View Full Version : fastest way to 300 whp


edrex
06-22-2012, 05:51 PM
i jest got my new toy a 91 350ss turck.i know some say that gm did not make a 350ss and jest a 454ss but i have the title and it has 350ss on it so lets not start all that bs lol. my plan is to use it for my dd /tow my firebird to the track so no spray or boost

973800CamaroRS
06-24-2012, 08:33 AM
TBI Correct ?

If you don't need emissions stuff anymore I would do away with all that, I would run headers and dual exhaust.

May need to swap intake for say an edelbrock performer/performer rpm. May port your heads and do a cam swap.

If you fell up to it you can swap out the tbi for just a carb it makes more sense is simpler and allows more modification. (If you don't need emissions)

Edelbrock has top end kits which are great that's what I have on my second gen camaro. The kit was specked out at 400hp and I made 423 hp on the dyno !

Just some suggestions. Good luck

warriorcustoms
06-24-2012, 12:49 PM
350 sbc 300rwhp Id get a set of aluminium Vortec style heads with 2.00int 1.55exh valves to start & if you need to keep emissions compliant Upgrade your injection system to a miniram or any of the systems out there. Dont get to silly with a stall if your pullin stuff with it. A cam just a hair bigger than a LT4 hot cam will getcha there. IF you dont want a bigger cam than that the LT4 hot cam will getcha pretty close Rebuild the motor with 10.8 to 1 compression Or you can get a Vortec top end kit at Jegs with Iron heads pretty cheap

Bar50
06-24-2012, 07:50 PM
Add a small nitrous unit in a few hours on a weekend. Use it when you 'need' it is the fastest way to 300.

If it has the TBI motor, those were "high swirl' heads...some poor GM plan gone awry. You can get some vortec heads and intake, but, they flow so much more air, you have to re-tune the TBI or it WILL BURN VALVES because it would be so lean. Wanna' ask me how I know....?

Bilster
06-25-2012, 12:36 PM
300 is not that tough.
This would get you pretty close.
http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/148_0307_late_model_tbi_trucks_power_upgrade/index.html

87silverbullet
06-25-2012, 03:09 PM
Add a small nitrous unit in a few hours on a weekend. Use it when you 'need' it is the fastest way to 300.

If it has the TBI motor, those were "high swirl' heads...some poor GM plan gone awry. You can get some vortec heads and intake, but, they flow so much more air, you have to re-tune the TBI or it WILL BURN VALVES because it would be so lean. Wanna' ask me how I know....?

He stated no nitrous.

You are right about the heads though. 4500rpms and they are done flowing.

It will be time consuming and a little on the expensive side to try to get the TBI to 300hp at the crank let alone get 300 at the wheels. I am an EFI proponent, but a carb with some better heads and a cam will get you the 300 whp you are looking for. To got to a different EFI setup will be costly no matter what it is. The most cost effective one I did was throw a 350 TPI motor in a truck like yours with a few bolt ons and with all that low end grunt it became the best truck towing motor that never made it into a truck.

Here is an article of a 305 that was done up and made 257 rwhp but alot had to be done.

http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/148_0409_chevrolet_305_ci_engine_build_ii/viewall.html

RabidStreetRacer
06-25-2012, 03:23 PM
The biggest question is What is your budget? Some factory Vortec heads along with a good cam and headers will get you close.

02anti_vnm
06-25-2012, 03:31 PM
Fastest way to 300 horsepower would be drive the fastest thing you own to the nearest junkyard, pick up a 5.3l, and put it in there. Quickest, cheapest, most reliable thing you can do IMO

RabidStreetRacer
06-25-2012, 03:45 PM
Fastest way to 300 horsepower would be drive the fastest thing you own to the nearest junkyard, pick up a 5.3l, and put it in there. Quickest, cheapest, most reliable thing you can do IMO

Exactly what I did. You will get 400 hp in a LS faster than you will get 300hp in a GEN I engine. Plus a good 18mpg in fuel.

edrex
06-25-2012, 09:23 PM
thanks for the help i think im going to do a nice carb heads cam set up

ZONES89RS
06-25-2012, 11:14 PM
Meet my 94 GMC:

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t74/ZONES89RS/7f517c8a.jpg

Engine,2009 4.8 400$, ignition controller from MSD with harness, 330$, intake for carb conversion, 270$, carb used off Ebay, 80$, swap headers from schoenfeld, 269$ shipped, conversion plates off Ebay 60$ shipped, bypass style regulator so i could use the factory fuel pump, 60$.
Total for a engine that started with 305 HP stock: Just under 1500$.

