Road Racing - Chevelle with an automatic on the road course? Why not

Just had the time of my life on a closed course and wanted to share. I really wish there were more places and less expense so more people could see how insanely fun the turns can be.

While I love drag racing and the car has gone high 11s, I have always liked back roads and spirited drives and refused to put a full drag suspension on the car. Instead I set it up to be flat in the turns and ride firm like a newer sports car.

I finally got a chance to get on some closed pavement and push the car harder in a safer environment. Not a lot of run off so I was still being conservative but it was still easily the most fun I've had in 10 years of owning the car.

It's mostly stock suspension which shocks a lot of people. Factory SS suspension option including boxed lower rear control arms, larger sway bars, and front disc brakes.

I added 750# circle track front springs with height adjusters, AFCO circle track front shocks, Hawks HPS front pads. In the rear I added adjustable upper control arms, KYB Gas-a-just shocks, ls1 rear discs (junk pads), Hotchkiss springs, and bolt on traction bars. The traction bars increase oversteer but also virtually eliminate body roll...I will lose them and get stiffer springs/bars once I move to a better wheel setup which tucks enough to clear everything and can lower the rear more.

It was extremely hot so I was limiting it to 1 lap at a time for safety, but the brakes were holding up surprisingly well. I was honestly more worried about overheating the transmission than the brakes. The car was too loose on the rock hard aging street tires out back so I pumped 32# into my Mickey Thompson drag radials for shits and giggles and was amazed how well they worked. They stuck very well but didn't show signs of rolling the sidewall.

Pics and video here (more to come when I get the material from other friends' cameras):

http://ls1tech.com/forums/multimedia-exchange/1559504-play-day-private-closed-course-pics-videos.html

http://youtu.be/zI6fOVCdeYQ

It looks like the corner arn't getting hit as hard as the car can do. or am i wrong

Looks like a load of fun. Where is that and how can I get in on it.

It looks like the corner arn't getting hit as hard as the car can do. or am i wrong

You are absolutely correct. This run was on some hard as a rock street tires and the rear was very upset about it. I put some MT drag radials on with 32# in them and dropped 3 seconds from the added confidence.

I am always weary of the brakes on the car but was surprised how the Hawks HPS did since even on the back straight I had full braking force, I am used to driving the car with cheap pads that overheat and fade under hard driving. Once I realized this I feel I could easily have dropped more time powering harder in then braking instead of coasting in engine braking then braking.

I was going to do another lap but we ran out of daylight.

Safety first, and I didn't want to wreck my car "showing off" or "chasing a number". You can also tell I am not the best driver.

You are absolutely correct. This run was on some hard as a rock street tires and the rear was very upset about it. I put some MT drag radials on with 32# in them and dropped 3 seconds from the added confidence.

Be careful of using Drag tires on a street course because since the tires are made to have soft side wall to squat. and the tire pressures are different Drag tires 9-16 psi Track tires 20-30 psi. When I lower the pressure on my Nitto NT01's it feels like the car has a lot of slop, so my pressure is at 26 psi.

If you have any questions, please ask

That looks like it was a blast, I would love to do something like that with my car.

That does look like a blast!

Be careful of using Drag tires on a street course because since the tires are made to have soft side wall to squat. and the tire pressures are different Drag tires 9-16 psi Track tires 20-30 psi. When I lower the pressure on my Nitto NT01's it feels like the car has a lot of slop, so my pressure is at 26 psi.

If you have any questions, please ask

Correct, these aren't that soft on the side though. I run them at 16-18# at the strip and 22-25# on the street. The extra air kept them from rolling onto the sidewall. But again, I was only pushing the car so hard both for the reason of tires and the lack of run off room.

On a set of real track tires and on a course with appropriate run off I could drive a lot harder safely.

:chug:

Great post. Your Chevelle is probably more track worthy than you think. Have fun out there!

I've always enjoyed spirited blasts on backroads. Biggest problems the car has ever had are brake fade and traction.

Put some Super Blue brake fluid in, installed Fbody rear discs (factory drum rears before), and the Hawks HPS pads on front (I got them for $20 shipped and wanted to try them before dropping $$ on rear pads too) and my brake fade issue is much less apparent.

