Cadillac CTS-V - Gonna pull the trigger on heads

Total engine airflow cnc ported 225cc trickflow heads with 70 cc chambers.
Getting push rods and arp studs; just trying to decide on rockers.
http://www.totalengineairflow.com/products-page/products/cnc-ported-cylinder-heads/gm1/ls1ls21/trick-flow-225cc-gm-ls-cylinder-heads/
Tried calling them today; but guess I missed them before close.
Going to get that whipple back on.

Nice! Def necessary with the whipple but not a lot of people want to spend $2k or more for heads alone when that is a huge chunk of a 408 build. I won't be doing heads on mine. Cam only with spray and if it blows, I'll spend the money to build a nice 408 stroker setup.

Check out the Comp Cams #1500 system.

Or I found these
http://www.ebay.com/itm/TMS-CNC-ported-heads-317-71cc-up-55rwhp-ls1-ls2-5-3-5-7-6-0-lsx-assembled-/270985607469?hash=item3f1800392d&item=270985607469&pt=Race_Car_Parts&vxp=mtr

Check out the Comp Cams #1500 system.

those are bad ass; out of my budget with the TEA heads.
But if I went with the Ported LQ4 317 heads I could do those.
Suggestions?

Id go with a set of trick flow heads or AFRs personally with the whipple. Thicker deck is better for boost.

Yup... What Allen said. When I was considering heads for my car, I was told to stick with AFR or Trickflow 225's for the best gains...

True for NA but flow numbers don't matter so much for FI. I'm not really trying to push every ounce out of the heads(yet) but am more concerned about lowering the compression. I imagine both the TF and ported 317's would perform about the same in my application. Deck thickness on the other hand makes me wonder on better choice; boost pressures aren't going to be high yet but future plans are a consideration too. I guess the question is whether the TF heads are 500.00 better or not?

True for NA but flow numbers don't matter so much for FI. I'm not really trying to push every ounce out of the heads(yet) but am more concerned about lowering the compression. I imagine both the TF and ported 317's would perform about the same in my application. Deck thickness on the other hand makes me wonder on better choice; boost pressures aren't going to be high yet but future plans are a consideration too. I guess the question is whether the TF heads are 500.00 better or not?

Thicker deck is worth the money. It will reduce the chance of lifting the heads once you up the boost. Talk to a sponsor on here and see what they reccommend. I have read a lot of good things about the TFS 220 as cast and they are relatively cheap.

those are bad ass; out of my budget with the TEA heads.
But if I went with the Ported LQ4 317 heads I could do those.
Suggestions?

I have a set of Texas Speed Stage 2.5's on the top.

http://www.texas-speed.com/p-4-prc-stage-25-ls6-cnc-ported-heads.aspx

They seem to work very well.

What cam are you running? Almost any after market head will outperform a factory casting, so if you have the coin, I wouldn't even consider the factory piece.

TFS requires you to use aftermarket rockers regardless of valve lift, AFR does not. If your cam is on the low .600's I would go with the AFR 220 since you can save money using OE rockers, anything more I would get the TFS castings.

Stock cam right now so lift isn't a problem. I still may choose roller rockers over a trunion upgrade. I think I might give AFR a call; good thing I came here before jumping the gun.
Just wondering if 75cc will be a too much of a compression drop?

You wont be disappointed, TEA did my TFS as cast milled to 62cc cut down and installed ls3 valves for the size of the cam its makes stupid power. Well worth the extra money vs a stock casting.

Just called AFR; they recommend the 235's not sure if the 220's are available' for my engine' the sales guy kept sying the don't offer a 220?
Anyway they also recommend roller rockers but stockers would work; I imagine with a trunion upgrade.
Price on those are 2600.
cheaper if i use stock rockers' not so much if I go with roller rockers.
So AFR with stock rockers or TFS with roller?
Oh yeah and production time is 5 weeks from AFR.