With intake and headers, i am sure it has added 30-50 HP, i was intending to do a 5.3, but ended up not being one. Didnt car, bear the snot out of it daily to 6000 RPM and screams:

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t74/ZONES89RS/e53ce205.jpg

And the stock Tach with a new motor:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uvisFiib1Y&list=UUqE7et4xdmge1ql0WOXX1eg&index=7&feature=plcp

So, build a better engine, or get a junkyard 5.3 that will make more and be more dependable.

badazz81z28
06-26-2012, 08:42 AM
The biggest question is What is your budget? Some factory Vortec heads along with a good cam and headers will get you close.

This is it right here. I have bascially a rebuilt stock 350 with ported Vortecs/Air Gap intake/Long tubes/Hyd roller cam

Engined Dynoed at 425hp/440ft lbs

The Vortecs are the best bang for the buck!

badazz81z28
06-26-2012, 08:47 AM
Exactly what I did. You will get 400 hp in a LS faster than you will get 300hp in a GEN II engine. Plus a good 18mpg in fuel.

Ehhh....I wouldnt say that.

Small Block parts are CHEAP! Compared to an LS.

BTW...Its the overdrive transmission that gives you the mileage, not so much the engine.

Nick V.
06-26-2012, 08:55 AM
Fastest way to 300 horsepower would be drive the fastest thing you own to the nearest junkyard, pick up a 5.3l, and put it in there. Quickest, cheapest, most reliable thing you can do IMO

/\ this.

course it really depends on how much you wanna spend.

...i forgot the rest of what i was gonna say after looking at 02anti_vnm's

avatar.

RabidStreetRacer
06-26-2012, 09:39 AM
Ehhh....I wouldnt say that.

Small Block parts are CHEAP! Compared to an LS.

BTW...Its the overdrive transmission that gives you the mileage, not so much the engine.

I picked up my running 5.3 for $650 with everything, Stock it has 295 HP. Where can you get a GEN I engine for that price with that power.
GEN III engines are way more efficient than GEN II which help them use less fuel. My 1994 Silverado has a 4L60E with a 5.7 TBI. I guarantee you when I put my 400+hp 5.3 in, i will get much better MPG than the 13 I am getting now.

Bilster
06-26-2012, 10:28 AM
thanks for the help i think im going to do a nice carb heads cam set up

As mentioned, budget is a key element. Ditching the TBI and the heads, for carb and at least Vortec heads would be great for power but you'll never get the gas mileage. Have you considered going TPI?

Bilster
06-26-2012, 10:48 AM
Ehhh....I wouldnt say that.

Small Block parts are CHEAP! Compared to an LS.

BTW...Its the overdrive transmission that gives you the mileage, not so much the engine.

Oh...it's more than the transmission. That LS PCM or computer is a very powerful engine management system. It's been adapted to Gen I motors with awesome result. http://www.eficonnection.com/eficonnection/24x.aspx

I tell ya....I used to be a hard core Gen I guy. I built Gen I motors that slap SLP and SS Camaros so hard it wasn't funny. But they would idle all day long and pull such generous gas mileage numbers for the performance, that I took notice quick. I'm a convert now because you can pick up Gen III motors so cheap now and parts are actually as cheap if not cheaper than Gen I. I can pick up a set of factory ported heads from Texas Speed that will out-flow a set of Gen I AFR Eliminator 195cc heads for the same price. Factor in the FAR better quality of castings in the factory blocks and better main cap architecture and I have to tell you....you're beating your head against the wall trying to match the Gen III and Gen IV stuff.

RabidStreetRacer
06-26-2012, 10:58 AM
If you go carb make sure you get a good fuel pressure regulator with a return port. Here is the one I got:
http://holley.com/12-841.asp

cambirdracing
06-26-2012, 02:11 PM
BTW...Its the overdrive transmission that gives you the mileage, not so much the engine.


Eeeeehhhh, I wouldn't say that either. I had a 77 Formula Firebird with a 455 that got over 20 on the highway. Had a TH350 NON o/d tranny.

