Generation IV Internal Engine - Solid Roller, tsp 416 short block questions

Need help getting the setup right and not missing anything. Will still be awhile before i have the money and things can change.

Part i have list
1. Melling oil pump
2. trickflow 215's milled to 59cc 2.055 hollow stem intake valve
3. springs are comp 917's, 200lbs at 1.80 and 596lbs at 1.1 - installed at 1.795
4. titanium retainers
5. Harlan sharp 1.7's adjustables
6. Fast 102 and tb
7. kooks 1-7/8 headers
8. arp head bolts and main studs
9. other misc boltons and stuff

Parts i want list
1. Howards cams mechanical lifters - pretty sure rebranded morels
2. pushrods? what diameter and wall thickness? tapered? smith brothers?
3. ls2 conversion kit
4. Been thinking a ported victor jr. with 4150 over the fast 102 will make more usable power in the rev range for the track. Plus would like it for the spray.
5. TSP 416 - wiesco pistons, compstar rods, compstar crank or equiv. looking like -10cc pistons for 11.7:1 compression. Will their setup be good for 7500 rpm and a 200 shot of spray.
6. Custom cam - Pat G maybe. Basically want best average power in the 5500 to 7300 rpm range and safe for the 200 shot and even a 250 if i feel like it. Not sure where the rpms will be at when shifting not really expecting too much over a 2200 rpm drop from 3rd to 4th.

Main concerns are the short blocks ability to hold up to the rpms and spray and of course getting the parts right. I know the 215's are limiting me but unless somebody wants to give me a pretty penny for them they are gonna stay.

The car is an 01 SS, 6 speed, MWC 9 inch, MWC rear suspension, 4.11's, trans aint built yet and i need more clutch and front suspension.

Car is very very minimal street. Only time it really see's street is when i drive it to the track or to test something on the car.

Does someone have some good info on this. Texas Speed can you guys give me a good idea if the short block will handle whats listed above.

Dont forget the $1000 in adjustable rockers you will need.

I would be very concerned about the oiling system also. pump pan and pickup tube need to be perfect for it to last.

Tim

yes it will be alright. The tune for the spray needs to be spot on. I would do a direct port with the Vic jr. The 4150 plate TBody with out an elbow would be the ticket.

The 102 might not give you the rpm range that your looking for. With the cath heads it might be higher. I'm running the rect. ports. So can't speak from exp.

I would install better valves on the heads. Revs or Ferra Lite weight intakes and inconel exhaust to handle the heat. The short block should be fine. I'm running the comp star h beam rods. They are tough. You might look at the isky lifters with the bushings. They use them instead of needle brgs. If your not street driving then it might not be an issue.

I'm thinking the 6 speed will be your weak link in the whole package. Jerico 4 speed or Glide would be better IMOP. The 60 e that I'm running has become my biggest pain. Good luck.

yes it will be alright. The tune for the spray needs to be spot on. I would do a direct port with the Vic jr. The 4150 plate TBody with out an elbow would be the ticket.

The 102 might not give you the rpm range that your looking for. With the cath heads it might be higher. I'm running the rect. ports. So can't speak from exp.

I would install better valves on the heads. Revs or Ferra Lite weight intakes and inconel exhaust to handle the heat. The short block should be fine. I'm running the comp star h beam rods. They are tough. You might look at the isky lifters with the bushings. They use them instead of needle brgs. If your not street driving then it might not be an issue.

I'm thinking the 6 speed will be your weak link in the whole package. Jerico 4 speed or Glide would be better IMOP. The 60 e that I'm running has become my biggest pain. Good luck.

I wanted to go direct port but lsx real street rules won't allow it. They only allow plate kits or foggers. This is not gonna be a class specific car tho, i am just gonna try to stay within the rules so i can run the class. I do believe that a ported vic jr. with a 4150 without a elbow would be the ticket, i am just not crazy about spending all that money lol.

If it does not cost to much and i can just drop them right in with the same valve job i might get the inconel exhaust, that would be a good upgrade. I was thinking about the isky lifters as some to use also. I have to do more research on these howards cams lifters anyway. For $ 350 and they suppose to be rebranded morels is awesome. I will look into the needle bearings vs bushings to get a better idea of it.

I agree the 6 speed is gonna be tough to keep together, i plan on sending it to rpm transmissions and get it built. I want it faceplated but of course real street rules don't allow faceplating:bang:. This other gto t56 i have cannot be faceplated but has triple and double syncros and such so i think it might work for higher rpm shifting and will hold up. I plan on using something to spray the gears to try and keep them alive also.