15" street rubber options are few and all junk, just can't afford to go bigger yet but once I do I can upgrade the front brakes to c5/c6 stuff and put real rubber on the car.

upgrade the front brakes to c5/c6 stuff and put real rubber on the car.

Is this a pretty simple upgrade?

From what I've seen it should be. You use factory Chevelle drum brake spindles (I still have mine from before I put the SS suspension on the car) and buy/make brackets to hold the calipers.

The rears were cake, just unbolted the drum assembly from the axle tube and bolted the new stuff on. Need a spacer to center the rotor in the caliper and then put it all back together. Just had to get some rubber lines which had ends on the axle side for the old stuff and newer style banjos on the caliper side...I think they are 3rd gen camaro lines.

Here you go guys, 65 Skylark and chevelle both have the short spindles. Get some Z06 brakes for them lol - http://www.kore3.com/proddetail.php?prod=10103-03

You will need 18" wheels though so maybe just do the C5/C6 brake package and a 17" wheel.

Went back out yesterday and cut another second off my lap. Videos to follow, we got a low shot from the front bumper video game style and some fly bys from a camera on a cone.

Hey that looks awesome over there.
Interesting to see your becoming more road race inclined lol.
You get way more of an adrenalin rush than Drag racing...but those trees look a huge concern.
If you can afford, get another set of wheels & fit with a set of soft compound semi slicks.

If I continue to get to use the facility and/or more autox it would be a possibility.

15" street rubber options are few and all junk, just can't afford to go bigger yet but once I do I can upgrade the front brakes to c5/c6 stuff and put real rubber on the car.

I've been doing a lot of research on this. It seems like the tire sizes that fit most 70s muscle cars without requiring serious suspension mods AND give a lot of race options are 275/17/40 or 275/18/35. Been running GTA 16x8s with 245/16/50 Firehawk Wide Ovals this year. Nice, but limiting.

Nice vid, btw. Me want car!

Here's another picture that just turned up of that same run, you can see the GoPro on the window.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v477/thunderstruck507/Chevelle/trackday1.jpg

Looked like a blast! I have never been one who cared much about 1/4 mile times, but love the twisties! Oh, by the way, im doing it in an auto as well, but I have a T56 in the garage waiting to go in, I just need to find the time.

I had a bbc in a 67 camaro with stock drums all the way around and thought I'd give the rr a try. $20,000 later including wilwood discs, 700hp 468, th400 needing 2 coolers and a hosts of suspension upgrades I could blow off the Z's down the straights and hang with them in the twisties. It is addictive!!!

I would rather use an auto at the rr then a stick at the drags. I currently have an 02 camaro with an M6 and for the few times at the 1/4 mile...I don't even bother any more. Definitly works better for the road course though! Have fun!

How do you guys like running the road courses with an auto versus a manual?

I only ask because I'm at that point in my Mustang build where I need to decide on a transmission and I'm stuck between the T56 or a maybe a 700R4. I'd prefer an auto with an overdrive so I can drive to the tracks, as long I'm not racing and wishing I had a manual.

How do you guys like running the road courses with an auto versus a manual?

I'd prefer an auto with an overdrive 'so I can drive to the tracks', as long I'm not racing and wishing I had a manual.

WHY! Won't a manual car drive there? :confused:

WHY! Won't a manual car drive there? :confused:

Let me rephrase. I would prefer the auto over a manual transmission, but it would have to have an overdrive. I don't want to use an automatic if it gives up so much at the road courses that i wont enjoy it and I kick myself for not going with a manual in the first place.

If you are just going to be an occasional road racer, drive a bunch on the street and use it for drag racing on occasion, you might be better served with an auto, but be prepared to put a good trans cooler on it.

If like a lot of guys you end up getting bit by the rr bug, you will be much better served with a manual trans.

Depends what you want from the car. I would love a manual but it's expensive and requires a good bit of chopping to make it fit and in the end my 1/4 times would suffer.

I'm happy with the compromise I have with the auto but given the chance to swap probably would.

Depends what you want from the car. I would love a manual but it's expensive and requires a good bit of chopping to make it fit and in the end my 1/4 times would suffer.

