Cadillac CTS-V - Maggie or Whipple... What to do?!?

Ok, to catch everybody up I've had 2 maggie'd V's. Thinking i wanted tons of horsepower, and knowing the maggie is maxed at just over 500 RWHP, Now I've put a monster 3.3L Whipple on it. Since then I've been slowly working out the bugs and fixing the many (many) weak links necessary to handle the power. Now I'm down to the motor... Which is easily a $5k turn key expense to do a decent forged bottom end.

Maybe it's because this car is sucking up all of my expendable cash for so long... But now I'm starting to want things like a ski boat... Side by side maybe, or even a dedicated track car. I'm starting to think I should just pull the Whipple and go back to old faithful, and enjoy a worry free supercharger that doesn't put such a strain on the car, and start spending my money on other toys rather than my (mostly) daily driver.

To make this decision even harder I have a frigging gorgeous polished Maggie staring at me in the garage that I could have on the car if I wanted.

What would you do? Am I just running into the typical wall that most people hit at some point in a long running project... Should I just wait it out?

Reading this thread may sound like BS... But I really am struggling with this decision. I've talked myself both ways at least twice.

Maggie:
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d90/mark_woodruff/CTS-v/Pic06.jpg

Or Whipple: http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d90/mark_woodruff/04%20CTS-V/IMG_0148.jpg

Can't beat old faithful but the whipple when complete would be sick!

I feel ya man. Mine is not half as hard as yours is and Ive considered the same thing many times. Every time you turn around its time to put it back on jack stands and cut another check because it has to be perfect. I guess thats why they call it mod hell.

All I know is I want a pic of where your intake goes through the fenderwell and which filter did you use so I can make that my next project :devil:

it's our fucking hobby dude, it's expensive and it sucks ass, but it's worth it in the end.

If you're just looking for opinions, I say Maggie and have some other fun.

Those long running projects only frustrate you more and more.. Haha and anything over 500whp for a semi-daily is no joke.

Keep the whipple. Its already on n done. Sell the Maggie to pay for the bottom end build. Save for a few months. Buy a new boat or side by side.... Done. That was easy! Lol

I'm thinkin I'd go with D Blocks plan. I like having unique stuff so the fact that a whipple on a V is rare makes it way cooler than the Maggie. Just my opinion. Lol

But that Maggie is pretty.

Whipple...

You're already this pretty deep, may as well finish the job (that's what she said).

it's our fucking hobby dude, it's expensive and it sucks ass, but it's worth it in the end.

yah I know. Ive spent so much, Ill never sell this car. Its definitely a hobby at this point, its almost a bad habit.

Hell its on jackstands again waiting on a ECP TR6060 and a Mantic twin.

Then its getting an active interchiller trunk mount chiller tank next week. WOOT!

Some day I may get it tuned :thumb:

The hell with a 112 over a whipple. Keep the whipple, run the car till it breaks and then fix it better then now and dont worry anymore.

I vote whipple as well.

I got it!

Keep the Whipple, build an awesome forged motor and put 15+ lbs of boost on it.

While your working on that, buy another V and put the maggie on it as your DD ;)

You get the best of both worlds

Don't make me punch you in the junk.

Keep the Whipple and sell the Maggie to finance the bottom end. If you are just forging and keeping stock displacement it shouldn't be too bad, all you need is forged rods and pistons since the stock crank is good to 1000+ hp.

If selling the Maggie doesn't get you what you need, start selling crack rocks.

Yeah what tommy said!! Lol

oh and crack is whack. Bath salts is where its at!

And Cole, no girl has ever told u that u were in pretty deep!!

If you plan on keeping that V long term, keep working on the whipple. You have a one off set up that is truly bad ass. Piece by piece you will get all the little things figured, and when it finally is done it will feel rewarding. I have a project like this and I constantly find something that needs to change but I wouldn't trade it.

Keep the whipple...

Can't sell the whipple now.... you've already cut the radiator cover!

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d90/mark_woodruff/04%20CTS-V/IMG_0148.jpg

Sell me the maggie! I just did my 8.8 conversion, now I need that maggie!

Yeah, I see this thread and all I can think about is the fact that I might see either of these Superchargers in the For Sale section! I wish I never sold my Procharger :(

I'm almost in the same boat as the op with my Whipple. I haven't even got to enjoy it yet, but am still dumping money into it in preperation. Heads on the way, Meth installed. Next step is 8.8 rear end, then forged bottom end. When the bottom end is done I,ll do a cam and throw more boost at it. You are certainly ahead of me with it now.
I keep breaking other things without the Whipple not even installed.

