Street Racing & Kill Stories - Ls1 Trans Am vs. 1979 Firebird

Did a few runs with friend a little while ago. Thought I would share with you.

His mods are Ls6 intake, Ported 853 heads, Ms3 cam, long tubes, cut-out, 4000 stall, A3, 3.42 gears, and the last time it was tuned was when it was a bolt only car

My mods are 355 SBC, Heads, cam, intake, long tubes, 3600 stall, A3, and stock 2.73 gears :barf:

The first 3 runs were 40-45 to 125-130
The last 2 were 10-15 to... well it doesn't even matter since they were not even close

Yes, it looks like I'm getting ready to drop a deuce in the video. I didn't have my sunglasses and it was real bright out
http://youtu.be/mwM9bxOZpkk
Enjoy

Good runs, that looked like a blast (minus the end).

Your car looks like it runs strong, and track or dyno numbers for it?

Good runs, that looked like a blast (minus the end).

Your car looks like it runs strong, and track or dyno numbers for it?
Thanks! It's always good fun. It was just for expired plates, no big deal

The car made 368rwhp/342rwtq (mustang dyno) in second gear on a 100 degree day. So I've been told they might be a little low. No track times because of the rear end gears and tires basically making the car shit it pants til I get rolling and close to the powerband

you have a very strong running firebird..u need slick and do a dig run..and gears

Love the late '70 cars! But damn, your car pulls nice! Good runs and daytime vids ftw!

Strong running Firebird. Yes, a nice gear and tire would do the car a lot of justice.

I always wonder, what's the point in the whole "filmed in Mexico" bit/BS all the time?

you HAVE to get either 3:42's or 3:73's.

Nice runs!

Strong running Firebird. Yes, a nice gear and tire would do the car a lot of justice.
I always wonder, what's the point in the whole "filmed in Mexico" bit/BS all the time?
That is the plan :D
So it can't be used as incriminating evidence
you HAVE to get either 3:42's or 3:73's.
3.73's WILL be back there... with a 275 tire... and some nitrous :drive:
you have a very strong running firebird..u need slick and do a dig run..and gears
It will happen. Just have all kinds of other things that are claiming my funds right now.

awesome runs. thanks for the vids!

That is the plan :D
So it can't be used as incriminating evidence

3.73's WILL be back there... with a 275 tire... and some nitrous :drive:

It will happen. Just have all kinds of other things that are claiming my funds right now.

i had a built 350 in an old truck once. it had 2:73's. when i swithced to 3:73's no word of a lie it dropped at least a full second in the 1\4.

have any more pics of the car?

i had a built 350 in an old truck once. it had 2:73's. when i swithced to 3:73's no word of a lie it dropped at least a full second in the 1\4.
I'll keep my fingers crossed. I know it will really wake the car up and not fall on its face after a gear change
have any more pics of the car?
These are older (when it was a v6) and it doesn't look this good anymore
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g315/1979bird/26600.jpg

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g315/1979bird/2658.jpg

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g315/1979bird/373.jpg

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g315/1979bird/2661-4355.jpg
awesome runs. thanks for the vids!
Thanks everyone!

nice looking 2nd gen

nice daytime vids. cool car, i have a soft spot for 2nd gen pontiacs, esp the body style like yours.

so your buddy has all that work and is running the stock tune? wtf?

Like the color too.

Hmm. Let's see if my ears still work after a 10 year drought of not working on a SBC: 10 to 1 compression, 238 duration .550" flat tappet either hydraulic or a tight lashed solid cam on a 110 LSA, roller rockers, 12 deg. initial timing. Headers aren't 'tinging' like Hookers and the flange and bends look like my old headers so they Summit headers? 2 chamber 3" flowmaster?

What kind of heads to pull that kinda power? Dart?

Thing runs great btw! Having gone from 2.73 gears to 3.42 in my '78 Z28 I can attest to the huge seat-of-pants increase in power you will see. Should be enough to keep the LS1 from coming around you. Oh yeah, I'd pick up a base model V6 manual brakes master cylinder if I were you, they worked great even with the bigger '81 disk brakes I put on mine. Awesome pedal feel with totally daily driverable pedal effort.

