Automotive News, Media & Press - Edmunds Dyno-Test - 2013 Mustang GT500 vs 2012 Camaro ZL1

Dyno-Tested: 2013 Ford Mustang Shelby GT500 vs 2013 Chevrolet Camaro ZL1

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By Jason Kavanagh | June 4, 2012

It's still a shock, this 2013 Ford Shelby GT500. The thought that anyone with $55-ish grand can plop into a Ford dealer and drive out in a 200-ish-mph car... it's just batty, in the best way possible.

Dan took his sweet time driving the GT500 cross-country, and now it's time to get busy with it. First off, we visited our usual dyno haunt, MD Automotive in Westminster, CA, to get a better idea of its fortitude. All in the name of science, of course. Click the jump to see our results.

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The 2013 GT500 isn't a supercar per se, but its 5.8-liter supercharged V8 engine's stats have officially put the supercar establishment on notice. Factory ratings of 662 horsepower and 631 lb-ft of torque at the flywheel. In a Mustang. America is awesome.

Its mill has roots in the original "Modular" engine that debuted in the 1991 Lincoln Town Car with 190 hp, but for the GT500 the unit has been so comprehensively overhauled that there's little beyond bore spacing common among the dental records. Let's take a looksee at what 22 years hath wrought:

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It's just a monster of a torque curve, that. On the Dynojet 248 chassis dyno, we measured a peak of 603 lb-ft at the wheels arriving at 3900 rpm. There's more than 500 lb-ft (at the wheels) on tap between 2200 and 6000 rpm, which is just a juicy, dirty mound of torque in a production pony car engine.

Peak power at the wheels of 595 hp was recorded at 6600 rpm. The peak here was amongst some noise in the data that was present in all runs, so go ahead and mentally scribe a line through the peaks and valleys if you like. There were a couple of runs that eked out a bit more peak power. As always, the run shown here is a statistical average that I compute using a pair of organic ocular sensors and an elaborate posterior-scratching process.

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And as always, the run displayed here entailed a fully-warmed -- but not heat-soaked -- engine, obtained with a cooldown period between runs. Speaking of dyno runs, judging by the engine note this mill is a mite pissed-off, even more so than the 2010 GT500 we dyno-tested.

Full disclosure: we didn't fill this car's fuel tank ourselves, as the GT500 came straight from Ford's local vehicle prep company immediately prior to our test (they gave it fresh tires and brake pads after Dan's roadtrip). We can only assume there was the usual local "premium" 91 octane in the tank, but it's a pretty safe assumption.

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Here's a fun one. Below is a dyno chart of the GT500 and our longterm 2011 Mustang GT 5.0. Think the latter is strong? Consider this:

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When the GT500 is generating its peak torque of 603 lb-ft, the 5.0 is piddling out 330 lb-ft, or a bit more than half that of the GT500.

It took some time, but the Modular engine has hit its stride in a way nobody could ever have conceived even just a few years ago. But how does it stack up to its crosstown rival, the Camaro ZL1? Glad you asked.

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Decades of rivalry between Ford and Chevy have culminated into the quite-loony 2013 Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 and 2013 Ford Shelby GT500. They're the two biggest-gun pony cars ever turned loose by their respective manufacturers, collectively blowing clean past the 1000-horsepower threshold like it was wet tissue paper, amassing a grand total of 1,242 horsepower.

You already know that the GT500 is the stouter of the two, but have their manufacturers padded their numbers at all? And what about the shapes of their respective torque cuves? Plus, um, gurgly V8s are fun.

We aimed to learn the score, so we tested the 2013 GT500 and 2013 Camaro ZL1 on the same dyno on the same day by the same operator using the same methodology. Even if you don't give a whit about any of that, dyno testing allows us to capture all the snorts and sounds from these two leviathans, which alone is worth the visit.

Click the jump for the video and dyno results.

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Elimination of variables produces the best results when it comes to dyno-testing. And with our same-times-four environment, we've eliminated the hell out of some variables.