ZONES89RS
06-26-2012, 05:09 PM
The old vortec heads were the best you could get from GM for a sbc before they killed the gen I. But, to find a set of those heads used for 200 would be a good deal, then a valve job and new seals just to freshen them up will put you at 400$ plus, that is what the whole 5.3 will run you at the junkyard. Still would be a lesser flowing head. A vortec intake and a ignition that is worth a crap is another 400$ give or take new. The ignition and intake for the Ls new will be 600$ and it is complete. 1000 for 350 hp, no cam. The 800$ for the vortec "start" of a build leaves you without a short block, which is a while different ball game and allot of money to freshen or build.

ZONES89RS
06-26-2012, 05:10 PM
So the GEN III is the new budget king. You don't need to find heads,freshen a short block, and all the other BS.

RabidStreetRacer
06-27-2012, 07:37 AM
I was going to go 383 with the vortec heads, air gap intake and carb for my 5.7 TBI 1994 silverado. After I priced it all out, the 5.3 was cheaper, makes way more HP, gets better fuel milage and will last longer. These engines are built so well and can so much power. I was worried that if I did a GEN I 383, I would want more power after a year. So after months of debating, I jumped head first on the LS. If you look at the forums like LS1trucks.com and performancetrucks.net you'll see the light.

ZONES89RS
06-27-2012, 05:48 PM
I don't like pushing the LS like a chump, but the hard headed guys that are in denial just need the truth. Better engine. Period. And yes, CHEAPER.

edrex
06-27-2012, 09:11 PM
as long as i get 15 mpg im happy lol i keep the lsx to for my firebird lol so no 5.3 for me im looking to spend my be 1000 to get me to 300hp

SuperSport01
06-28-2012, 06:14 AM
I would either do heads/cam/headers/intake/carb to your motor. Or I would do a carbed 5.3 swap.

badazz81z28
06-28-2012, 04:01 PM
Oh...it's more than the transmission. That LS PCM or computer is a very powerful engine management system. It's been adapted to Gen I motors with awesome result. http://www.eficonnection.com/eficonnection/24x.aspx

I tell ya....I used to be a hard core Gen I guy. I built Gen I motors that slap SLP and SS Camaros so hard it wasn't funny. But they would idle all day long and pull such generous gas mileage numbers for the performance, that I took notice quick. I'm a convert now because you can pick up Gen III motors so cheap now and parts are actually as cheap if not cheaper than Gen I. I can pick up a set of factory ported heads from Texas Speed that will out-flow a set of Gen I AFR Eliminator 195cc heads for the same price. Factor in the FAR better quality of castings in the factory blocks and better main cap architecture and I have to tell you....you're beating your head against the wall trying to match the Gen III and Gen IV stuff.



I hear ya all. I'm going LS too, thats how I know first hand its not cheap! I know some of you are really good at finding deals! But lets be a little more practical. We are not talking about MAX power for the foundation or the dollar. Nor comparing the best LS heads Vs the best Gen I heads. I know the LS does have more potential with its stock platform, but SBC stuff is cheap compare anything (Cam, oil pan, oil pump, ignition etc) especially for the OPs sought HP goal. Also keep in mind, going SBC to LS is alot more labor intensive and $$$ if you plan to go EFI. Grab your budget 50K-75K mile 350 Gen I, slap some vortecs on it and a cam and you will have 400hp. You can do this for $1500 or Less depending if you go used parts or new.

Please stop comparing used LS engine to NEW SBC stuff...its not a good arguement.

ZONES89RS
06-28-2012, 06:59 PM
I am talking used for used. And your point is clearly mistaken if you are talking dollar for dollar. Efi, perhaps, but the car I am doing now with a 5.3 swap is going pretty well on the budget. As for true budget, the LS has the carb wolf cornered. It is cheap and cost effective. No distributor needed. The old SBC is a remnant. Plain and simple.

Been there and done it, I was a SBC guy till I went to my first 6.0 swap.

3 years of 7200 RPM running 7.1-7.0 in the 1/8th with a stock cammed long block, and a manual Trans all motor on 87, that's right kids, 87 octane.

The sbc takes too much money to catch up. Motor, intake and cam swap was 1500$ to make 500ish HP, gotta love it and if you cannot see that it is better all around unless you are incapable of doing the work ourself, then you are blind.

