Cadillac CTS-V - New Chrysler 300 - CTV Contender?

Guys:

Have you checked out the new Chrysler 300 Sedan? It's $32K has a 340 / 390 lb/tq Hemi (The same engine in the Ramm 1500 truck and Dodge Durango)

It's looks very promising. 0-60 MPH is 6.1 seconds but with some Mods, it probablly come close to the caddy. $18K cheaper to. :)

Anyway, the CTV rocks, don't get me wrong, but for the price this looks like a contender.

More Info on it here: http://www.chrysler.com/300/

And here: http://www.dodgeboy.net/news/300c/index.htm

Car & Driver just tested the new 300C in the latest issue.

0 - 60mph: 5.3 seconds
1/4 mile: 13.9 seconds @ 102mph

That performance is on par with the new Pontiac GTO and Cadillac CTS-V (C&D, R&T, and MT couldn't better 5.1 seconds in their CTS-Vs).

It looks like DCX has two winners on their hands with the new Magnum R/T and 300C.

I can't wait to see what they have in store for the upcoming Charger.

:cheers:

Trishield,

Road and Track had their V to 60mph in 5.0 secs flat and to 100mph in 11.4 secs. Please don't compare that 300C barge to a V. Motor Trend's 300C gets to 60 in 5.8 secs and to 100mph in 14.9 secs. I can't wait to see it's skid pad numbers, not. DC built a great luxury sedan (for the money), but it's no more a sports sedan than the outgoing 300M Special.

Guys, again I'm not trying to start a flame war here. I do realized the CTV is a much better sports sedan than the 300C. Bigger brakes, lighter, stick shift, more HP, etc.

HOWEVER, the 300C IS $18K less, and might be able to keep up with the CTV on a straight line. (It's an autostick).

The new 5.7L Hemi is a very good engine used in both the Ram 1500 and Durango. It's also got something very cool called cylinder deactivation, where 4 of the cilinders stop at low power. Apparently it's unoticible (per autoweek) and it can get 26MPG on the freeway.

My point in all of this, is for the price point of $32K for their top end version, it's sweet ride. All hail the return of the 4 door, v8, American Sedan! :)

A friend of mine got one to check out for an evening. I didn't get to see it. His response was 'yeah, it's alright'. His wife loved it to death. 'It's so quiet and smooth, you can't even tell the engine is running, and it rides like a Cadillac'. Not what I'd want out of a performance type car. It does appear to have some performance potential though.
Pile on that the fact it looks like somebody took a shoebox and tried to add a Rolls front grill on it - and it certainly wouldn't be the car for me.
Dan

No flames here Alex. DC built a great luxury sedan. Now that is has an available V8 and rwd they are definitely a contender vs. the STS and DTS. If I was looking at a $50K+ Deville or Seville, I'd have a hard time justifying it with the $36,000 (fully loaded) 300C waiting in the wings.

I buy my vehicles through GMS and still ended up buying an 2000 LHS because at the time GM had NOTHING that I felt delivered what the LHS did for $30,000. Now hopefully DC can do something about their resale value. My LHS is currently worth $6,000. Hows that for an investment?

One more thing. If you buy a DC product, immediately buy an extended warranty. I won't bore you with the details but my investment in a bumper to bumper 10yr./100K warranty has paid for itself twice already.

Good advice cvp33. :) I'm new to Dodge but I'm very impressed with my 2003 Dodge Durango I got new. Only a 4.7L (No Hemi offered in 2003) but after having it for a year, I really like it. No problems, and I've already modded it, adding about 60Hp and 60 lb/ft of torque with the standard bolt on mods. 0-60 MPH is now just a hair under 7 secs, which ain't bad for a 5,000 lb SUV with a small V8.

Anway, what I've been noticing about DC lately, is the value they've been bringing to the table. Sure if money is no option, we could all have ferraris, Jags or M5's. BUT DC of late seems to bringing the right mix of style, power, and affordability, that's been missing in domestic auto's of late.

As evidence I'll offer the Dodge Ram Truck, $5,000 less than a comparably equipped Ford F150, the Dodge Durango, $10K less than a Tahoe, and the Dodge Srt-4. The fastest (production) car in the world for under 21K.

I see this trend continuing with DC' Magnum, 300C and upcoming 2005 Charger, all matted with the 5.7L Hemi and all loaded, around 30K.

No bad, DC, not bad. :)

DC stuff is cheaper to market but you use every bit of the warranty (at least in the past).

300C is interesting for a quick luxury car. Anytime we get a new RWD offering that's a good thing.

But I'd rather have a CTS-V.

Me to, but $18K less, is well...significant.

DC built a great luxury sedan (for the money), but it's no more a sports sedan than the outgoing 300M Special.

