Generation IV Internal Engine - N/A LSX whats it take to get 900-1000 hp

I just purchased a 2002 camaro pro mod car without engine. it came with a 3spd lenco automatic trans. My plan was to run a twin 88 setup but Iam kinda thinking about starting out N/A first to get friendly with the car before getting that much hp. So my question is whats it take? wouldnt be afraid of building a 9000 rpm engine like the SAM team did. It would be on alcohol. tell me if iam on track her or not. looking for 900hp and up.
RHS BLOCK 4.125 bore
DR or C5R heads
jesle rockers
13.5 14.1 comp
sheet metal intake.
solid roller cam.
jesle belt drive.
calis crank.
calis rods.

I would love to get some 400+ cfm heads like some all pros or somthin with a HUGE solid roller and a sheet metal intake on a big cubed motor:drool:

I just purchased a 2002 camaro pro mod car without engine. it came with a 3spd lenco automatic trans. My plan was to run a twin 88 setup but Iam kinda thinking about starting out N/A first to get friendly with the car before getting that much hp. So my question is whats it take? wouldnt be afraid of building a 9000 rpm engine like the SAM team did. It would be on alcohol. tell me if iam on track her or not. looking for 900hp and up.
RHS BLOCK 4.125 bore
DR or C5R heads
jesle rockers
13.5 14.1 comp
sheet metal intake.
solid roller cam.
jesle belt drive.
calis crank.
calis rods.

ERL block 4.185 bore
MOZEZ heads
Jesel or T&D system
15:1 compression
sheetmetal dual T/B intake
Solid roller
Callies Magnum XL
GRP alum rods

Would be my list for a max effort N/A setup

Is there anyone running a nitro-methane set-up on an LSx? That's the most combustible fuel I can think of to run.

I forgot about the mozez heads. So with all these parts and that high of comp on alcohol is it fairly easy to reach that 900 to 1100 hp?

Thats what Iam wondering. what kind of numbers could you see from that kind of a setup?

Hope you have deep pockets! What are you ultimately looking to do? Track numbers.

Why not just go turbo now?

^agreed, you're looking to dump a lot of money into that setup, just to change it out down the road

If your ultimate goal is to go Turbo, I would start with that set-up and tune it back until you got used to it. Otherwise your going to have to buy a lot of NA parts that won't be good for a turbo set-up. Big NA power likes low drag bearings, light weight internals, etc. while a turbo (especially Pro Mod) needs beef and plenty of it. I would set them up totally different.
BTW our turbo engines spin over 9K with the heavy components if that's what your looking for. Either way, it takes a very good oiling system to make it live at that RPM and nothing is cheap.
It would be fun to see one of these big Drag Radial turbo engines in a lightweight Pro Mod instead of pushing 3300- 3400 #'s into the low 7's. You can go deep into the 6's with the same power and the slicks would help enormously.
Sounds like a fun project. Post pics.

If your ultimate goal is to go Turbo, I would start with that set-up and tune it back until you got used to it. Otherwise your going to have to buy a lot of NA parts that won't be good for a turbo set-up. Big NA power likes low drag bearings, light weight internals, etc. while a turbo (especially Pro Mod) needs beef and plenty of it. I would set them up totally different.
BTW our turbo engines spin over 9K with the heavy components if that's what your looking for. Either way, it takes a very good oiling system to make it live at that RPM and nothing is cheap.
It would be fun to see one of these big Drag Radial turbo engines in a lightweight Pro Mod instead of pushing 3300- 3400 #'s into the low 7's. You can go deep into the 6's with the same power and the slicks would help enormously.
Sounds like a fun project. Post pics.


Exactly, look at Camaroandreas on here. He has been 6.74 on his monte carlo chassis and he's going bigger now so we should see low 6's in his future.

I got the rest of the summer,fall,winter,spring I guess to just go the turbo route and be done with it. I'am looking for track numbers in the mid to high 6's the car had a big block hemi in it and thats right where it ran before. We had fig the race weight to be around 2250lbs with driver. Thats alum race block with twin 88 turbos and of course all the pluming and cooler. It was around 2500lbs with the big block and blower.

Why don't you just build a turbo kit to go on the car and just throw a junk motor like an LQ4/9 or an LS2 and then build a nasty setup to go on the same kit.

You could probably get something like a TTi kit since you have all the room and run a big single turbo on a stock motor. Just to get it rolling and have fun. Then make the plans for the "KILLER" :kali: to go in.

If the car was set up for big block I''m not sure why you would want to change to an LS. If you are only looking for 900 NA you could just buy a crate engine and get it done with pump gas for less investment than with a LS based engine.