Don't mean to upset feelings but some just need to let go of the old worn and played out 1955 inferior technology.

badazz81z28
06-28-2012, 11:21 PM
I am talking used for used. And your point is clearly mistaken if you are talking dollar for dollar. Efi, perhaps, but the car I am doing now with a 5.3 swap is going pretty well on the budget. As for true budget, the LS has the carb wolf cornered. It is cheap and cost effective. No distributor needed. The old SBC is a remnant. Plain and simple.

Been there and done it, I was a SBC guy till I went to my first 6.0 swap.

3 years of 7200 RPM running 7.1-7.0 in the 1/8th with a stock cammed long block, and a manual Trans all motor on 87, that's right kids, 87 octane.

The sbc takes too much money to catch up. Motor, intake and cam swap was 1500$ to make 500ish HP, gotta love it and if you cannot see that it is better all around unless you are incapable of doing the work ourself, then you are blind.

Don't mean to upset feelings but some just need to let go of the old worn and played out 1955 inferior technology.

BS,

Your not getting 500hp out of a 5.3 with just a cam. I have over $4K in my LS, and I dont even have the fuel tank or the tune cost factored in and I close to 500hp. The only stock engine that will wake up like that cam only is the LS3 or the LY6

I know the 5.3s can be had for around average $750. But
Add a cam and lifter $525
Pushrods $ 120
Buy an F-body pan + pick-up + Tray $300
Wire harness mod $200
Tank mods + pump + lines $750
Getting headers? + $300

Your going to be in it $3,000+ and didnt even get heads, new chain/pump etc...

Its not "cheaper" when you have a 350 already sitting in the car. The cheapest/quikest way to 300 RWHP is not an LS swap.

ZONES89RS
06-29-2012, 06:14 AM
Who said 5.3 in that post? Not me, my 6.0 was 700$, pushrods 100, cam 200, springs 160, intake 270, Pan was 150. With a little searching and patience, it is done. Car yanks the tires and runs low 11s with a 6 speed. As much as I have done the swaps, it is cheaper. I have been there and done it again and again, over and over. Carbed is cheap and effective. I will get a total for the efi swap I am doing now with a 5.3, but the carb 5.3 in my TA was really cheap.

Bilster
06-29-2012, 11:42 AM
I hear ya all. I'm going LS too, thats how I know first hand its not cheap! I know some of you are really good at finding deals! But lets be a little more practical. We are not talking about MAX power for the foundation or the dollar. Nor comparing the best LS heads Vs the best Gen I heads. I know the LS does have more potential with its stock platform, but SBC stuff is cheap compare anything (Cam, oil pan, oil pump, ignition etc) especially for the OPs sought HP goal. Also keep in mind, going SBC to LS is alot more labor intensive and $$$ if you plan to go EFI. Grab your budget 50K-75K mile 350 Gen I, slap some vortecs on it and a cam and you will have 400hp. You can do this for $1500 or Less depending if you go used parts or new.

Please stop comparing used LS engine to NEW SBC stuff...its not a good arguement.

Agreed...that if you were starting with nothing, the LS would be the way to go. If a guy already has an SBC and a person doesn't want the hassle of a change over, he should stick with SBC. Not to mention the plain old fact that a person may not want to change over to LS for what ever reason. You just have to respect that. I'm still building SBCs for fairly cheap because I've squarreled away SBC parts for years. I'll just keep building them until there's nothing left.

badazz81z28
06-29-2012, 11:49 AM
Who said 5.3 in that post? Not me, my 6.0 was 700$, pushrods 100, cam 200, springs 160, intake 270, Pan was 150. With a little searching and patience, it is done. Car yanks the tires and runs low 11s with a 6 speed. As much as I have done the swaps, it is cheaper. I have been there and done it again and again, over and over. Carbed is cheap and effective. I will get a total for the efi swap I am doing now with a 5.3, but the carb 5.3 in my TA was really cheap.

You are so right! If you are patient and search around, deals can be had!

If you don't mind used stuff, its out there for a good price for sure!

Thats why I giggle when people post in the GEN III section about "can 500hp be had for $2,000"

The answer people say is hell no, but really...yes you can if you are a good shopper.

