View Full Version : best rear end fix for gen 1 v's???


brizzle
06-22-2012, 04:12 PM
im wondering what the best fix for the rear end is? and what is the cheapest but most reliable fix?

heavymetals
06-22-2012, 04:19 PM
"cheapest but most reliable fix"

Don't beat on it.

Failing that, don't do clutch dumps and that includes "power shifting".

If you are not gonna do those, then there isn't a "cheap fix".

Gus_Mahn
06-22-2012, 04:32 PM
"cheapest but most reliable fix"

Don't beat on it.

Failing that, don't do clutch dumps and that includes "power shifting".

If you are not gonna do those, then there isn't a "cheap fix". Pretty much agree with that. I'd say no clutch dumps, and no 1-2 speed shifts, no sticky drag tires, and very limited drag strip use. I speed shift 2-3 all the time. My 80K car is still on its original diff. No humming, but the dealer changed the ring/pinion and bearings at 50K.

Cheap/reliable/fast: you can only choose two. Cheap and reliable don't generally go together. No kit will be cheap. If you have the skills and motivation, I'd bet you could put something together for $1500-$2500. If you want a bolt in "kit", you'll be spending $5,000+.

Skidmarcx
06-22-2012, 04:46 PM
Cheapest is find a used diff... Reliable would be go with the latest version diff and dont be stupid with it... Depends on how you're gonna drive the car before we can give you a proper response

1BADCTS
06-22-2012, 04:55 PM
If I ever get my car back I'm testing this! Probably the cheapest insurance currently available.

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d90/mark_woodruff/1957de27.jpg

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d90/mark_woodruff/5158c5f8.jpg

heavymetals
06-22-2012, 06:50 PM
Looks like a diff becoming Borg.

meatyCTS-V
06-22-2012, 07:12 PM
By the time you spend all the money upgrading your diff...

You could sell your car and put the money for diff upgrades towards the down payment on a nice V2 wagon ;)

Just sayin...

-meaty

RADEoN
06-22-2012, 07:23 PM
why the hell do you type -meaty after every post? you do realize there's forum signatures, right?

vmapper
06-22-2012, 07:25 PM
best fix? lol I guess Gforce 9" full rear. cheapest? lol, better sell the car.

scottylow
06-22-2012, 10:35 PM
I have been wondering the same thing my diff is starting to whine and I am debating repairing it or putting the latest version diff in it. I don't have to 5k to get an 8.8 kit. Would it even be worth repairing it? It's an 05 with 67k miles.

NeverSatisfied02
06-22-2012, 11:35 PM
8.8. And now u all know why I sold my shitty diff v1 for my built rear v1... Lol

furbe
06-23-2012, 09:47 AM
If I ever get my car back I'm testing this! Probably the cheapest insurance currently available.

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d90/mark_woodruff/1957de27.jpg

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d90/mark_woodruff/5158c5f8.jpg

you put some time into this and it's some nice work ...but..

seems to me like the forces that break these things are great enough to

flex your brace at the 90 degree connections unless you were to

tie the other side and top into it creating a true diff "girdle"

The pinion gear is trying to walk off (or push away) from the

ring gear and if you tie both sides of the case together wouldn't

it resist these forces better?

I'm no engineer or expert that's just my 2 cents but it looks great

and surely can't hurt.

Also, what about the different materials which expand and contract at

different temps? You are binding an aluminum housing with a steel

brace. When you heat it up to 300 degrees will it cause bearings and/or

bushings to become mis-aligned?

Just throwing it out there........

one more thing, what is the second hole in the bottom plate for? One is the drain and ??

brizzle
06-23-2012, 10:11 AM
well my v is my dd but i run it every now and then at the drag strip and street race some too. Like scottylow said mine is starting to whine too and was considering putting the latest version on mine but was wondering if it was worth it? is there a noticeable difference between them? cuz i dont really have 5k+ to drop

1BADCTS
06-23-2012, 01:14 PM
you put some time into this and it's some nice work ...but..

seems to me like the forces that break these things are great enough to

flex your brace at the 90 degree connections unless you were to

tie the other side and top into it creating a true diff "girdle"

The pinion gear is trying to walk off (or push away) from the

ring gear and if you tie both sides of the case together wouldn't

it resist these forces better?