Are there many guys using LS based engines in Pro-Mod cars? With turbo cars being allowed 540 cubes it would seem hard to compete with a hemi headed big block.

I just purchased a 2002 camaro pro mod car without engine. it came with a 3spd lenco automatic trans. My plan was to run a twin 88 setup but Iam kinda thinking about starting out N/A first to get friendly with the car before getting that much hp. So my question is whats it take? wouldnt be afraid of building a 9000 rpm engine like the SAM team did. It would be on alcohol. tell me if iam on track her or not. looking for 900hp and up.
RHS BLOCK 4.125 bore
DR or C5R heads
jesle rockers
13.5 14.1 comp
sheet metal intake.
solid roller cam.
jesle belt drive.
calis crank.
calis rods.

Why spend $30,000 on a totally custom and exotic LSx engine....that may never even make 900 HP.....but WILL certainly be a ticking time bomb at that level. It won't be reliable at all.

Drop a BBC in there for LESS than half the price and make 1000 HP ""EASY"" on pump gas and be WAY WAY WAY more reliable than an LSx set up could ever be. The BBC would last for years and years. LSx will explode any day.

$13,500.....1000 HP
http://www.shafiroff.com/sportsman/598_lowdeck.asp

$19,950.....1145 HP
http://www.shafiroff.com/sportsman/615_1145.asp

BADASS......$17,975.....1,400 HP
http://www.shafiroff.com/nos/565_1400.asp


.

The amount of work you will have to put into an lsx engine to spin twin 88's would be far more than building a bbc. Imo I would build a 500 inch bbc tt with a set of profiler 174x heads and you could run mid 6's and never hurt the thing.

Big Blocks are the Shizznit.. 500ci and 10lbs of boost will get you in the 1200hp range..598ci and 24lbs of boost will get you in the 2600hp range..:drive:

big blocks!:guns:

Check out Nelson Race Engines. They build high end TT LSX stuff that put down 1500 to 2500 hp, depending on the fuel you want to run. They have built many nitromethane LSX engines. Gonna cost you $30k plus!

Look at Sonny's Racing Engines for some rather interesting BBC ideas. Their SAR 1005, with 2,150 na horsepower is pretty much unbelievable. They list a 903 inch engine with 2700 hp (with nitrous) set up for Pro-Mod as well. Not cheap at $90K+ but this is not a cheap class to be competing in.

LOL! I'am on LS1TECH and everyone is saying BBC BBC BBC. WTF? I'am shocked to say the least! All the drag racing around here and every where is that BBC. I want to be different and not old school so I decided long ago that it would be a LSX 427 TWIN 88'S and thats what I'am sticking with. Yes I understand that the BBC route would be cheaper but not as light or as boring. I realize the cost but come on guys this is not BBCTECH.COM Its ls1tech. One of my best friends has been racing for 25 years and he is bbc to his death he would be getting a kick out of everyone saying bbc if he seen this.

Your making sense but I guess I dont have to run it in the pro mod class. So to get a 2200lb car into the 6's should take around 1400 hp.So lets say I ran it in the super pro class, would that be that hard to make a lsx engine with twins make that hp and still live for a while?

Did you guys ever see the article where GM high tech made 1200hp out of a bone stock 4.8 liter? the goal was to put as much boost as they could till it blew to see what it would handle. they never blew it, and they ended up dping 60 dyno pulls at 26psi (maxing out the turbo) to try to get to blow and it never did. These engines are capable if alot more than you think they are and can be reliable, he also does not need 9000rpms to make 1000hp, and plenty lf lsx blocks see 2500hp boosted. its not that a lsx motor cannot be built to handle that kind of power, but I do agree with what alot everyone says. a LSx cant really get to far past 500 cubes unless you use a superdeck kit. so it would be like running a v6 or 4 banger in a class full of V8s, everyone is ganna start out with a bigger motor than you. A engine is just a big air pump the more air you move threw it the more power it makes, so you are handicapped from the beginning. If you are just building a fun car and not looking to win money or things like that then build what you want the car to be and have fun. but if you want to win then there is a reason everyone in the class uses the same style motors.

1400hp from the LS platform is no problem and can be very reliable. It is not as simple as working with the BBC or the Pro Mod hemi engines, but 1400hp is very realistic. Do what you like and have fun doing it! Some will say smart people would not race at all, but I like it.

Kurt

Check out Nelson Race Engines. They build high end TT LSX stuff that put down 1500 to 2500 hp, depending on the fuel you want to run. They have built many nitromethane LSX engines. Gonna cost you $30k plus!