Theres a guy I read a build on that bought an LS1/T56 combo for nothing, he wouldnt say how much, but he sold the T56 and basically the LS was free :devil:

93Z2871805
06-29-2012, 02:22 PM
FWIW, I've been a die-hard BBC guy for years (wasn't too big on SBCs, but I've had a 406 in a third gen Camaro that was pretty nasty and a 383 LT1), but in the past couple years, the LS engines have outperformed the older stuff in just about every category. I'm still into BBCs, I just don't see them being used in most applications, and the good-old reliable SBC is all but antiquated now. If you need 600hp or less NA on pump gas and not break the bank - go LS. If you want a cheap carbed V8 that can make ~400hp and get respectable mileage - go LS. If you have a Vortec powered vehicle and want to make ~400hp - keep the Vortec. If you want to hit 1000 hp NA on pump gas - only a BBC can do it. If you need to make 2000, 3000, 4000+ hp - don't even try looking into anything other than a BBC (unless you want a challenge). There are applications where all 3 fit, in the OPs case, he could slap a set of Vortec heads, carbed intake setup, and a Hot Cam on what he's got now and exceed his goal without ever lifting the shortblock or trans out of the truck.

ZONES89RS
06-29-2012, 04:08 PM
As for the motor being in the vehicle, and not converting since you already have it, i did, sold the vortec 355 for 1000$ and got a 30K mile 5.3 with 243 heads stock for 400$, sold the heads for 400$, still had the 1000$ from the 355 vortec to spend on a trans, intake, ignition and headers, cam swap, ended up putting 500$ out of my own pocket for a 7200 RPM screaming 5.3.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrMMhDP1EJY&feature=g-user-u

No ARP bolts in the rods and all that. Just beat the snot out of it.

badazz81z28
06-29-2012, 08:07 PM
As for the motor being in the vehicle, and not converting since you already have it, i did, sold the vortec 355 for 1000$ and got a 30K mile 5.3 with 243 heads stock for 400$, sold the heads for 400$, still had the 1000$ from the 355 vortec to spend on a trans, intake, ignition and headers, cam swap, ended up putting 500$ out of my own pocket for a 7200 RPM screaming 5.3.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrMMhDP1EJY&feature=g-user-u

No ARP bolts in the rods and all that. Just beat the snot out of it.

You must have some good hook-ups!

$400 for a 243 headed 30K mile engine?? Thats worth at least $1500. $500-$800 usually gets you 100,000+ miles engine

$1500 got you a:

LS carb intake/Ignition ($800)
Headers ($400)
Cam ($400)
Lifters ($120)
Springs ($120)
Pushrods ($120)
Motor mount adapters ($30-$50)
Thats $3,000 worth of stuff EASY!

edrex
06-29-2012, 10:00 PM
will lt1 heads work on my tbi 350 ?

ZONES89RS
06-30-2012, 06:25 AM
No.

You must have some good hook-ups!

$400 for a 243 headed 30K mile engine?? Thats worth at least $1500. $500-$800 usually gets you 100,000+ miles engine

$1500 got you a:

LS carb intake/Ignition ($800)
Headers ($400)
Cam ($400)
Lifters ($120)
Springs ($120)
Pushrods ($120)
Motor mount adapters ($30-$50)
Thats $3,000 worth of stuff EASY!

I hustle parts like I hustle a race. Your parts list price sucks.

Intake is 270
Ignition is 310-330 depending on gen III or IV
Headers on the TA were 86$ new,,shortys
User cam 200
Stock lifters all day baby;)
Got the 918 springs off a set of truck heads from here for 100$, sold the heads for 50$
PRs 110
Adapters were 50

Bangin 7200 never was so cheap, lol

badazz81z28
06-30-2012, 11:13 AM
No.



I hustle parts like I hustle a race. Your parts list price sucks.

Intake is 270
Ignition is 310-330 depending on gen III or IV
Headers on the TA were 86$ new,,shortys
User cam 200
Stock lifters all day baby;)
Got the 918 springs off a set of truck heads from here for 100$, sold the heads for 50$
PRs 110
Adapters were 50

Bangin 7200 never was so cheap, lol

Agree, but your prices is not realistic...This reminds me the time when Horsepower TV did an LQ4 build. They got the engine from a recycler for like $800, claiming how cheap it was. I called the same place, they wouldnt give me that deal.