What are you putting them on engine wise? I dunno about AFR but TFS offers a 220/225/235. Generally the 225's are for Ls2/Lq9 and the 235's are ls3/l92. I went with the TFS 220 as casts and honestly I can see the cnc'd versions being leaps and bounds better for the extra 700 dollars. 463rwhp with a mid 230s cam and an inadequate fuel pump is a no brainer. I run the Yella Terra's but Ive heard TEA offers a powdered metal valve guide option that allows you to run stock rockers...and someone said you can "shim" them for the correct geometry.

If you have an aftermarket cam, go with Yella Terra's and stay away from Harland Sharps.

What I gathered from my conversation from AFR is the 220 heads are made after the L98 but are meant for non LS SBC.
So as it stands now I am going to go with AFR 230 (235 was a typo in my last post) with a trunion upgrade for the stock rockers. Seeing as I'm still on a stock cam they should be fine. I'll go roller rockers when I decide on cam.
I'm also going to get new LS7 lifters and trays; hardened push rods and ARP studs.
I may loose some bottom end with the 230 heads; but that isn't going to matter with the whipple. Plus they are still good heads when I decide to increase displacement.
The price should be around the 3K mark which is about I want to spend.
If anybody has any objections speak now :) does this sound like a solid choice?

I run the Yella Terra's but Ive heard TEA offers a powdered metal valve guide option that allows you to run stock rockers...and someone said you can "shim" them for the correct geometry.

TFS will void the warranty on the heads if this is done even with the PM guides.


What I gathered from my conversation from AFR is the 220 heads are made after the L98 but are meant for non LS SBC.
So as it stands now I am going to go with AFR 230 (235 was a typo in my last post) with a trunion upgrade for the stock rockers. Seeing as I'm still on a stock cam they should be fine. I'll go roller rockers when I decide on cam.
I'm also going to get new LS7 lifters and trays; hardened push rods and ARP studs.
I may loose some bottom end with the 230 heads; but that isn't going to matter with the whipple. Plus they are still good heads when I decide to increase displacement.
The price should be around the 3K mark which is about I want to spend.
If anybody has any objections speak now :) does this sound like a solid choice?

Sounds like a solid plan to me. You're not going to be spinning fast enough or require a cam with lift to mandate aftermarket rockers with a Whipple. Let the boost do the work. Very doubtful that you will give up much (if anything) with a twin screw.

For some reason I thought they offered a 220...they have 210, 215, and 230. My bad. Are you staying with stock cubes? What springs are you having installed?

Stock cubes for the forseeable future; but one day its the plan. Didn't get into springs' I was going to go off of their recommendation. They said they were good up to .600 lift; I don't think they would be over 400# open pressure as there upgrades are at 410. I wouldn't mind a little more than stock seat pressure for the blower but not so much that it will wear my rocker tips.

Cant go wrong with AFRs, if you have the money its one of the best set of heads you can buy. Contact Tony Mamo on here he is a vendor and helped design AFRs head and does incredible port work on them(for way more then you wanna spend) but Im sure he would love to talk to you and really get your setup optimized before you make the purchase.

Ya, Tony Mamo is the man.....he's doing my heads/intake/cam/TB setup for me now. He can tell you which heads and what rockers to use.

Too late I already ordered. Oh well I wouldn't have wanted to spen more on additional porting with minnimal gains on a blower set up. If I was NA i would jump on it for sure.
Heads, cometic head gasket and arp studs, plus shipping is already over 3100.
Now I gotta order trunion upgrade, lifters and trays from summit. Anybody now of a good/right push rod checker from summit?
And thanks guys you really steered me in the right directions for heads.

Make sure those holes are nice and clean when you go to put those studs in, having just done head studs I've got to say contrary to what I've heard getting the heads back on after studding was a cake walk. Good luck sir.

What was your cleaning method for the threads?
Compressed air?
Solvent?
Q-tips?

What was your cleaning method for the threads?
Compressed air?
Solvent?
Q-tips?