3.73's WILL be back there... with a 275 tire... and some nitrous :drive:

Make it a drag radial when you throw some tires on there :nod:

nice looking 2nd gen
It's not that nice in person, but thanks man
nice daytime vids. cool car, i have a soft spot for 2nd gen pontiacs, esp the body style like yours.
Thanks, I like videos where you can actually see what is going on
so your buddy has all that work and is running the stock tune? wtf?
I guess I should say it's not a stock tune. It was last tuned when it was a bolt on and M6 car.
Hmm. Let's see if my ears still work after a 10 year drought of not working on a SBC: 10 to 1 compression, 238 duration .550" flat tappet either hydraulic or a tight lashed solid cam on a 110 LSA, roller rockers, 12 deg. initial timing. Headers aren't 'tinging' like Hookers and the flange and bends look like my old headers so they Summit headers? 2 chamber 3" flowmaster?

What kind of heads to pull that kinda power? Dart?

Thing runs great btw! Having gone from 2.73 gears to 3.42 in my '78 Z28 I can attest to the huge seat-of-pants increase in power you will see. Should be enough to keep the LS1 from coming around you. Oh yeah, I'd pick up a base model V6 manual brakes master cylinder if I were you, they worked great even with the bigger '81 disk brakes I put on mine. Awesome pedal feel with totally daily driverable pedal effort.
Very, VERY close. I am impressed you could pick that up from the video. Compression is 10.5:1. The cam is a solid roller with the lash at .016/.018, 236/242 @.050 .564/.570 lift and then I put 1.6 roller rockers on. The LSA is 110. Timing is locked out at 35 degrees. Headers I actually got for free. They are a set of hedman headers. Exhaust is 3 inch x pipe with 3 inch Magnaflow bullets and dumped at the axle. The heads are older 195cc trick flows with 64cc combustion chambers.

I really can't wait to rebuild the rear end and make the car MUCH more fun. My first gear runs up to about 60-65 mph, and second gear is good to 120-130 mph, third gear... well I know what the math says but I am never going to find out. I hope the gear change will help keep the cars momentum going.

This car was actually a v6 but it does have power brakes. How much weight do you think it would save? I am also ditching the power steering for a manual steering rack.

His mods are Ls6 intake, Ported 853 heads, Ms3 cam, long tubes, cut-out, 4000 stall, A3, 3.42 gears, and no tune



Ported heads, donkey dick cam, headers, intake, and no mention of injectors on a bolt on tune?

He's lucky the damn car is still running. Tell him to stop dicking around and get injectors and a tune. I bet he is running out of fuel by 4800rpm.

Make it a drag radial when you throw some tires on there :nod:
Oh I'm all over that. Planning on some 28" Mickey Thompson ET streets.

Oh I'm all over that. Planning on some 28" Mickey Thompson ET streets.

Hells yes :devil:

Ported heads, donkey dick cam, headers, intake, and no mention of injectors on a bolt on tune?

He's lucky the damn car is still running. Tell him to stop dicking around and get injectors and a tune. I bet he is running out of fuel by 4800rpm.
I wasn't clear before. He had it tuned when its was a bolt on, M6 car. No tune since the ported heads and cam. The injectors are still stock but he has some 42 lb injectors ready to go in.

I wasn't clear before. He had it tuned when its was a bolt on, M6 car. No tune since the ported heads and cam. The injectors are still stock but he has some 42 lb injectors ready to go in.

Forgot to say nice kill and I saw you mention that so I had went back and edited the post too ;)

My car was tuned when it was aftermarket cam and bolt ons, but different cam and ported heads was still a HUGE change. He will not believe the difference it should make.

Forgot to say nice kill and I saw you mention that so I had went back and edited the post too ;)

My car was tuned when it was aftermarket cam and bolt ons, but different cam and ported heads was still a HUGE change. He will not believe the difference it should make.
Nice death? Just making everything as accurate as possible. He will be getting a tune very soon. It is at the top of his list. I'm sure I'll need more to keep up with him after the tune.

my 2nd gen

http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt11/pinchnloaf/75ta002.jpg

http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt11/pinchnloaf/75ta003.jpg

http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt11/pinchnloaf/75ta005.jpg

:headbang: Much nicer than mine! I like very much, yes

thanks! it's good shape but not great. don't want it to be perfect anyway

Very, VERY close. I am impressed you could pick that up from the video. Compression is 10.5:1. The cam is a solid roller with the lash at .016/.018, 236/242 @.050 .564/.570 lift and then I put 1.6 roller rockers on. The LSA is 110. Timing is locked out at 35 degrees.

This car was actually a v6 but it does have power brakes. How much weight do you think it would save? I am also ditching the power steering for a manual steering rack.
Guess I wasn't that close, half point of compression difference is alot AND it wasn't a flat tappet cam but a roller. :(



I assume you already know this info, but just in case you don't:

As far as the timing goes, "locked out" refers to filling in the slot in the plate that both the mechanical advance and vacuum advance rotate inside the distributor - it's the plate the rotor bolts onto : that point plus the initial idle timing is your total timing. Some guys don't use vacuum advance, and it looks like yours isn't hooked up either. Vacuum advance does help part throttle driveability and fuel efficiency...

