Automotive News, Media & Press - Ready for another 1le? GM misses the mark again.

So yeah its a $3,500 option that leaves the car weighing 26lbs more than the standard ss. Re-geared, new shocks, a strut tower brace and a front splitter are the only real differences? Oh and you get red calipers and a zl1 steering wheel. GM doesnt get it. The mustang gets a real track car, we get a heavier Camaro SS? WTF?

http://www.caranddriver.com/news/2013-chevrolet-camaro-1le-news

:gay::gay:

Well it will be better then the current SS but still trail the boss even with its new goodies hell they didn't even add better brakes WTF!!!!! That was one of the "1le's" major upgrades as a "track" car damn you Chevy step it up with the next gen.....:devil:

So yeah its a $3,500 option that leaves the car weighing 26lbs more than the standard ss. Re-geared, new shocks, a strut tower brace and a front splitter are the only real differences? Oh and you get red calipers and a zl1 steering wheel. GM doesnt get it. The mustang gets a real track car, we get a heavier Camaro SS? WTF?

http://www.caranddriver.com/news/2013-chevrolet-camaro-1le-news

The 1LE's get the following upgrades:

Dual Mode Exhaust
3.91 Gears
Strut Tower Brace
Upgraded ZL1 Wheel Bearings
Upgraded Half-Shafts
Upgraded Tow Links
Upgraded Fuel Pump w/additional pick-ups
Front Splitter
Unique Spoiler to 1LE
Upgraded Tires (285's all round/goodyear supercar tires on lighter ZL1 rims)
Tranny fluid cooler
Upgraded Sway Bars
Short-Throw Shifter
Upgraded Shocks and shock mounts
ZL1 Steering wheel


Get all that on a 1SS/base audio/no sunroof car and you'll be at or just below 3,800 pounds. Not too shabby at all considering some fourth gens (a much smaller car mind you) can weigh in at 3,600ish lbs when fully loaded.

It's the dumbasses who order the 1LE cars with leather, premium billion speaker sound system, and a body kit that are missing the mark IMO. This package shouldn't even be available on a 2SS IMO.

The Boss 302 gets:
Upgraded brembo brakes (still not as good as the standard 5th Gen SS brakes)
Upgraded power (14 more HP than the 1LE/SS, and acutally a reduction in peak torque from the standard GT)
Upgraded shocks
Dual Mode Exhaust
Short Throw Shifter
Electric power steering (standard on all new camaros)
Optional Recaro Seats
245 front/ 285 rear tires


The biggest advantage for the mustang it seems is the power upgrade. Other than that, they both pull over 1G on a skid pad and are priced about the same. They're both impressive, and on paper, it seems you actually get more "unique-ness" and upgrades with the 1LE over a boss302.

If i had to pick im going with the boss,in sales the camaro has done great,but for us it kinda blows chunks, all we can hope is that the next gen makes the changes we all want, there not bad cars but we are simple we dont ask for much,but in this market when people hear 1le option they think they have bought the next best thing lol,we just know better

The biggest advantage for the mustang it seems is the power upgrade. Other than that, they both pull over 1G on a skid pad and are priced about the same. They're both impressive, and on paper, it seems you actually get more "unique-ness" and upgrades with the 1LE over a boss302.

more uniqueness than a 750 car run Boss Laguna Seca? price is unimportant. LS has downforce the standard Boss doesnt.

Electric power steering (standard on all new camaros)

that is standard on all V8 mustangs as well so both cars are closer in comparison than some people think. still the BOSS is lighter and makes more power but less tq which its gearing helps make up for. the BOSS's upgraded shocks are adjustable so that will help dial in the car for those who want to get the most out of the factory setup, but from what i've been told and read the camaro has better brakes out of the 2 cars.

Doesn't the 1le also have a regeared transmission for closer ratios?

The Boss is a lot more car it seems although with the 1LE package being $3500 you can't expect too much. And you're really discounting the engine modifications on the boss to say "o it only picks up 14 hp" ported heads, cams, intake, forged internals are not something to be taken lightly

gm always fucks up. if you want in on the muscle car war you better buy a ford or a dodge. shit thats sad isnt it.. a dodge is nicer than a damn chevy.

gm always fucks up. if you want in on the muscle car war you better buy a ford or a dodge. shit thats sad isnt it.. a dodge is nicer than a damn chevy.

Depends what you're going for IMO. The Camaro is going to have an advantage in the turns and probably braking and is equal or better on interior.

Exterior the Challenger wins and the 392 is quicker in the 1/4, but they are also more difficult to mod from what I've seen. Hell I think they just now cracked the pcm before that people were reverting to the old style computer systems just to tune them.

The Challenger is also a butt load more expensive. The difference in purchase price alone is enough to throw a bunch of bolt ons or a supercharger on the Camaro.

I wouldn't get too exercised over 26lbs. I would if it didn't handle a bit better than the normal SS.

Will this be it or will they create a proper Z28 for this generation?

Check out this link....http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=11&ved=0CDIQqQIwCg&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.topspeed.com%2Fcars%2Fcar-news%2Fcomparison-chevrolet-camaro-1le-vs-ford-mustang-boss-302-ar132541.html&rct=j&q=mustang%20boss%20vs%20camaro%20ss&ei=P7gHUJWeNZGg8QTH95ylBA&usg=AFQjCNGC_jiN9nt1zcHdflnVI-4fPNNe1w

The biggest advantage for the mustang it seems is the power upgrade. Other than that, they both pull over 1G on a skid pad and are priced about the same. They're both impressive, and on paper, it seems you actually get more "unique-ness" and upgrades with the 1LE over a boss302.

You're kidding, right? The Coyote's valvetrain is competely reworked for the Boss...not to mention countless changes to the undercarriage. Trust me, there's a much bigger difference between a GT and a Boss 302 than there is between an SS and a 1LE SS. The Boss and standard GT are very different animals...just read any of the online write-ups comparing the two. Pretty much all the upgrades except for the rear end on the Camaro are just better quality bolt-on parts. Not so with the Boss, even moreso if you take the LS model into consideration.