I'd say it's much more of a sport sedan than the 300M special. I never saw a test in which the added "performance" parts of the Special made it any faster than a regular 300M or LHS. And it's still FWD.

The 300C is genuine RWD V8 with more or less w210(last gen) E-class architecture. That's sport sedan bones.


Would I take it over a CTS-V? Yeah, but only if I couldn't swing the extra cost for a CTS-V. The V is better, a highly tuned driving machine, build for the specific purpose of being a world beating sport sedan. The 300C is designed to be more things to more people, and just happens to haul ass and handle well in the process. But it's not as finely tuned to one purpose as the V. i.e. you wouldn't be able to take your stock 300C to the track and lap all day with just a brake pad and tire change.

Both great cars, but you would only see me in the 300 if financial considerations kept me out of the CTS-V.

It will be interesting to see which one depreciates faster. In the past 10 years, the only thing that depreciates faster than a Cadillac or a Jag is a Chrysler. Could make for some great performance bargains on the used car lot :)

I applaud DaimlerChrysler for bringing big bad RWD V8 sedans back to the mass market. The CTS-V and GTO are great, but they are limited production cars. The 300C sets the stage for the return of the muscle bound american sedan in much larger production numbers. And it might get GM to build us a real impala/caprice/bonneville with RWD and a V8.

The front end on that barge is FUGLY! What's the hemi powered one run, $36k?

The front end on that barge is FUGLY! What's the hemi powered one run, $36k?

Starts at 32,000. Gets to about 36,000 with the options I want - Sunroof, Bluetooth, Side Curtain airbags, HIDs, Boston Acoustics Stereo -more or less everything but Nav and sattelite radio.

TTopJohn,

They are using Boston Acoustics now? They were using Infinity, that's what I have on my 2000 LHS. Still sounds pretty good, until I get in the Caddy. Then again, who listens to the radio in a CTS-V anyway?

The 300C which replaces the out going 300M is a significant improvement if only drive train. The 300C is RWD with AWD coming in the fall and is 5.7L Hemi Powered.

The 300M, even fully loaded only offers a v6 and is FWD.

Something to watch from DC certainly. I complete agree though, the CTV is a better sports sedan all around. No arguments.

The 32K price point of the 5.7L 300C is just attractive, that's all.

TTopJohn,

They are using Boston Acoustics now? They were using Infinity, that's what I have on my 2000 LHS. Still sounds pretty good, until I get in the Caddy. Then again, who listens to the radio in a CTS-V anyway?

Yep - check it out:

http://www.chrysler.com/300/features/interior_styling/sound_systems.html?context=300-features-interior_styling-index&type=modelsub


Sounds like we are all on the same page - 300C is cool at it's price point, but CTS-V is cooler if you can swing it.

Yep, summed up nicely John. :)

Here are some links on it from Edmunds. Not trying to turn this into a Chrysler board mind you. :D

Full Editors Review: http://www.edmunds.com/new/2005/chrysler/300/100378299/review.html?tid=edmunds.spotlight.landing.links..3 .chrysler*

http://www.autoweek.com/search/search_display.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat_code=coverstory&content_code=04277743&Search_Type=STD&Search_ID=2034291&record=1

On the Hemi in it specifically: http://www.autoweek.com/search/search_display.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat_code=columnists&content_code=02723798&Search_Type=STD&Search_ID=2034291&record=2

Story on the combination of the two: http://www.autoweek.com/search/search_display.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat_code=carnews&content_code=04036430&Search_Type=STD&Search_ID=2034291&record=3

All around positive reviews.

The part I found most interesting was the fuel economy with on demand displacement. The 300C still only manages 25mpg on the highway with 4 cylinders? Can that be right? It's the same as the CTS-V with all 8 running and pulling a 3.73 gear. Who says GM pushrod engines are antiquated?

I believe that's an average. In one of the reviews it said they were averaging 33 MPG (per the dash gauge MPG thingie) when they were just cruising on the freeway and the engine was on 4 cyllinders.

Chrysler is saying it's about a 20% more gain than a standard v8.

I drove the 300C last night, a real yawner... it has a 2.82 rear end, probably would do a lot better with a 3.73, very smooth engine, lays rubber off the line, boring when floored at 60 mph, feels big and heavy, which would be fine if the engine were up to the task, as in an old big block. Having owned a CTS-V for 48 hours, I can tell you it is not in its league, however, i was not impressed by the V either, where's the horsepower? It is fast, but does not feel thrilling (either car), unlike my 69 Chevelle 396-375hp I owned in college. Perhaps memories make that car seem faster, but it felt like jumping off the high dive when punched, and niether the V nor the 300C come anywhere close to that feeling... Has anyone found a chip or something for the V? I'm having the dealer check to see if the 3.63 rear end offered on the 300 Touring can work in the C, otherwise it's a very nice four door sedan...