Whip it....whip it good.

I got dibs on the maggie!

I got it... Sell whipple, Sell maggie, Sell car.. Buy V2. This isnt the generation for modding to achieve big power.

V2= Better suspension, Better brakes, more potential, more reliable, better interior... I mean you can't really make an argument against it. It will be a turn key car that is as fast as a maggie and can get as fast as the whipple would with basic motor head mods (pulleys, exhaust, cam, etc.)

http://ls1tech.com/forums/cadillac-cts-v/1565424-i-know-isnt-news-anyone.html

Do it and never look back.

I sold the Maggie I got from you because I realized that even to handle 500whp that you could get from a Maggie and can, it would be a $10-15k adventure before I could drive it without the fear of spreading metal parts down the road. As soon as I get settled in the new casa its out wih the old and end with the new, most likely in a wagon form.

I can make an argument against it, my 1st gen is paid off.

And in the next few years you will more than likely be paying for some sort of relatively expensive repair. Car payments are always around the corner when you Dont have one. For the op, he could sell all he has now and have a low enough car payment that he could afford another small payment on a water activity vehicle. Best of both worlds in what he wants while really not coming out of pocket a substantial amount. Obviously all of this is dependent on ones financial situation.

id just forge the bottom.. i just built mine and the bottom is good for 1000hp.. i built it myself so i saved there but it was under 3k for the full build. that included the eagle rods and arp2000,diamond pistons and rings,clevite P bearings thru out, machining, polished crank and balanced ,decked heads, ls9 cam and springs,all the gaskets throughout..

it can be done on the cheap if u bargain hunt and can do the work yourself..biggest bitch of the whole job is filing all the damned rings

Then once you get some engine builds under your belt you can do for others and make some side $$

Sure sounds better than being another 25k + in debt like the dr. Ordered.

Then once you get some engine builds under your belt you can do for others and make some side $$

thats what i do, these ls motors are pretty strait forward..not much to em at all.. just gotta make sure all ur torqing is done right and double check ur work.

im a streetbike mechanic and have built 100's of those motors..those things are like jigsaw puzzles compared to an LS

Sure sounds better than being another 25k + in debt like the dr. Ordered.


:cheers:


i mean all the hard work is done with the whipple.. why waste it.?

Sure sounds better than being another 25k + in debt like the dr. Ordered.

Exaaaaaactly

Sure sounds better than being another 25k + in debt like the dr. Ordered.

First of all, before I go in to this long drawn out post, let me say that I don’t feel one person is right in their thought’s over another as it’s really all in what you want. I understand the desire to represent your vehicle platform and it’s potential, etc. etc. I came here from the B5 S4 community (after a little break on 2 wheels) and I watched people dump 30,40,50 and in some cases close to $100k in to the platform in efforts to achieve big power and be “different”. In the end, they were left with a car that put down 200 more AWHP and went .4 seconds faster in the ¼ IF it held together (which they rarely did). I think what the OP is trying to say is that increasing a car’s HP more than double of what it was intended for becomes a head case in almost every car. It’s not just the motor, its EVERY aspect of the vehicle. Suspension, Brakes, Transmission, Axles, Rear end, every fluid Pump and line, Cooling, EVERYTHING. You are requesting double the work load of every part that has to do with making the wheels go round.

Here’s a little math for the conversation though; All prices are with installation and are (what I feel) a fair and good price.

Gen 1 CTSV -$18k
Maggie Kit, cam, tune,etc.- $6500
Coilover suspension - $2500
Brake upgrade (rotors, pads, lines)- $700
Upgraded clutch kit- $900 (IF the transmission will even hold)
9 inch rear - $8000
Full exhaust - $1500


You are at just under $40,000. If you want to go Whipple you’re easily adding another $15,000. You will need all custom work done and im willing to bet that if you really want to drive the car you will need to beef the trans up a little as well. Here’s the end results-

-Highly modified headache vs Stock V2 that still has a warranty.
-Peak performance Vs Stock with LOTS of reliable room to grow.
-Maggied V1 vs. Stock V2 = Drivers race
-Whipple or Procharged V1 vs. Modified V2 = probably going to be the V2
I think in all the above cases.. You risk needing a trailer to get the V1 home while the V2 will be driven home.

