jimmyblue

iTrader: (11)

Supposedly these sensors get ruined if you don't
run them, but leave them in the stream. The
ideal wideband location might be inconvenient
for continual removal & reinstall, and I might not
want a wideband box rattling around all the time
if I weren't going to have a dash gauge to look at,
something to get stolen if I park with the top down.

I'm thinking, it would be nice if someone made a
"tender" for the sensor that kept it "lit" just well
enough that it didn't get all crusty, not do any
measurement but just like a battery float tender.
Something I could hard-wire under the dash and
plug the sensor connector into when it's not in
active use.

Any such thing? Any idea what the sensor "needs"
as minimum "life support" to survive w/o its host?

samz28

makes sense man. Think about it every 1.8T motor in every vw made after 2001.5 runs the bosch wideband (so does about 20+ other cars). the same wideband sensor. Why they are so cheap now. cheaper than o2 narrowbands lol.

So obviously if moisture and warmup was bad for them, they would all die by now.

so all you have to do it have a system that keeps the sensor warmed up. IIRC these sensors can actually report EGT's if the closed loop digital control has that ability too. I know on the 1.8T VW motor you can datalog egt's from the bosch lsu. Perphaps it has some sort of feedback system built into or the current draw to keep it warm etc.

There is no EGT sensor, just the bosch lsu4 on the 1.8T and it survives 100k+ miles, has alot of moisture, and just uses some sort of closed loop system to keep the temps higher. The problem might be the fact that the closed loop system pumps more power into the wideband during the startup period to rid the moisture/gas, then tapers down once the temps are nominal or too hot. This could be solved with a simple pic/ad board i spose. Or you could just perma-mount your wideband.

You don't actually torque down your wideband right? I mean it takes like 20 seconds to take it off when you don't use it. And the sensors are $17(wholesale) to $62 retail so dont be scared to break it.

for more info on the sensor you are using..
http://www.wbo2.com/lsu/default.htm

READ UP and figure it out.. every little detail is there.

jimmyblue

iTrader: (11)

Looks like, if all it needs is to stay heated
(not have the cell biased) it could be as simple
as H+ = IGN and H- = GND. Though it looks
like the real deal is a chopper drive, this might
be unnecessary (as long as the heater element
can stand full time 12V). Alternatively maybe
a resistor limiter. Is there any downside to just
running the heat full-bore, full-time (when not
reading)? Looks like the Bosch spec says 12V
max continuous and 10V for the "fast light-off",
9W of heater power means about an amp so
probably a 3.3 ohm resistor for ballast would
do the trick.

If I were going to do a bung mount it would be down
after the Y-pipe merge so I could see the composite
gas stream. This means having to get up on the ramps
every time I want to start or stop using it. Call
me lazy....

Thanks for the links, plenty of good info there.

66ImpalaLT1

This question was asked on Innovate Motorsports forum. Klaus, their engineer, gave a fairly good answer.

http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/f...=&threadid=200

samz28

I would not recommend that. It is very likely a problem could occur that causes one bank to run leaner than another. Simply reading the collector with an engine problem could mean 14:1 on one bank and 12:1 on another, but composite you'd get a happy 13:1. Not ideal. Weld two bungs, and run it twice on each y pipe side.

Why not? its just a nut and a hole and if your really poor you can put a dead o2 (free) in the bunghole

Thats my opinion, as i said earlier, i bet race car engines they run a wideband on each runner of the motor so they can adjust per cylinder fueling (ie aftermarket injection). or if an injector locks up at high rpm/power etc. This isn't something us measly low power folks would do. But if i was a boostin' i'd have a way to read each cylinders actual air fuel. Believe it or not your injectors each have a 5% variance unless they were balanced when new. They can get clogged, they can fail at 100% duty cycle. injectors are not meant to run at static. There is a transitory period when the go from normal (80-85%) to static where the injector can float half open.

Ideally we'd all be running bigger injectors with our mods and staying below 100% duty cycle. The poor injectors get really hot when they are forced to run 100 DC.

Talk to racetronix, i think they are a sponsor, they can explain why you don't want to run 100% DC and how injectors do fail, and how injectors do vary in flow (unless matched with sophisticated equipment).

Of course i'm playing total devils advocate but i highly suggest you run two bungs, one on each y pipe, and log the differences. You may someday be suprised, say if a lifter collapses or doesn't pump all the way at high rpm's,etc etc.

The extra nut and weld to have two bungs is a small price to know both banks are right on the money, now isn't it?

thats just my opinion. i come from a boosted tuning world, where margin for error is very slim, and proper injector care and use is the difference between a running motor and a hole in a piston/burnt valve. While it may not be so sensitive on the ls1, long term it all adds up.

Given the price of the sensors you could just make up your power box, and have both sensors running all the time, then just switch up in cabin, or hell buy two lm-1's and log both banks at once lol.

slow

iTrader: (7)

here is an idea, anybody good at electronics, and can you pull out the heater circuit from the diy wideband forums?

might make it easier, but i don't know if that circuit will work with the bosch style, it was made for the ntk ones if my memory is right.

Ryan

samz28

diy has both bosch and ntk style. the bosch are the digital models. the ntk are the analog models.. i dont know if they did a bosch analog style or if the ntk uses the same heat controls.

might ask on the list?

slow

iTrader: (7)

what is the address to the diy, with bosch style.

http://www.diy-wb.com/ is the page i have seen before, and i didn't see any bosch info on there.

figure if you can make one with the $17 ($65) sensors thats what i will do. It was just not worth making the analog one, having to buy a $250 sensor, when you can get the LM1 for a few $$ more, and no time involved

Ryan