I used about 4 cans of compressed air, and a bore brush from a 12 guage shotgun to clean the threads after. There was a lot of red threadlocker stuck in the threads on mine, that was a pita. Main thing is if you feel resistance before the stud is close to the bottom DO NOT force it. Screw the stud or bolt back out and see why it's getting stuck.

To recap
A couple cans of dusters.
A soft metal shotgun bore brush.
And a cloth bore brush to clean out anything loose.

This whole process made me rethink getting air tools.

Too late I already ordered. Oh well I wouldn't have wanted to spen more on additional porting with minnimal gains on a blower set up. If I was NA i would jump on it for sure.
Heads, cometic head gasket and arp studs, plus shipping is already over 3100.
Now I gotta order trunion upgrade, lifters and trays from summit. Anybody now of a good/right push rod checker from summit?
And thanks guys you really steered me in the right directions for heads.

Sounds good man, you'll be happy I'm sure.

One question I have; maybe someone can clarrify and put my mind at ease?
People say not to run stock rockers with bronze valve guides on aftermarket heads; is that only a problem with higher lift cams?

Are studs really better than bolts for the heads?

Are studs really better than bolts for the heads?

I think it's more of a preference thing really.
I'd be running studs because of two things:
1. Boosted engine
2. Frequent head removal

I don't plan on either, so I went with bolts.

Easiest way to clean the threads that I have found is to take one of the old TTY headbolts and grind a "V" into the threads of the bolt using a bench grinder...this will loosen all the crap in the threads when you run the bolt down so you can blow them out with brake-clean (brake clean evaporates completely) and air.

MAKE SURE THAT THERE IS NO RESIDUAL LIQUID IN THE BOLT HOLES OR YOU WILL CRACK THE BLOCK!

Are studs really better than bolts for the heads?

Yes, as long as you do them properly. Do you need them on an NA engine not really, studs by design have more clamping force. If you have a motor that is running high boost you will gain reliability from studs and it will help you avoid head lift. Oh and as said earlier once they are in, it makes a world of difference if you have to pull the heads again, no more cleaning bolt holes in the block. If your in there and you have the money they are a good buy, at 300 the arp's are pricey but worth it.

Yes, as long as you do them properly. Do you need them on an NA engine not really, studs by design have more clamping force. If you have a motor that is running high boost you will gain reliability from studs and it will help you avoid head lift. Oh and as said earlier once they are in, it makes a world of difference if you have to pull the heads again, no more cleaning bolt holes in the block. If your in there and you have the money they are a good buy, at 300 the arp's are pricey but worth it.

Boosted motors 100% should get head studs, N/A motors are actually better off with bolts.

Boosted motors 100% should get head studs, N/A motors are actually better off with bolts.

I know you don't need studs on a NA motor, whats your reasoning on why bolts are better? Curious here.

Good info on cleaning the block holes
One question I have; maybe someone can clarrify and put my mind at ease?
People say not to run stock rockers with bronze valve guides on aftermarket heads; is that only a problem with higher lift cams?

Anybody here have an opinion; I put off ordering from summit pending my desicion on rockers. I may just order some yella terras and be done with it.

I know you don't need studs on a NA motor, whats your reasoning on why bolts are better? Curious here.

I dont remember the technical specs details but it has to do with how the bolts compress. Tony Mamo is building a sick setup for my buddies Z28 and he described the reasoning for bolts instead of studs. Liek I said its far more advanced then I can explain lol.

I dont remember the technical specs details but it has to do with how the bolts compress. Tony Mamo is building a sick setup for my buddies Z28 and he described the reasoning for bolts instead of studs. Liek I said its far more advanced then I can explain lol.

F me in the A......I ordered ARP studs. :(

I don't think you'll suffer any...

You'll be alright, while I have no doubt that Tony Mamo knows more on the matter than I do i haven't ever had issues with studs on NA motors over the years.

F me in the A......I ordered ARP studs. :(

Trust me I wouldnt be concerned, I was merely stating was was passed along to myself by a buddy who is having Tony Mamo build his entire top end.