LOL where did you see a LSx on Nitro? You must know of a different NRE necause the NRE I know of has never done any nitro engines. You dont need nitro to make 2500hp. And its definitely something you would never want to run in a street car.

Anyway, Hutter Racing has the fastest N/A LSx in the world and its definitely making over 1000hp. Give them a call:

http://www.hutterperformance.com/

Also, check this thread out:

http://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamometer-results-comparisons/1541760-top-10-rwhp-per-cubic-inch-na.html

1000hp N/A LSx is definitely possible however it aint real cheap. And will take a helluva tuner.

Check out Nelson Race Engines. They build high end TT LSX stuff that put down 1500 to 2500 hp, depending on the fuel you want to run. They have built many nitromethane LSX engines. Gonna cost you $30k plus!

Tom Nelson quoted me $55,000 out the door for the 454ci TT (2,300 HP version) installed in my 1998 Trans Am...retaining A/C. Mini tub rear end and a 4L80E.

Very good price for what you get....which is the best TT set up anyone can possibly build. NRE is the BEST............when it comes to turbos.

And thats on race gas, not nitro. NRE doesn't do nitro stuff. Pump gas and race gas. That 454 TT uses his 16 injector intake. 8 injectors spraying pump gas for casual driving out of boost, then the other 8 injectors kick in and spray race gas from a stand alone tank when boost rises above 3psi. Very cool.

.

LOL! I'am on LS1TECH and everyone is saying BBC BBC BBC. WTF? I'am shocked to say the least! All the drag racing around here and every where is that BBC. I want to be different and not old school so I decided long ago that it would be a LSX 427 TWIN 88'S and thats what I'am sticking with. Yes I understand that the BBC route would be cheaper but not as light or as boring. I realize the cost but come on guys this is not BBCTECH.COM Its ls1tech. One of my best friends has been racing for 25 years and he is bbc to his death he would be getting a kick out of everyone saying bbc if he seen this.

You're right....but its gonna suck to spend $40,000 on what you want out of a TT LSx set-up to run with the big boys.......than to just have it blow up after as few runs or need a rebuild...When the guy next to you is beating you with a N/A BBC that costs $20,000.

Just sayin.......

.

Tom Nelson quoted me $55,000 out the door for the 454ci TT (2,300 HP version) installed in my 1998 Trans Am...retaining A/C. Mini tub rear end and a 4L80E.

Very good price for what you get....which is the best TT set up anyone can possibly build. NRE is the BEST............when it comes to turbos.

And thats on race gas, not nitro. NRE doesn't do nitro stuff. Pump gas and race gas. That 454 TT uses his 16 injector intake. 8 injectors spraying pump gas for casual driving out of boost, then the other 8 injectors kick in and spray race gas from a stand alone tank when boost rises above 3psi. Very cool.

.

Sorry guys! Been 18 months since I talked to them, and I got my fuels mixed up. Mis-info on my part. My bad. But yes, very cool stuff! They have been in the turbo business a long time.:buttkick:

GM LSX Iron block 4.125 bore
Diamond 10.5:1 pistons
Callies or Bryant crank 4.0 stroke
GRP aluminum rods
RFD Edelbrock "cannonball" heads
Custom cam from me@tick;)
Twin GT5518's or the new pro mod 88's from Garrett or Bullseye power

Keep the lenco 3 speed

Stay away from places like Shafiroff I have heard HORROR stories from them.

But a 525 BBC with twin GT4788's(smaller than the GT5518's I mentioned above) has gone 4.50's@168mph with low 1.20 60' and it spools instantly and the control over the boost is amazing!

all i see is money money money lol but i x10 on the big block twin 88 idea best bang for your buck

I got the rest of the summer,fall,winter,spring I guess to just go the turbo route and be done with it. I'am looking for track numbers in the mid to high 6's the car had a big block hemi in it and thats right where it ran before. We had fig the race weight to be around 2250lbs with driver. Thats alum race block with twin 88 turbos and of course all the pluming and cooler. It was around 2500lbs with the big block and blower.

Pm sent.

I know you don't want to hear it, but I bought a roller car as well that was set up for a BBC. I put a SBC in it because I had it on hand. If I had know how much a pain it would be to get it to work I would have probably just built the BBC instead. Everything from having to fab new headers, new motor plates, and other items that just ate away at my time. Really it is best to set those cars up with what came in them. You'll also have to build spacers for the motor plate if you are running anything but at BBC.

Either way it is a cool car that looks pretty clean. Looks like a lot of quality parts from what I can see. Those Weld Racing double beadlock rears are freaking expensive. The Lenco is too.