Bottom line, the Boss is a completely separate model...the 1LE is just an optioned SS.

Will this be it or will they create a proper Z28 for this generation?

I doubt they would be able to shave enough weight off the current chassis so hopefully they wait until the next chassis.

ill give GM credit for trying.

i admit id want my 1le loaded up so probably couldnt afford one. :(

ill give GM credit for trying.

i admit id want my 1le loaded up so probably couldnt afford one. :(

bolting on parts from the bin isnt trying ;)

Well that sucks. I was hoping for atleast 450hp and a 50-100 pound weight loss on the 1le. I think the Dual mode exhaust,electric steering and 3.91 gear will make it a 12 second car though.

If it was $3500 I think it is a very good value according to the link in post #13 gears, close ratio tr6060, and rims and tires. However the 1st link says a base model will come in just under 40k. So thats a 5 to 6 grand more. But still thats a ton of expensive upgrades.

Well that sucks. I was hoping for atleast 450hp and a 50-100 pound weight loss on the 1le. I think the Dual mode exhaust,electric steering and 3.91 gear will make it a 12 second car though.

The close ratio trans and the gears has to make a big difference for a roll race.

bolting on parts from the bin isnt trying ;)

what would you have them do? what would you like in this car and how much are you willing to pay?



im not saying GM couldnt have done more but they have to keep pricing reasonable and it still has to be streetable.

The close ratio trans and the gears has to make a big difference for a roll race.

im really curious as to what people were expecting. while i wish this car was lighter most buyers dont want a stripped down purpose built drag car.


thats just how it is.

Check out this link....http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=11&ved=0CDIQqQIwCg&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.topspeed.com%2Fcars%2Fcar-news%2Fcomparison-chevrolet-camaro-1le-vs-ford-mustang-boss-302-ar132541.html&rct=j&q=mustang%20boss%20vs%20camaro%20ss&ei=P7gHUJWeNZGg8QTH95ylBA&usg=AFQjCNGC_jiN9nt1zcH dflnVI-4fPNNe1w

Jeezus, that was about the worst comparison article I've ever seen. They basically compared two cars on paper, extrapolated a shit load on how they would perform, and then awarded which car they liked better. Who the fuck cares? When someone actually takes these two cars to a track and records the results and numbers...then we can have a comparo worth talking about. This touchy, feel-y, subjective journalism crap really just doesn't cut it when you're comparing high power performance cars.

Jeezus, that was about the worst comparison article I've ever seen. They basically compared two cars on paper, extrapolated a shit load on how they would perform, and then awarded which car they liked better. Who the fuck cares? When someone actually takes these two cars to a track and records the results and numbers...then we can have a comparo worth talking about. This touchy, feel-y, subjective journalism crap really just doesn't cut it when you're comparing high power performance cars.

LMAO. Nice magazine article :gay:. In the real world, the Boss302 is in a different performance class than the sticker packaged LE. :owned:

I think the Dual mode exhaust,electric steering and 3.91 gear will make it a 12 second car though.I agree...but in all fairness, even the base SS is already a 12 second car, the quickest bone stock one having gone 12.5s with plenty of others in the 12.8/12.9 range. :nod:

I agree...but in all fairness, even the base SS is already a 12 second car, the quickest bone stock one having gone 12.5s with plenty of others in the 12.8/12.9 range. :nod:

Hell, even the retard magazine drivers were doing 12's in 2009-2010, and like I said earlier, many of those where the fully loaded cars with all the extra bells/whistles/auto/weight. A lot of the initial cars even had the optional 21" Gm wheels :bang: Now, take into account the upgrades standars on the 2012's, and add on the 1LE option, and I wouldn't be surprised to see low 12's in a properly driven 1LE car.

Nevertheless, it still amazes me how little credit people give to GM even with the advancements they've made :rolleyes:

Anythings better than nothing.

So we are comparing an RPO code option for an SS to the Boss vs GT and including the over-priced LS Boss as well?

Lets keep it apples to apples please. 1LE should be compared to the GT w/track package. Same approach from both manufacturer's. Take your standard V8 model and make it handle better. Boss is apples to oranges. Face it, you probably won't see a 5th gen model to compare to the Boss (which I think is a fantastic car - minus a chinese transmission).

I almost believe that because you guys shoot straight to Boss comparisons automatically gives the 1LE significant credibility over Ford's track package GT.

Remember...1LE is an option, not a completely different model!

That's a valid point that I didn't realize. But is that argument still valid if GM says the 1le's target competitor is the BOSS? I guess the true test will be to rum on the same track that the BOSS be the SS on by 2 secs to see how it stack up against it.

On an earlier post I commented on the fact that Chevy didn't upgrade the brakes and since then I've read different opinions on them some say there great others say there lacking can anyone find hard info about which is the truth?

gm always fucks up. if you want in on the muscle car war you better buy a ford or a dodge. shit thats sad isnt it.. a dodge is nicer than a damn chevy.

The market disagrees with you. The Dodge sells the least of the three, not to mention it is the heaviest and the slowest of the three as well.

I just can't get over how tall the Challenger is. Looks like a big boat from the rear.

The market disagrees with you. The Dodge sells the least of the three, not to mention it is the heaviest and the slowest of the three as well.

I just can't get over how tall the Challenger is. Looks like a big boat from the rear.

while i think challeners look ok theyre overpriced and imo the least modern looking out of all three competitors. THEY REALLY DONT LOOK much different than its original version. sales are ok but far from great considering it offers three engines. earlier versions had a crappy interior also. cheap, shelf parts looking junk.

but isnt a 6.4 srt faster than a 5th gen?

