View Full Version : Widening stock wheels and running MAP trailing arms. Couple questions...


NeverSatisfied02
07-17-2012, 01:38 AM
Hey fellas,
I posted awhile back asking some questions about this but now I'm getting ready to actually have it all done so i need to get all my info together. I just bought a pair or MAP trailing arms for the added clearance. I'll be sending two stock wheels off to have them widened ASAP and then I'll take them to have the whole set powdercoated black.

Questions...

-What company do y'all suggest I use for the widening? (weldcraft seems to be a commonly used place with great feedback from the google search I did)

-I know 10" will work already (from TommyComptons thread) but is that the widest I can go with the MAP's or could I fit a 10.5" width back there?

-Read some things about MAP's not coming with bushings. If thats true, what bushings are y'all using?

-I plan to roll my fender lips regardless but with the fender lips rolled and on H&R springs, will I be able to run any wider than a 295/35/18 out back?

-Are 5mm spacers needed?

-What other things to I need to do in order to make all of this work??


I just want to make sure i widen the wheels to the maximum acceptable size. I want to run the biggest tire possible without any clearance issues. I plan to run a minimum of a 295/35 out back since TommyCompton is already doing it on 10" wide stockers but if I can squeeze bigger since he says he had a little room to work with, a 305 or 315 sure would be nice! I read Tommy's thread and there is a lot of good info in there!! Reason I'm still asking questions is because he mentioned a few other things he did while widening (BMR toe rods, adjustable end links, etc) and I'm curious if all of this is needed because if so, I'll need to get all of this stuff in advance so i don't get stuck in a bind without something i need when I'm installing everything.

Tommy, if u could chime in with some more info... THAT WOULD BE GREAT!!

Anyone else with experience with this, I'd appreciate your input and suggestions as well.

Thanks in advance fellas! :cheers:

Link to Tommy's original thread on this subject...

http://ls1tech.com/forums/cadillac-cts-v/1391773-stockers-widened-powder-coated-pics.html

psychobillycaddy
07-17-2012, 04:43 AM
Widening - I dont know of anyone local that does the widening. Closest is WoA in Dallas so your paying for shipping no matter what. May as well go with someone with credibility like Weldcraft so you get it done right.

I dont know about 10.5. You may be pushing it. If you want we can take a close look at mine with 10x19 and get an estimate

As for tire size, your not getting any more contact area on a 10 inch rim beyond 295. I think 295 is like 11 1/2 inches wide. You can probably make the 305 fit but it may look funny on the sidewalls. Kind of like putting balloons on. I never tried it though just an opinion

Are you sure youll need to roll them? How much are you dropping it? H&R are a 1 inch drop in the rear. Your not going to be any wider on the outside of the rim unless you put spacers on. Im dropped 1 inch in the rear and I dont rub with 19x10

You shouldnt need the spacers with 10".

BMR toe rods are a PIA to get aligned. Most alignment guys will tell you it cant be done as they dont have the capacity to figure it out. I took mine to southwest alignment on Richmond. He even said its a horrible design. Just be prepared and buy some fender washers before you start the install to fill in the gaps. Call me and ill explain if you get them.

MAP's, TIC bushings, Rims, and your done. I think I may have had to put some fender washers in with my MAP arms. I can go out and look under the car tomorrow and let you know

There is a lot of info on the MAP bushing issues and TIC solution over on the CF. Just google it and read the drama as it unfolds. Eventually someone gets TIC to make the bushing that saves the day.

VeryWhiteDevil
07-17-2012, 08:41 AM
pretty sure anything bigger than 10" and you start running into clearance issues in other areas.

I am widening a set of accessory rims myself. I am going with Eric Vaughn. like 50.00 more expensive, but you get a new section of rim and one weld. google him and you will see his quality work. I personally like the one weld vs. the two weld design.

NeverSatisfied02
07-17-2012, 11:18 AM
Psycho... Yeah man, I figured I'd be shipping regardless. I know there are a few companies that offer widening. I just wanted to get a quality job for a good price if that's possible. Looks like average price is $250 a wheel. I was hoping a 10.5 would fit but I'm not sure it's worth chancing it. I'd hate to go 10.5 and have them not work but I'd assume with a 5mm spacer, a 10.5 width should be ok. But yeah, looking at yours and getting an estimate is prob a smart idea. You're right on the tire size. I'm just dreaming of running a nasty wide tire out back but whether the rim is 10 or 10.5, a 295 will still fit it nicely and look wide due to the rims width.