All of this and the V2 still has better fit and finish on the interior and is also proven that it can get into the mid 10’s with moderate modification. Saving the best for last… Not only does the V2 still have better fit and finish and room to grow but that $40,000-$55,000 V1 is only worth about $27k IF you can find the right buyer and the V2 is still as $40,000 and an easy sale.


If you have a wife or something similar... Than it's THAT much easier to go V2.

http://stolenmemes.com/uploads/9d93148f4b96abd8689258331774d57b.jpg

I feel ya man. Mine is not half as hard as yours is and Ive considered the same thing many times. Every time you turn around its time to put it back on jack stands and cut another check ...

You are 100% right... that's exactly how it's starting to feel! :(

it's our fucking hobby dude, it's expensive and it sucks ass, but it's worth it in the end.

That's almost sig worthy...

Whipple...

You're already this pretty deep, may as well finish the job (that's what she said).

That's what I keep telling myself... but it sometimes it's on jackstands more than on the road! That is exactly why I started the post.

yah I know. Ive spent so much, Ill never sell this car...

Yea, my wife swears that I will be buried in that car as much $ is in it.

Don't make me punch you in the junk.

Shut up and get yours running! I need someone else to feel my pain! :corn:

Can't sell the whipple now.... you've already cut the radiator cover!


Good point... hmmm....


id just forge the bottom.. i just built mine and the bottom is good for 1000hp.. i built it myself so i saved there but it was under 3k for the full build.

Man I wish you were closer to Tx!

First of all, before I go in to this long drawn out post, let me say that I don’t feel one person is right in their thought’s over another as it’s really all in what you want. I understand the desire to represent your vehicle platform and it’s potential, etc. etc. I came here from the B5 S4 community (after a little break on 2 wheels) and I watched people dump 30,40,50 and in some cases close to $100k in to the platform in efforts to achieve big power and be “different”. In the end, they were left with a car that put down 200 more AWHP and went .4 seconds faster in the ¼ IF it held together (which they rarely did). I think what the OP is trying to say is that increasing a car’s HP more than double of what it was intended for becomes a head case in almost every car. It’s not just the motor, its EVERY aspect of the vehicle. Suspension, Brakes, Transmission, Axles, Rear end, every fluid Pump and line, Cooling, EVERYTHING. You are requesting double the work load of every part that has to do with making the wheels go round.

Here’s a little math for the conversation though; All prices are with installation and are (what I feel) a fair and good price.

Gen 1 CTSV -$18k
Maggie Kit, cam, tune,etc.- $6500
Coilover suspension - $2500
Brake upgrade (rotors, pads, lines)- $700
Upgraded clutch kit- $900 (IF the transmission will even hold)
9 inch rear - $8000
Full exhaust - $1500


You are at just under $40,000. If you want to go Whipple you’re easily adding another $15,000. You will need all custom work done and im willing to bet that if you really want to drive the car you will need to beef the trans up a little as well. Here’s the end results-

-Highly modified headache vs Stock V2 that still has a warranty.
-Peak performance Vs Stock with LOTS of reliable room to grow.
-Maggied V1 vs. Stock V2 = Drivers race
-Whipple or Procharged V1 vs. Modified V2 = probably going to be the V2
I think in all the above cases.. You risk needing a trailer to get the V1 home while the V2 will be driven home.

All of this and the V2 still has better fit and finish on the interior and is also proven that it can get into the mid 10’s with moderate modification. Saving the best for last… Not only does the V2 still have better fit and finish and room to grow but that $40,000-$55,000 V1 is only worth about $27k IF you can find the right buyer and the V2 is still as $40,000 and an easy sale.


If you have a wife or something similar... Than it's THAT much easier to go V2.

Whoa, before anybody freaks out on the good Dr... this thread was to help ME, and I appreciate the feedback! Pros/Cons... I'm open to both, understanding that some things are matters of opinion or point of view. I've got to read these posts and think about how I feel about the info presented.

Thanks guys!

I hear what the good dr. Is saying, maybe I'm busting balls a bit. Personally I'm into this car good and bad too deep to contemplate a gen 2, unless I total it and insurance pays for my down payment. I'm still not sold on the V2 yet and still enjoy my V1. figures don't compute for myself as I do the work myself. It's not like I just bought the car, I have 3 years into it and probably as many mods as the cars value, so just selling it and getting the next gen is a mute point for me. I'd still at this point rather have a modded first gen than a stock second gen. I guess it gets tiring hearing people use the same padded answer "just go buy a v2". For me I like having no payments and I can save for my mods bit by bit.
1bad I do feel some of your pain, and have also thought of going an easier route with say a Maggie, but then keep telling myself that I've come this far.