We'll focus on the ZL1 since we've already shared the GT500's dyno result. The ZL1 borrows the supercharged pushrod 6.2-liter "LSA" V8 from the Cadillac CTS-V and gains some 24 hp in the process thanks to revisions to the intake and exhaust. It's an engine architecture that debuted in 1997 as the LS1; variants went on to find homes in countless GM vehicles from trucks to the Corvette ZR1 and everything in between. Today, GM's got the LS architecture dialed.

In total the ZL1's factory ratings are 580 horsepower and 556 lb-ft of torque as measured at the flywheel. One would expect the 580-hp Camaro ZL1 to produce 82 fewer peak horsepower than the 662-hp Shelby GT500 when tested on an engine dyno.

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When you factor in drivetrain loss, the gap between the two cars should shrink slightly. So in terms of chassis dyno results, really we'd expect the ZL1 to produce something closer to 75 fewer horsepower than the GT500.

Reality doesn't care about your freaking algebra. Here's what we found when we tested these cars on MD Automotive's Dynojet chassis dyno:

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There's a lot going on here. First off, peak numbers for the ZL1 -- it kicked out a nice round 497 horsepower and 497 lb-ft at the wheels with that classic dome of a torque curve we've come to expect from this engine architecture. It was terrific on the dyno in terms of staving off heat, each run liberating a few more ponies than the last. Even a dozen runs in, the ZL1 exhibited no signs of power-sapping heat soak and just settled into a groove. It's a real-world, near-as-dammit 500 rwhp pony car right from the factory. You just can't help but be impressed.

Impressed, that is, until you see that the GT500 produced 105 lb-ft and 98 horsepower more power than the ZL1.

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But back to the ZL1 for a moment. Around 3400 rpm the butterflies in its exhaust open, uncorking the LSA's sound signature in a big way. Then at 6200 the LSA V8 reaches an abrupt fuel cut, in stark contrast to the GT500's "soft" rev limiter.

To our ears the GT500 has the better-sounding engine. But such things are subjective, so we won't dwell on that except to reiterate that the GT500 has the better-sounding engine.

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One factor in the larger-than-expected gap in peak power between the two cars pertains to that drivetrain loss -- the ZL1's independent rear suspension just might have more drivetrain loss than the GT500's live rear axle. See, the ZL1's power takes a more tortured path to the ground as it passes through the u-joints that support the two axles at each end.

This explanation assumes the transmissions, driveshafts, differentials and tires of the two cars exhibit similar loss characteristics. Your guess is as good as mine, unless you're a Ford or Chevy drivetrain engineer, in which case your guess is about a million times better than mine.

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Although the GT500 revs some 800 rpm higher, note that the GT500's power advantage does not come solely via revs -- at 6000 rpm where the ZL1 is generating its peak 497 rwhp, the GT500 churns out 575 rwhp. In fact, to match the ZL1's peak power, the GT500 requires just 4500 revs on the tach.

Clearly, the GT500 breathes more deeply than the ZL1 despite giving nearly a half-liter of displacement to the Camaro. Notable advantages for the Shelby include four-valve heads and a larger Eaton blower (the GT500 gets a TVS 2300; the ZL1 a TVS 1900).

But technical reasons are not at the root of GM's power deficiency (as if any ~500 rhwp car could ever be described as "power deficient") as the LS9 in the ZR1 proves there's additional potential lurking in the LS-series engine. And there's the rub. Nobody at GM would willingly allow any car in their stable to out-power the ZR1, their flagship sports car, so they're dealing with a pecking order situation. It's an artificial power cap that the GT500 simply does not have to contend with.

Sticky situation for GM, then. Still, there's that reality thing we talked about earlier, and laying right there is the gauntlet that Ford threw down, waiting to be picked up. It's your move, GM.

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gm has flat out fucked up and been outdone 100x over. dont worry about your precious zr1 having less power!!

They created the 2012 ZL1 to compete with the 2012 GT500...and it destroyed it to the point where people dont even look at it...maybe GM will step it up a bit for the 2013 model, only time will tell.

Also, with the 6th gen coming up, and rumors of using the much lighter ATS chassis, I'm sure we're not done going back and fourth here.