The 1le seems like a good car to me. I can't wait to see a vid of it handing the boss it's ass on a road course.

what would you have them do? what would you like in this car and how much are you willing to pay?



im not saying GM couldnt have done more but they have to keep pricing reasonable and it still has to be streetable.

simple things like a better tune, a better camshaft/intake (like the boss), better exhaust manifolds, sfc's, weight loss (its a big heavy car... theres places to take weight from), better brakes (go further and maybe be GM and develop some sort of reliable low cost carbon ceramic).

could even do interesting bits like having the ZR1 twin plate clutch as an option, have dry sump as an option, essentially, you could make the car as close to the old COPO as possible but still retain the initial goal by doing some of the basic suggestions from above.

simple things like a better tune, a better camshaft/intake (like the boss), better exhaust manifolds, sfc's, weight loss (its a big heavy car... theres places to take weight from), better brakes (go further and maybe be GM and develop some sort of reliable low cost carbon ceramic).

could even do interesting bits like having the ZR1 twin plate clutch as an option, have dry sump as an option, essentially, you could make the car as close to the old COPO as possible but still retain the initial goal by doing some of the basic suggestions from above.


that seems kind of expensive.

simple things like a better tune, a better camshaft/intake (like the boss), better exhaust manifolds, sfc's, weight loss (its a big heavy car... theres places to take weight from), better brakes (go further and maybe be GM and develop some sort of reliable low cost carbon ceramic).

could even do interesting bits like having the ZR1 twin plate clutch as an option, have dry sump as an option, essentially, you could make the car as close to the old COPO as possible but still retain the initial goal by doing some of the basic suggestions from above.

Already a COPO Camaro out their, and as options go, I think the single RPO 1LE adds a lot to the SS.

Remember 1LE SS vs GT w/track package - NOT Boss.

Athough I have my doubts about how much better the 1LE will perform over an SS, Chevy is claiming a sub 3 minute lap around VIR. That's 3 seconds faster than the BOSS.

1le vs boss is the proper comparison. A SS with fe4 already had the 5.0 track pack covered.

Already a COPO Camaro out their, and as options go, I think the single RPO 1LE adds a lot to the SS.

Remember 1LE SS vs GT w/track package - NOT Boss.

those are NOT real COPO cars. the idea of COPO was ordering a street car/race car/whatever with a myriad of options that were not officially available. can you drive a modern COPO on the street? nope. can you do anything but drag race it? not without a LOT of work. can you order the car with anything you want in it? hahahahahahahahaha, no.

ultimateorangess, if you have a core package that includes a select set of things that drastically change the driving experience for the better, it would not be. the core would be brakes, suspension/chassis bits, and cam/intake. the other stuff would be optional. you could have a perfectly price 1LE right in between the SS and the ZL1 (oddly enough, the ZL1 was the RPO code for the all aluminum 427 that Don Yenko put in his cars and other COPO cars).

dont engine parts have to be tested and certified?

also keep in mind it has to be priced in a similar range as its competition.

The Boss 302 gets:
Upgraded brembo brakes (still not as good as the standard 5th Gen SS brakes)
Upgraded power (14 more HP than the 1LE/SS, and acutally a reduction in peak torque from the standard GT)
Upgraded shocks
Dual Mode Exhaust
Short Throw Shifter
Electric power steering (standard on all new camaros)
Optional Recaro Seats
245 front/ 285 rear tires

You conveniently forgot about including the fact the Boss gets a high-revving forged engine.

Athough I have my doubts about how much better the 1LE will perform over an SS, Chevy is claiming a sub 3 minute lap around VIR. That's 3 seconds faster than the BOSS.

Yeah but they also claimed 11.9's on street tires with the ZL1 and we know how that turned out.

As for the guy that thinks the 1le should be a COPO that would be even further off because a COPO car was only built to go fast in a straight line where this car is built to run on a track/auto cross.

1.V6 Camaro=dd
2.SS Camaro=fun dd
3.SS 1le Camaro=fun dd with a taste for the track
4.ZL1 CAMARO=does everything fast but could be a little faster
5.COPO Camaro=factory built single digit drag car

If one of these choices can't satisfy your needs then your to f"ing picky since most of us on here mod are cars anyways and judging by the sales the general public is pretty happy with these choices also. Oh you could also take a look at ford or dodge but please no imports...lol:cheers:

dont engine parts have to be tested and certified?

also keep in mind it has to be priced in a similar range as its competition.

could do as little as a ported ls3 intake to developing a whole new intake. the cam could be a new cam or one they know will work from another engine. this is GM, they are the masters of pinching pennies.

could do as little as a ported ls3 intake to developing a whole new intake. the cam could be a new cam or one they know will work from another engine. this is GM, they are the masters of pinching pennies.

that they are. im all for more power but i think GM was thinking more gearing would not only help with acceleration but also with handling by keep revs up.


do you think porting a stock intake and upgrading to a slightly more aggressive cam would be more beneficial than better gearing?

those are NOT real COPO cars. the idea of COPO was ordering a street car/race car/whatever with a myriad of options that were not officially available. can you drive a modern COPO on the street? nope. can you do anything but drag race it? not without a LOT of work. can you order the car with anything you want in it? hahahahahahahahaha, no.

ultimateorangess, if you have a core package that includes a select set of things that drastically change the driving experience for the better, it would not be. the core would be brakes, suspension/chassis bits, and cam/intake. the other stuff would be optional. you could have a perfectly price 1LE right in between the SS and the ZL1 (oddly enough, the ZL1 was the RPO code for the all aluminum 427 that Don Yenko put in his cars and other COPO cars).

I know exactly what the original COPO cars were, thanks. And all the options on COPO cars in the late 60's were "officially available" just not advertised.

I still don't agree that the 1LE should be compared to the Boss, it's still an SS model Camaro.

i think GM was thinking more gearing would not only help with acceleration but also with handling by keep revs up

I'm very interested to see how the gearing changes affect the car.

that they are. im all for more power but i think GM was thinking more gearing would not only help with acceleration but also with handling by keep revs up.


do you think porting a stock intake and upgrading to a slightly more aggressive cam would be more beneficial than better gearing?

Does a different gear ratio really cost GM more money in the first place. That should of been an option from the SS in 2010. Its not like they put extra gears in the car...just different ratios.

Does a different gear ratio really cost GM more money in the first place. That should of been an option from the SS in 2010. Its not like they put extra gears in the car...just different ratios.

If its "better" it's gonna cost more regardless of what it cost them.

If its "better" it's gonna cost more regardless of what it cost them.

Exactly, which adds up to a weak sauce excuse of a 1le. Different gear ratios for the trans doesnt cost them more than the ss. Different gear ratios for the diff doesnt cost them more than the ss. Different tires likely cost GM less than $600 to upgrade as thats what the price difference is at Tirerack. Again the wheel themselves are just different, not better.

You get a higher capacity fuel pump, and coming from GM only god knows what that means. You get beefier half shafts, which even the Camaro SS needs, again probably doesnt cost them shit over the standard one anyways. (just an assumption here). You get better shocks and a strut tower brace from gm. Aside from gearing, a monkey could build a better 1le.

Sorry but I think you can thank the current dumbass gen5 camaro owners that :swing: on everything camaro related for this car. Im guessing lowering springs, swaybars, strut tower brace and tires put a standard ss right on par with the "1le". Sorry, but the 1le should just be individual SS options.

Exactly, which adds up to a weak sauce excuse of a 1le. Different gear ratios for the trans doesnt cost them more than the ss. Different gear ratios for the diff doesnt cost them more than the ss. Different tires likely cost GM less than $600 to upgrade as thats what the price difference is at Tirerack. Again the wheel themselves are just different, not better.

You get a higher capacity fuel pump, and coming from GM only god knows what that means. You get beefier half shafts, which even the Camaro SS needs, again probably doesnt cost them shit over the standard one anyways. (just an assumption here). You get better shocks and a strut tower brace from gm. Aside from gearing, a monkey could build a better 1le.

Sorry but I think you can thank the current dumbass gen5 camaro owners that :swing: on everything camaro related for this car. Im guessing lowering springs, swaybars, strut tower brace and tires put a standard ss right on par with the "1le". Sorry, but the 1le should just be individual SS options.

So let me get this straight...

You believe that to change the manufacturing internals of a transmission is free (let's not even begin to count R&D).
You think the lighter wheels are just different and not better (obviously no clue on rotational mass).
Tires I won't argue, we all know the big 3 get huge discounts to equip their cars with certain brands.
You think upgraded half-shafts cost no more than the stock SS's.
You think shocks and strut-braces are also no extra cost.

Let me add this up, transmission and rear end gearing = free. Lighter wheels = free. Half-shaft upgrade = free. Shocks and strut brace = free.

I don't know where you shop to upgrade your car with mods, but I have definitely been shopping at the wrong vendors. Could you please direct me to the place where I can add all these parts to my car for nothing...

So let me get this straight...

You believe that to change the manufacturing internals of a transmission is free (let's not even begin to count R&D).
You think the lighter wheels are just different and not better (obviously no clue on rotational mass).
Tires I won't argue, we all know the big 3 get huge discounts to equip their cars with certain brands.
You think upgraded half-shafts cost no more than the stock SS's.
You think shocks and strut-braces are also no extra cost.

Let me add this up, transmission and rear end gearing = free. Lighter wheels = free. Half-shaft upgrade = free. Shocks and strut brace = free.

I don't know where you shop to upgrade your car with mods, but I have definitely been shopping at the wrong vendors. Could you please direct me to the place where I can add all these parts to my car for nothing...

I would think that a member of LS1Tech, a site geared toward modding cars, would know the difference between upgrades after a vehicle is sold ($$$) and upgrades made in production, where parts are bought on a larger scale (less $$$). I agree those upgrades aren't free, but to think they'd add more than $1-2K to the car is pretty ridiculous. The only things I see there that would cost more are the wheels, trans, and strut brace. Everything else would replace existing parts for only a marginal price increase.

I'm sure most of the cost come from the magnetic shocks.

So let me get this straight...

You believe that to change the manufacturing internals of a transmission is free (let's not even begin to count R&D).
You think the lighter wheels are just different and not better (obviously no clue on rotational mass).
Tires I won't argue, we all know the big 3 get huge discounts to equip their cars with certain brands.
You think upgraded half-shafts cost no more than the stock SS's.
You think shocks and strut-braces are also no extra cost.

Let me add this up, transmission and rear end gearing = free. Lighter wheels = free. Half-shaft upgrade = free. Shocks and strut brace = free.

I don't know where you shop to upgrade your car with mods, but I have definitely been shopping at the wrong vendors. Could you please direct me to the place where I can add all these parts to my car for nothing...

A mm6 is tr6060 with different gear ratios, as in same amount of gears, different ratios. Nothing magical about that.

The rear gets a new gear ratio...as in the original gear doesnt go in the car...it gets a different gear ratio...as in same amount of parts and same quality.

Nobody ever said the wheels were lighter or that lighter wheels were not better. Id wait for actual weights of them to appear. They are based on zl1 wheels, they are not zl1 wheels.

The shocks no doubt cost more. The strut tower brace cost some too, but to think this is realistically a $3,500 bargin is stupid. :cheers:

I'm sure most of the cost come from the magnetic shocks.

1LE does not get the MRC package.

GM is also not a charity. They are in the business of making money, not upgrading cars for cost.

I would think that a member of LS1Tech, a site geared toward modding cars, would know the difference between upgrades after a vehicle is sold ($$$) and upgrades made in production, where parts are bought on a larger scale (less $$$). I agree those upgrades aren't free, but to think they'd add more than $1-2K to the car is pretty ridiculous. The only things I see there that would cost more are the wheels, trans, and strut brace. Everything else would replace existing parts for only a marginal price increase.

I agree, you show me one vehicle with upgrades that are free of charge from any manufacturer.

After looking over the parts list it seems like a good price since we would spend as much if not more to add those parts and we would run the risk of losing the warranty(for those who care) but at the same time I'm glad it's just a ss option because I feel a 1le "model" would be a let down when compared to a boss and I'm not buying the vir sub 3:00 crap but I hope I'm wrong and these little changes makes a big difference. Only time will tell...:drive:

anyone have what GMs cost is on a 1le option?


from what ive seen 5th gens arent really marked up that high. yes, of course as you load them up they are but from what ive read an upper 30k 2ss isnt marked up a ton.

GMs job is to be profitable but like anything else its our choice to buy one or not and this option has me interested.

After looking over the parts list it seems like a good price since we would spend as much if not more to add those parts and we would run the risk of losing the warranty(for those who care) but at the same time I'm glad it's just a ss option because I feel a 1le "model" would be a let down when compared to a boss and I'm not buying the vir sub 3:00 crap but I hope I'm wrong and these little changes makes a big difference. Only time will tell...:drive:

warranty is also a factor. having that is valuable. for those who want it which i sure would.

You conveniently forgot about including the fact the Boss gets a high-revving forged engine.

Thats the upgraded power I mentioned. I didn't really mention the specs of any of the upgrades, just the areas.

I agree, you show me one vehicle with upgrades that are free of charge from any manufacturer.

I gladly would, but they don't break things down that way. Changing gear ratios in a truck adds a new package, as in you can't ONLY do a gear ratio change.

But if you are seriously going to sit there and tell me that it costs more for GM to install a 3.91 in the rear of that car than it costs to install a 3.70...

But if you are seriously going to sit there and tell me that it costs more for GM to install a 3.91 in the rear of that car than it costs to install a 3.70...

Have you ever worked in a manufacturing plant? More specifically a mass production plant? Have you ever visited a GM assembly plant? If so, you would or should understand how a minor change can have major impacts on the assembly process and more importantly the bottom line.

***EDIT: FYI - A gear change on the Mustang was extra even when it was not part of the track pack. A gear change on the Ram trucks also costs more.

i picked up a 2013 Camaro brochure today at the chevy dealership and it said there is an optional sunroof for the 1le package /rage on that

I gladly would, but they don't break things down that way. Changing gear ratios in a truck adds a new package, as in you can't ONLY do a gear ratio change.

But if you are seriously going to sit there and tell me that it costs more for GM to install a 3.91 in the rear of that car than it costs to install a 3.70...

Have you ever worked in a manufacturing plant? More specifically a mass production plant? Have you ever visited a GM assembly plant? If so, you would or should understand how a minor change can have major impacts on the assembly process and more importantly the bottom line.

***EDIT: FYI - A gear change on the Mustang was extra even when it was not part of the track pack. A gear change on the Ram trucks also costs more.

Finally someone who gets it. Felt like I was :bang: all day long.

There is much more than just the cost of the part to changing the way a car is assembled, and this is true for complete units such as transmissions also.

Example:

Gear ratio changes in the TR6060. Let's say the gears are the same cost. However, in the plant, you now have be able to differentiate between which TR6060s have which gears. Then you have to be able to track these different transmissions so the consumer (GM in this case) doesn't end up with a bunch of M6's with the wrong gear ratios in 1LE or ZL1 cars.

So if you believe that all this setup, install, tracking and shipping all adds up to zero cost to GM, then I don't know how else to explain these types of things to you??

Why dont different interiors cost more? I mean GM has to keep track of what car gets what color interior.

Gotta love how this car gets actual functional upgrades and people bitch up a storm, but nobody seems to notice how big of a gimmick the 98-02 WS6 and SS cars are, in fact, most people praise them and prefer them.

Just take a look at used car prices for 98-02 cars. SS and WS6 cars are usually about 50% more expensive than a comperable condition/mileage standard V8 Model, and for what? That's right, a hood, 17" wheels, a lid, a 2mm larger front sway bar (which some experts claim is a mis-match anyway) and a power steering cooler? (yes, there was more options available, the shocks and the exhaust, but those things costed extra and a great mass majoirty of the ws6/ss cars didn't get them)

I, for one, am happy that GM is constantly improving the Camaro. They're listening to the fans and buyers. Better paint, different colors, better suspension, more standard options, more models, new trims, new engines, countless special editions to keep things interesting, as well as a new platform already in the works and it hasn't even been 3 years!

As a car manufacterer, they're doing damn good IMO considering when the 5th gen was originally in the works, they were setting out to compete with a 305hp Mustang and a non-existant dodge challenger.


On a side note:

I get a kick out of the people who think they understand the pricing side of a huge business like this by taking a quick glance at a dollar figure on a webpage. Research & development, demand, supply, quantity, future sale estimations, previous sales data, mark-up for profit (there has to be some, they are a business) and manufacturing costs are just some of the things that help determine a price to consumer. Not just the price of the chunk of metal that the gears are made from :rolleyes: I assure you, GM knows more than any of us do about these kinds of things, and I doubt their business plan is to make billions on screwing their customers on gear pricing for a niche sports-car.

Why dont different interiors cost more? I mean GM has to keep track of what car gets what color interior.

"Finally someone who gets it. Felt like I was :bang: all day long."

Gotta love how this car gets actual functional upgrades and people bitch up a storm, but nobody seems to notice how big of a gimmick the 98-02 WS6 and SS cars are, in fact, most people praise them and prefer them.

Just take a look at used car prices for 98-02 cars. SS and WS6 cars are usually about 50% more expensive than a comperable condition/mileage standard V8 Model, and for what? That's right, a hood, 17" wheels, a lid, a 2mm larger front sway bar (which some experts claim is a mis-match anyway) and a power steering cooler? (yes, there was more options available, the shocks and the exhaust, but those things costed extra and a great mass majoirty of the ws6/ss cars didn't get them)

I, for one, am happy that GM is constantly improving the Camaro. They're listening to the fans and buyers. Better paint, different colors, better suspension, more standard options, more models, new trims, new engines, countless special editions to keep things interesting, as well as a new platform already in the works and it hasn't even been 3 years!

As a car manufacterer, they're doing damn good IMO considering when the 5th gen was originally in the works, they were setting out to compete with a 305hp Mustang and a non-existant dodge challenger.


On a side note:

I get a kick out of the people who think they understand the pricing side of a huge business like this by taking a quick glance at a dollar figure on a webpage. Research & development, demand, supply, quantity, future sale estimations, previous sales data, mark-up for profit (there has to be some, they are a business) and manufacturing costs are just some of the things that help determine a price to consumer. Not just the price of the chunk of metal that the gears are made from :rolleyes: I assure you, GM knows more than any of us do about these kinds of things, and I doubt their business plan is to make billions on screwing their customers on gear pricing for a niche sports-car.

The SS and WS6 are more valuable because there are less of them. It doesnt take a rocket surgeon to figure that out.

So if you believe that all this setup, install, tracking and shipping all adds up to zero cost to GM, then I don't know how else to explain these types of things to you??

Also have to recover testing costs to determine the gear sets/shock valving/etc for the package. I think the engineers get paid as well.;)

Apparently some of us have a general understanding of mass producing a product, and some do not.

Fabric covering on seats does not equal mechanical components, FYI.

The SS and WS6 are more valuable because there are less of them. It doesnt take a rocket surgeon to figure that out.

Well then there you guys go, there will be less 1LE cars so thats what makes them cost/worth more! :lol: :bang:

And fyi, there was an absolute shitload of SS and WS6 cars from 98-02...they're not that rare at all. Take a look at 96-97 production numbers for those cars, and they're worth less than a 98-02 counterpart usually, even with lower miles and better condition.

Why dont different interiors cost more? I mean GM has to keep track of what car gets what color interior.

Are you serious? Last time I checked leather cost more than cloth. Suede packages cost more. Recaro seats cost more, bluetooth, navigation, etc. all cost more.

Before you make assumptions you guys really need to spend some time working with an assembly line or mass production process.

Well then there you guys go, there will be less 1LE cars so thats what makes them cost/worth more! :lol: :bang:

And fyi, there was an absolute shitload of SS and WS6 cars from 98-02...they're not that rare at all. Take a look at 96-97 production numbers for those cars, and they're worth less than a 98-02 counterpart usually, even with lower miles and better condition.

Why is the resale of a ss or ws6 higher than a base z28 or ta if they are the same car?

Are you serious? Last time I checked leather cost more than cloth. Suede packages cost more. Recaro seats cost more, bluetooth, navigation, etc. all cost more.

Before you make assumptions you guys really need to spend some time working with an assembly line or mass production process.

Colors, not materials. Read it again. Im not saying the 1le package is a complete ripoff, Im saying it misses the mark of what its supposed to be. Aside from the gearing, you can build it cheaper with aftermarket parts.

Aside from the gearing, you can build it cheaper with aftermarket parts.

Not this argument again...

You can't compare stock vs after market if that's the case then you could buy a v6 and add done suspension and turbos and beat the 1le for less money. See how that just starts a comparasion that could never end? Plus some people really like the fact that it will handle better be more durable and still carry a warranty.:cheers:

Why is the resale of a ss or ws6 higher than a base z28 or ta if they are the same car?



Colors, not materials. Read it again. Im not saying the 1le package is a complete ripoff, Im saying it misses the mark of what its supposed to be. Aside from the gearing, you can build it cheaper with aftermarket parts.

Because people think they are better. About 90% of the average car buyers has no idea what the SS/WS6 package actually includes. The reality is, if everyone knew how big the gimmick was, the prices wouldn't be so high.

And all the upgrades you get for the price of the 1LE package, you couldn't do for just a few grand. I'd love to see you compile a list, and also, mantain factory warranty.

It's like talking to a damn wall with some of these people,its also like talking to a little kid that asks why like a million times. If you do not like the car don't buy it and go write a letter to GM and bitch to them. I personally understand why the car will be more expensive than a regular SS. Many manufacturers are charging an arm and a leg for just stickers and decals. At least they are giving you a car with a handling and appearance package just like the ss/ws6's were. So why can't this car cost more money just like those cars?

SS/WS6 package werent so bad; different and functional ram air/lighter too, trillion times nicer wheels and better exhaust with 3:42 gear...and badges. Power steering cooler sucked though; worst failure, right after the glass stock 10 bolts.

I think this package is nice. You can still order a GM performance muffler/tips if you want. We are in 2012, does anybody think any manufacturer is going to give away cars or options?? Its just getting higher and higher. Get real guys. Nothing is going to be like when it was 14years ago when you could buy a dirt cheap LS1 Z28 that was equal/faster than a stock auto C5...

SS/WS6 package werent so bad; different and functional ram air/lighter too, trillion times nicer wheels and better exhaust with 3:42 gear...and badges. Power steering cooler sucked though; worst failure, right after the glass stock 10 bolts.


3.42 rear gear was in any V8 car with a manual. You could get an SS/WS6 with 2.73 or 3.23 in the autos as well...just like a regular Z28, Formula, and Trans Am

Why is the resale of a ss or ws6 higher than a base z28 or ta if they are the same car?



Colors, not materials. Read it again. Im not saying the 1le package is a complete ripoff, Im saying it misses the mark of what its supposed to be. Aside from the gearing, you can build it cheaper with aftermarket parts.

You need to think of it like this, the marketing/consumer side. GM knows that theres a vast collection of gearheads out there that know their way around a car and how to properly mod them. Those are the guys purchasing the 1SS and removing the 1000s of airbags and modding almost immediately with high end suspension and drivetrain parts.

Then there's the "SS is fast group" that is satisfied with what they have and the performance of them.

GM sits down and says they could appeal to the latter market by offering a semi-"track" package that increases handling and overall performance and has some aesthetically differences as well.

These people arent huge modders past a CAI and mufflers so GM offers them limited upgrades at a cost that is satisfactory to them and to GM. These people don't have the general wherewithall to throw on monotube shocks and hardened half-shafts...if they did, they'd buy the base 1SS and do it along with other stuff that meets their specific tastes.

If you're a modder, why start with a modded car that costs more in which you'd replace those parts anyways? Most start with a clean slate or base slate and go from there, unless they want NAV, stereo, etc etc.

GMs idea is to sell a modded/upgraded car to the public that isn't familiar with modding cars and to offer a good or even better starting point to the people familiar and go from there.

The market for SCCA showroom cars isn't what it once was so they have found creative ways to go with a nostalgic RPO code, 1LE, that still offers a bump in performance in all categories to the general public that aren't die hard track goers.

You need to think of it like this, the marketing/consumer side. GM knows that theres a vast collection of gearheads out there that know their way around a car and how to properly mod them. Those are the guys purchasing the 1SS and removing the 1000s of airbags and modding almost immediately with high end suspension and drivetrain parts.

Then there's the "SS is fast group" that is satisfied with what they have and the performance of them.

GM sits down and says they could appeal to the latter market by offering a semi-"track" package that increases handling and overall performance and has some aesthetically differences as well.

These people arent huge modders past a CAI and mufflers so GM offers them limited upgrades at a cost that is satisfactory to them and to GM. These people don't have the general wherewithall to throw on monotube shocks and hardened half-shafts...if they did, they'd buy the base 1SS and do it along with other stuff that meets their specific tastes.

If you're a modder, why start with a modded car that costs more in which you'd replace those parts anyways? Most start with a clean slate or base slate and go from there, unless they want NAV, stereo, etc etc.

GMs idea is to sell a modded/upgraded car to the public that isn't familiar with modding cars and to offer a good or even better starting point to the people familiar and go from there.

The market for SCCA showroom cars isn't what it once was so they have found creative ways to go with a nostalgic RPO code, 1LE, that still offers a bump in performance in all categories to the general public that aren't die hard track goers.

100% agreed. :cheers:

How you like them apples. A Camaro 1SS with the 1LE package starts at $37,035 it also Laps Virginia International Raceway in 2:58.34 [with Video]



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czFR4sNcNHg&feature=player_embedded#!

/sarcasm i'm sure GM got the Stig to drive and they secretly removed weight from the car

/sarcasm i'm sure GM got the Stig to drive and they secretly removed weight from the car

Yeah, only GM cheats...Ford/Nissan are all 110% legit. :bored:

^^^ GM lost some respect with there claims of 11's stock with the zl1 so some people including myself are a little hesitant to believe anything directly from GM until they can redeem themselves.....:(

^^^ GM lost some respect with there claims of 11's stock with the zl1 so some people including myself are a little hesitant to believe anything directly from GM until they can redeem themselves.....:(

The Ring numbers with the zl1, the zr1 and the cts-v are legit. Plus in the GM video linked they said they used DR's for the time. I dont know how people missed that or are still complaining about it.

^^^ GM lost some respect with there claims of 11's stock with the zl1 so some people including myself are a little hesitant to believe anything directly from GM until they can redeem themselves.....:(Well they may have been lying and they may not've been...but it sure would suck if you were throwing them under the bus for/falsely accusing them of something they didn't even do though. :nono:





Plus in the GM video linked they said they used DR's for the time. I dont know how people missed that or are still complaining about it.No, actually it was emphatically stated afterwards in some of the articles about that day that while they were testing drag radials that day, they DID NOT use them/need them to run those 11.9 second passes.
I wasn't there (I'm assuming that none of you were either) so I can't say if they're telling the truth or not but those 11.9s are being claimed as pure bone stock times.

The Ring numbers with the zl1, the zr1 and the cts-v are legit. Plus in the GM video linked they said they used DR's for the time. I dont know how people missed that or are still complaining about it.
I was reffering more to just the quarter mile times of the zl1 not there ring times.
Well they may have been lying and they may not've been...but it sure would suck if you were throwing them under the bus for/falsely accusing them of something they didn't even do though. :nono:
Your right it would suck but i defened GM when that drag video came out about them using/not using dr's that it would run 11's yet nobody has been able to be to run 11's (stock tires) and I'm sorry but if a car can't run 11's year round then its not a true (IMO) 11 second car it's a if all the conditions are right I can hit 11's just like the gt500 has to have proper conditions to hit 200.




No, actually it was emphatically stated afterwards in some of the articles about that day that while they were testing drag radials that day, they DID NOT use them/need them to run those 11.9 second passes.
I wasn't there (I'm assuming that none of you were either) so I can't say if they're telling the truth or not but those 11.9s are being claimed as pure bone stock times.
See this is what I'm talking about some yes some say no yet the only way ANYONE has been able to run 11's is with dr's and that's why Im a little upset with GM and not so quick to believe them when they say they are able to beat a BOSS mustang on a road course by seconds not just tenths.

Looks like the 1LE is 4 seconds faster around VIR than the Boss 302 Laguna Seca edition. Pretty impressive IMO.

Looks like the 1LE is 4 seconds faster around VIR than the Boss 302 Laguna Seca edition. Pretty impressive IMO.

If more test continue to show these results it will be a good day for GM since the car has less power,more weight,a back seat and no MR. Also let's not forget the (10,000) difference in price looks like Chevy has tried hard to redeem itself.

If more test continue to show these results it will be a good day for GM since the car has less power,more weight,a back seat and no MR. Also let's not forget the (10,000) difference in price looks like Chevy has tried hard to redeem itself.

I really hope more tests yield similar results. It would make this thread look pretty stupid.

yet the only way ANYONE has been able to run 11's is with dr'sTrue, but it's also been very hot out as well, give it some time.
It will never stay with a 2013 GT500 in a straight line, that's a given...but we will see/hear about a bone stock ZL1 running in the high 11s before 2012 is over, maybe even in the 11.7s (but I'm not counting on that part). :nod:

True, but it's also been very hot out as well, give it some time.
It will never stay with a 2013 GT500 in a straight line, that's a given...but we will see/hear about a bone stock ZL1 running in the high 11s before 2012 is over, maybe even in the 11.7s (but I'm not counting on that part). :nod:

There was a company (can't remember what one) that ran 11.80's bone stock within a month of the ZL1's public release...there's videos of it somewhere.

CTS-V's have run 11.80's bone stock with smaller tires, less power, and less advanced suspension. I wouldn't be shocked to see 11.70's out of a bone stock ZL1 as more and more of them hit the road.

There was a company (can't remember what one) that ran 11.80's bone stock within a month of the ZL1's public release...there's videos of it somewhere.

CTS-V's have run 11.80's bone stock with smaller tires, less power, and less advanced suspension. I wouldn't be shocked to see 11.70's out of a bone stock ZL1 as more and more of them hit the road.

That's why we're scratching our heads at why the zl1 has been so fucking slow compared to its cousin regardless of the weather it should run atleast 11.90's in the heat and even faster when conditions are better. Don't get me wrong I love the zl1 and would buy it over a gt500 in a heart beat but nobody can explain its poor showing at the strip.

Does the ZL1 run the same auto gearbox as the CTS-V?

And on the 1LE lap time at VIR: that's damn impressive (provided it's legit ;)). If the 1LE equipped SS does indeed best the Boss 302 on the track then we have to just chaulk it up to the Mustang hitting its head on the ceiling as far as what can be done with the live axle. But there's no denying that Ford did a bang up job pushing that suspension technology to its absolute limit, and I view the current Boss 302 as the last true old school muscle/pony car.

Whatever anyone's disapproval of the direction either of these two cars (the current Mustang and Camaro) have taken, this generation of pony cars will go down in history as one of the best ever.

Does the ZL1 run the same auto gearbox as the CTS-V?

And on the 1LE lap time at VIR: that's damn impressive (provided it's legit ;)). If the 1LE equipped SS does indeed best the Boss 302 on the track then we have to just chaulk it up to the Mustang hitting its head on the ceiling as far as what can be done with the live axle. But there's no denying that Ford did a bang up job pushing that suspension technology to its absolute limit, and I view the current Boss 302 as the last true old school muscle/pony car.

Whatever anyone's disapproval of the direction either of these two cars (the current Mustang and Camaro) have taken, this generation of pony cars will go down in history as one of the best ever.

^^^^Yeah and for so long we heard stories about how great it was and that it would never be that good again then we hit the era of ls motors(97 and up) and super charged mod motors (03 and up) and its way better then those old guys talk about.:drive:

^^^^Yeah and for so long we heard stories about how great it was and that it would never be that good again then we hit the era of ls motors(97 and up) and super charged mod motors (03 and up) and its way better then those old guys talk about.:drive:

theres better days ahead too. :drive:

Does the ZL1 run the same auto gearbox as the CTS-V?

And on the 1LE lap time at VIR: that's damn impressive (provided it's legit ;)). If the 1LE equipped SS does indeed best the Boss 302 on the track then we have to just chaulk it up to the Mustang hitting its head on the ceiling as far as what can be done with the live axle. But there's no denying that Ford did a bang up job pushing that suspension technology to its absolute limit, and I view the current Boss 302 as the last true old school muscle/pony car.

Whatever anyone's disapproval of the direction either of these two cars (the current Mustang and Camaro) have taken, this generation of pony cars will go down in history as one of the best ever.

Amen!

Does the ZL1 run the same auto gearbox as the CTS-V?I believe it is the same (6L90) yes. :nod:

http://jalopnik.com/5931109/camaro-1le-around-the-block
No hard numbers but interesting none the less.

The way I look at the 1le pkg is that for the $3500 you get the wheels , shocks, the splitter,
The car pulls 1g But best of all gets 3.91 gears and better shafts, so it seems like a cool package. If I get 5th gen ill definately get the 1le, probably a 1ss but I'd like the HUD.

The way I look at the 1le pkg is that for the $3500 you get the wheels , shocks, the splitter,
The car pulls 1g But best of all gets 3.91 gears and better shafts, so it seems like a cool package. If I get 5th gen ill definately get the 1le, probably a 1ss but I'd like the HUD.

You left a couple out here you go-Larger, 27-mm solid front stabilizer bar, and 28-mm solid rear stabilizer bar for improved body control
Strut tower brace for improved steering feel and response
ZL1-based 20 x 10-inch front and 20 x 11-inch aluminum wheels
285/35ZR20 Goodyear Eagle Supercar G:2 tires front and rear (identical to the front tires for ZL1)
ZL1 wheel bearings, toe links and rear shock mounts for improved on-track performance
ZL1 high-capacity fuel pump and additional fuel pickups for improved fuel delivery during high-cornering
Visually, the 1LE package for 2013 is distinguished by its matte-black hood, front splitter and rear spoiler – as well as the 10-spoke ZL1-based wheels, which are finished in black. The functional front splitter and rear spoiler contribute to the car’s on-track performance by helping to reduce aerodynamic lift at high speeds.
Inside, the 1LE package incorporates the ZL1’s flat-bottom steering wheel, trimmed in sueded microfiber and designed for easier heel-and-toe driving on the racetrack. The quick-acting, short-throw shifter from the ZL1 is also trimmed in sueded microfiber.

Also the tranny itself has different ratios compared to a basic SS.

Even more reason that the $3500 price seems like a good deal to me over a "plain" ss plus it might not be faster, gm claims 113mph in the 1/4For both cars but I bet it will feel zipper with those new gears.

Even more reason that the $3500 price seems like a good deal to me over a "plain" ss plus it might not be faster, gm claims 113mph in the 1/4For both cars but I bet it will feel zipper with those new gears.I agree, the 1LE package is a pretty damn good value. :nod:

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/1209_2013_chevrolet_camaro_ss_1le_first_test/

Looks good to me but I still can't wait until they compare the 1le and the boss on the same day same driver. Would have been nice to see a few more Hp but for the price the parts they did add are well worth it.