As far as my drop, I have a set of H&R's with MM spacers in the garage. I'm pretty sure they go lower than an inch drop in the rear. Many have posted that they actually tuck the stock 245/45 just a tad in the rear. I'd imagine that's prob 2" or so of drop. I also have a new set of GC coilovers that my buddy has and won't be using and he wants to trade me them for my ported and fully polished LS2 TB and some fast fuel rails I have. Fair trade for both of us so I may go ahead and do that and run the ground control kit over the H&R's. Haven't decided yet. But... I think from what I've seen posted here, the H&R's are lower in the rear unless u order a shorter length spring or mod the perch on the GC kit. I plan to roll the fender regardless. My old car dropped on stock wheels with a 275/40 out back rubbed the passenger side lip. I figured I'd need the spacer for anything over 10". I'll pass on the tow rods. No need to spend money on something that will make things more difficult. Lol if u get a chance, peek under your car and let me know what u had to do to make everything work. Thanks again for the link to those bushings!!

Verywhitedevil... Thanks again for that radiator cover. Got it on the car now. As far as one weld or two, that doesn't matter much to me as long as its a quality job. No one will ever see the welds anyway with the size of the brakes and the stock wheels only being 18's. But... One weld does sound inpressive.

furbe
07-17-2012, 12:25 PM
Eric Vaughn Machine in Monrovia Ca. He did work for me 30 years ago
You wont find better quality
As Devil said, eric uses a brand new wheel half
And one weld to attach.
And he been doing it a long time

NeverSatisfied02
07-17-2012, 01:31 PM
What's the advantage of him using a new inner wheel half and what does he charge per wheel to widen them?

tommycompton
07-17-2012, 01:53 PM
10.5 no way unless you run a bigger wheel spacer and longer lugs. Then if your lowered forget about it. Even with the 5mm spacer and a 10" rim you have to do some clearancing which I posted about. It,s a fine line for spacing under there. I think you could get a way with a 6-8mm spacer for more clearance on the inside. 295 is about as good as it gets if you are lowered. At stock ride hieght you could run a bigger spacer and have wider tires sticking outside the fender. Toe rods aren't needed of course, I just wanted them for more rigidness.

tommycompton
07-17-2012, 01:56 PM
Also psycho may be right about his after market rims, but you are talking about widened stockers, totally different offset.

NeverSatisfied02
07-17-2012, 02:31 PM
Ok so 10" wide with a 295 on a lowered car is the limit? I'm fine with that. I'd rather have the stance I want with the car sittin low rather than the wider tire at stock height.

And that's true. I didn't think about that.

tommycompton
07-17-2012, 02:39 PM
Pretty much anything beyond that your on your own. I probably wouldn't lower the rear more than 1 1/2" too.

NeverSatisfied02
07-17-2012, 02:43 PM
I know the GC kit only lowers the rear about an inch as they come. In order to go lower, you gotta remove the lower perch or order a pair of shorter coil (8" instead of 10").

Anyone know how much H&R's actually lower the rear?

vmapper
07-18-2012, 10:11 PM
I thought I read somewhere MAP trailing arms were not needed for clearance on widening stock rims? Oh wait.. your lowered.. probably why. Stock height not needed.

I had copied this from somewhere... so its someones info: As I was going to do this... but all that money to go from 275 to 295... phh forget it.

Since people are asking, here is the info
I went through weldcraft wheels.
http://www.weldcraftwheels.com

I also have MAP trailing arms to allow for wider tires/rims
There are some listed on Ebay
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MAP-T...Q5fAccessories

Here is my post on cadillacowners it covers it pretty well.
http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums...e-10-rims.html

I also have 5mm wheel spacers just in case from
http://wheeladapter.com/




STOCK HEIGHT - Factory Widened Rims 18x10
Widen wheels to 10"
Install 295's on Wheels
Install Wheel/Tire
Enjoy added traction

NeverSatisfied02
07-18-2012, 10:48 PM
Sweet! Thanks for all the info bud!! But yeah... 275-295... isnt a big gain for the $$$ spent.

itsslow98
07-18-2012, 11:34 PM
Weldcraft does amazing work at rim widening. My buddy had his OEM Cobra R wheels widened to 10.5 and they came back perfect.