I drove the 300C last night, a real yawner...

Considering the 300C being talked about in this thread hasn't hit dealerships yet, I would like to know how you drove one?

I think what most of you are missing in this thread is the full size 4 door at a reasonable price is returning to America. The Cadillac CTS cannot sit 4 adults comfortably. I am 6'5" and like to find vehicles where I can ride as a passenger in the back comfortably and that does not happen in todays market of SMALL 4 doors(even mid-size and full-size are not capable in my size range). Once the new 300C is available at a dealership, my wife and I will be there to see how this thing sits 4 people, tall people. The 300C with the Hemi isn't supposed to compete with the CTS-V, it is supposed to get people around comfortably and the Hemi is to provide power to get around all the A-holes who think 75 means 60!

Todd

Today I did a Chrysler Ride and Drive in a 300C then back to back (same course) drove a CTS (stripped/base 3.6L auto, NON-V) and of course drove to and from this location in my V. The real test was the 300T (3.5L NON-HEMI) compared to the CTS - but they only let us drive 2 cars (on this course). My picks were the 300C and the CTS. The power OBVIOUSLY was better in the 300C (345hp vs. 255hp) but the car is also MUCH larger....

I'm confused how they can throw it into the CTS class (other than 3.5L engine in the 300T- that I did not drive, 4 doors, and price point) it's more comparable to a Deville in size and handling. It felt boat like compared to the CTS. I'm trying to figure out their target....If I had $35k and I needed a comfy cruiser for 5 I would shop for a 1-2 year old DTS with warranty. How many DeVille buyers are on a constrained budget? (and yes I know the DeVille is FWD - have you driven one?).

Just my thoughts.
-Ben

P.S. The interior in (all of the) dozen or so 300C's were AWFUL.

I just test drove one last night. I think DC hit a home run on this one. I kept having to remind myself this is a Chrysler. No doubt, the Mercedes 5 speed tranny and suspension really helped out here. The car is deceptively quick. It's so quiet and the cabin is so well isolated that it doesn't feel like your going that fast until you look at the speedo. I'm a big guy so hip and shoulder room is important for me. This is a big car. I like the caddies, but their just too small for me. I felt very comfortable in the 300. I'm a little over 6ft tall and the back seat was ample for where I would put the front seat if I was driving.
One of the things I didn't like was the traction control. Even when disengaged, it would still activate once the tires started to haze. Your not going to lay down huge clouds of smoke until that thing is disabled. The chosen tire will only allow a top speed of 126. I here the European version will allow 155.
The one word that would sum it up for me is value. I can't think of anything that would even come close to it when factoring in utility, comfort, performance, and size. I think it currently is the definitive American full size sedan.
Tom

I understand them using cylinder on demand for mileage, but doesnt it seem kinda gay ??

I understand them using cylinder on demand for mileage, but doesnt it seem kinda gay ??

It can be gay as hell and be fine by me - as long as it lets me get a 340horse 390lb/ft tourqe v8 in a passenger car while still meeting the CAFE requirements.

300C's are out in Cali, at least at rental places, I saw them at LA-X and saw two on the street.

I understand them using cylinder on demand for mileage, but doesnt it seem kinda gay ??

The General is looking at doing the same thing.

I do believe there is a rumor that DC will offer a PVO'd 300C in the near future. Then maybe we can make those CTS-V camparisons.

Do y'all smell.......HORSEPOWER!!!!

I think if you need a four door automatic hot rod..the 300 C with the hemi hits the target..

CTS V series needs DSG 6 speed IMHO ..

Dude, I really don't think you'll ever get a new sedan to feel like that 396 power! The 300C is already rated as a consumers best buy this year for touring, not bad being it was just released a few weeks ago. Not to mention running 13.9 @ 101 mph in the 1/4................thats amazing enough.

:givesfuck It's a dodge! :barf:

I do believe there is a rumor that DC will offer a PVO'd 300C in the near future. Then maybe we can make those CTS-V camparisons.


PVO is confirmed to be making a SRT-8 Dodge Magnum (and it will likely be 400+HP, AWD, and have HID projectors like the concept).

No word on whether they'll do the same thing with the 300C.

I love the 300. It brings back the big RWD sedans with big engines. I also love the new hemi line and the SRT line. It is a great direction for DC. I do not expect to see an SRT version of the 300. It just doesn't make sense to make a large and clumsy sedan with 400+hp. I don't believe the SRT-8 versions of the Magnum and Charger will be that radical, as they will probably be built to compete with the GTO, which I believe will soon get 400hp along with the CTS-V thanks to the LS2. I wouldn't plan on seeing the GenIII in use for more than a year after the introduction of the GenIV. That goes along with what GM has been doing with previous engines.