Thanks for your reply man.

Dont forget the $1000 in adjustable rockers you will need.

I would be very concerned about the oiling system also. pump pan and pickup tube need to be perfect for it to last.

Tim

I plan on running the harland sharp 1.7 adjustables, i have seen others run similar setups like the yella terra's with a solid roller and get away with it. I know they are not ideal but T&D's and Jesel's are way too much. If the harland sharps end up being a problem on down the road and the engine is still together lol, i will probably decide to spend the coin on some. I have already bought the harland sharps also.

I agree pump, pan and pickup need to be upgraded. Glad you mentioned that. I was thinking of either staying with the stock pan and upgrading to a trap door system and maybe crank oil scrapers or getting one of the aftermarket pans with trap door and crank oil scrapers. I have a melling oil pump but i think its overkill and might not work the best for my combination, i could be wrong tho.

Thanks for replying man.

I like Jesel lifters and put bushings in the bores. Good rockers are a must as well as pushrods. I've used Smith bros stuff for years with great success.

I like Jesel lifters and put bushings in the bores. Good rockers are a must as well as pushrods. I've used Smith bros stuff for years with great success.

Jesels are nice but i am not sure how much they will cost, i think the morels or the isky's will be plenty. Your right solid roller bushings need to be put in. I am hoping the harlan sharps will be plenty but i can see myself having trouble in the future with them but i don't know for sure. I will most likely go with smith bros, i have seen lots of success using these. Not quite sure the diameter and wall thickness yet. I wanna say i need at least 3/8" diameter at the least and .125 wall thickness should do the trick. Should keep them stiff enough to not bend under high rpm. I will ask smith bros what they recommend when i get the measurements to order them. The heads look like they will clear the 3/8" with ease but i need to measure that to and also see what a 7/16 looks like also.

Thanks for the advice.

The rpm will kill it if the pump is not up to the task. I have a moroso pan pick up has had work and the pump flows way more than any of the melling pumps. I get all my stuff from Tim at the car shop he has a line of pumps that are killer

Tim

The rpm will kill it if the pump is not up to the task. I have a moroso pan pick up has had work and the pump flows way more than any of the melling pumps. I get all my stuff from Tim at the car shop he has a line of pumps that are killer

Tim

I will take a look at what he has. Good info. Sounds like i need to talk to a few engine builders and see exactly how much volume and pressure i will need. Thanks man i could have easily overlooked that and eat up some bearings or destroy the engine. The more i think about it the more i think i need a dedicated engine builder that has done alot of these so i don't overlook something small or big.

Our engines are similar, just be sure the builder knows it's for nitrous and gaps the rings accordingly. I'm using the Howard's lifters with no issues so far. I went with a Manton pushrod, it's a 5/16's (0.118-wall I believe), but if I had to do it again I'd get a 11/32 or 3/8 oil-restricted pushrod.

Heads are gonna kill it.

Heads are gonna kill it.

Ok???

I would not say your heads will kill it or choke it, but there are better flowing head options for the stroker motors (like Trick Flow 235 or ported LS3 or PRC 237, etc.).

I have a very similar setup. 416, Wiesco Pistons, Eagle Rods, Eagle Crank, Comp Cam Solid Roller, AFR 225cc heads, T&D Shaft Mounts, Melling Oil Pump, Stock Oil pan with pickup set at 3/8" clearance, Super Victor, 4500 Throttle Body, and a ZEX perimeter plate. Mine likes to rev to 7200 rpm with no oiling issues. I did have it balanced and it made a huge difference.

I have a very similar setup. 416, Wiesco Pistons, Eagle Rods, Eagle Crank, Comp Cam Solid Roller, AFR 225cc heads, T&D Shaft Mounts, Melling Oil Pump, Stock Oil pan with pickup set at 3/8" clearance, Super Victor, 4500 Throttle Body, and a ZEX perimeter plate. Mine likes to rev to 7200 rpm with no oiling issues. I did have it balanced and it made a huge difference.

any dyno result out of that setup ?

Heads are way to small for a 416! Here's a friends setup and it makes killer power and he's having problems with the car breaking up on the top end. http://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamometer-results-comparisons/1569722-416-n-e85-550rhwp.html

Why not have your current heads ported to match the rpm of your 416? Probably going to cost you about a $1000, but it would be well worth it imo.