Generation IV Internal Engine - Beware of LSX Long blocks!!!!

This is not a bash on the block itself even though there are def short comings that have been documented and addressed on here and on other forums. I'm also not here to say it's their fault of my fault I'm just laying out the facts on what has happened with my build so far and what Gm's stance is.

Anyway so I had a shop around me install my lsx454 into my trailblazer ss. Its been doccumented if you really want to read up on the build but long story short I didn't reuse anything from the LS2 it got all new accessories the longblock was obviously new along with all the bells and whistles. The trans is a stock 4l70e that was built with basic internal upgrades nothing crazy and a cirlce d 3200. Now this is where the red flag is and the point of this thread. A week and a half after getting my trailblazer on the road with 2 oil changes within that short period and a close eye out for anything that might turn into a problem. On my way to work, which is a 40 mile drive so the motor had time to warm up and reach operating temp, I cam to a stop close to work and oil pressure started to drop drastically till my low oil pressure stop engine light came on. started moving againg trying to pull over to the side of the road and the oil pressure shot back up to 25 psi. I thought maybe it was a fluke but then on my way home as I got close again with the engine at operating temp oil pressure dropped at idle and this time it kept doing it every time I came to a stop. I got the TBSS towed to Tune Time Performance in Lakewood NJ at this point. At first glance and with the documented epic fail of the first shop who installed the engine and reading up on people with similar problems it sounded like a pick up tube oring issue. The engine at cold start would show 40psi and operate fine as soon as the motor warmed up it would lose oil pressure at idle. I wasn't to worried I'm thinking Matt and the guys will bang it out in a day no problem. Well I call up to see how they made out and I get the bad news, copper in the oil pan. Once they looked into it we discovered it was the thrust bearing. I took the TBSS right around the corner to Pine Belt Chevy also in Lakewood. Before they even fully looked into the situation they poped my hood and said this isn't gonna be covered. I explained that this was a LSX 454 crate motor and that it isn't just a regular OEM motor. They called down their head of the warranty dept and he said he's going to have to get a hold of their regional GM warranty rep and get him involved. So this guy is voice for big GM and is in touch with people that make big decisions all the time. So after him coming down looking at my setup and hearing what's wrong, mind you they didn't take anything apart just looked at it on a lift they said that they waren't going to warranty the motor which had less than 500 miles on it because of drum roll please........it has a aftermarket TC on it. So they sell a motor that you can put into a bunch of different chasis some that don't even come with a LS motor that require using aftermarket TC's to make it work with their trans setup they already have but by putting one you void your warranty. Now the guy who blew the hole in the side of the cylinder that was a shakey issue cause they did say boost or spray will void your warranty that's kinda common with engines, but saying that a aftermarket or better yet non stock GM TC will void a warranty on a motor that is built to be put into modded setups so I find this shocking. So anyway thought I would inform anyone out there thinking about buying a LSX crate motor it's not worth the money spend the money and have a good shop build you something custom because between the noted core shift issues and the horrible warranty honoring claim record they have with these motors. That is all

wow man.... that sucks.. hope you get it sorted out

damn.............................................. ..............

that aint right.

i will remember.......... LSX Long blocks for all the wrong reasons.

thanx for the heads up & good luck with it all!

Yeah it's all good I mean we're fixing it life goes on. Not the first spun bearing wont be the last. It makes a lot of power very low in the power band but def a lot of baggage with these motors.

Thats some B.S. I would be pissed. I would keep going up the chain of command. Worth a try.

No not worth my time. I don't want dealership parts installers and warranty dodgers working on my car but you guys knowing how they are and that these motors are no bueno is worth it to me.

Yep.. keep pressing the issue.. take it higher.. email people call people go mailbox their house throw a brick through their window something will happen lol

Btw if it wasn't clear in my first post I'm NA withh all new OEM parts.

Usually when the dealership doesn't install the parts, they won't warranty it. That built trans or aftermarket converter may have been the culprit, or even a shotty install. I'm not surprised, and honestly I don't blame them.

Yep.. keep pressing the issue.. take it higher.. email people call people go mailbox their house throw a brick through their window something will happen lol

Thing is by going this route it could take MONTHS to get them to pony up and supposedly they have it written in some warranty file online that changing the TC voids GM crate motors. Even though these performance crate motors were produced with a different end user in mind than a OEM crate motor.

Lawyers are scum........but go get one.

.

Usually when the dealership doesn't install the parts, they won't warranty it. That built trans or aftermarket converter may have been the culprit, or even a shotty install. I'm not surprised, and honestly I don't blame them.