I hear what the good dr. Is saying, maybe I'm busting balls a bit. Personally I'm into this car good and bad too deep to contemplate a gen 2, unless I total it and insurance pays for my down payment. I'm still not sold on the V2 yet and still enjoy my V1. figures don't compute for myself as I do the work myself. It's not like I just bought the car, I have 3 years into it and probably as many mods as the cars value, so just selling it and getting the next gen is a mute point for me. I'd still at this point rather have a modded first gen than a stock second gen. I guess it gets tiring hearing people use the same padded answer "just go buy a v2". For me I like having no payments and I can save for my mods bit by bit.
1bad I do feel some of your pain, and have also thought of going an easier route with say a Maggie, but then keep telling myself that I've come this far.


There, now go throw that canary on a motor and let's see if she can sing! (haha, sorry, I just couldn't resist!). :)

Waiting on heads from AFR :)

Well, 1BADCTS is stuck with his Whipple. Just bought his Maggie. :cheers:

Well, 1BADCTS is stuck with his Whipple. Just bought his Maggie. :cheers:

i am sure you are both chucked to bits over this.

Well 1badcts if you really want to do the motor, I'll build it for ya. Say 500 for the bottom end or 650 for a complete long block ready to bolt in. I can have all the machining done minus head work for around 600. You would have to buy the rods and pistons.. I'll have the bearings spec'd once the crank is looked at and polished.. They would be part of the machine shops bill. You would need a gm performance gasket set and decide what u wanna do with the heads and compression ratio and all that. It would prolly be cheaper to find someone locally since you'd have to pay to ship the block and crank but if I can help let me know.

You can also get a forged iron block ready for heads from a few places for like 3500. I can get u links of you'd like for them. I'd love to see a v1 with a whipple that makes good power so of I can help I will

I think you are right that shipping would probably ruin the advantage, but maybe you would be willing to help spec parts, and help me know what to make sure gets done? I scored a complete 2005 'V dropout with the full accessory set, heads... Everything.

Depends on what u wanna do with it really.. With the whipple I'd drop compression down to 9/1. Get ur heads ported or sell em get aftermarket if u really wanna make power. Either way the stock heads won't become a restriction till ur up there.. Honestly I'd just get h beams 6.125 with arp2000 bolts.. And any forged piston in a 3.905 bore. Use the stock crank and have everything balanced. New bearings of course (which I have the machine shop spec out once it's polished and that's pretty much it for the bottom end.. U can re use ur stock lifters with some hardened pushrods 7.4 and just do valve train stuff depending on ur cam. Other than that it's just gaskets. I stay away from aftermarket gaskets but to which it's own.

It's really not that bad as long as u find a place that doesn't try to bend u over on the labor. That's where it adds up. Biggest two things u gotta worry about with these motors is ring gap and torq on all the bolts... ( rods, mains etc) like I said any questions just contact me man.. I'll help u out as best I can.

I wouldnt go to 9:1, id stay 9.5:1 for 93 octane or go 10.5:1 with E85.

That's a big blower for a 5.7. Once u start with big boost you'll have to back the timing off with a higher compression.. 9/1 should be good for when the boost is jacked up. But yes u will make more power on lower boost with the higher compression. All depends on how much psi he wants to go

That's a big blower for a 5.7. Once u start with big boost you'll have to back the timing off with a higher compression.. 9/1 should be good for when the boost is jacked up. But yes u will make more power on lower boost with the higher compression. All depends on how much psi he wants to go

Exactly, hes gotta find out what the efficieny range the blower is and what is the best rpm to spin it that wont turn it into a heat pump.

Stay 346 or move to a 383? It's a 5k mile per year car, with typically ~3 roadcourse events. I'm not into drag racing.

i wouldnt stroke it with FI. id forge it and boost the shit out of her. that blower can easily make 15lbs with the over driven balancer and a couple steps down in drive pulleys.

thats why i say forge it at 9/1 with a big blower cam. boost her to 15lbs and youll be up there. youll have to play with pulley combos on the dyno to see what she'll like.