac kits, as they barely work in the first place.

*edit* i forgot to add another note while on my header evac soap box. your rear tires (and all the guys racing after you) will not appreciate oil being sucked out of the engine and being blown down onto them. please consider :)

Right on agreed, one real problem I see is if i want to put a bigger outlet out of the valley cover w using a plastic intake they sit so close and dont leave alot of room to weld in anything much bigger Im running a factory gm LS7 intake and I cant see how in the world Id fit a -12 fitting in with out it getting in the way of not letting the intake sit flat to seal and than ya got 1/4 of block material to watch out for when u bolt the valley plate back on

Vacuum pump FTW. For now I'm just going to run a line from each cover to a catch can with a breather on it.

Right on agreed, one real problem I see is if i want to put a bigger outlet out of the valley cover w using a plastic intake they sit so close and dont leave alot of room to weld in anything much bigger Im running a factory gm LS7 intake and I cant see how in the world Id fit a -12 fitting in with out it getting in the way of not letting the intake sit flat to seal and than ya got 1/4 of block material to watch out for when u bolt the valley plate back on

http://www.aeicnc.com/gen-iv-chevrolet-ls-engine-billet-lifter-valley-cover.html

They'll add whatever size bulkhead you want.

cool, anyone got one already and tested the fitment?

cool, anyone got one already and tested the fitment?


it fits perfect, its already been tested on several cars...otherwise Bob wouldnt sell it.. and I know Bob personally... Just bought him lunch the other day.

I use the LS1 version, plus some custom baffles and I use a Moroso Vacuum pump setup as well....and a custom mounting bracket from Bob at aeicnc.com

he makes several different brackets to mount the Moroso Vacuum pumps

it is also required that you buy an ATI crank Damper with a special hub that is made to use with the Moroso Pump...


it will cost you quite a bit more than the $100 Header Evac system...but it will also be guaranteed to work 10x better than the header evac system as well.

If you contact bob, he can tell you specific details about what you need for a complete system and he can get you prices..

basically...
Moroso Pump and Bracket
ATI Damper with Hub
Catch Can
Valley Cover
custom baffles or a really good oil/air separator
some fittings and Hose (12an)
Belt for Pump
Pressure relief valve
a little bit of patience and time.
and a way to measure how much vacuum you are actually making (make too much and you suck the oil right off the wrist pins of the pistons and damage your engine...)

U saying the header evap kit could create enough vacuum to suck the oil off the wrist pins?

No.. I never said that.....

You'd be lucky to get 10InHg out of a header evac kit...lol

lol thats what I was thinking but just double checking

http://www.gzmotorsports.com/LSXVPK.html

Hey guys, I did this exact setup on my LT1 car years ago. I would not recommend doing this on a street car with a full exhaust. I couldn't get enough localized vacuum with full exhaust and in fact ended up pressurizing the crankcase at high RPM. It was a worthwhile experiment, but I ended up capping off the ports in the headers and going back to a regular breather/catch can setup. A Vacuum pump should work though.

Hey guys, I did this exact setup on my LT1 car years ago. I would not recommend doing this on a street car with a full exhaust. I couldn't get enough localized vacuum with full exhaust and in fact ended up pressurizing the crankcase at high RPM. It was a worthwhile experiment, but I ended up capping off the ports in the headers and going back to a regular breather/catch can setup. A Vacuum pump should work though.

Think it would do the same thing w a dyno max bullet blow threw muffler?

Think it would do the same thing w a dyno max bullet blow threw muffler?

Probably not. It needs ultra low restriction for the venturi affect to work.

Interesting ... add a bung to the collector and let the venturi effect take over and dont worry about a catch can... I think it wont pass emissions testing but if its not a street car then its a moot point

Interesting ... add a bung to the collector and let the venturi effect take over and dont worry about a catch can... I think it wont pass emissions testing but if its not a street car then its a moot point

Hmmmm, for a non-emissions street car this might have some merit. Thinking about my 1965 Buick Skylark with a L92 motor.

dont get your hopes up guys