I'm no engineer or expert that's just my 2 cents but it looks great

and surely can't hurt.

Also, what about the different materials which expand and contract at

different temps? You are binding an aluminum housing with a steel

brace. When you heat it up to 300 degrees will it cause bearings and/or

bushings to become mis-aligned?

Just throwing it out there........

one more thing, what is the second hole in the bottom plate for? One is the drain and ??

Nah, this is budget friendly reinforcement. The only other option is go spend the $3K+ for the other options out there.

Yes boxing it is best, but the geometry and space don't make it practical. If only there were mounting points on the other side of the diff, but unfortunately there is nothing. 1/4" plate is stout... I'm not worried about it. I'm not worried about CTE either, it works out to less than 3 thicknesses of paper.

That second hole is for clearance around a second, unused boss in the diff housing. That was so I could have the plate as close as possible to the bottom of the diff.

See ya guys!
Mark

gsx-lex
06-23-2012, 04:56 PM
I like it!

If I ever get my car back I'm testing this! Probably the cheapest insurance currently available.

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d90/mark_woodruff/1957de27.jpg

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d90/mark_woodruff/5158c5f8.jpg

CTSV_510
06-23-2012, 05:28 PM
I have had the latest version diff in my car for 4 years and 40k miles with 450 rwhp and been to the track only once for three passes, but it's holding up just fine. Plenty of hard 1-2 shifts and tail slides over the years in daily driving and it's not whining, not leaking, and hasn't broken. I have never dumped the clutch though so I don't know how it would hold up to a whole lot of that, but I don't see any reason to spend several thousand dollars just to be able to dump the clutch. Maybe I'm lucky but I haven't had any reason to spend any money back there yet on a diff, axles, etc.

meatyCTS-V
06-23-2012, 10:57 PM
why the hell do you type -meaty after every post? you do realize there's forum signatures, right?

Mostly just out of habit. Been posting on forums for the better part of 13 years, and I dunno, just keep on keepin' on, ya know?

-RADEoN

gsx-lex
06-24-2012, 01:35 PM
I have had the latest version diff in my car for 4 years and 40k miles with 450 rwhp and been to the track only once for three passes, but it's holding up just fine. Plenty of hard 1-2 shifts and tail slides over the years in daily driving and it's not whining, not leaking, and hasn't broken. I have never dumped the clutch though so I don't know how it would hold up to a whole lot of that, but I don't see any reason to spend several thousand dollars just to be able to dump the clutch. Maybe I'm lucky but I haven't had any reason to spend any money back there yet on a diff, axles, etc.

The truth. I don't baby my V, but I also don't beat it senseless (2007, so I'm also on the latest revision). Personally, I wouldn't mind the reinforcement of bracing it like what 1BADCTS made.

TheLostDriver
06-25-2012, 09:55 AM
What do you guys mean by "latest version" of diff?

garrettg
06-25-2012, 10:29 AM
I have 22k on the latest gen 4 diff had it installed 12 months ago(dealer replacement) and it's starting to whine 6th gear 55-70mph so don't let the gen 4 fool you into thinking it can't or won't whine.

lollygagger8
06-25-2012, 11:30 AM
9" is best solution.