Also 305/35/18 is perfect on a 10" wheel.
http://i1065.photobucket.com/albums/u383/itsslow98/cobra13.jpg

NeverSatisfied02
07-19-2012, 12:18 AM
SHOWOFF!!! LOL Nice cobra man! 305/35/18 is what i'd really want to run

itsslow98
07-19-2012, 12:35 AM
Id rather have a tiny bit of bulge on the sidewall to protect the lip of the rim if possible. Id go 305, and those are mickey thompsons which tend to run a little wider then others.

NeverSatisfied02
07-19-2012, 03:30 AM
I just hope a 305 will fit on the V. :/

vmapper
07-19-2012, 10:29 AM
I thought i read somewheres 305 will not happen on stock rim widened. 295 was it.
Aftermarket only or spacers used.

Yea 305 would be sweet... just a dream.
I saw a mustang the other day with 315's... and a new camaro with 315s... just not fair. (and i doubt they have much screwing around to do to get there)

NeverSatisfied02
07-19-2012, 10:36 AM
Yeah, it's bullshit. The V should clear a larger tire than a 295 and to think it comes with a 245 stock with a 275 being much wider and pretty much the biggest size that will work on a stock wheel. These things should have come stock with a 275 and should clear a 315.

I'm debating on whether it's worth spending the money just to get an extra 1.5" outta the rim to run a slightly wider tire. All things considered, MAP arms, widening the wheels, tires, etc, that's like $1100 or so. I have the map arms now. I'd just have to have the wheels widened, powdercoated and then buy the 295's but man... Is it really worth it for that little difference?

vmapper
07-19-2012, 12:44 PM
It is bull, 245 is pansy.

Well, I would love to know if it IS indeed possible to stuff 305 or 315 in the v without having to run custom rim and fender flares.

I never liked reading these.. made me sad. :(
http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/2004-2007-cadillac-cts-v-performance/196648-guys-10-5-rims-there-cars-6.html

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/2004-2007-cadillac-cts-v-general/190904-cts-v-trailing-arms-more-rubber-37.html

NeverSatisfied02
07-19-2012, 01:34 PM
Judging off those threads, 295 on a 10" wheel is the biggest that will fit. Maybe a 305 with a spacer if ur lucky....

NeverSatisfied02
07-30-2012, 11:28 AM
When widening the wheel, the face of the wheel is not affected right? Just wondering if I should send them to be widened now before I send them to Powdercoat or if it really makes a difference? I assume the section that will be widened won't even be seen anyway so I'd assuming coating now and widening a little later if I decide it's 100% necessary would be ok right?

I was all about widening but now I'm thinking I wanna get the car lowered and see the stance on my current 275/40 and 255/40 combo at stock width. 10" in the rear would be nice but spending $500 plus shipping fees both ways just seems like a healthy amount considering I'll only be able to run a 295/35/18 out back.

den_99_GTX
07-30-2012, 01:11 PM
I would get them widen 1st before you send them out for poweder coat. They might f-up the surface on accident when they weld. I think you can run a 305/35/18 on the back with spacers. I am running 10in wide 295/35/18 w/ GC (lowered) with out spacers. I plan to put a set of 305/35/18 MT drag radials on this week w/ 5mm or 10mm spacers.

I do have MAP trailing ARMs, widen accessory wheels and longer wheel studs.

NeverSatisfied02
07-30-2012, 03:08 PM
Ok. Let me know if the 305 fits with the spacer. If it does, I'll prob go ahead and widen them after all. And post pics please!

I bet the widened accessory wheels look sweet.

VeryWhiteDevil
07-30-2012, 05:05 PM
even 275/40/18 look better and perform better on a 10" rim.

NeverSatisfied02
07-30-2012, 05:19 PM
even 275/40/18 look better and perform better on a 10" rim.

