New LS1 Owners - Newbie Tech - will 317 heads work on my ls1

i just got my 2000 ws6 about a mounth ago right before i got deployed to afganistan and now im looking for a good heads and cam do yall think 317 heads will work on my car and if so what kind of cam will i need?


here is the info on the heads oh yeah and there only $250

The 317 heads are identical to LS6 heads, except that they have a larger combustion chamber. The heads can be safely milled to raise the compression ratio. Less than 27K miles on these heads. They are complete with yellow LS6 valve springs.

I would pass on the 317's unless you are going to go forced induction. You have to mill alot off to get back to stock compression. Then you run into piston to valve clearance problems. I would look for some 241's or 243/799's and work those heads. Search 317 heads in the internal engine section there are a bunch of threads about what it takes to get the compression up on a 346ci with 317's.

Agreed, unless you're going with boost I'd pass on them and keep an eye out for some used 243 or 799 casting heads. that's the LS6/LS2 head and they will perform better than your stock heads and the 317 castings!

ok cool thanks guys what would be a good cam to go along with the ls6 heads? im just looking to be around 450hp nothing to crazy

What kind of driveability are you looking for? Do you have any boltons on this car or is it stock? Exhaust and intake manifold should come first before the H/C combo. Also to get to your 450 hp goal that head/cam package needs to breathe.

yeah i got the tsp 1 3/4 long tubes and the tsp true duals full slp cold air system and im looking for an ls6 intake

and driveability its my daily driver for now

yeah i got the tsp 1 3/4 long tubes and the tsp true duals full slp cold air system and im looking for an ls6 intake

and driveability its my daily driver for now

This would be my choice for a daily driver... 114 lsa
http://www.texas-speed.com/p-1148-texas-speed-228r-228228-588588-camshaft.aspx

ok cool thanks ill order that cam as soon as i find me some ls6 heads

check the used parts section below .a 228r cam is a good DD cam.whats your budget ?

wel im trying to pay off my car right now but i still have a good size budget about five grand to go into the whole car

oh ya 5 grand is plenty, especially if you do the work your self. If you have a shop put it together, h/c of course hardened pushrods and .600+ lift valve springs, then a dyno tune you are looking @ $3500-$4000. Labor prices can be ridiculous.

heck yeah i hear ya labor is ridiculous. yeah im going to be doing it all my self ill have the garage to myself for about a month when i get back to start and finish everything i need to get done and than try and find a good dyno place in az to get a good tune

I ran 317s with my old budget setup... Worked perfect, car ran better ET/mph than most people would have guessed for the setup.
The 317s were milled .030 and hand ported, I would guarantee they worked better than most sponsors stage 1 ls6 head.

You can usually get heads milled for around 150$. You can find 317s for 200 or less if you search, you will have 350$ in a head that will perform better than a stock ls6 head (because of the raised compression) that costs 500$+.

I ran mine with a similar cam to the 228r... Mine was 226/228 .588 114

If you are going to go that route though let me know.. I sold the heads to a buddy of mine but he is going with a D1 so bought a stock set of 317s, he is selling the heads I had. My cam was specd to use with those heads in mind, so a 228R would work perfect.

I ran 317s with my old budget setup... Worked perfect, car ran better ET/mph than most people would have guessed for the setup.
The 317s were milled .030 and hand ported, I would guarantee they worked better than most sponsors stage 1 ls6 head.

You can usually get heads milled for around 150$. You can find 317s for 200 or less if you search, you will have 350$ in a head that will perform better than a stock ls6 head (because of the raised compression) that costs 500$+.

I ran mine with a similar cam to the 228r... Mine was 226/228 .588 114

If you are going to go that route though let me know.. I sold the heads to a buddy of mine but he is going with a D1 so bought a stock set of 317s, he is selling the heads I had. My cam was specd to use with those heads in mind, so a 228R would work perfect.


But 243s are the only head that makes power ;) OP they will work fine, they will need some work obviously

look at a head/cam combo from vengeance racing or Texas Speed.a ls6 intake will support 440 rwhp,but a fast intake compliments a good set of heads.

look at a head/cam combo from vengeance racing or Texas Speed.a ls6 intake will support 440 rwhp,but a fast intake compliments a good set of heads.

Umm no, LS6s drop off to something like a FAST pretty quick as soon as you swap out a cam, even something as mild as a 224

The ls6 intake doesn't lack so much keeping up rwhp as the rpm limitations. They fall off around 5800rpms .. This is where the huge gains come from a fast swap especially with a cam.

^Amazes me how someone else finally understands

oh ya 5 grand is plenty, especially if you do the work your self. If you have a shop put it together, h/c of course hardened pushrods and .600+ lift valve springs, then a dyno tune you are looking @ $3500-$4000. Labor prices can be ridiculous.