Who in their right mind buys a V if they are going to beat on it?

garrettg
06-25-2012, 11:51 AM
CS has the 8.8 kit on sale for right about 4k seems like a decent deal if you don't know much about it rebuilding a 8.8, like myself, and want a solid bolt in solution.

etcts-v
06-25-2012, 12:26 PM
A brand new differential (2nd version) from the dealership runs about $2k. If my 2004 goes out on me, that will be my approach. True this fix won't be the strength of the $5k solutions but I don't beat on my car, drag it or gun it in 1st any so I'm not uber concerned about it.


http://www.tonkinonlineparts.com/p/gb/Cadillac__CTS/CARRIER-Final-Drive/6396820/25873498.html

brizzle
06-25-2012, 02:26 PM
What is the difference between my diff and the latest diffs?

etcts-v
06-25-2012, 02:34 PM
Correction, I meant the 4th generation:

1st - 10361308
2nd- 10368780
3rd- 15793756 installed in '06 & '07.
4th- 25873498 released in 2008

Both the 1st and the 2nd are considered inferior to the 3rd and 4th, I couldn't tell you specifics on why.

9t8z28
06-25-2012, 04:19 PM
That girdle looks a lot like the T/A girdle I have.

1BADCTS
06-25-2012, 10:17 PM
That girdle looks a lot like the T/A girdle I have.

Yes, I've seen that one. They are similar in principle. I have this programmed on the CNC plasma cutter so I could easily tweak the design & make some more in the future.

scottylow
06-25-2012, 11:48 PM
That was my concern. If the stock one goes south I don't want to spend time and money to put on the latest P.O.S. only to have it go out too in a few months. Although the 8.8 is a little pricey I think if I hang on to the car I am going to go that route.

itsslow98
06-26-2012, 12:11 AM
There is no cheap reliable rear and I doubt there will ever be. Honestly even with an 8.8 or 9" i wouldnt have high hopes that even that would take the abuse of serious HP if anyone besides very few ever went north of 600rwhp.

TheLostDriver
06-26-2012, 10:30 AM
I know that 4th gens are known to whine but how many of those whines have really turned to blown?

DougNuts
06-26-2012, 11:39 AM
I know that 4th gens are known to whine but how many of those whines have really turned to blown?

Read the third sticky from the top.

I would venture to guess a lot of diffs have blown and it's unfortunate how easy it is to blow one up. That's why I tell everyone that the V is a touring car, don't buy one if you want to drag race or beat on it.

yooperLS6
06-26-2012, 10:21 PM
IMO complete V2 rear subframe. prices should start dropping soon.:usa:

DougNuts
06-27-2012, 09:40 AM
IMO complete V2 rear subframe. prices should start dropping soon.:usa:

Woah, it bolts in?!

04Vguy
06-27-2012, 12:24 PM
^this

D Block
06-27-2012, 03:24 PM
I love reading all these rear end threads... Granted, its not the best or strongest design, but its not as weak as people think IMO.. I've owned my v for 2.5 yrs. now. I've replaced the motor, tranny, and just did the drive shaft for the center coupler. The rear is still goin! I've been to the drag strip, and done SEVERAL 1-2, 3-4 power shifts, and plenty of rolling 1st gear burnouts. I don't have major power either, just bolt ons.

I bought my car because i wanted a fast n fun ride with 4 doors. I drive it like i stole it everyday!!!! Lol

its an 06 wit 93000 btw.

DougNuts
06-27-2012, 03:34 PM
I love reading all these rear end threads... Granted, its not the best or strongest design, but its not as weak as people think IMO.. I've owned my v for 2.5 yrs. now.

Do you know if you have revision 3 or 4 diff?

Around 60% of the V1's made could have weaker differentials than yours, assuming yours wasn't replaced before you bought the car. I also think some small revisions were done to help combat wheel hop on the '06-07 cars. Those of us with '04-05's can get into wheel hop pretty easy and that's what kills the diffs quickly.

9t8z28
06-27-2012, 03:42 PM
Yes, I've seen that one. They are similar in principle. I have this programmed on the CNC plasma cutter so I could easily tweak the design & make some more in the future.

Any interest in making me one?

BudRacing
06-27-2012, 03:52 PM
Any interest in making me one?

I wonder if these guys could handle it?
http://www.emachineshop.com/

1BADCTS
06-27-2012, 06:43 PM
Any interest in making me one?