Those Trick Flow 195 heads are fairly efficient, I'm thinking you didn't get your timing set on a dyno because I would have put money on it being around 32 degrees where best power is obtained (learned from experience). 36 degrees actual total timing with 10.5 compression even on your big cam setup (big cams help tame knock due to pressure bleed off from the cam overlap) it should be knocking! Or are you running race gas mix?

BTW a great rule to go by: the more efficient the heads, the less timing the engine will need. Old crap GM heads were so bad that I've seen a few well modded small blocks need 38 degrees for full power, while a setup like my current LS2 based 402 likes 26 degrees and some other LS engines even like 24 degrees. Helped do a 367sbc build (400 block, 350 crank- a 8,200rpm combo) with top of the line trick flow heads that liked 30 degrees.

Tossing the power brakes only saves a couple pounds, but it enables you to clean up the engine bay and also not require a vacuum canister to keep brake pressure up. I'd personally go that route again in a heartbeat.

I also had manual steering but damn that was hard work with any kind of normal sized tire on the front. So I installed the close ratio power steering rack out of an '81 Z28 (1980 and up Z28's had the much sought after close ratio) Personally I'd say thats only viable when you are running a big n little setup where the tiny front tire has less resistance to low speed turning.

Nice death? Just making everything as accurate as possible. He will be getting a tune very soon. It is at the top of his list. I'm sure I'll need more to keep up with him after the tune.

My bad I was watching at work without sound, almost looked like you lifted before he came around. Either way good runs man!

Not bad against an untuned MS3 car.

Guess I wasn't that close, half point of compression difference is alot AND it wasn't a flat tappet cam but a roller. :(

I assume you already know this info, but just in case you don't:

As far as the timing goes, "locked out" refers to filling in the slot in the plate that both the mechanical advance and vacuum advance rotate inside the distributor - it's the plate the rotor bolts onto : that point plus the initial idle timing is your total timing. Some guys don't use vacuum advance, and it looks like yours isn't hooked up either. Vacuum advance does help part throttle driveability and fuel efficiency...

Those Trick Flow 195 heads are fairly efficient, I'm thinking you didn't get your timing set on a dyno because I would have put money on it being around 32 degrees where best power is obtained (learned from experience). 36 degrees actual total timing with 10.5 compression even on your big cam setup (big cams help tame knock due to pressure bleed off from the cam overlap) it should be knocking! Or are you running race gas mix?

BTW a great rule to go by: the more efficient the heads, the less timing the engine will need. Old crap GM heads were so bad that I've seen a few well modded small blocks need 38 degrees for full power, while a setup like my current LS2 based 402 likes 26 degrees and some other LS engines even like 24 degrees. Helped do a 367sbc build (400 block, 350 crank- a 8,200rpm combo) with top of the line trick flow heads that liked 30 degrees.

Tossing the power brakes only saves a couple pounds, but it enables you to clean up the engine bay and also not require a vacuum canister to keep brake pressure up. I'd personally go that route again in a heartbeat.

I also had manual steering but damn that was hard work with any kind of normal sized tire on the front. So I installed the close ratio power steering rack out of an '81 Z28 (1980 and up Z28's had the much sought after close ratio) Personally I'd say thats only viable when you are running a big n little setup where the tiny front tire has less resistance to low speed turning.
Thanks for the reply, it is always a good thing to learn some more. Some of these things I did not know.

The timing I set at 35 degrees. I am not sure if they changed the timing or not when I left the car at a local shop to be tuned. He is pretty meticulous but never mentioned adjusting the timing. I will have to look into that.

As far as knocking goes I haven't heard any at all. I run just pump 93 octane. Like I said above I'll check with the guy who tuned my car if he adjusted the timing cause now I am curious.

Yes, I will be running a big and little set up as soon as it is the budget.

My bad I was watching at work without sound, almost looked like you lifted before he came around. Either way good runs man!
The first run I think I did. The third run I lifted after he got 1.5 cars out or so. Thanks though, it's all in good fun

Your friend get a ticket?:p

Your friend get a ticket?:p
Just for expired plates. Just thought it was funny that we were just tearing up the streets... If the cop only knew what he just missed.