It's a Circle D trans that ran fine with the same trans on the stock LS2 with no problems and the flex plate met SFI specs and was picked up threw Jegs specifically for that motor and that trans. I don't see how you as a company that sells performance crate motors can say that putting a aftermarket TC on a afternarket engine voids the warranty. That's my big problem. Like if this had just been a rod bearing or blown headgasket something that had nothing to do with the trans or TC I would still be beat because of it. That just sounds shady to me. Anyway that's another reason Matt at Tune Time is who I decided to have fix the motor because I know it will get done right and whatever needs to get done to prevent this from happening again he'll let me know vs the dealer who after months of emails phone calls and arguing MIGHT change their minds doubtful would just throw another crate motor in there and call it a day.

Mind you the dealer only knows about the thrust bearing because I told them not because they looked. They didn't even drop the pan and look at the damage.

If you want something done right, you gotta do it yourself lol. That sucks a big one though man. Definitely shouldnt have trusted that LSx. Theres plenty of blocks out there that are much stronger and reliable as well as being lighter. Hindsight is 20/20 eh...

Makes sense to me. If the converter for some reason is slightly out of spec, it will trash the thrust bearing. Why should GM warranty an engine that was destroyed by an aftermarket converter?

That's like blaming a tire company for a bad wheel when it destroys the tire.

If anything, I would be pulling the converter if that's what caused the problem and going after the company that made it.

It's a Circle D trans that ran fine with the same trans on the stock LS2 with no problems and the flex plate met SFI specs and was picked up threw Jegs specifically for that motor and that trans. I don't see how you as a company that sells performance crate motors can say that putting a aftermarket TC on a afternarket engine voids the warranty. That's my big problem. Like if this had just been a rod bearing or blown headgasket something that had nothing to do with the trans or TC I would still be beat because of it. That just sounds shady to me. Anyway that's another reason Matt at Tune Time is who I decided to have fix the motor because I know it will get done right and whatever needs to get done to prevent this from happening again he'll let me know vs the dealer who after months of emails phone calls and arguing MIGHT change their minds doubtful would just throw another crate motor in there and call it a day.

Faulty installation of a transmission, clutch, or converter kills thrust bearings all the time, it's not like it isn't related. You already said some shady shop did the install. GM could easily say that it was a faulty install coupled with out of spec aftermarket parts that caused the converter/flex plate assembly to push forward on the crank, causing excessive wear on the thrust bearing, which is very likely what happened.

I wouldn't be so upset with GM, I'd be pissed at the original shop.

I'm with KCS on this. I'd take a good hard look at the torque converter and tranny to see if anything is out of spec/damaged there. Especially before I took the time to fix the motor and reinstall. I've had my share of trouble with GM warranties, but it looks like they're not trying to screw you here. Just covering their own ass. Good Luck with the rebuild.

How did Tune Time determine it was a thrust bearing? Did they drop the pan? From your post it sounds like that they probably think it is a thrust bearing and you say you immediately took it down the street to a Chevy dealer, did you drive it there or tow it? And sorry I'm with GM on this one you can't warranty a shade tree mechanic install, I don't understand if people have the $$ to buy this engine why they try and skimp on on Joe the half ass mechanic install. That us where the "you can pay me now or you can pay me later" saying comes in. Sorry

I started reading the thread and was about to post something about the converter install taking out the thrust bearing but I see it's been mentioned. My cousin recently had an issue with an engine he built for a customer eating up the thrust bearing. My cousin did the build and installed the engine and everything ran fine until the owner decided to change tq converters. The motor was coupled to a TH400 and the original converter used the spacer but this guy bought a new converter already made for an LSX/TH400 and didn't need the spacer but installed it anyway. He ended up ruining the block with one 1/4 mile pass. He wanted to blame the motor but in the end the problem was his converter install.

The trans prob didn't cause the thrust problem the lack of oil did. I have not seen a torn up thrust cause the oil pressure to start at 40the cold and drop to 0 when warm.

Look at your oiling system and was the engine prelubed prior to starting .

Tim

The first shop dropped the ball but it is by no means a back yard half ass shop. They have a 5 bay setup with lifts ASE master techs and have been in business for years but they are not aftermarket guys and I think were just over their heads with this one. The thing that confuses me though is they installed the trans and the coverter in like a day onto my stock ls2 I ran it for a short period of time with no problems and then went had to swap out the stock ls2 for the LSx454. So I don't know how they installed it right once and then wrong the second time. The TC will def be getting swapped out and Tune Time who has a lot more experience with my application will be installing the new one.

To answer the question about how did Tune Time know it was the thrust bearing yes Tune Time dropped the oil pan which involves taking the whole front end apart and they inspected the engine from underneath. That's probably why the dealer didn't even mess with it. Listen I'm 100% with you guys that something drivetrain related put pressure on the crank and caused that bearing to go I understand that, my problem is that even if I had a 100000000 dollar top of the line TC installed by Tune Time in the first place and say it was just a rod bearing and not the thrust bearing IT WOULD NOT BE COVERED.

Bottom line they are selling aftermarket engines encouraging people to mod them and then saying a aftermarket TC will void your warranty no matter if it caused the problem or not just like if you put any kind of forced induction on the car. There is actually a list they told me of parts that will void your AFTERMARKET engine warranty. Call me crazy but if you sell a aftermarket engine unless what you put on caused the problem or contributed to something else that caused the problem I don't think you should be beat when something goes wrong. I'm not on hear looking to get even or bash and it's not that big of a deal to me where I"m on a GM witch hunt but I do think that the TC voiding the warranty even if it's not related to the damage of the engine is worth letting everyone know about and that it's not worth the risk cause we all know that just about everyone with this engine has a aftermarket TC.

Who did you buy the lsx from? It makes a difference when it comes time for warranty.

I think there is one thing missing here. Can anybody name a torque converter that GM makes that can go behind his engine and not void the warranty? None that I know of. So the OP was fucked from the beginning and anybody else for that matter, who buys one of these crate motors.

I would of asked the dealer what converter wouldn't void my warranty if thats the case.

Edit: I just found a GM Performance Parts TC, its only 2500 stall speed, but who wants that?

Tough lesson sorry to hear.

In my experience with GM crate engines LSX or any other for that matter they require a complete tear down and blueprinting as soon as you get one and then they work great. Theres always something not quite right with them if you pull them apart and even if they dont fail straight away they dont last long unless you spec them out yourself ( or have a reputable shop do this ) which speaking of which.... most reputable shops should know this needs doing after past crate engine experience..... Most of these engines are made in Mexico too.... just sayin

Who did you buy the lsx from? It makes a difference when it comes time for warranty.

Jegs so it wasn't some random online company. If I would have bought it from GM and had them install it, which lets be honest they wouldn't have done at a regular dealership, then MAYBE I would have still got it covered. Like 87 said it's a lose lose because no one is going to use a GM TC on a engine this radical. I'll make sure to post what really cause the problem and what the solution was and how it works afterwards. My main focus now is on if the crank is ok if not that's another 1200 which will hurt but it is what it is.

Most converters have a little free play, if you take the bolts out it should slide fore and aft showing that bolting the bell housing up to the engine isn't causing the front pump cover to load the converter in to the crank flange. If the length of the converter from the snout to the flex plate bolt bosses (or the center hub around the locator plug that registers in the end of the crank) is longer than the gap between the bolt bosses on the flexplate to the front pump the thrust bearing would be first to go. So pull the converter bolts loose and see if it slides back or not.

Never mind I changed my mind from bashing "ASE" shop comment

:lurk:

Hey SLIPPI, sorry to hear what happened this don't happen to couch potatoes, hope you come out of this with the desires of your heart, usually you don't have a great victory until you have a great fight, unfortunately good things just don't come easy, but make having them so much sweeter.

Hey SLIPPI, sorry to hear what happened this don't happen to couch potatoes, hope you come out of this with the desires of your heart, usually you don't have a great victory until you have a great fight, unfortunately good things just don't come easy, but make having them so much sweeter.


Thanks man. This won't keep me down long I cant wait to get this thing back on the street again

See that sucks. You should have to tear down a brand new crate motor that is meant to be put in and run..... That's the point of buying a crate motor. I mean if that wasn't the case send it to me in pieces, so I can have it built right.



Tough lesson sorry to hear.

In my experience with GM crate engines LSX or any other for that matter they require a complete tear down and blueprinting as soon as you get one and then they work great. Theres always something not quite right with them if you pull them apart and even if they dont fail straight away they dont last long unless you spec them out yourself ( or have a reputable shop do this ) which speaking of which.... most reputable shops should know this needs doing after past crate engine experience..... Most of these engines are made in Mexico too.... just sayin

See that sucks. You should have to tear down a brand new crate motor that is meant to be put in and run..... That's the point of buying a crate motor. I mean if that wasn't the case send it to me in pieces, so I can have it built right.


Probably because it's not true - not ONE person I know of with a crate LS engine has had to tear it apart or it to fail within a few hundred miles :rolleyes:

However, on the other, I have had NOTHING but problems when I buy 'built' engines from builders who are supposedly the best.

Crate engine is the way to go for cost, timeliness and reliability imho.