They created the 2012 ZL1 to compete with the 2012 GT500...and it destroyed it to the point where people dont even look at it...maybe GM will step it up a bit for the 2013 model, only time will tell.

Also, with the 6th gen coming up, and rumors of using the much lighter ATS chassis, I'm sure we're not done going back and fourth here.

the problem with that, is that they were then making the zl1 to compete with a car that's been on the road for nearly a year. personally, i think it's stupid that ford releases the next model year so early, but they do it. so if the 012 was on the road since last april or so, and they've only just now put out a car to wipe it out.....then they're going after a year old car. they should've aimed at the 013, which was in testing at least since 2011....so they should've known about it, and been able to adapt.

They created the 2012 ZL1 to compete with the 2012 GT500...and it destroyed it to the point where people dont even look at it...maybe GM will step it up a bit for the 2013 model, only time will tell.

It should have bowed with the LS9 which I posted repeatedly before it even debuted. I'm still surprised they went with anything less.

They created the 2012 ZL1 to compete with the 2012 GT500...and it destroyed it to the point where people dont even look at

Since when did the ZL1 "destroy" the 12? 12s are still a huge bargain

thats a serious power gap.



it wouldve been even better to race them. and test each cars handling.

So much disdain for GMs first attempt at this type of car. Let's keep it in focus that Ford has been working the Shelby since 2005.

I can't honestly believe the bashing that goes on for a first attempt car. Is it on par with the '13 GT500 - not in a straight line, and not for power. Has it had over 8 years of development - NO!

Just to be honest, I think the new GT500 is a world-class kick in the butt from Ford. Amazingly executed as well. This not only forces GM's hand, but many other brands making supercars for well over 100K without this kind of power and performance.

The good news is that GM is on the verge of a new lineup of engines....so we can only hope that the next gen Camaro receives a diet and a healthy dose of power to remain competitive in the showroom stock situations.

It absolutely astounds me that you can buy a Vette, Viper, Mustang, and well....not quite a Camaro (yet) with 600+ HP right of the showroom floor. In 20 years, our children will be getting around in electric automated scooters, constantly jealous of our "glory days of HP back around the 2010s." :cheers: These are great times to be a car enthusiast.

first attempt?

shelby since 2005?

both incredible monster

So much disdain for GMs first attempt at this type of car. Let's keep it in focus that Ford has been working the Shelby since 2005.

I can't honestly believe the bashing that goes on for a first attempt car. Is it on par with the '13 GT500 - not in a straight line, and not for power. Has it had over 8 years of development - NO!

Just to be honest, I think the new GT500 is a world-class kick in the butt from Ford. Amazingly executed as well. This not only forces GM's hand, but many other brands making supercars for well over 100K without this kind of power and performance.

The good news is that GM is on the verge of a new lineup of engines....so we can only hope that the next gen Camaro receives a diet and a healthy dose of power to remain competitive in the showroom stock situations.

GM engineers all but called out the '13 GT500, so I believe the comparisons are valid. I still think the Camaro would be the better performer if it had equal power as the GT500, but that power gap has the Camaro staring at tail lights in every drag racing scenario and more-than-expected road course scenarios. I still think both cars could benefit tremendously from a wider tire...

It absolutely astounds me that you can buy a Vette, Viper, Mustang, and well....not quite a Camaro (yet) with 600+ HP right of the showroom floor. In 20 years, our children will be getting around in electric automated scooters, constantly jealous of our "glory days of HP back around the 2010s." :cheers: These are great times to be a car enthusiast.

Agreed. We live in great times. If only we could have the gas prices of the '90s back... :(

thats a serious power gap.



it wouldve been even better to race them. and test each cars handling.

Ikr both right there should have race each other

Ikr both right there should have race each other

i'd sooooo love to see that.

Both cars are amazing :D
Is it me or does ZL1 hit the limiter at the peak power RPM 6000-6100rpm? Looks like the HP is still raising..

I wish GM gave ZL1 a LS9 520-540rwhp will be atleast close to 590rwhp G500.

Any numbers from GT500 at the Ring?

They created the 2012 ZL1 to compete with the 2012 GT500...and it destroyed it to the point where people dont even look at it.

Not quite.

The ZL1 makes about 10-15 more rwhp and traps about the same mph in the 1/4 as a 2012 GT500. I wouldn't call that "destroying" it. I think it just adds to the embarrassment GM is probably feeling.

gm has flat out fucked up and been outdone 100x over. dont worry about your precious zr1 having less power!!

Your an idiot.

Not quite.

The ZL1 makes about 10-15 more rwhp and traps about the same mph in the 1/4 as a 2012 GT500. I wouldn't call that "destroying" it. I think it just adds to the embarrassment GM is probably feeling.

I agree. I thought the new gt500 was a 351 turns out to be a 355 I may be wrong? Also the gt500 is clearly the faster car but still going to be interesting when both are modded going heads up.

They just dyno'd an auto ZL1 at EPS and it made 548whp with a intake and pulley. I know the GT500 is still the king but it shouldnt be too hard for the Camaro guys to keep up with the stock 500's. Now once the Gt500 starts modding then yeah they will have to do that much more. An auto 5th gen with 550whp should be good for 10's on drag radials.

The big thing that does stand out is the guy is right. Same when the vette LS1 was rated at 350 and our cars were rated at 305hp. It can't have more or similar power than a ZR1. They did cap the power, lets get real. With that said the GT500 is an awesome ride and something to be proud of.

Ford wins this round and this year

But I can't wait till the next gen camaro when it goes on a major diet, cause the lb is what's killing these cars.

I mean a 150hp less vette that's now 7yrs old is slightly faster than the gt500.

As Mr. Lotus once said "if you want your car to go fast add a bigger engine. But if you want your car to go faster, brake better, handle better and last longer subtract weight" which is something I totally look forward to as far as next gen camaro. But once again, good job to ford for their awesome car.

I agree. I thought the new gt500 was a 351 turns out to be a 355 I may be wrong? Also the gt500 is clearly the faster car but still going to be interesting when both are modded going heads up.

not necessarily. it seems that that 10.02 was with a lot less work than it took to get the zl into the low 11;s./.........but we need to wait to see the complete list.

Your an idiot.

:angel:

They just dyno'd an auto ZL1 at EPS and it made 548whp with a intake and pulley. I know the GT500 is still the king but it shouldnt be too hard for the Camaro guys to keep up with the stock 500's. Now once the Gt500 starts modding then yeah they will have to do that much more. An auto 5th gen with 550whp should be good for 10's on drag radials.

At 550rwhp it might still be at a realistic 70rwhp disadvantage to a stock GT500.

At 550rwhp it might still be at a realistic 70rwhp disadvantage to a stock GT500.

But this was done through an auto, if it were 6 speed the numbers would be higher. Now im only talking 1/4 mile performance here but it is pretty realistic to say an auto 550whp car would beat or at least run with a 600whp 6spd car.

But this was done through an auto, if it were 6 speed the numbers would be higher. Now im only talking 1/4 mile performance here but it is pretty realistic to say an auto 550whp car would beat or at least run with a 600whp 6spd car.

The extra 20rwhp I figured in was for the 200+lb weight difference.

And if the guy can drive the 6spd the auto is going to be of no benefit for the Camaro, we aren't bracket racing.

The extra 20rwhp I figured in was for the 200+lb weight difference.

And if the guy can drive the 6spd the auto is going to be of no benefit for the Camaro, we aren't bracket racing.

i hear ya, im just saying with average drivers, auto's usually quicker. I could see a guy with a 550whp auto car running with a guy out there in his new gt500. But you are right when talking good drivers.

I just don't get all the people that say GM screwed up in some way. They built an awesome car that is faster than anything that was out at the time. There is an old poker term called showing your hand. When that happens, you give your opponent a chance to trump. GM showed their hand first with the ZL1 and Ford trumped. Kudos to them! I for one am glad they are willing to play the game because that will just push GM harder. Any statement saying that GM should have known what the '13 GT 500 would have is just ignorant. It was closely held by Ford, no one knew and that's why everyone is so surprised.