Hardened pushrods are from the days of engines with guideplates...which these engines don't have.

Hardened pushrods are from the days of engines with guideplates...which these engines don't have.

Still with a bigger cam it is cheep insurance to go ahead and have hardened pushrods, I have seen small cams bend factory pushrods with a tune in about 3K miles.

^Amazes me how someone else finally understands

;) It hasn't been a secret to me for a while.

Apparently to everyone else it has been. It amazes me that engine dyno tests have been done on little 224 cam only LS1s on the engine dyno where the FAST picked up almost 20/20 over an LS6 and people still think anything under 450rwhp wont see gains

No secret. I see dynos from bolt on cars swap from a ls6 to fast setup and gain... BUT when u have a mild-high lift cam the volume and big runners from the FAST help that cam work to full potential.. squeeze out every pony lol

Hardened pushrods are from the days of engines with guideplates...which these engines don't have.

Really I guess everyone that modifies LS and LT engines is wrong.

Really I guess everyone that modifies LS and LT engines is wrong.

I thought I read that wrong..... :eek2:

Sometimes I think I'm getting stupider and stupider. Then I think about it..... LOL

I recently built a LS1 that made 448 rwhp naturally aspirated. 243 heads with oversized valves and ported by Elliot portworks, 227/231 .614/.617 112lsa. Stock LS6 intake, stock LS1 injectors, single 3" exhaust, long tubes, no cats.

Mentioning the particular specs because your goal is 450.... This setup is choppy as hell and a little extreme for a daily drive in my opinion.

loved my 228r. took me to low 7's with stock 241's. great cam all around. just remember to always try your best to build for what you may be doing in the future. if you ever plan on going with boost, why not get a boost cam. etc etc.....

Still with a bigger cam it is cheep insurance to go ahead and have hardened pushrods, I have seen small cams bend factory pushrods with a tune in about 3K miles.

Oh I'm not disagreeing that higher quality pushrods over OEM are worth it, especially when you also need a different length, or you want them to be lighter...but hardened has nothing to do with their resistance to bending, hardening on pushrods is a surface level heat treatment to the metal to keep it from galling/wearing on a guide plate. Gen 3 and 4 engines will never need guide plates due to the rocker base design, so hardening is not necessary. Using a better material that's just stronger and making them better in the first place certainly does have it's benefits.

Really I guess everyone that modifies LS and LT engines is wrong.

Well, actually, LT engines DO use guide plates (not from the factory though)...at least the aluminum head versions do, they have screw in rocker studs...you can get away with self aligning rockers on an LT1/LT4 if you keep the cam lift mild, but when you go big, you need to go to guide plates and non-self aligning rocker arms...and when you do that, yes you absolutely must also run hardened pushrods. Can't do that on an iron head LT1/L99 without pulling out the pressed in rocker studs first, then machining the rocker bases down lower, then drilling/tapping the holes for screw in studs...and at that point, you should really just invest the work/time in aluminum LT1 or LT4 castings anyways. Some Gen 1 SBC heads (iron ones) also have a guide plate of sorts built in to the head itself too...the pushrod holes are just wide enough to allow the pushrod through with support to align the rocker, and in that case, I believe those engines came right from the general with hardened pushrods.

Oh I'm not disagreeing that higher quality pushrods over OEM are worth it, especially when you also need a different length, or you want them to be lighter...but hardened has nothing to do with their resistance to bending, hardening on pushrods is a surface level heat treatment to the metal to keep it from galling/wearing on a guide plate. Gen 3 and 4 engines will never need guide plates due to the rocker base design, so hardening is not necessary. Using a better material that's just stronger and making them better in the first place certainly does have it's benefits.



Well, actually, LT engines DO use guide plates (not from the factory though)...at least the aluminum head versions do, they have screw in rocker studs...you can get away with self aligning rockers on an LT1/LT4 if you keep the cam lift mild, but when you go big, you need to go to guide plates and non-self aligning rocker arms...and when you do that, yes you absolutely must also run hardened pushrods. Can't do that on an iron head LT1/L99 without pulling out the pressed in rocker studs first, then machining the rocker bases down lower, then drilling/tapping the holes for screw in studs...and at that point, you should really just invest the work/time in aluminum LT1 or LT4 castings anyways. Some Gen 1 SBC heads (iron ones) also have a guide plate of sorts built in to the head itself too...the pushrod holes are just wide enough to allow the pushrod through with support to align the rocker, and in that case, I believe those engines came right from the general with hardened pushrods.

Really. I ran a .595 lift cam on Self Aligning rockers and never had a problem. And stock LT1 or LT4 castings do not use guideplates from the factory. Find me 10 more people that would run a mild cam like i did (228/236) with either rocker and stock pushrods, bet you will be hardpressed