D79..great runs, loved it, but was it me or was your 'bird not upshifting as quick as possible..i had a problem with my '79 as well...it just seemed stuck in a lower gear...maybe it was just my perception of the race...love your car and that color.

It's not that nice in person, but thanks man

{snip}

I really can't wait to rebuild the rear end and make the car MUCH more fun. My first gear runs up to about 60-65 mph, and second gear is good to 120-130 mph, third gear... well I know what the math says but I am never going to find out. I hope the gear change will help keep the cars momentum going.

This car was actually a v6 but it does have power brakes. How much weight do you think it would save? I am also ditching the power steering for a manual steering rack.

At least yours is all one color :)

I've got a 3.23 in mine now, that will be swapped out for a 3.73 this weekend. When I replaced my stock front brakes with Wilwood 12.19" Dynalites, the car probably lost 20 pounds of unsprung weight off each corner. BIG difference in handling.

Without me in it, the car weighs around 2950 (factory non-AC with considerable weight reduction). Stock weight was 3465.

One bit of advice: don't ditch the factory PS box without doing some research. A "performance" factory PS box is 10:1 (2.5 steering wheel turns, lock to lock). The best bolt-in manual box will be something like 18:1 and most are 24:1 - you'll feel like steering an ocean liner. This is fine for drag racing, but if you'd like to take corners without having to plan way in advance, you might think twice about this.

D79..great runs, loved it, but was it me or was your 'bird not upshifting as quick as possible..i had a problem with my '79 as well...it just seemed stuck in a lower gear...maybe it was just my perception of the race...love your car and that color.
It is probably just the video. It has a FMVB and just takes FOREVER to pull through a gear with 2.73's. Thanks man!
At least yours is all one color :)

I've got a 3.23 in mine now, that will be swapped out for a 3.73 this weekend. When I replaced my stock front brakes with Wilwood 12.19" Dynalites, the car probably lost 20 pounds of unsprung weight off each corner. BIG difference in handling.

Without me in it, the car weighs around 2950 (factory non-AC with considerable weight reduction). Stock weight was 3465.

One bit of advice: don't ditch the factory PS box without doing some research. A "performance" factory PS box is 10:1 (2.5 steering wheel turns, lock to lock). The best bolt-in manual box will be something like 18:1 and most are 24:1 - you'll feel like steering an ocean liner. This is fine for drag racing, but if you'd like to take corners without having to plan way in advance, you might think twice about this.
Personally, I like cars that are a little rough. They look tough and that they aren't there to win a beauty contest. They are simply there to do one thing, go fast... unless the car is slow then it doesn't work that way. :lol:

I actually just weighed mine a few weeks ago. 3300 with out me in it. I did remove the factory A/C and the stock fuel tank for a 12 gal fuel cell.

It has power steering now but the belt never stays on. I know you look real funny pulling into a parking spot turning your wheel 3 or 4 times. The car will be used for drag racing and Sunday drives.

I gotta get me one of those. You guys with the late '70s birds can go which ever way you want with them, and I love how they look when brought back up and finished paint. I would love to have a black one with the gold rims (gold edition-I think?) and drop an LS powerplant in her. I'd do the phoenix in gold but ghosted on, and some dark DARK purple/plum added to the black. Either way nice cars (even the one with the mismatched colors :P) and great runs. Thanks for posting, it was nice to see something different.

Tossing the power brakes only saves a couple pounds, but it enables you to clean up the engine bay and also not require a vacuum canister to keep brake pressure up. I'd personally go that route again in a heartbeat.

I also had manual steering but damn that was hard work with any kind of normal sized tire on the front. So I installed the close ratio power steering rack out of an '81 Z28 (1980 and up Z28's had the much sought after close ratio) Personally I'd say thats only viable when you are running a big n little setup where the tiny front tire has less resistance to low speed turning.

FWIW, this is this of weight saving mods I have. Going to manual brakes didn't save much, but it REALLY made a difference on accessibilty for the driver side of the engine bay. The brakes also communicate better (no numb PB booster killing the feel):

aluminum front bumper and mounts (saved 40 pounds)
plastic/aluminum radiator (saved 15 pounds)
LS1 replacing SB 305 (saved 125 pounds)
T56 + light flywheel and clutch replacing TH350 and TQ converter (50 pounds)
Wilwood Dynalite front brakes (40 pounds, unsprung)
Aluminum drive shaft (20 pounds)
Wilwood manual brake master cylinder (10 pounds)
LTH + new exhaust (30 pounds)
Fiberglass hood and trunk lid (100 pounds)
Lexan glass all around (50 pounds)
Corbeau fixed back racing seats (30 pounds)