300C has a jewel like quality..

As far as rwd V8 hemi four door sedan..with an automatic...

This cars amazing..

The CTS V series is even more impressive if a six speed manual is a buyers preference...

SRT should be kept in the dodge stable as far as I'm concerned..

Maybe supercharge the Charger? For 430 hp..

I do not expect to see an SRT version of the 300. It just doesn't make sense to make a large and clumsy sedan with 400+hp.

Apparently they can dance as well as sing judging from the reviews so far.

I do not expect to see an SRT version of the 300. It just doesn't make sense to make a large and clumsy sedan with 400+hp. I don't believe the SRT-8 versions of the Magnum and Charger

Well, C&D and R&T reported that a sport version of the 300C is on the way. And if they are doing an SRT Magnum, it makes sense that they would do a 300C as well.


BTW, how is the sedan "large and clumsy", but the station wagon (the magnum) is not?

Well, C&D and R&T reported that a sport version of the 300C is on the way. And if they are doing an SRT Magnum, it makes sense that they would do a 300C as well.


BTW, how is the sedan "large and clumsy", but the station wagon (the magnum) is not?

I now rememer reading that as well.

Supercharged 300C? 430 hp?

Apparently they can dance as well as sing judging from the reviews so far.It might be able to do the mashed potatoe, but I don't think it can tango like a V.

SRT should be kept in the dodge stable as far as I'm concerned..

Maybe supercharge the Charger? For 430 hp..I agree that the SRT tag should be kept with Dodge. I suppose a supercharged version of the 300 is feasible because Mercedes went that direction quite a bit, and thats what the 300 is like, a Mercedes. If Dodge has to supercharge the Charger just to get 400hp, they simply aren't trying hard enough. :headbang:

I still don't really see how the 300 is anything like a V though...

It's true the 300C will get an upgraded engine in early 2005. The new supercharged hemi will wear special "SU" badging to designate the supercharged version. It will now be the 300SUC.

SUC? Sports Utility Car???? lol

The V certainly isn't the best car on the planet, just the best car on the planet for $46,000. I was seriously considering a new C32 or a used E55 / M5. Glad I didn't have to settle for one of those. The V is EXACTLY what I wanted.

I agree that the SRT tag should be kept with Dodge. I suppose a supercharged version of the 300 is feasible because Mercedes went that direction quite a bit, and thats what the 300 is like, a Mercedes. If Dodge has to supercharge the Charger just to get 400hp, they simply aren't trying hard enough. :headbang:


They are even coming out with a SRT Crossfire...that is insane!!! They are raiding the AMG parts bin now!!!

i have to say....i test drove the cts-v
i was not impressed with the power so i didnt buy it...

the car was very nice and handled very well

i also just drove the 300 c hemi

i have to admit.... and im not a dodge fan

this 300c hemi blew my mind for ONLY $ 37,000

power was nice and ride quality and comfort was incredible

yeah its no cts-v but its not a car to compare to the cts-v


im actually trying to talk my parent into getting one

300Cs are already moving around here. The local dealer is selling them (with one or two options) for $31,000 - $32,500.

Quite a bargain, but a different type of car than the CTS-V.

I applaud Chrysler for abandoning 'cab forward' styling. They also are to be commended for returning to RWD. And I must admit that in a sea of conformity they have definitely established themselves as a rebel. But it's not enough to just be different. The car is butt ugly. (yes coming from a GTO lover) Beltline too high, front fascia imposing and truck-like. It may be unique, it may be one hell of a value, but so were the AMC Pacer and the Pontiac Aztek. The HEMI is a great engine, but why does it have to come in an ASS shaped box?

I applaud Chrysler for abandoning 'cab forward' styling. They also are to be commended for returning to RWD. And I must admit that in a sea of conformity they have definitely established themselves as a rebel. But it's not enough to just be different. The car is butt ugly. (yes coming from a GTO lover) Beltline too high, front fascia imposing and truck-like. It may be unique, it may be one hell of a value, but so were the AMC Pacer and the Pontiac Aztek. The HEMI is a great engine, but why does it have to come in an ASS shaped box?


I thought the same of the CTS. I thought that it was the ugliest car GM made outside the Aztek. As I saw more of them, the styling grew on me, and when I saw the CTS-V at last years NY Auto Show, I was like "whoa!!!"

Personally, I think the 300C is pretty stylish in its own right, sort of a throwback gangster style car. Very cool IMO.

I always liked the styling of the CTS from the beginning. Car's styling usually doesn't grow on me. I do like one view of the 300C and that's the rear. Saw an off-white one today and a red one at the dealer. The darker the color the worse it looks. The HEMI will sell more of these cars than the styling. JMHO.