Yeah, thats true. I just dont know if its worth the $700 or so i'd be spending to get that extra 1.5" out of the wheel.

den_99_GTX
08-02-2012, 10:08 PM
My 305's fit without a spacer. I have about 1/4 inch clearance and I am lowered all the way on the Ground Control setup.

NeverSatisfied02
08-03-2012, 04:01 PM
My 305's fit without a spacer. I have about 1/4 inch clearance and I am lowered all the way on the Ground Control setup.

Sweet! Got any pics of this?? I'd like to see it! Also, what 305's are they? I know some brands run more narrow than others.

VeryWhiteDevil
08-03-2012, 08:47 PM
this is what I am shooting for with my widened accessory rims. 305's

NeverSatisfied02
08-03-2012, 09:06 PM
I took my wheels to Powdercoat today to get them done semi-gloss black. Ill have them back next week. Gonna get the car lowered on those first and see where the stance is clearance wise on the current 275/40's. Then I'll still have my 4 extra stockers to mess with. Perhaps widen a pair of those and coat them too when I'm ready or just throw a pair on in stock form temporarily while I send the black pair off to be widened. Either way, my Powdercoat is a quality job and the guy hooks it up for cheap. Just don't wanna spend the $700 it's gonna cost for widening and shipping the pair both ways at this moment but prob will soon.

B_ROCKS_IT
05-23-2013, 01:07 PM
bump!


So any updates on this, looks like a 305 should work if I get the wheels widened to 10" and keep stock ride height? Can I widen to 10.5?


Any updates?

den_99_GTX
05-24-2013, 09:49 PM
I don't think you can widen your rims to 10.5 without modification to the parking brake.

FuzzyLog1c
05-24-2013, 10:05 PM
I don't think you can widen your rims to 10.5 without modification to the parking brake.

Can I have some of whatever you're smoking?

By the way, here are the old pictures that I posted comparing clearances between the stock trailing arms and the Killernoodle trailing arms.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/QuicksilverG4/CTS-V/OEM_vs_Killer.jpg
Splitscreen

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/QuicksilverG4/CTS-V/TrailingArm_OEM.jpg
OEM trailing arm

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/QuicksilverG4/CTS-V/TrailingArm_Killer.jpg
Killernoodle trailing arm

B_ROCKS_IT
05-25-2013, 09:59 AM
Nice thanks fuzzy....

den_99_GTX
05-27-2013, 09:00 AM
"Puff Puff Give"

My setup is different from yours. I'm running MAP trailing arms and widen stock accessory wheels to 10in. I think your wheels has a different offset than the stock wheels. I will try to get some pics when I have time.

psychobillycaddy
06-17-2013, 08:01 PM
bump!


So any updates on this, looks like a 305 should work if I get the wheels widened to 10" and keep stock ride height? Can I widen to 10.5?


Any updates?

I got an update. I widened mine to 10 and put MT 305/35 18s on them. No rubbing with MAP arms. Im not slammed though. Just 1.5 lowered

B_ROCKS_IT
06-18-2013, 03:24 AM
I got an update. I widened mine to 10 and put MT 305/35 18s on them. No rubbing with MAP arms. Im not slammed though. Just 1.5 lowered

Thank you! :hail:

IdriveaV
06-18-2013, 11:22 AM
I got an update. I widened mine to 10 and put MT 305/35 18s on them. No rubbing with MAP arms. Im not slammed though. Just 1.5 lowered



Whatttt. Looks like im getting my wheels widened.
So widen wheels and longer studs, I can run a 305 without rubbing?
I already have map trailing arms.

vmapper
06-18-2013, 02:27 PM
longer studs are not required from what I have read.

psychobillycaddy
06-18-2013, 11:11 PM
I didn't need longer studs. I didn't use any spacers.

IdriveaV
06-19-2013, 08:13 AM
Alright sweet, anyone know the best place to get wheels widened?

JD03Cobra
06-19-2013, 09:08 AM
Alright sweet, anyone know the best place to get wheels widened?

Heard many good things from this company.

http://www.weldcraftwheels.com/

NIKDSC5
06-19-2013, 11:43 AM
I didn't need longer studs. I didn't use any spacers.

:pics: