View Full Version : Solid Subframe Mounts!!! Check this Out!!!


jrane
07-25-2012, 09:50 PM
So I know some of you guys on here are always looking for Sub Frame mounts. Well Iím going to be making some solid Sub Frame mounts for the 06/07 Sub Frame here soon. Since these rubber mounts are crap, and are a huge contributor to the wheel hop issues that the Vís have.

If you any of you are interested and want to do a group buy I can probably get the price down around $200-250 for a set. Before I get a batch made though I want to gauge, and see how many of you are interested in this. If I can get at least 5 people who want to try these out I'll make a batch here in about a week or two, and get a final price nailed down if anyone is interested. If this proves to be something that works well I'll start making more and selling these.

NeverSatisfied02
07-25-2012, 10:44 PM
I would be interested. I think this might be why i feel the ass end wiggle around like its washing out on hard turns. And no... Its not my tires or imagination. Something back there is letting the car get kinda wishy washy when i push it in the turns.... Primarily right hand turns when the ass is being pushed left...

BudRacing
07-25-2012, 10:45 PM
Didn't you have that issue with your last V?

NeverSatisfied02
07-25-2012, 10:49 PM
Didn't you have that issue with your last V?

Yeah. On the last car I thought it could have been caused by the cut springs but on this one, the suspension is all still stock at this point and it does it too. Something back there is allowing things to move around a little. Im assuming bad bushings somewhere or something. I really dont know. The car feels planted at all times other than on hard right turns. I get that wishy washy feeling where it feels like its washing out in the rear but catches and does it again and again until i get out of the turn. Feels like the tire rolling on the rim but its not. I really have no clue what it is.

BudRacing
07-25-2012, 10:53 PM
I'd suspect trailing arm bushings before subframe.

BudRacing
07-25-2012, 10:55 PM
Back on topic: I'd be a little afraid of the amount of harshness added with solid mounts.

NeverSatisfied02
07-25-2012, 10:56 PM
I'd suspect trailing arm bushings before subframe.

Well then ill wait until i install my ground control kit with MM spacers, MAP trailing arms, etc before i look into anything else. Might fix the problem with the new MAP arms.

Skidmarcx
07-25-2012, 11:03 PM
Back on topic: I'd be a little afraid of the amount of harshness added with solid mounts.

I'm curious myself as to the risk involved... at what point do you start ripping shit apart because of too much rigidity?

Cadzilla
07-25-2012, 11:25 PM
I think it would be too firm.

I did a combination of filling the voids on mine with 65a rubber and adding the diy washers on top and bottom. It was firm as hell.. I did it for handling improvement, not wheel hop. Definitely worked for both of those but it was way too firm for the rest of the drivetrain and clunking bad so I ended up taking out one of my washer layers and it's nice now.

I thought my diff bushing was shot but it looked brand new. I realized the cradle needs to flex a bit to subdue the diff slack and create a smoother shift.

I did get a cs bushing and block but ended up only installing the block.

My trailing arm bushings are shot. I plan on picking up some of the turn in concepts bushings soon.

furbe
07-26-2012, 12:48 AM
What did they do on the factory race cars? Did they tie the cradle in with the cage?
What is junior doing on his build?

jmargo
07-26-2012, 12:51 AM
We need a vendor to make Poly bushings for the rear carrier. Solid would be too harsh

tommycompton
07-26-2012, 02:54 PM
Down for poly. Not sure on solid either, Max at CS said he was making some poly but that has to be over a year ago I heard anything.

Skidmarcx
07-26-2012, 04:44 PM
When I ordered my 8.8 kit in May he said he was in the testing stage with these bushings

jrane
07-26-2012, 09:06 PM
I agree that for a daily it will be a little rough. This was more in mind for the road race and big HP guys because we took a go pro vid before I tore my V all apart again and the flex under acceleration was really bad, and my mounts were still in good shape.

Poly mounts though I think will not much softer or smoother than solid because everytime i've switched between poly and solid mounts I can barely tell a difference if any.

I wont be able to test it out though for at least another month :( I just sent my ls3 of to be stroked, forged, and low comp pistons. I'm gonna though here in a week or so start on the mounts so if anyone is seriously interested PM me.

shadyLS6
07-26-2012, 10:44 PM
specter works inserts achieve the same outcome.. well at least for ls6 cars. reduced my wheel hop in the rain significantly on the oem diff.. just lube the snot out of them

tommycompton
07-27-2012, 11:04 AM
I may still be in for solid if you review them once you got them in, or if someone else does.

Cadzilla
07-27-2012, 11:31 AM
Poly mounts though I think will not much softer or smoother than solid because everytime i've switched between poly and solid mounts I can barely tell a difference if any.

.
I can see this being the case.. My mod was a bit ghettto but it worked well. It was very solid yet forgiving on nvh because I sandwiched rubber in there and gave it all nowhere to go with the washers, so there was never true contact between the frame and cradle other than the bolt housing of course.

The bushings I've seen, especially those terrible oem ones, just fused more surface area together without firming the stock bushing void itself. For example, the side height of the bushing seemed to prevent the compression itself, depending on how firm they are...

Once I took it apart it all made sense. I'll post some pics later if anyone is interested

shadyLS6
07-27-2012, 11:53 AM
The bushings I've seen, especially those terrible oem ones, just fused more surface area together without firming the stock bushing void itself. For example, the side height of the bushing seemed to prevent the compression itself, depending on how firm they are...