Deals can be had especailly if you know the right people and paitent

ZONES89RS
06-30-2012, 03:33 PM
My prices are what I paid, you can get the intake and ignition off eBay right now for what I listed. The headers over populated eBay for 86$ shipped, you could cut the collectors straight off for 3 inch like I did, then like magic, the 4 or so eBay dealers that carries those cheap headers stopped. Don't know why. But they were decent. Sucks they stopped but they do pop up from individuals that got and never used them.

My prices are exactly what I spent on new an used parts. I don't "know@ anyone, I just hustle and wheel and deal. If you cannot do that then it must not be a budget concern.

But I did buy the ignition here for 250 shipped, then it was the wrong one because it was a 6010, got my gen IV and a member here traded me the 6010 for a 6012.

It is not knowing anyone for me as much as it is havin patience. And even if it did cost a bit more to swap to the newer engines, IT IS WORTH EVERY DOLLAR!

NemeSS
06-30-2012, 05:26 PM
You are so right! If you are patient and search around, deals can be had!

If you don't mind used stuff, its out there for a good price for sure!

Thats why I giggle when people post in the GEN III section about "can 500hp be had for $2,000"

The answer people say is hell no, but really...yes you can if you are a good shopper.

Theres a guy I read a build on that bought an LS1/T56 combo for nothing, he wouldnt say how much, but he sold the T56 and basically the LS was free :devil:

LOL! The fool! I woulda kept the t56 and sold the.ls1:devil:
U dont even wanna know what ive gotten ls motors for:devil:
Yes, the ls is cheaper in many ways over a sbc. Anyone who thinks otherwise is not researching thoroughly. Plain and simple.
An example
It will take a built forged sbc with aftermarket aluminum heads,cam,intake, and thats assuming u have a roller sbc block to build from.and a aftermarket efi management system, with a strong expensive ignition system
To what a stock longblock with stock heads and plastic intake. 5.3 or 6.0 can take with gm ls9 headgaskets, stock coils,stock pcm and harness.
I for one will take a stock 4.8 over a 350 sbc any day.
Its what im preparing for my build. And im confident it will tolerate up to 800hp.
On stock guts,cam,oe stock heads,ls9 gaskets. On a 7000rpm shift.
I have about 1000$ in this longblock if that, and thats with headstuds.
09 4.8 with less than 200 miles shortblock

NO rebuild or stock sbc will ever compete with that at equivalent level or price.

badazz81z28
06-30-2012, 05:41 PM
What makes you think the cast crank and PM rods in a SBC is any weaker than the cast/PM in the LS?

I have to admit, when I tore down my LS engine, things I noticed..

6 bolt main bolts on the LS, BUT they are tiny bolts!
Tiny 8mm rocker bolts on the LS vs 3/8" studs on the SBC
Cast pistons are cast pistons
PM rods are PM rods
cast crank is a cast crank
No arguement the LS makes more power, but I find it hard to believe the parts are "stronger". But I guess thats another thread

I know people love what they love and will defend it ;)

NemeSS
06-30-2012, 05:55 PM
You must have some good hook-ups!

$400 for a 243 headed 30K mile engine?? Thats worth at least $1500. $500-$800 usually gets you 100,000+ miles engine
sorry, but that is correct. these prices are possible. Its is possible to buy a sub 1000$ gen4 motor. Correct about the gen3 100k mile engines however. But both are facts.
I can list all the ls motors ive bought and you would not believe me. I really dont care, i gain nothing by lying about that. I have a longblock that im less than a 1000$ amd i plan on 800hp. one of my best deals to date is a 300$ 6.0 ly6 with intake,tb,coilpacks. The folks at jy are catching on NOW. But ive been buying ls motors since 03. Not really a hook up where i get my motors from, but i do get first pick texts many times guy i buy from.
$1500 got you a:

LS carb intake/Ignition ($800)
Headers ($400)
Cam ($400)
Lifters ($120)
Springs ($120)
Pushrods ($120)
Motor mount adapters ($30-$50)
Thats $3,000 worth of stuff EASY!
Alot of these prices for parts are realistic for new parts.
But the value of the ls is its ability to use used parts like cams and heads and not care.
Sometimes gotta buy new. But can get away with alot of used stuff sometimes.

badazz81z28
06-30-2012, 06:03 PM
These are new price estimates. Some things I wouldnt mind used either.