Of course! :usa:

Let me get it on my car to validate exhaust clearance... or I'm working with another local guy who may bring his car by and we'll put one on his. I'll let you know!



Back to the topic of the thread, for an 'all out' drag setup I would do a 9" or the CS 8.8. I have several CS products on my car and they meet all of my expectations!

For a budget build, buy a 4th gen diff cheap ($300) from an SRX or several other cars (just be sure to match the 3.73 gear ratio), swap out your posi carrier (5 minute job) and never look back. You can do reinforcment like the CS bushings, poly diff block, or a girdle and you're probably OK for a good long while!

-Mark

etcts-v
06-27-2012, 07:21 PM
Of course! :usa:

For a budget build, buy a 4th gen diff cheap ($300) from an SRX or several other cars (just be sure to match the 3.73 gear ratio), swap out your posi carrier (5 minute job) and never look back. You can do reinforcment like the CS bushings, poly diff block, or a girdle and you're probably OK for a good long while!

-Mark

I like this option!

9t8z28
06-28-2012, 06:20 AM
Comparing it to my diff girdle, your design is perfect as far as exhaust clearance. Its actually a little better. I build custom exhaust so so even if it didnt clear, i would modify my CorsaOf course! :usa:

Let me get it on my car to validate exhaust clearance... or I'm working with another local guy who may bring his car by and we'll put one on his. I'll let you know!



Back to the topic of the thread, for an 'all out' drag setup I would do a 9" or the CS 8.8. I have several CS products on my car and they meet all of my expectations!

For a budget build, buy a 4th gen diff cheap ($300) from an SRX or several other cars (just be sure to match the 3.73 gear ratio), swap out your posi carrier (5 minute job) and never look back. You can do reinforcment like the CS bushings, poly diff block, or a girdle and you're probably OK for a good long while!

-Mark

vmapper
07-05-2012, 09:26 PM
There is no cheap reliable rear and I doubt there will ever be. Honestly even with an 8.8 or 9" i wouldnt have high hopes that even that would take the abuse of serious HP if anyone besides very few ever went north of 600rwhp.

Has any v1 owner with either the CS 8.8 or 9" Gforce broke parts?

COLEVETTE
07-06-2012, 07:30 AM
9" here with 112. Nothing broken and seriously doubt anything will. Only issue so far has been with the housing vent. It was puking fluid out on the freeway. Once that was sorted out I will never think about my diff again, aside from fluid changes here and there. The price tag on the G-Force rear is well worth the peace of mind.

I don't know if i can speak for the rest of you, but when i bought my car, I did research and knew that these cars had weak rears. Its no secret by any means. The CS kit was not here, and G-Force had just finished up their solution so i factored that into my budget. Granted i didn't expect to need a new rear as soon as i did.

furbe
07-06-2012, 08:16 AM
For a budget build, buy a 4th gen diff cheap ($300) from an SRX or several other cars (just be sure to match the 3.73 gear ratio), swap out your posi carrier (5 minute job) and never look back. You can do reinforcment like the CS bushings, poly diff block, or a girdle and you're probably OK for a good long while!

-Mark

i don't think this will work. Didn't the 3:73 only come in the V? Also, the input flange on the V is for a CV on the others (cts base, SRX, STS) accepts a rubber donut 3 bolt. Has anyone done this ?

vmapper
07-06-2012, 09:40 AM
9" here with 112. Nothing broken and seriously doubt anything will. Only issue so far has been with the housing vent. It was puking fluid out on the freeway. Once that was sorted out I will never think about my diff again, aside from fluid changes here and there. The price tag on the G-Force rear is well worth the peace of mind.

I don't know if i can speak for the rest of you, but when i bought my car, I did research and knew that these cars had weak rears. Its no secret by any means. The CS kit was not here, and G-Force had just finished up their solution so i factored that into my budget. Granted i didn't expect to need a new rear as soon as i did.