Once I took it apart it all made sense. I'll post some pics later if anyone is interested

i know exactly what your talking about.. oem TSB bushings are pointless.. white ones
https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/24819_642378680920_62803_n.jpg

the SW bushings def add noise but work.. what's different about your setup other then filling the voids with poly instead of an insert.. post some pics if you get a chance

ichpen
07-27-2012, 04:39 PM
Back on topic: I'd be a little afraid of the amount of harshness added with solid mounts.

Been running my sort of half solid cradle bushing helpers for 2 years. Basically 2 thick (close to an inch) washers on top and bottom with some rubber in the middle.

No nice way of putting it but by far the largest contributor of noise and harshness BUT they do tighten up the handling tremendously in my opinion. No real change in hop. They are LOUD. Really they are. I almost decided to remove them at one point but too much hassle as I had to cut the stock rubber ones quite a bit.

So I can only imagine what solid ones will be like. :eek2:

heavymetals
07-27-2012, 06:17 PM
That is what one should expect when you take the comfy cushy stock suspension and turn it into a hot rod/go-cart.

Just replacing the rear strut supports with sphericals (no rubber) tightened the feel up.

Cadzilla
07-29-2012, 03:46 AM
i know exactly what your talking about.. oem TSB bushings are pointless.. white ones

the SW bushings def add noise but work.. what's different about your setup other then filling the voids with poly instead of an insert.. post some pics if you get a chance

not much different really, the concept remains the same..but I think the 'softer' urethane might transmit less noise while accomplishing the same thing as the bushings...le. I just extended the shape of the existing bushing and sandwiched it down inside the housing. The washers I used don't contact the center bolt housing so vibration is kept to a minimum.

I did this about a month or 2 ago.. first I cut the small lip off the existing bushing to create a nice flat surface. for you all that have never messed with these, that cylindrical part of the middle of the bushing is tubular metal and houses a long bolt inserted in the bottom that holds the cradle against the frame. The cradle rocks around and the only thing that prevents lateral tilt is the rubber seen here..
http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y332/memphisctsv/cts-v/IMG_0009.jpg

http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y332/memphisctsv/cts-v/IMG_0032.jpg

then I cut some templates out of cardboard to match the existing bushing's shape and height, keeping surface contact to a minimum like they intended, but filling the void.
http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y332/memphisctsv/cts-v/IMG_0054.jpg

http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y332/memphisctsv/cts-v/IMG_0051.jpg

http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y332/memphisctsv/cts-v/IMG_0060.jpg

http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y332/memphisctsv/cts-v/IMG_0057-2.jpg



then shot the holes full, put one of the washers in there, and tightened it up just enough to hold the stuff in, let it sit overnight. (these pics show the rough result after removing the templates the next day). I then used a metal file to shave it down to the right uniform height (not shown here)

http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y332/memphisctsv/cts-v/IMG_0221.jpg

http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y332/memphisctsv/cts-v/IMG_0212.jpg

added the washers to the top and bottom (I started out with two on top and bottom. It was way too firm. I took one of them out and it was just right).
http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y332/memphisctsv/cts-v/IMG_0229.jpg

http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y332/memphisctsv/cts-v/IMG_0265.jpg

http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y332/memphisctsv/cts-v/IMG_0243.jpg


I ended up with basically a bushing like stock but filling the entire housing, which is sandwiched just enough to prevent the wiggling rear and firm up the cradle in turns. It has done that nicely...

I haven't tested it for wheelhop because there's no point. I don't have axles or anything and I don't feel like beating on the diff...but it has eliminated the slight skipping I would get on turning starts and in the wet. I can also putt along in a parking lot in 1st without throttle and it's not herky jerky. The shutdown is also alot smoother than before. It's crazy how this whole drivetrain is tied together by cushy parts and when you tighten up one section, all the other parts start taking on a much bigger load.

When I first did this I was so addicted to the firmer pedal I thought I had trashed my diff bushing because it was clunking. The bushing ended up being fine (10k miles).

http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y332/memphisctsv/IMAG5309.jpg
So I added just the diff block and did the carrier bearing donut fill...

http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y332/memphisctsv/IMAG5311.jpg

http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y332/memphisctsv/IMAG5331.jpg

It's pretty damn firm now...but not too rigid. Lots of play and stress was transferred forward to the clutch and motor mounts. I confirmed just today that I've destroyed a motor mount. not sure which one yet but I can get in first and make the whole engine thump up and down...

jmargo
08-03-2012, 12:35 PM
Whats the 3M part number on the stuff you used ? This may work with the trans mount.

Cadzilla
08-03-2012, 01:20 PM
Not sure, I threw out the container. They sell it at autozone $25 a tube. Just make sure the expiration date printed on the container is in the future or it might be bad.

I used it to fill the void in my trans mount too..

jmargo
08-03-2012, 02:04 PM
Not sure, I threw out the container. They sell it at autozone $25 a tube. Just make sure the expiration date printed on the container is in the future or it might be bad.

I used it to fill the void in my trans mount too..

I take it the results were favorable ?

edit: Found it...3M 08609

Cadzilla
08-10-2012, 11:56 PM
I can't say, I did it while the car was on jackstands for 5 months. I had the trans and clutch out, so I couldn't really tell.. I know it raised it back up a bit just by looking at it visually.. I figured it couldn't hurt. I only filled the center part of the mount.

I'd also recommend doing it when you can let it cure for a few days before installing

jrane
08-11-2012, 04:10 AM
**Update** So I finally got started I got the bushings pulled out, and have the measurements to start making the billet inserts. While im doing this im swaping in a ford 8.8 rear with the brackets from C.S. The project though has kind of become a back burner because I've got real busy but I'll keep you updated with progress.