As stated, what a great time to be an enthusiast!!!

I just don't get all the people that say GM screwed up in some way. They built an awesome car that is faster than anything that was out at the time. There is an old poker term called showing your hand. When that happens, you give your opponent a chance to trump. GM showed their hand first with the ZL1 and Ford trumped. Kudos to them! I for one am glad they are willing to play the game because that will just push GM harder. Any statement saying that GM should have known what the '13 GT 500 would have is just ignorant. It was closely held by Ford, no one knew and that's why everyone is so surprised.

As stated, what a great time to be an enthusiast!!!

i'm the main one i think saying that gm should've known what ford was up to. i understand ford kept this close to themselves.....but there is no such thing as a secret if more than 1 person knows about it. these things nearly always have a way of leaking out.
i love this stuff, 'cause i'm getting to live through horsepower wars that put the horsepower wars of the 60's to shame. and this time, i'm old enough to appreciate it.

all that said, i think that it's mostly gm guys saying that gm screwed up. those of us old enough to know better like em all, and know that they need to play this game.

Everyone is so fast to poo-poo GM right now, but take a look at the past decade just between the Fbody's and Mustangs, let alone vettes, Ford GT's, ect:


2001 Cobra < 2002 Fbody
2003 Cobra>2002 Fbody
2010 Mustang GT < 2010 Camaro SS
2011 Mustang 5.0 > 2011 SS
2012 GT500 < 2012 ZL1
2013 GT500 > 2012 ZL1

Looks like they have both been pretty admirable opponents IMO. Now that Ford's base model V8 has been ahead of the base model V8 Camaro for a few years, everyone thinks GM is lacking somehow. Need I remind people of the 90's? Ford made some absolute turd Mustang GT's, but that hasn't stopped them from coming back and making some amazing cars.

Hell, 10 years ago, cars that went 200+mph included cars like the Ferrari Enzo...now for $60k, a Mustang does that. We should embrace the HP wars, because we all benefit from it as enthusiasts. It's not like GM will admit defeat here...it's going to keep going until Uncle Sam shuts it down.

2002 Cobra < 2002 FbodyI think you mean 2001 Cobra (there was no Cobra in 2002)?

I think you mean 2001 Cobra (there was no Cobra in 2002)?

There was a 2002 cobra, it was only released in Australia. lol

The ZL1 is ridiculous, id rather have a CTS-V cause all they did was take one and put a new body on it basically.

If you have a 2002 Cobra you are sitting on a gold mine.

And that is not sarcasm. They were made but only something like 100 were released.

I think you mean 2001 Cobra (there was no Cobra in 2002)?

oops, yep.
fixed :angel:

first attempt?

shelby since 2005?

both incredible monster

First attempt - have you been able to purchase a supercharged Camaro before from the showroom floor? If yes, can I have it:drive:

Shelby since 2005 - GT500 was released as a 2007 model in Jan where production began in Dec of 2006...to say they weren't already working on the project in 2005 would be ridiculous (you can say the same for the ZL1, work started in 2010 or 2011 for sure, but see point 1).

Absolutely agree on incredible monsters. As stated, the GT500 is clearly leading this battle by a considerable margin (at least in HP and straight line capability - road course remains to be seen). I love being a car guy right now!

I actually hope Dodge gets involved in this one too. While the SRT8 is a great car, it's over-priced by comparison, and needs some serious power upgrades to play at this level (so does the Camaro as it were).

I am tired of the GM Corvette King of the Hill mentality. It's not like a LS9 powered Camaro could fringe on the ZR1s performance anyway. I would like to see GM start building the bottom end of the LS series to handle more power though, Ford has done a great job in this department.

There was a 2002 cobra, it was only released in Australia. lol

The ZL1 is ridiculous, id rather have a CTS-V cause all they did was take one and put a new body on it basically.

CTS = Sigma Chassis

Camaro = Zeta II Chassis

More like a driveline implant than a body swap.