Thanks for the input.
I do notice there is a 2400 dollar difference between the CS and GForce, CS being a nice set of heads less. And the only difference is an addition of Billet hubs w/ GForce?

COLEVETTE
07-06-2012, 05:05 PM
One more piece of info to add- Spend the extra coin and get a nice limited slip i.e. the wavetrac or s-trac. Once i get out of this sand box, my trutrac will be coming out, and ill be potentially switching to 3.50 gears(currently 3.70. Still on the fence about if the slight change will be worth the extra $$

9t8z28
07-06-2012, 10:05 PM
One more piece of info to add- Spend the extra coin and get a nice limited slip i.e. the wavetrac or s-trac. Once i get out of this sand box, my trutrac will be coming out, and ill be potentially switching to 3.50 gears(currently 3.70. Still on the fence about if the slight change will be worth the extra $$

How much power did the 112 push you to? I can imagine 3.50 gears turning your car into a slouch

1BADCTS
07-06-2012, 11:22 PM
i don't think this will work. Didn't the 3:73 only come in the V? Also, the input flange on the V is for a CV on the others (cts base, SRX, STS) accepts a rubber donut 3 bolt. Has anyone done this ?

There was a thread on it a while back. I seem to remember maybe you're right that he had to swap the driveshaft connection flange, but indicated the whole process was really straightforward. But 3.73's are offered on some trims of other models.

COLEVETTE
07-07-2012, 03:04 AM
How much power did the 112 push you to? I can imagine 3.50 gears turning your car into a slouch

Its not that im making crazy power. most likely ~400, its that 1st gear is already really tall and the maggie adds tons of extra grunt down low. I need to calculate this differently because i just ordered some 19" ccw's but the change should be good for a couple hundred rpm drop at 60 in 6th. Unless im on a hill, I always start in 2nd.

9t8z28
07-08-2012, 08:01 PM
Its not that im making crazy power. most likely ~400, its that 1st gear is already really tall and the maggie adds tons of extra grunt down low. I need to calculate this differently because i just ordered some 19" ccw's but the change should be good for a couple hundred rpm drop at 60 in 6th. Unless im on a hill, I always start in 2nd.

I'm sorry, but 3.50 gears is a bigger step towards the wrong direction, unless you are only concerned about highway mileage.

COLEVETTE
07-09-2012, 06:54 AM
I'm sorry, but 3.50 gears is a bigger step towards the wrong direction, unless you are only concerned about highway mileage.


How do you figure?

TheLostDriver
07-09-2012, 07:52 AM
Didn't make much sense to me? You say first gear is already really tall but you want to run a 3.50 gear instead of a 3.70?

COLEVETTE
07-09-2012, 09:17 AM
I should have said "steep" i guess

BudRacing
07-09-2012, 12:16 PM
IMO, first gear is too low for daily use. Is it great for launching? Sure, but our rears are the limiting factor anyway. Going with a slightly taller gear probably won't make us any slower off the line since we have to baby it anyway. It will definitely benefit us in making 1st gear more user friendly around town and getting us some slightly better fuel mileage when cruising at highway speeds. If I had the option of going from 3.73 to 3.42 on the table, I'd probably go for it. I'm not much of a drag racer anyway... and especially not in this car.

COLEVETTE
07-09-2012, 02:14 PM
Agreed. Best part about my G-force 9" is that i can have multiple setups and its as easy as pulling the axles and center section out and slapping in a new/different one.

Going from a 3.70 rear gear to a 3.50 is not a huge jump. It is in fact such a minor one that it may not be worth the money or trouble. As BudRacing said, making 1st more usable and lower highway rpm's are something these cars can benefit from. The fact that i have a PD blower only backs that logic up due to the instant down low torque it produces. Even with a decent tire in the rear (275 Nitto NT-555r), I can lite them up at any time in 1st or 2nd gear. The same is true for for basic bolt-on cars.