Some of the things like the CAM, pushrods, carb intake, ignitions I would use too. The cams I found on here were not much cheaper than new, so I went new. Seems to be the case here for stuff I'm looking for (IE used FAST 92 intake).

Some things like lifters, headers I would avoid

Seems the EFI portion is what is costing me the most money. For what I have paid for the TB, injectors, and FI tank would have bought a carb set-up 5X over.

NemeSS
06-30-2012, 06:17 PM
What makes you think the cast crank and PM rods in a SBC is any weaker than the cast/PM in the LS?

I have to admit, when I tore down my LS engine, things I noticed..

6 bolt main bolts on the LS, BUT they are tiny bolts!
Tiny 8mm rocker bolts on the LS vs 3/8" studs on the SBC
Cast pistons are cast pistons
PM rods are PM rods
cast crank is a cast crank
No arguement the LS makes more power, but I find it hard to believe the parts are "stronger". But I guess thats another thread

I know people love what they love and will defend it ;)

this is a turbo build what i mentioned. Not naturally aspirated. Will the ls hold and make more hp,psi and rpm on stock heads and internals?
I dont think it, i know it :usa:

badazz81z28
06-30-2012, 06:46 PM
this is a turbo build what i mentioned. Not naturally aspirated. Will the ls hold and make more hp,psi and rpm on stock heads and internals?
I dont think it, i know it :usa:

I'm sure the SBC could handle it too. No question who has better heads for the $$. But the SBC is not a weak bottom end.

ZONES89RS
06-30-2012, 08:26 PM
It is not the strength in question, it is junkyard pull vs junkyard pull. You don't need anything for a LS, a 5.7 needs things that add up.

A LS with a cam, 7000 rpm with pr and springs.
That is also stock heads and makes rediculous power band.

SBC needs all kinds of support.

Making the LS the budget king. That is all I'm saying. Throw enough money at anything and it will produce. LS just benefits more from aftermarket parts, doesn't need them.

ZONES89RS
06-30-2012, 08:33 PM
What makes you think the cast crank and PM rods in a SBC is any weaker than the cast/PM in the LS?

I have to admit, when I tore down my LS engine, things I noticed..

6 bolt main bolts on the LS, BUT they are tiny bolts!
Tiny 8mm rocker bolts on the LS vs 3/8" studs on the SBC
Cast pistons are cast pistons
PM rods are PM rods
cast crank is a cast crank
No arguement the LS makes more power, but I find it hard to believe the parts are "stronger". But I guess thats another thread

I know people love what they love and will defend it ;)

For starters, how many SBC have powdered rods? Exactly, we are taking any random SB, not the vortec alone.
The small tiny bolts are also surrounded by deep skirting. Another advantage. As well as ALL of them are 6 bolt, you do not need to hunt a 4 bolt that some A hole is asking more for than a 2 bolt,.
8mm rocker bolts are because of engineering, they do not need a huge rocker stud because of heavy valve train. Let's not forget that you need to machine for screw in studs that won't rip out web you put real springs to hold that thing together on a small block.
Cast is cast, never had issues with old SBC pistons or cranks.
Stock for stock, can you spin 7200 with just a cam, springs and pushrods? No, no, no. The LS is stronger factory for factory, it is with the territory. One was designed in 1955 the other in 1997, then there is the gen IV that has even better rods and reluctor.

RabidStreetRacer
06-30-2012, 09:52 PM
End of discussion here: hotRod did a test on a 5.3 that ended up being a 4.8 junkyard engine. Put better springs, a Fast intake and i believe twin 76mm turbos. The engine had over 50 dyno pulls that made over 1000hp. They maxed out at about 1200hp and thats because the ignition would not keep up. Show me a stock bottom GEN I that can do that. The 4.8 never blew!

Edit: Found the link
http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/hrdp_1109_stock_gm_ls_engine_big_bang_theory/

ZONES89RS
07-01-2012, 06:15 AM
That is not the argument, it is the price, cost effective stock parts, budget builds.

Fact is a SBC holds boost easier because of 5 bolt per slug vs 4 on a gen III. Gen IV has 6 on some. But with studs and blah blah, the gen III does fine.