I'm happy with the compromise I have with the auto but given the chance to swap probably would.

...so start with a car that's not very collectable, and start chopping :-)

My car isn't worth enough I am worried about it. Just had the 4l60e included with the engine when I bought it so I used it.

Still a lot of work to switch and the cost of a decent t56 doesn't help. Not worth it to me at this point in time. I would rather leave the Chevelle auto and get a lighter car with a manual.

Just a little more input from my experience...I also had a 69 camaro that although not as fast as the bbc 67, I spent a fair amount more $ to have it be a car I could drive anywhere and do anything with. $75,000+ to have a/c, 550hp sbc 402, fancy interior,paint job, RS hideaway headlights, wilwood brakes and a built th350 trans with a gear vendors od. The car would run 10.8 in the qtr with a 50 shot and change the shock settings and wheel/tire combo and although not as fast or stop as well as the 67 with better brakes, it would hang with stock Z06's.

Having more money then sense, I thought it would be cool to put a Kreisler TKO 5sp in the car. Man, what a dumb idea!!!

Added 3-5 tenths at the dragstrip (if I could find third gear). Was horrible at going into 3rd when really hustling the car, the clutch was waaay stiff where everyday driving was a pain, and talk about a 3ft throw on the shifter.

Short story long...IMO I ruined the versatility of the car a bunch. And constant problems with the trans as well as little help from Keisler ruined me on them and their product.

There is NO doubt as I said in an earlier post, for me...I would rather run an auto trans at the road course then a stick at the drags. IF however, like me you get where you hardly ever do the 1/4 any more and your car sees 50/50 road course and street driving, a manual trans is certainly the better choice. However, if you don't see more then 8-10 road race sessions a year, I would just get the biggest trans cooler you can find, a shift kit and use the auto trans you have, especially if it's your daily driver and you're on any kind of a budget. (and have your trans overfill tube connected to a catch can rather then spraying out on your headers and tires. Smoke in the cabin and doing 360's at 80mph with cars bearing down on you really ain't that much fun).

This was a fun read and makes me feel better about the idea of an auto on a road course. I don't have much desire to run a car thru some cones in a parking lot, but I think it'd be fun to take one on a road course. I have the bug for drag racing, but road racing has always been something I've wanted to dabble in just for curiosities sake. I'm not one to give up the auto at the drags, so knowing that it is possible for a 4l60 to live in this environment is great news. OP - I live in central OK, may have to make the 4 hour trip out there sometime in the next couple years and check out that track with a couple friends.

If you are serious about doing road race stuff then you simply can't run an automatic. If drag racing is more important to you than stick with an auto.

An affordable twin disc clutch can make the pedal pressure be light like a little Honda and hold 1000hp. McLeod RST/RXT twin discs are awesome.

The new T56 Magnum will also cure any blues you had from a TKO600 5spd. Going to a manual isn't cheap.... but they are waaay more fun IMO.

I think if there was a road race track as close to me as there is a 1/4 mile track (half an hour away) I'd be alot more inclined to build a road race car. I don't have the means to tow the car, and don't trust it making the 2 hour drive there - racing - then coming back. Also the time involved in racing at the closest road race track isn't manageable for me for the cost (2 times a year @ $150/ea for a day vs. 20 times a year @ $15/ea for 4 hour outings)

ooohhh my god must have done so much fun...its pretty cooll..i like it a lot..

Any car is fun on the road course. I had 70SS LS6 454/450hp back in the day.

They were a lot of fun on the drag strip.

When the 700R4 died in my auto '93, I had it rebuilt into a manual valvebody with a nice sized trans cooler a few years ago. Essentially its a 4 speed sequential w/o a clutch & very fun to drive. When driing agressively, I can blip the throttle on downshifts to rpm match just the same as a stick to maintain front/rear balance under heard braking (ie: turn 5 at Road America). On the gas, I'm running it to whatever rpm before going up a gear... or holding the top of a gear running through a corner. Unlike the 94's & newer w/ the 4L60E, there's no electronics involved with the shifting.

Just got this vid done of the dragons tail when I was on it-- listen for the up/downshifts thorugh the wind noise.

http://youtu.be/iWVTSUJlILU